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What about the Fate Inquisition instead of a domain?
Granted Powers:
Augury (Sp): Once per day, you can use augury as a spell-like ability.
Agent of Fate (Su): At 8th level, when you use your augury spell-like ability, you gain a benefit that lasts until the end of your next combat. If the result was “weal,” all curing effects used on you cure an additional +1d10 hit points. If the result was “woe,” your melee attacks deal an additional +1d6 points of damage. If the result is “weal and woe” or “nothing,” you gain a +2 insight bonus to your Armor Class.
Nice guide. But one thing I don't understand: Wouldn't a Reach character do the AoO machine job even better by being a full martial instead of a Cleric? Use most of the advice in the guide, but apply it to a full martial: If your full martial class is Paladin, you can even keep some of the spellcasting; if your full martial class is Bloodrager or Ranger, you replace the Cleric/Paladin spellcasting with different spellcasting. If your full martial class is anything else, bag the spellcasting (obviously) and throw the kitchen sink into the Reach stuff: If you have allies that actually have some idea of teamwork but don't want to spend the feats, Cavalier opens up Teamwork Feat options; if you're feeling feat-starved, Fighter really opens up the feat logjam and gives you nice additional benefits like Weapon Training (helps you hit even better) and Armor Training (gives you better mobility and uncrimps the crimp that heavy armor puts on your Combat Reflexes). If you're just wanting to do some serious damage with your AoOs (and normal attacks), Barbarian fits the bill. Battle Herald lets you buff your party (including yourself) while being full BAB -1 (not even -1 if you dip Examplar Brawler, but you need 3 levels of that). Some other full BAB classes may deserve further study as well. In any case, having full BAB instead of 3/4 BAB is a good substitute for self-buffing, and you also get to be somewhat less squishy.
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If you're going to go 3/4 BAB anyway, Reach Inquisitor also seems like potentially a good alternative to Reach Cleric or Reach Warpriest.
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The reach formula this guide supports has been applied pretty much to all classes with a casting focus.
The reach cleric is not there to solve the problem of whether or not any of these characters can melee. Because given enough time they can do so exceedingly well. What the guide proposes is a means to achieve greater action economy by allowing AoO's to become the focus of your personal offense while still providing potent casting support. As a strategy it works quite well.
The difference between a paladin and a cleric is that the paladin is focused not on spellcasting but on melee. Thus while a paladin will prove effective at the offense part by straight up attacking enemies he'l lost out to the spellcaster who can affect an opponent who refuses to play into the AoO game. The reach cleric is not an offensive beast but a tactical conundrum that forces an opponent to choose between impaling themselves on your longspear or letting you summon angels.
The same can be applied to bards, inquisitors, shamans, some druids, and oracles. Each class presents the primary threat of spellcasting with the secondary threat of a butt whooping in melee. Paladins and barbarians can do one but not the other. So reach strategies with them emphasize pressure in the form of a greater threatened area rather than control.
Oh, and the reason why reach warpriests aren't really a thing is due to their incredibly good action economy by dint of fervor. They simply don't have a need to be a passive melee character.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abil ities/fortuitous seems like a really good weapon enhancement for a reach cleric's melee weapon.
Actually, you CAN get close to a full BAB with close to full arcane casting, using the Reach Cleric guide tips and applying them to a build that jumps through some hoops -- search for "Third Character" in the post, because the first part of the post is about other characters. Check out the rest of the thread, too -- for its group-mind play purpose, it could use some more people.
Actually, you CAN get close to a full BAB with close to full arcane casting, using the Reach Cleric guide tips and applying them to a build that jumps through some hoops -- search for "Third Character" in the post, because the first part of the post is about other characters. Check out the rest of the thread, too -- for its group-mind play purpose, it could use some more people.
I just looked at that build.
First of all, the familiar still gets all the saves and whatnot, still pretty flatly better than one bonus spell from an item considering what valet familiar and lookout get a diviner, that's not considering the tremendous boon a faerie dragon is if you snag improved familiar later.
I mean, in my opinion, +4 initiative and double craft speed is worth way more than one spell a day.
Secondly, how are you building a melee reach EK without mentioning combat reflexes?
Third, how are you telling him to take arcane archer when you laid out his feats and none of them included any of the three archery feats required to get into the class?
The "third character" build made no sense, took additional traits with other vital feats missing.
Actually, you CAN get close to a full BAB with close to full arcane casting, using the Reach Cleric guide tips and applying them to a build that jumps through some hoops -- search for "Third Character" in the post, because the first part of the post is about other characters. Check out the rest of the thread, too -- for its group-mind play purpose, it could use some more people.
I just looked at that build.
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Secondly, how are you building a melee reach EK without mentioning combat reflexes?
Third, how are you telling him to take arcane archer when you laid out his feats and none of them included any of the three archery feats required to get into the class?
{. . .}
It isn't yet a complete build (was trying to leave some room for other thread members to chime in), but has plenty of space to get the archery feats in, but I'll put in a mention that space needs to be left open for these. However, you're right that Combat Reflexes does need to go in early enough to merit mention in the fleshed-out part, so I'll add that. Thanks for catching these.
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This looks kickin', and I can use a lot of these same tricks for the master summoner I'm running now! Thanks!
Looked at the Reach Cleric guide again, and realized that since the default Reach Cleric build in there uses Summons a lot and goes to considerable investment to get Summon Monster to take less than a full round, Reach Summoner or especially Reach Master Summoner would be pretty good: Either way, get Summon Monster spell-like ability as a Standard Action without having to spend feats (although you can still spend feats to make it even better).
Reach Eldritch Knight (based upon Sorcerer or Wizard) would not get this benefit, and would have to invest at least 1 feat (Summon Insert_Your_Good-Evil_Alignment_Axis_Here Monster), but the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list also gives potential to do plenty of other stuff that is good for your party and/or unpleasant for your enemies (not saying that the Cleric/Oracle spell list doesn't have any of this, but Sorcerer/Wizard has more), so this doesn't knock it out of the running by any means. You get worse armor (usually none), but better weapons and (after a bit of delay) better BAB, and eventually Spell Critical, which may be icing on the cake, but pretty good icing with the right weapon. I should really do a further fleshed out and debugged version of the build skeleton I linked above . . . .
Battle Oracle? You gain loads and lose little.
Yes you gain much, but also lose Sacred summons, which is quite important to this guide.
Damn, I forgot about the Aura prerequisite!
You can mitigate this problem by using the feat Summon Insert_Your_Good-Evil_Alignment_Axis_Here Monster instead of Sacred Summons. This set of feats did not exist at the time of the quoted posts:
Summon Evil Monster
Summon Good Monster
Summon Neutral Monster
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Summoning is just one of many possible magic tools a reach build can use. Sure, Summoning is effective, but so are other types of magic.
For example, consider building a reach-weapon wielding gish who specializes in some 15' cone spell. Color Spray might be Awesome Display Color Spray. Burning Hands might be Rimed Icy 'Burning' Hands [COLD]. Either hits the foe with a powerful effect from 15' away. If the foe wishes to hinder you then you will probably get an AoO. The Rime Spell version can even be used at 10' distance on a target you threaten, as the target is denied the 5' step even on a successful saving throw.
The idea boils down to 'do something at range on your turn then fish for AoOs during enemy movement'. It's a terrific idea, and it's very effective. Summoning is just one approach that happens to work really well on a cleric chassis.
I'd also like to point out that the reach cleric build does not require being hyper-martial. For example, if you buy level one Iconic Kyra a 5 gp longspear and play her using reach tactics, she becomes a reach cleric for a day. She'll have better action economy, will inflict about 1.5x or 2x damage, will take a bit less damage, and may be slightly better at casting spells in combat. Leastwise, that's been my experience the half dozen times I've done so. Any character with minimum 14 Strength can generally benefit from wielding a reach weapon. The base feats Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, and Improved Initiative are not required, merely optimal for inflicting melee damage and getting maximum defensive value from your reach weapon.
{. . .} I should really do a further fleshed out and debugged version of the build skeleton I linked above . . . .
{. . .}
Well, now they really crippled that idea (see the new FAQ itself.)
Also see this other thread.
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Luck and travel work fine. Position yourself in fishing position(requires cooperation from group). Use bit of luck on yourself. If enemies are not intelligent and blindly charge you, you will get AOOs in which you will probably hit as you are rerolling and taking best out of 2 rolls. Potions of enlarge person are just 50 gp. Without sacred summons I don't think you can take AOOs with the full round required for summoning, as you need 1 hand free to cast.
So, there is a new elven weapon finess-able exotic weapon : the elven branch spear, which gives reach.
Does that means that a dex-based elven reach cleric is now a viable option ?
Let's say you take "heirloom trait". Because you are an elf, "elven" weapons are martial weapon, so you can get the weapon proficiency for the branched spear, without having to take a feat.
At first level, you take combat reflexe. Thank to the elven branch spear, you have a +2 to attack roll when making an AoO. This should help to hit even if you don't have weapon finesse yet, as long as you have 10 str.
At level 3, you have weapon finesse. And, thanks to "masterwork transformation", your heirloom weapon is now masterwork.
It means that, with your 18 Dex, you now attack at 4(dex)+2(bonus vs AoO)+2(BAB)+1(MW) = +9. And you are able to do 5 AoO per round.
What about your damage ? That's the main problem : a mere D8+0 (Str 10) is not particularly sexy... You can't use power attack either. Until you are able to enchant your heirloom weapon with the "agile" property (you can't cast "cat's grace", alas...), "divine favor", "sun metal" and "weapon of awe" are the only (weak) ways to increase your damage input.
So, if someone knows a way (archetype, trait...) to increase this damage input, even a little, such a build could start to shine. The goal is obviously to be able to dump Str to 10, so that you "only" need Dex, Wis and Cha...
Note : I also looked at the amateur swashbuckler feat. You can't get "precise strike", and "opportune parry and riposte" seems useless (no AoO against foes 5ft away from you...Reach weapons do have drawbacks.), but "dodging panache" lets you add you CHA against one attack and move 5ft away. Exactly what you need to stop full attacks or negates the "It makes a five foot step toward you". Don't forget to KS monsters to get the precious panache point. Anyway, it could be a good 5th level feat, as I did not find any feat allowing you to shorten you reach.
Crojan--great write up!
Have you considered the Improved Counterspell feat? In 3.5, I had a druid that used IC to trade out flame strikes to negate enemy fireballs and lightning bolts, which is better than wasting spell slots on cures and heals.
It was particularly effective for druids since flamestrike is 4th level and druid cure spells are usually 1 level higher than cleric cure spells.
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Battle Oracle? You gain loads and lose little.Yes you gain much, but also lose Sacred summons, which is quite important to this guide.Damn, I forgot about the Aura prerequisite!You can mitigate this problem by using the feat Summon Insert_Your_Good-Evil_Alignment_Axis_Here Monster instead of Sacred Summons. This set of feats did not exist at the time of the quoted posts:
I thought the big thing about Sacred Summons is that it allows you to summon as a standard action instead of the summon spell taking a full round action.
The feats suggested here do not change the casting time.
That being said, I'm playing a game based in Ptolus, and the gods are different. I really wanted luck and travel domains, so I couldn't get a good alignment to take advantage of sacred summons (Rajek the Wanderer is true neutral). Does the build suffer a lot without this feat?