KBrewer |
21 people marked this as a favorite. |
I've written a guide to a different style of Cleric that I haven't seen covered before: A Reach Cleric.
Suggestions and Improvements are welcome; I'm hoping it can get added to the "Guide to the Guides".
The Guide: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5kvBvq2DEHjRWctNG05X0JINm8
Set |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Good stuff!
That Divine Interference feat was a real eye-opener. I hadn't noticed that one before!
Erastil, with the Plant (Growth, for the swift Enlarge self) and Animal (Fur, for the swift movement bonus / vision buff) might work well for this sort of build, and with Favored Weapon longbow, might even be able to whip out a bow for those encounters where he can't close to within longspear reach.
The reach cleric looks like it would synergize well with spells like command (flee, drop or fall), cause fear or burning disarm, since causing a foe to flee, or forcing it to have to stand up or attempt to retrieve a dropped weapon will all provoke an AoO.
KBrewer |
Thanks for all the support! I'm glad it's useful and people are getting something out of it.
Set - the problem with those spells is they're low-level save-or-sucks... not the forte of a Reach Cleric. Maybe in the early levels, but it probably wouldn't be very long before hitting a DC=13 Will Save would be too easy.
jlord - I would probably say "no", mostly because most caster clerics usually have low physical stats to support a high wisdom (though I have no idea how your build looks.) Maybe your GM would let you tweak your character to adjust stats and swap out a few feats for Power Attack and Combat Reflexes.
Just a word of warning, though - you might run into tactical obstacles when trying to both heal during battle and still get attacks of opportunity. You'll probably have to put more thought and planning on how you maneuver in battle - and work with your intended heal target (especially if they're another caster.)
Bodhizen |
KBrewer: This Guide is quite well put together. I haven't taken the time to review it in depth at present, but I might recommend attempting to make the guide more visually pleasing (perhaps with pictures). Formatting is key so that you're not reading nothing but blocks of text, which can make the eyes a bit weary. You're off to a very good start, though.
I would also recommend making a more in depth analysis of races; you've generally covered the basics, but many of the nonstandard races would work out quite well for this Cleric build.
Atarlost |
Looks pretty reasonable, but a couple things.
You have a copypasta error. The Iomedae section is headed Caiden Caylean (Iomedae) instead of Iomedae (Lawful Good) and hasn't been written yet. I'm assuming you'll get to the latter in good time, but the former looks funny
You note the implications of the size penalty to dex under Righteous Might but not when talking about Enlarge Person as a domain spell.
I'd probably use Heighten Spell instead of Echoing spell for my third metamagic if going for Spell Perfection because it also opens the door for Preferred Spell, which will get you around the fifth level spell slot crunch created by the need to prepare Breath of Life.
SmiloDan RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
KBrewer |
KBrewer: This Guide is quite well put together. I haven't taken the time to review it in depth at present, but I might recommend attempting to make the guide more visually pleasing (perhaps with pictures). Formatting is key so that you're not reading nothing but blocks of text, which can make the eyes a bit weary. You're off to a very good start, though.
I would also recommend making a more in depth analysis of races; you've generally covered the basics, but many of the nonstandard races would work out quite well for this Cleric build.
Finally... finished spicing up the guide with some pictures.
Will be going over it the next few days with the additions people are requesting: races, alternative reach weapons, Big Game Hunter feat, etc.
SmiloDan RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
Blueluck |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I've been playing Kingmaker with a friend who's playing an Oracle. He was having the exact problem you discuss - use my standard action for a sub-par melee attack or a sub-par spell? I suggested that he dump his mace/shield style and pick up a longspear, and it worked out well.
Eventually he picked up Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Fauchard and Improved Trip. Tripping goes well with reach weapons and AoO:)
Luna_Silvertear |
Whips can attack 15ft away, but don't threaten that far, so they're no good for this. Whips are more like a blend between ranged weapons (only attack during your turn, provoke AoO as if a ranged weapon) with melee weapon (reach anywhere within 15ft, maneuvers).
So it doesn't work with whips.
So...polearms...Hmm...most ridiculous polearm available...
SmiloDan RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
stuart haffenden |
I think half-elves can trade out Skill Focus for a Martial Weapon Proficiency. That might be interesting. Then the Boots of Elvenkind make some sense fluff-wise, and you get another +2 to Perception.
Yes, they are soo tempting but ma,n is this build feat starved or what, Oh the pain!
stuart haffenden |
Separatist only works for games where you are absolutely required to have a deity. Otherwise just pick two and roll with it.
Yeah but that doesn't really work out with Sacred Summons. The whole point of Sacred Summons is to be dedicated and bound to a Deity.
I must say I'm not a fan of the "I'll just cherry pick 2 domains and follow an idea" concept. I wouldn't allow it and certainly wouldn't allow it with Sacred Summons, YMMV.
SmiloDan RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
Gauss |
4 people marked this as a favorite. |
I have been using longspears on clerics for quite awhile now. It fits them perfectly. Add in Combat Reflexes and Bodyguard and not only can you fight, but you can prevent damage to your allies as an AoO.
If you really want to up the AC your allies get then take the Social Trait: Adopted to gain the Halfling Race Trait: Helpful. Then add the armor property Benevolent to your armor. Up to +9AC when using Aid Another.
- Gauss
Eric Mason 37 |
As Set mentioned, Erastil seems like a good god to consider with the Growth domain.
This might be a build where Irori doesn't suck completely. The Strength domain is available, and Improved Unarmed Strike for those times when you want to kick the person adjacent to you while keeping your spear threatening out at reach.
SmiloDan RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
Gauss |
SmiloDan: UE p115 Benevolent Armor property for +2000gp. The Benevolent Weapon property is more expensive at +1 and affects attack rolls while the armor property affects AC.
Yes, Bodyguard only works with adjacent allies. That is not a problem. Stand behind the fighter with your longspear, use Bodyguard and attack through him (yes, soft cover applies).
Alternately, if the target is large stand just to the left (or right) and behind him and you wont be attacking through soft cover.
- Gauss
Gauss |
KBrewer:
Some other magic items you may want to add to the list:
Eyes of the Eagle (Eyes, 2,500gp): +5 Perception.
Dusty Rose Prism Ioun Stone with Wayfinder (slotless, 5,500gp): +1 insight bonus to AC, +2insight bonus to CMD and CMB
Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier (head, 5,000gp): +1 luck bonus to AC, 1/day negates a critical hit or sneak attack as an immediate action.
While I would not get either of these ahead of a +1 deflection or +1 natural armor bonus I would get both of them before getting a +2 in either deflection or natural armor.
- Gauss
Marius Castille |
I tweaked my caster cleric a bit to take advantage of the reach cleric strategy (our group has three non-reach front-liners). He's still primarily a caster (Str 14 Dex 12 Wis 16) but now he's much more confident when something closes with him. I never realized how nice a feat combat reflexes is---getting your attacks of opportunity while flat-footed is great. Also, the Grace spell from the APG works well with the build. It's a bit pricy for what it does (2nd level, swift action) but it's nice when acrobatics isn't viable.
stuart haffenden |
question:
does a reach cleric of irori 'double threaten'?
that is, if a creature moves into my longspear threat range, after i take an attack of opportunity with my spear, if it then moves into my roundhouse threat range, do i get to take a second attack of opportunity with my kick?
Each "action" can only provoke one AoO from any one creature. So in your example, the move action the monster is performing will only provoke one AoO as it moves toward you.
stuart haffenden |
I'm considering adapting the principle - the Reach Caster school of Action Economy - to a druid or bard. Any thoughts about that? Is there something specific about the cleric, or would those other classes also work?
It would work out the same really. I particularly like it with the Bard although they don't have as many spells/day they can use actions to perform/cast without feeling like that's all they ever get to do.
stuart haffenden |
The Bard is going to act like a Caster, not a Melee'er. He's just going to be closer than normal to the monsters. Mirror Image should make that close proximity feel safer though!
At low levels a Bard can cope with a bit of Dex and light armour, at low-to-mid levels Mirror Image will work, at mid levels Gr. Invisibility comes in.
james maissen |
Each "action" can only provoke one AoO from any one creature. So in your example, the move action the monster is performing will only provoke one AoO as it moves toward you.
You can only take one AOO from movement or any single opportunity. Cleaving with a whip however...
James