At the standard prices? Extremely rarely. It's very obvious that this is what's happening. The PC's are getting price gouged, pure and simple.
Comparing spellcasting prices against an equivalent WBL demonstrates this clearly. For instance, a 9th level NPC wizard has a WBL of 10500 GP. Even presuming a generalist with 15 intelligence and discounting cantrips, the combined value of all his spell slots is 3330 per day. If WBL is to hold up at all, then the vast majority of these spell slots must be sold at lower prices or not at all.
It's extremely rare for any of my PCs to purchase spellcasting services.
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Kiiyan,
That's a new one---I've seen it used as a frequent precast by higher level clerics, but I've never had a PC think to offer to buy one. List on one is 660 GP---6 players I presume? d8+5 temporary hit points, +1 morale to attack rolls and will saves, and +4 morale to poison and fear.
What level characters are typically buying this? And do they ever manage to sell any of the other 5 seats at the feast (assuming level 11 caster?)
Yes it was 6 players so split 6 ways for 110gp. This was around level 6 that I started seeing it. It is not vastly popular, but I know some other people have seen it and have been interested in doing it themselves.
Dasrak,
I'm inclined to agree, but I'd like to solicit more folks' experiences. Were guilds to enforce price floors vigorously (the only decent explanation for going full RAW IMO), I'm curious as to what demand level would remain.
Trouble with using the experiences of PC's is that they are not at all representative of the typical denizens of the world. The vast majority of parties will have someone capable of basic spellcasting (even if it's just a bard), which can often make ends meet. Furthermore, PC's have plot armor of a sorts, and virtually never have to worry about facing an overwhelmingly powerful foe (like APL+8 or higher). NPC's don't have those assurances, and it will fundamentally change their behavior and how they respond to risks.
Again, I really agree with you that these prices make zero sense from a market forces perspective. However, I don't think the experiences of PC's are the right ones to peg down those market forces.
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Rez, permanent condition removal, teleportation (if the party lacks access to any of these). Usually at a discount.
2 party members with umd? No need. Unless something goes horribly horribly wrong.
Never seen it happen in my times, not as a DM nor as a player.
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Usually it's raise dead, ressurection, restoration (all of them), teleport, all of the removes, break echantment, true form, very very rarely healing. Those are what i can think off the top of my head.
Full Restoration is my players favorite.
None of my players have ever thought of buying a buff, just dealing with Solutions to problems.
What would buying a Wish cost? And what would you buy with it?
Speak with dead (to ask a dead pc if he wants to be raised) and raise dead.
Other than that we bought a scroll on mending ~CL 9 once to repair a broken magic weapon. That could have been done via spellcasting service, as well.
In 15 years of playing, I never have heard of anyone ever doing that.
Remove Curse is the big one for us. Extra frustrating is that it's not a guaranteed success.
If you buy a wand, you are purchasing spellcasting services. After all, you can't make a wand without the spell.
So I'd say we make use of it occasionally.
Actually, I take back my previous statement. The players hired a Cleric to cast Raise Dead on a dead companion once in Kingmaker.
Generally I've only seen low level characters purchase spells from a cleric that the group themselves cannot yet cast. Generally resurrection, reincarnation, raise dead, restoration magic, and similar things. It's too expensive for anything else and PCs would rather save their money for more lasting bonuses. They're only willing to pay when the penalty is something that they can't "live with".
There ain't much to live with when you're dead ;D
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A wand of reincarnate would be great at parties. A guillotine and a wand of Reincarnate will have people rolling in the aisles.
CHOP, BAM! You're an elf. CHOP, BAM you're a bugbear!
I had a group of brand-new level 1 (mostly pregen) characters that only survived The Cyphermage Dilemma when I pointed out that they were in a large city, and could buy cure light wounds spells at the temples in between battles. Other than that, it's mostly just clearing conditions after the big fight.
But keep in mind that a spellcasting service is actually cheaper than a charge from a wand. (Spell level x caster level x 10, rather than x15)
But keep in mind that a spellcasting service is actually cheaper than a charge from a wand. (Spell level x caster level x 10, rather than x15)
This. Spellcasting services are the cheapest way to buy a spell.
So if there's a spell you don't have but need cast, which can be done in downtime, and you have access to the appropriate type of caster this is the way to go. Usually works better for urban settings.
Peet
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At the standard prices? Extremely rarely. It's very obvious that this is what's happening. The PC's are getting price gouged, pure and simple.
Comparing spellcasting prices against an equivalent WBL demonstrates this clearly. For instance, a 9th level NPC wizard has a WBL of 10500 GP. Even presuming a generalist with 15 intelligence and discounting cantrips, the combined value of all his spell slots is 3330 per day. If WBL is to hold up at all, then the vast majority of these spell slots must be sold at lower prices or not at all.
You are forgetting that the wizard has to memorize the spells and he can offer only what he has memorized today. You need a Armor spell? He has memorized Floating disk for some heavy hauling. Return tomorrow.
So the wizard has to memorize the spell he need to survive if danger come calling (some defence, some offense and a way to flee) and a large array of variable spells to cover his customers needs.He will be lucky to sell 1 spelle very day.
It is like a hardware store: you need a large assortment of nails, screws and bolts but most of the time you will sell only the more used kinds. Your stock value is way higher of what you make in a day or even a month of work.
Generally I've only seen low level characters purchase spells from a cleric that the group themselves cannot yet cast. Generally resurrection, reincarnation, raise dead, restoration magic, and similar things. It's too expensive for anything else and PCs would rather save their money for more lasting bonuses. They're only willing to pay when the penalty is something that they can't "live with".
A group of PC generally buy what they can't cast. And a group of PC generally can cast a good selection of spells.
A decent option can be to buy some goodberry from a druid with some level under his belt.
With an average roll he will produce 5 goodberry. That is food for 5 days for a person or animal. 2 gp/caster level for 1 day of rations plus 1 hp. Let's say 6 gp/berry to have it last 3 days.
The cost fo 1 hp of healing by a wand is (on average) 2.72 gp, but you can often cure more hp than the target needs, so there is no guarantee that you will get the full benefit of the wand use.
The cost of the trail rations is 0.5 gp/day.
So a single goodberry would cost 6 gp but do the equivalent worh of a 2.72 gp healing from a wand and of a 0.5 gp trail ration and weight almost nothing.
It can be worth stocking a few of those.
Only when the spell is above what I can cast or when I am paying a fellow wizard to let me copy spells from his spellbook.
You are forgetting that the wizard has to memorize the spells and he can offer only what he has memorized today. You need a Armor spell? He has memorized Floating disk for some heavy hauling. Return tomorrow.
So the wizard has to memorize the spell he need to survive if danger come calling (some defence, some offense and a way to flee) and a large array of variable spells to cover his customers needs.
He will be lucky to sell 1 spelle very day.
And you are forgetting that a wizard doesn't have to memorize all his spell slots at one time.
So at the beginning of the day, the wizard memorizes half his slots with a few offensive, defensive, and utility spells; and leaves half his slots open. When a customer comes calling, as long as the spell needed is in his spellbook, a 15 minute wait will get you the spell you need.
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You are forgetting that the wizard has to memorize the spells and he can offer only what he has memorized today. You need a Armor spell? He has memorized Floating disk for some heavy hauling. Return tomorrow.
So the wizard has to memorize the spell he need to survive if danger come calling (some defence, some offense and a way to flee) and a large array of variable spells to cover his customers needs.
He will be lucky to sell 1 spelle very day.
And you are forgetting that a wizard doesn't have to memorize all his spell slots at one time.
So at the beginning of the day, the wizard memorizes half his slots with a few offensive, defensive, and utility spells; and leaves half his slots open. When a customer comes calling, as long as the spell needed is in his spellbook, a 15 minute wait will get you the spell you need.
He will still be unable to use his full array of day spells for the custumers requests. Dasrak argument was: "For instance, a 9th level NPC wizard has a WBL of 10500 GP. Even presuming a generalist with 15 intelligence and discounting cantrips, the combined value of all his spell slots is 3330 per day."
You don't get to sell a 5th leve spelle very day. People wanting to be teleported to a destination you know isn't so common.
Especially when you factor the 2% chance of getting off target even when teleporting to a very familiar area.
Overshooting Magnimar put you over the ocean. Plenty of rivers, vulcanoes, ravines and other unpleasant location where you can find yourself when you roll that 98-99.
Fabricate? You need the craft skill and the raw material.
A NPC can make a lot of money this way, but it is not on the tune of 3,000 gp every day.
So far people only buy spellcasting when they are too low level to do it themselves.
I'm running The Dragon's Demand and two people walked through the Wall of Light. 150 gp a pop to get the permanent blindness removed.
Beyond that nothing really happened spellcasting wise.
Luckily the Clerics at the temple of Abadar had a wand with JUST enough charges to cover the two characters.
It depends on the casters in the party, but I suppose Restoration tops the list.
Yes, restoration and since the 1 hp cantrip heal is no more, we use healing a bit. I'd say we spend 5%-10% on spellcasting services to repair ability damage, cure sicknesses, and occasionally buff. It's like visiting the doctor, except you always get well.
I've had a Druid pay for a Permanency Spell in conjunction with Magic Fang for his Animal Companion.
In our last game session, my players have to rush to a cleric for a remove disease after the wizard caught one. DC 16, 1d6 Str damage 1/day. Their lv 3.
A Wizard should know better than to visit brothels!
Are you insinuating that those with great power learn from their mistakes?
In the game I currently run, buying reincarnation has become somewhat of a thing lately.
A player of mine in a solo found as part of a lair treasure, a scroll of reincarnate. He searched magnimar for over six days to find a sorcerer capable of making it a contingencies spell on him for 950 gp . He traded a mythic dagger to prepurchase 12502 gp worth of spellcasting from this sorcerer and his twin brother. After reincarnate things went terribly south and being at a loss as what to do I had Abadar manifest his light in a nearby grove where the PC found a half buried but pristine lockbox that opened at his touch and inside was contained a scroll of miracle. Back to the sorcerers for some UMD love! Charged 1350gp for the sorc to umd the divine scroll and reverse the reincarnate. So the Bugbear monk is back to being a Goblin monk, lol with a 9-10000gp spellcasting account.
In my home game they've only bought restoration. In a bygone age (a few campaigns ago) I had a party who actively employed a cleric to accompany them. She followed a sort of dark goddess and was also a... ahem... companion. She'd remain in camp and provide "special healing sessions" involving her spells and skills together. They employed Ozula for a couple sessions since they didn't have any healing and she also doubled as the keeper of base camps.
In our group, I've seen a fair amount of condition removal, divination (particularly speak with dead and blood biography), and permanency spells being bought.
Nothing quite like having a permanent symbol of stunning painted on your shield and covered up with cloth wrappings until the big battle.
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In 20+ years of playing and as a GM, I've never had people "buy" spellcasting at book prices. Usually because the PCs are almost always the most powerful spellcasters in the area who aren't evil villains.
I have seen parties occasionally seek out a friendly caster for help with this and that, but usually this happens as part of a quest or in return for a favor. Once in a while getting a couple of heals from a low-level cleric and then offering a donation in gratitude.
In our group, I've seen a fair amount of condition removal, divination (particularly speak with dead and blood biography), and permanency spells being bought.
Nothing quite like having a permanent symbol of stunning painted on your shield and covered up with cloth wrappings until the big battle.
Could you do the same with explosive runes?
Only if you wanted to get hurt.
Never.
Cure Disease, Remove Curse, Raise Dead, end of list.
I'd love it if characters got into visiting an oracle and asking for advice periodically. It's never happened. Guess I should stop sitting there wishing and drop some hints.
Players are all about independence. The game reinforces this giving most builds some way to both attack and defend. This mentality translates to making purchases as well. Who wants to seek out a magic source for hire every time they need spells cast on them? Better to get wands, potions, and other magic items to do the work for you. Better still to have 2 of the 4 people in the party be spell-slingers and the other 2 to have UMD pumped up.
I haven't had many campaigns recently get up higher than 5th level, so no one's buying huge magic devices. However I have a couple players who are great at resource management and know exactly how to use consumables. For these 2 guys their first thing to do when coming into a new settlement is to locate the local church and then ask around for spellcasting crafters in the area.
They are usually walking potion vending machines. "Let's see: I've got...magic weapon...mage armor...divine favor...Jump? How'd THAT get in there?" As we get up there in level in the current game I'm sure I'll start seeing wands flying around as well. I don't think these guys would ever pay to have single spells cast on them/their gear unless there was a very specific reason like death or dismemberment.