Best Summon Monster by level

[666bender]

Aeric Blackberry wrote:

There are not best creatures per summoning level. The best creature changes per encounter. That is the wonderful flexibility of the Summon Chain spells.

That said. We often find that the best summon of level 3 or 4 with augment summoning is a bunch earth elementals. A bunch of hasted small earth elementals can drop almost everything that walks.

Seriously, if your enemy is land-bound, it will be facing several attacks at +8 (1d6+11 of damage). One for each elemental. They are slow, but can cross through earth based materials, climb like freaks and they feel the position of everything touching ground in 60ft.)

The numbers:
Attack: +2 base + 5 strenght +1 size +1 vs land-bound -1 power attack = +8 (+9 hasted)
Damage: +7 strenght +3 power attack +1 vs land-bound=1d6+11

my cleric also add:

heroism aura for the group of earthlings. (+2/+2)
the bard sings another (+2/+2)
someone ready and cast haste \ blessing of fervor.

[LazarX]

Keep in mind that as a divine caster you WILL be restricted by alignment.

Consider the appropriate Summon "Alignment" Monster feat.

[andreww]

No SMV list should ignore the Anylosaurus. With augment summoning its tail attack is forcing DC25 saves to avoid being dazed which is about the best condition around barring dead/helpless. It is huge so it blocks up loads of the battlefield and has 15' reach so threatens a massive area.

[Te'Shen]

sunbeam wrote:

. . .

There are so many languages that you might possibly find useful that I wonder how you could possibly take them all. . . .

Psst... Peri-Blooded Aasimar (+2 Int/Chr) with Truespeaker. Gain two languages for each rank in Linguistics.

Giving up skilled hurts, though.

I guess Guileful Polyglot would get an honorable mention... but you have to be able to pick up rogue talents to get it, which kind of ruins it.

[SAMAS]

ItoSaithWebb wrote:

stuart haffenden wrote:

Lantern Archons at level 3 and 4 [1d3] and 5 [1d4+1]. Seriously these guys fly, by-pass all DR and attack Touch AC - bloody awesome!

Ya I have used that tactic before but it get old after a while because your pecking your enemies to death. Always felt to me a bit cheesy.

It's a great emergency measure, especially if you call them off SMV (summon a small squad and have them hit the same target to save time). No matter what you're facing, you have a way to hurt it.

And it's always nice to have Options. Especially if you're a fan of Gradius.

[Thelemic_Noun]

What about with the rings of monster summoning?

Which is the best for the price (assuming no alignment restrictions)?

[Devilkiller]

I guess the "best" summon really does come down to what you want to do with it...

I still think that smiting cats are pretty tough to beat when it comes to damage. Elementals can definitely offer a lot of utility though. Big air elementals are also great in combat due to their Whirlwind ability, which offers some battlefield control and can often defeat even powerful monsters. Many a monster was whisked off a cliff or bridge or dropped into a Pit spell by elementals.

A while back I played a PC who made a wand of Summon Monster IV for his familiar. The hound archon was very helpful in some battles as high as around 15th level due to his spell-like abilities, and Lantern Archons in a party with a Bard are DPR all-stars (maybe they're actually a little too good). I also found it was helpful to keep a list of the SLAs available from Summon Monster I-IV:

SLA List:

aid
acid arrow
blur
chill metal (DC 14)
continual flame
detect evil
glitterdust
gust of wind
heat metal (DC 14)
magic circle against evil
magic missile
message
pyrotechnics
scorching ray
soften earth and stone
stinking cloud (DC 15)
wind wall

Most of those come from the various Mephits though the Hound Archon's circle against evil can be a real life saver when dealing with charms and compulsions.

@andreww - Yeah, I like "angryosaurus". The 15' reach can really help with placing it into combats, and the fact it only has a single attack can help prevent the other players from groaning about me making too many attack rolls (My eidolon already had 5 or 6...)

[ShoulderPatch]

666bender wrote:

It was mentioned that elemental that aren't fire / earth/ air/ water are allowed .

Where does it say that ?

Ascalaphus wrote:

@666: it's not explicitly stated anywhere, but it is strongly implied. Everything else that you can summon with Summon Monster comes from Bestiary I. Only "elemental" is a bit open-ended so you could also try to summon elementals from the other bestiaries. Personally I wouldn't object since I firmly believe earth elementals are the best ones anyway. Though lightning elementals are pretty cool as well.

RAW, it's allowed, and despite being known hasn't warranted a FAQ/Errata

...probably because from a power perspective it isn't abusive. It tends to help SNA more than SM and SNA could use a bit of catching up. I've never met a GM that didn't allow it (excepting the PFS note below) though I did meet two that make it SNA only.

RAI, it was unintentional (it was done the way it was originally to save space)

... PFS , it is NOT allowed by a specific PFS ruling. Short of a Faq/Errata or Dev comment that's about the 3rd best way to guesstimate what Paizo wants/wanted.

What I'm getting at is: YMMV, if it's critical to you ask the GM of your game ahead of time.

[ShoulderPatch]

If it hasn't been tossed in before, I'll add if you can pick up the feat Superior Summoning it can changes the math to what's best, generally or situation dependent. Run the numbers for 4.5 small earth elementals vs a Hound Archon or a Tiger for example. Damage is respectable and sheer number of critters can be a great defense particularly against foes with few but strong attacks. Also, if you speak their language, elementals and other intelligent creatures give SM/SNA some versatility as their numbers grow. I've seen Med Air Elementals and Hound Archons used to good effect in a crowd control situation via Superior Summoning and SMVI, just needing to nudge innocent (read: stupid) bystanders in the right direction. I once considered that feat optional but I now fight to get it into a build with SM and require it in a build with SNA

Edit
Also, speaking of Hound Archons,
"Change Shape (Su) A hound archon can assume any canine form of Small to Large size, as if using beast shape II. While in canine form, the hound archon loses its bite, slam, and greatsword attacks, but gains the bite attack of the form it chooses. For the purposes of this ability, canines include any dog-like or wolf-like creature of the animal type."

Translation, Hound Archon is the best tripper at that level. If allowed go Dire Hyena, get 10 foot reach while you're at it. Even if a Dire Hyena is disallowed by your GM Dire Wolf almost certainly won't be. Either of those with large size and BSII stat boost ups his CMB to 10 making him the best tripper at that level (2 better than the actual Dire Wolf which shares the SM level with him but is a CR lower).
... mind you at that level that's still not a great chance of working but if you've got a few bonuses to it (flanking, Bard, he's in range of a Haste or BoF, Tactical Acument, etc) the odds go up.

[Kayerloth]

Might be as simple as a desire to keep the list relevant for the largest base of players, those whose groups can access only the Bestiary I.

[Devilkiller]

I'm not sure if the alternate elementals are supposed to be allowed or not. I've always avoided them since I figure their use might not be RAI and the FAQ hammer could come whack any PC who starts relying on them (and possibly give the impression that I'd been "cheating" or "stretching the rules" up until then)

@Kayerloth - The content from the various Bestiary books is available on the PRD, so it seems like practically everybody should have access to it.

@ShoulderPatch - Hyenas aren't really canine. I believe they're actually more closely related to cats (though I wouldn't call them feline either). Anyhow, the real problem is that you might have to summon the Hound Archon in humanoid form and have him waste a standard action to get into Dire Wolf form. That's no problem if you're a Summoner pre-summoning at a minute per level, but it kind of sucks if you just spent a full round bringing in a creature who now has to wait a round to do anything useful. I'd expect to see table variation.

[Nessus_9th]

0gre wrote:

I like Hogarth's list. I do love the riding dog for summon monster I though (which was errata'd out of SNA but not SM).

Actually you're wrong, according to pfsrd it was changed from "riding dog" to "dog" in the 5th printing. Let your cursor hover over the "?" next to dog and you will see what I mean.

[Marcus Robert Hosler]

ShoulderPatch wrote:

If it hasn't been tossed in before, I'll add if you can pick up the feat Superior Summoning it can changes the math to what's best, generally or situation dependent.

As always, summonings most limiting factor is not in-game. It's turn speed. You won't be a summoner for long if your turns take forever. Superior Summoning is great, but unusable for the vast majority of players.

[Smallfoot]

Marcus Robert Hosler wrote:

ShoulderPatch wrote:

If it hasn't been tossed in before, I'll add if you can pick up the feat Superior Summoning it can changes the math to what's best, generally or situation dependent.

As always, summonings most limiting factor is not in-game. It's turn speed. You won't be a summoner for long if your turns take forever. Superior Summoning is great, but unusable for the vast majority of players.

Consider getting Summoning Cards. But be warned that you have to change the riding dog to a normal dog. The cards include the Celestial and Fiendish templates, plus the adjustments for Augment Summoning. Although there have been some additions to summoning that haven't been included, it does make a good start. You could always use the card as a format example to create your own.

[Gevaudan]

As an alternative idea:

The summon neutral monster feat allows Thoqquas at level 3, which can burn tunnels into stone walls. A small handful of those sort of break dungeons, even more so than earth elementals and portable holes.

[Ascalaphus]

Also, thoqquas are hilarious agianst grabby/sticky monsters.

[Devilkiller]

As a matter of etiquette it might be best to limit yourself to a single summoning spell or SLA at a time unless there's some dire emergency that the group agrees you need to use your "Angel Summoner" powers to solve.

[DominusMegadeus]

Devilkiller wrote:

As a matter of etiquette it might be best to limit yourself to a single summoning spell or SLA at a time unless there's some dire emergency that the group agrees you need to use your "Angel Summoner" powers to solve.

Of course. They're rather good at BMX, y'know...

[BltzKrg242]

So this post has sat vacant for a while and rather than creating new,
I thought I would pop my question at the end here.
I have an Evil Red Wizard of Thay (Lawful Evil Diabolist) and quite a few of the suggestions don't really translate to an evil summoner.

I found the Love for summoning Small Ice elementals last night when fighting a Gelatinous Cube (Frost). Summoned 3 by using a Summon III.
Will be 7th level in a minute so will be picking up Summon IV.

My DM allows the variant critters from https://sites.google.com/site/pathfinderogc/magic/all-spells/s/summon-monst er

For crowd control (Trample), would I be better served by the Bison or by summoning 1-3 Aurochs?

[Azothath]

well - the summons list is constrained for simplicity.

I think most home GMs expand the list a bit for thematic purposes for specific types/styles of casters (prestige classes) and it's a good use for extra material components.

I think the best summons depends on what you need at the moment, so it's somewhat circumstantial. I'd bin them as;
1. Combat (melee or ranged)
2. Support(recovery(healing))
3. Reconnaissance(includes spotting)
4. Transport

if you rely on them for SLAs then you really need to get a decent Wizard in the party. Given the short duration of the Summon spells, transport is usually flying to get the party over a specific environmental hurdle.

There are summoning guides out in the Guide to the Class Guides thread (Wizard Guides, The Summoner's Handbook, Summon monster section).

[Rycaut]

At one PFS table someone mentioned that spells cast by summoned creatures go away when the summons ends - can anyone confirm that?

(makes the Aid cast by Lantern Archons a bit more situational at lower levels especially)

I assume this doesn't apply to spells that aren't ongoing effects - i.e. Heal.

And of course any summoned creature can't cast more summons.

[DrSwordopolis]

Conjuration (Summoning) wrote:

Summoning: a summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower, but it is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can't be summoned again.

When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have.

[Rycaut]

right - something that I think many many people don't realize.

so summoned creatures casting spells without ongoing effects is useful (i.e. heals etc) but spells with a duration don't persist after the summons - so no long lasting aids or any other buffs that a summoned creature has unless you have some means of keeping that summoned creature around for a long duration as well (here summoners get it a lot better than wizards or clerics)

[KestrelZ]

I find that summoning packs of creatures for non-combat purposes can situationaly save a group. All your fighters need saving from drowning? Summon a group of dolphins.

I still miss summoning large, flying beasts that can be ridden, ones from the 3.5 list (gryphons, hippogryphs, etc.).

[Devilkiller]

If you bring in 3+ aurochs or bison they can potentially use a Stampede though some DMs might ask you to make some Handle Animal rolls. This might be a little bit overpowered though. I had worked up a "Buffalo Bill" Master Summoner at one point but never actually played it partially because I was afraid it would be too over the top.

Depending on your PC's outlook he might find it amusing to summon LG Hound Archons and force them to help with his Evil plans. From the alternate lists the wererat looks pretty interesting since it has effective DR and the ability to obey spoken commands. The Tiger is also obviously a little better than the Lion. Remember that you can summon Resolute Tigers as well as Fiendish ones.

[The Sneak King]

zmanerism wrote:

I forgot to say that I will be playing in the Carrion Crown adventure path (no spoilers please) but I believe that having the celestial template will rock. So please keep this in mind. What does IMO stand for. Also for the record I only have summon monster available to me.

What does SNA mean?

[wraithstrike]

SNA = summon nature's ally