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SM 1: eagle (3x melee attacks)
SNA 1: eagle
SM 2: small earth elemental (melee)
SNA 2: small earth elemental
SM 3: aurochs (trample!) or lantern archon (ranged attacks)
SNA 3: aurochs
SM 4: hound archon (melee)
SNA 4: tiger (pounce) or satyr (spells)
SM 5: bearded devil (melee) or bralani azata (ranged + spells)
SNA 5: cyclops (decent melee + natural 20 & greataxe!)
SM 6: dire tiger (pounce) or shadow demon (incorporeal + spells) or succubus (spells) or lillend (bardic music + spells)
SNA 6: dire tiger (pounce)
SM 7: bone devil (melee + SLAs) or vrock (melee + SLAs)
SNA 7: fire giant (melee)
SM 8: hezrou (melee + SLAs)
SNA 8: purple worm (melee)
SM 9: trumpet archon (spells) or nalfeshnee (melee + SLAs)
SNA 9: storm giant (melee)
(Not counting multiple creatures of a lower level, and all IMO, of course.)
IMO = in my opinion.
Yes, the celestial template is nice for the extra damage from smite.
I added some comments to my post above, for what it's worth (FWIW).
I know this is a huge open ended question. I am going to be playing a lore oracle and want to use summon monster as one of my major spells. It would be great if some of you with your experience and number crunching could come up with what are the best summoned creatures per level and why you think so. Ready set go...
I tend to think it's situational -- however, having said that, hogarth's table isn't bad -- I'd say that the elemental is a good choice, but (situationally) you might want a different one than earth (fire for burn, for instance). Also, I would put the lantern archon ahead of the aurochs as the light rays are ranged touch *and* bypass all DR. (Plus, he can cast Aid, which doesn't suck at the level).
Also, I would put the lantern archon ahead of the aurochs as the light rays are ranged touch *and* bypass all DR. (Plus, he can cast Aid, which doesn't suck at the level).
When I say "A or B", there's no significance to the order. However, the aurochs is pretty impressive; if you have Augmented Summoning, you can summon a creature that can do 2d6+12 damage (Ref DC 19 for 1/2) to multiple creatures each round with no attack roll. Compare that to the lantern archon's possible 2d6 damage (+3 ranged touch, but with no Precise Shot feat) to a single target each round.
Can you summon Swarms? I know everytime we come up against a Swarm encounter (spiders and the like) we have a hard time of it. Seems like no one wants to pack Burning Hands anymore.
You can with the spells Summon Swarm or Vomit Swarm, but note that you have no control over the swarm in the former case and you're restricted to spider swarms (doing a fairly puny 1d6 damage per round) in the latter case.
Can you summon Swarms? I know everytime we come up against a Swarm encounter (spiders and the like) we have a hard time of it. Seems like no one wants to pack Burning Hands anymore.You can with the spells Summon Swarm or Vomit Swarm, but note that you have no control over the swarm in the former case and you're restricted to spider swarms (doing a fairly puny 1d6 damage per round) in the latter case.
Although Vomit Swarm gives greater swarms later.
Here's a list of Summon Nature's Ally in a spreadsheet, see the bottom half. Note that the stats assume the feat Augment Summoning.
As someone who is playing through Carrion Crown right now, I recommend remembering the whirlwind ability of air elementals.
Don't forget you can summon elementals from bestiary 2 also. Some of them have some nice abilities.
Summon Monster 5 wins with Celestial/Infernal Whooly Rhinos. Summon Monster 7 does the same with outsider variants of T-rexs. As far as damage goes those are the best two bang for your buck. Between the smite and their already high damage it gets ridiculous.
Summon Monster 5 wins with Celestial/Infernal Whooly Rhinos. Summon Monster 7 does the same with outsider variants of T-rexs. As far as damage goes those are the best two bang for your buck. Between the smite and their already high damage it gets ridiculous.
Good point -- I think a woolly rhinoceros or an ankylosaurus are probably both better than a bearded devil in melee.
But a T. rex doesn't look very exciting, IMO; I'd rather have 1d3 dire tigers.
Situationally against creatures with metal armor or are metal-based, lightning elemental (small) is beast. Its CMB doesn't scale up with bigger forms though, so that is a flaw.
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I think that if the best creatures are the same for a certain level Summon Monster tends to have an edge due to the Smite Evil ability. The tiger and giants from SNA are very nice in my experience though. It is probably worth taking SNA over or in addition to SM for some levels. In general, I'd like to advise including more pouncy cats.
3rd level - Starting at SM/SNA III you can get 5 attacks per monster with the leopard. If you've got Augment Summoning a celestial leopard can inflict [u]serious[/u] damage. Just have it start out 10 feet from the enemy and charge. This can work well for stuff too big for aurochs to trample.
4th level - Use multiple leopards to charge into flank or replace them with lions and tigers as enemy AC merits and your mood dictates. The tiger from SNA IV is a beast, one of the best values on either list for the level. The celestial lion isn't bad against evil foes either.
5th level - Ankylosaurus has a killer stun attack, but the dire lion is also a solid choice for the 5th level spells, especially if he's celestial. He can probably bust out 100+ damage on a charge with 5 attacks at about +16 to hit. Multiple tigers or celestial lions would be great too.
6th level - Dire tiger is awesome, but the celestial dire tiger is absolutely sick. The CDT gets +14 damage against an evil foe. That's right, haters, you can summon a CDT at 12th level which smites harder than your party's Paladin.
7th level - More Celestial Dire Tigers!
8th level - More Celestial Dire Tigers!
9th level - Pixie might be pretty funny...
I agree, Celestial Dire Tigers are pretty insane.
I was finally looking over the Ultimate Magic tonight and there's a feat or something that gives you +1 creature when you summon multiple lower level creatures. 4 celestial dire tigers, chargin, pouncin, and smitin for a 7th level spell? YES F&&$IN PLEASE!
I think that if the best creatures are the same for a certain level Summon Monster tends to have an edge due to the Smite Evil ability.
Excellent point about Smite Evil (and leopards), although it's less useful if you're fighting a group of enemies.
I'm a big fan of the T-Rex, myself, just for their greater ability to grapple. (Give it Animal Growth for extra fun times. If you have to ask your DM if a Colossal creature can fit in the room, things are about to get interesting! :P )
Its amazing reach can be of use as well.
Another thing about the T-Rex is it has... well. An utterly obscene Perception mod (+37!). As someone once said to me, "Apparently it can spot an invisible halfling." So much for "it can only see you if you move"! ;)
My druid kind of favors the giant centipede. They are medium size, they have poison, and they look intimidating. In the last session, my druid summoned a giant centipede just to chase a low-life miscreant out of the bar.
At second level, the small elemental is nice. It can be made in whatever form is useful -- she made her air elemental in the form of a winged cat to avenge the death of her first animal companion. In the future, I'm considering using the spell to summon an earth elemental pony so the halfling rogue can ride it into battle.
I'll just point out that for Summoners, the priorities can change slightly, as the longer summon duration means these spells have utility application as well as combat. A squad of multiple air elementals make great scouts when the duration is 1 minute/level, as long as you're most interested in geography. Their perception modifiers aren't great, so they'll probably miss sneaky enemies, but the fact that they can fly (really fast!) through windows, locked doors and other obstacles mean they're well suited to scouting dungeon layouts ahead of the party. Just be sure to put a point into linguistics to learn Auran.
Personally I like the Giant Ant at level 2 for summon monster. Slowly gains a bit more SR than other summons.
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I'll revise my list, based on the comments above:
SM 1: celestial eagle (3x melee attacks)
SNA 1: eagle
SM 2: small earth/mud elemental (melee)
SNA 2: small earth/mud elemental
SM 3: celestial aurochs (trample) or celestial leopard (pounce) or lantern archon (ranged attacks)
SNA 3: aurochs
SM 4: celestial lion (pounce) or hound archon (melee)
SNA 4: tiger (pounce) or satyr (spells)
SM 5: celestial dire lion (pounce) or celestial woolly rhino (melee) or bralani azata (ranged + spells)
SNA 5: ankylosaurus (melee + daze) or cyclops (melee + natural 20 & greataxe)
SM 6: celestial dire tiger (pounce) or shadow demon (incorporeal + spells) or succubus (charm monster) or lillend (bardic music + spells)
SNA 6: dire tiger (pounce)
SM 7: celestial tyrannosaurus (melee) or bone devil (melee + SLAs) or vrock (melee + SLAs)
SNA 7: fire giant (melee)
SM 8: hezrou (melee + SLAs)
SNA 8: purple worm (melee)
SM 9: trumpet archon (spells) or nalfeshnee (melee + SLAs)
SNA 9: storm giant (melee + SLAs)
(Not counting multiple creatures of a lower level.)
Lantern Archons at level 3 and 4 [1d3] and 5 [1d4+1]. Seriously these guys fly, by-pass all DR and attack Touch AC - bloody awesome!
Lantern Archons at level 3 and 4 [1d3] and 5 [1d4+1]. Seriously these guys fly, by-pass all DR and attack Touch AC - bloody awesome!
Ya I have used that tactic before but it get old after a while because your pecking your enemies to death. Always felt to me a bit cheesy.
I like Hogarth's list. I do love the riding dog for summon monster I though (which was errata'd out of SNA but not SM).
I would have listed it, but I figure it was an oversight. YMMV, of course.
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I've always found the Elementals the best because if you can speak the lingo, you can get them to execute complex plans and they have nifty abilities. I tend to shy away from summoning the celestial/fiendish animals because all they can do is fight (unless you have Handle Animal) and that's boring.
Basically the summons can be broken into 3 camps.
Celestial/Fiendish animals. Pretty much just a beatstick, but some are very GOOD beatsticks.Elementals. Some are good beatsticks, some can do a lot more, and are intelligent (like you said, if you speak the lingo) to do some nifty things.
Celestials/Fiends-Some have it all; combat ability, healing, utility, you name it. Summon a Succubus and have it spam Charm Monster to slowly turn the battlefield your way. An Astral Deva can HEAL like HEAL HEAL. So can the Gaele Azata. Gaele Azata has all crazy kinds of spells, in fact I think I'd put it ahead of Trumpet Archon on my lists.
An Astral Deva can HEAL like HEAL HEAL. So can the Gaele Azata. Gaele Azata has all crazy kinds of spells, in fact I think I'd put it ahead of Trumpet Archon on my lists.
I'm not sure what you mean. The trumpet archon has Heal memorized twice compared to once for the ghaele azata, and it's a 14th level cleric instead of a 13th level cleric. The ghaele has some fancier spell-like abilities, though. Maybe it's a toss-up.
An Astral Deva can HEAL like HEAL HEAL. So can the Gaele Azata. Gaele Azata has all crazy kinds of spells, in fact I think I'd put it ahead of Trumpet Archon on my lists.I'm not sure what you mean. The trumpet archon has Heal memorized twice compared to once for the ghaele azata, and it's a 14th level cleric instead of a 13th level cleric. The ghaele has some fancier spell-like abilities, though. Maybe it's a toss-up.
Basically yeah. It all comes down to preference I guess, they are extremely close. I like the rays as well.
dot
I've been looking for an updated .pdf list for awhile now. Anyone care to help a future summoner/conjurer out with any links or info?
Also, I love summoning, but not sure if the recent books have changed the summoner to something utilitarian and versatile enough to warrant picking it over a conjurer wizard. Anyone with experience in that regard?
I've been looking for an updated .pdf list for awhile now. Anyone care to help a future summoner/conjurer out with any links or info?
Also, I love summoning, but not sure if the recent books have changed the summoner to something utilitarian and versatile enough to warrant picking it over a conjurer wizard. Anyone with experience in that regard?
I'm playing a master summoner in a current game and the best part about them is the ability to pretty much spam summon monsters from level 1. A wizard is stuck with 1 round summons that take a full round action to summon each time. I feel that the extra utility a wizard has from other spells is far outweighed by the sheer quantity/length of summons a summoner gets. You might get a different perspective from someone in a party with a wizard, however.
As the main support caster (there is a cleric but they focus on heals/melee/blasting) all of those summons are ridiculously useful. Giving every party member Aid right before each fight with a lantern archon is nice. As is the ability to have spells "ready" that you usually wouldn't prepare. For example, one of the mephits can use Gust of Wind 1/day. That spell usually isn't very useful unless you're facing many small/tiny creatures or a swarm.
The length of the summons also lets you reliably summon them prior to running into a fight. And with an eidolon that you can make into a stealth monkey (Ranks+dex+8 evolution+small size+ skill focus since there's nothing better to spend feats on for a 1/2 level eidolon) you almost always have time to prepare before a fight.
Are they viable with out having to summon swarms of lesser summons? I know if I come to the table and attempt to summon 30+ lantern Archons I would get the look of the utmost disapproval and promptly be encountering dismissals at every turn from then on, lol.
I was looking at the Synthesist, since they don't rely so heavily on the eidolon being out, and can make full use of the summon SLA too. Any perspective on that?
I don't think so.
On a side note, it just occured to me that genies (jann or djinn -- who do have Combat Reflexes) are no longer on the SM/SNA lists as they were in 3.5!
You'll still be viable without a lot multiple summons, you just won't be as crazy good, especially at levels where you could be swarming the enemy with Celestial Dire Tigers.
Not all multiples are equally inconvenient. You can handwave Lantern Archons position to a large extent; just count how many rolls you get to make and don't worry about miniatures. A herd of Aurochs doesn't need to make multiple attack rolls, it can just move and trample as a unit.
I really like Lemures for SM2. Not great damage (though 2 attacks goes well with group buffs), but excellent staying power. DR is rare at that level, and they're immune to some stuff.
And more importantly: if you can speak Infernal, you can talk to them and give them complex commands.
I recently summoned a couple around an accidentally triggered large fire elemental. Their DR and immunity to fire kept it occupied until we managed to run away, regroup and counter attack. I don't think I've ever gotten that much value out of a single spell.
Celestial Leopards have won us a few fights too.
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Well something that should be noted here is that "Best" is determined by the goal. Most people seem to be focusing on the overall damage. While that metric is relevant, having a few options available is very key to being a successful summoner. For example Hogarth lists for SM6 the Dire Tiger. The Dire Tiger can dish out quite a beat down, but at that level of play they can become inflexible. Consider the Erinyes. Not quite the damage of a Dire Tiger, but not horrible either. They also have both good Ranged and Melee so are immediately versatile. Coupled with their Constant True Seeing and their ability to fly, the Erinyes quickly become a very appealing option that can solve many tactical problems that the Dire Tiger can not. Or even a Lilend Azata. If your party already has a good front line, then summon a Bard and make them even better. And don't forget to let them heal up the party before their time expires. Or a Huge Air elemental harassing an enemy caster can be very effective.
Point being that "Best" does not always mean highest damage output. As mentioned above maybe the best tactic for a combat is to summon some Lemurs and have them pin opponents in place. Or as I once did, "Best" means summoning a Celestial Dolphin to take out the Undine who tried to swim away with our McGuffin.
Yes summoning is all about grabbing the right tool for the job.
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I had a lot of fun with summoning multiple stirges on the same guy (though I'm not sure if there is a limit to how many can be on someone). He was getting blood drained at a scary rate and was contracting plenty of nice, irrelevant diseases, because they still had onset delay. It's really too bad that diseases with onsets are only effective against PCs, but this Orc got bashed.
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@666: it's not explicitly stated anywhere, but it is strongly implied. Everything else that you can summon with Summon Monster comes from Bestiary I. Only "elemental" is a bit open-ended so you could also try to summon elementals from the other bestiaries. Personally I wouldn't object since I firmly believe earth elementals are the best ones anyway. Though lightning elementals are pretty cool as well.
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There are not best creatures per summoning level. The best creature changes per encounter. That is the wonderful flexibility of the Summon Chain spells.
That said. We often find that the best summon of level 3 or 4 with augment summoning is a bunch earth elementals. A bunch of hasted small earth elementals can drop almost everything that walks.
Seriously, if your enemy is land-bound, it will be facing several attacks at +8 (1d6+11 of damage). One for each elemental. They are slow, but can cross through earth based materials, climb like freaks and they feel the position of everything touching ground in 60ft.)
The numbers:
Attack: +2 base + 5 strenght +1 size +1 vs land-bound -1 power attack = +8 (+9 hasted)
Damage: +7 strenght +3 power attack +1 vs land-bound=1d6+11
And more importantly: if you can speak Infernal, you can talk to them and give them complex commands.
I don't think so. They are mindless. And they don't speak Infernal.
I don't think so.
On a side note, it just occured to me that genies (jann or djinn -- who do have Combat Reflexes) are no longer on the SM/SNA lists as they were in 3.5!
You can Summon Djinn with Summon Good Monster (Level 5)
I am looking forward to read Summon Evil Monster. Will there be Efreets?