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Hitdice's page

2,545 posts (2,785 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 6 aliases.


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I think you're right about hitting the heroic jackpot Geraint, but I think that less confusing back when we had zero-level humans instead of NPC classes.

...

Classic Traveller had senility roles, but only if you made the survival roles to live that long. ;)


Freehold DM wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
I will never understand how or why assaulting someone who's sexual tastes and lifestyle are different from ones own is life affirming in any way. Beating up someone because they are different doesn't make me feel safe. It makes me scared that I can't be myself.

Many people don't want to be "themselves"; they want to be part of a group, and are willing to do a fairly thorough job of submerging their personal identity into that of their group. Beating on members of the outgroup is a good way of establishing ingroup bonding.

Frankly, Americans are the outliers here. The idea that "I can't be myself' isn't something most cultures worry about. It's being different from everyone else scares most people.

the pressure to fit in, I get. But when blood is the only way to look cool, it's not a group I want to fit in with.

What can I tell you Freehold, most people on this earth aren't so discriminating. :(


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NobodysHome wrote:
Pan wrote:
Mythic Evil Lincoln wrote:

Am I the only one who figures that maybe the rental guy was just being lazy?

I just hate to assume the worst, but I can totally see the small-city rental clerk just not wanting to do his job for anyone of any race and coming up with a BS reason not to.

Yeap, it's quite possible. That's why I would complain about the service but leave out assumptions.

That's why I recommended going straight to the top and just posting it as an innocent query to corporate.

Very frequently, neither the employee nor the manager at a chain store are paid enough to care.

** spoiler omitted **...

Good Freaking Lord! Never mind corporate, call the Better Business Bureau!


thejeff wrote:
Sissyl wrote:

If we consider what motivated the crap starting ages table in the first place, I would say that it's one of two things: Either some nerd thought that since elves live for hundreds of years, their adolescence and childhood must remain the same percentage of total lifespan that a human does, or they considered it important that you could play elves that got to say things like "I may look younger than you, but I actually taught your great-grandfather how to fight."

In Drakar och Demoner, a swedish BRP game of the 80s, the problem was even bigger. The description of elves stated that they could live forever, and that some were as old as thirty thousand years. EVERY SINGLE ELF PLAYER I talked to drew the conclusion that 30000/3=10000 years old was a brilliant starting age for elves, just like 60/3=20 years was for a human.

I find the table to be b&$+&+~%, a leftover of how someone had a bit of unluck when thinking that somehow has remained in the game for various editions now. It leads to moronic problems, it is never adressed, and it rules out younger elf characters which would be a rather interesting proposition.

OTOH, I think it's stupid to have a long-lived race and never play by the rules any character who actually takes advantage of it. I do think it's important 'that you could play elves that got to say things like "I may look younger than you, but I actually taught your great-grandfather how to fight."'

If all PC elves should be the same age as the PC humans, you lose part of the interest in playing a long lived race.

Taught his great-grandfather how to fight? The elves in my homebrew selected his great-grandparents on both sides because they were trying for best in breed at the Westminster Human Show. Okay, look, that's one of those things that sounds worse than it is when you say it out loud. It's certainly less exploitive than a "wandering minstrel" who leaves a trail of half-elves across the countryside.


Gnomezrule wrote:

LOL the chart was actually at the vets office. My point was people are applying a ration to maturation when nothing like a straight ratio actually is scientifically accurate. I was trying (unsuccessfully) to point out that the working 7 to 1 ration for dogs isn't really accurate so using an analogous ration for humans to elves might make it easy to understand but not terribly realistic.

As for what PF supports the only thing that I have found RAW is starting adventuring age. I looked through the PF elves book very little is said about how they grow up.

I am extremely sympathetic to the argument if they spent 60 years in school they should have higher skills but what I was hoping to express is that I think the starting ages where an attempt to point to the general age or earliest age you could expect to meet an adventuring elf.

Oh, right, a chart that wasn't in an RPG book; I would have thought of that eventually. :P

I think you're right about the starting ages. It seems like this topic gets a new thread every three to four months, but no one worries about what the dwarf clerics were doing for the first seventy years of their lives when a human starts at twenty-seven. Don't ask me.


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GWL, I think you should report it to the chain's website, just make an effort to describe it as calmly as you have here instead of putting racism in the subject line. Starting the conversation with accusations of racism can have a distancing effect, but if store policies are being applied at the local level in a fashion that leaves potential (or maybe that should be dissuaded) customers wondering if racism is at work, the higher-ups will want to know.


Gnomezrule wrote:

I am not denying the problems brought up here but it feels we are picking at the periphery of what the system is trying do address if at all. I we are addressing how fluff or unstated fluff gels with how the mechanics addresses things where it codifies starting adventuring age.

I get the well if the elf is 90 years older why isn't that reflected in their skill set reflecting that education. I think Mark Hoover pointed out that a bonus to int and dex covers applies a big bonus to many of the skills that can be used without taking ranks in them.

A few things. The 1 to 7 ration of "dog years" is really a misnomer. The last chart I saw had a fast childhood, slightly longer adolescence with several healthy active years before middle age and old age. So the several decades in diapers is a possible abstraction though a simple one. It does not take into account the ways changes in development taking place in nature.

Which Chart was that Gnomez? From everything I've seen, elves' slow maturation rate is physical in PF/Golarion (as in, the child character rules in Ultimate Campaign give the same attribute mods to a human eight year old and an elven fifty-five year old) and cultural in D&D (as in, elves mature at roughly the same rate as humans and declare themselves adult at around one hundred years old). Different systems handle it differently, which can get a bit weird when PF, an OGL system, has a different take than D&D, the originator of the OGL, but everything I can think of from PF supports "dog years."


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thejeff wrote:
Hitdice wrote:
Or, only slightly more seriously, if GRRM produced 100 page books ten times as quickly as as he does 1,00 page books, would his readers owe it to him to buy the next book in the series, even if they didn't enjoy his work?

At least then they'd know he was making progress and hadn't abandoned it.

Or, taking an even sillier tack, what if the next book revealed in 100 pages that all the horrible nasty stuff that's happened so far was just a dream and the Riverlands really are a happy peaceful land that's going to work together smoothly against the coming Winter?
Do readers have any right to be upset about that?

Worked for Dallas, right? ;P

These conversations always seem to use, I don't know what, legal terms like owe and right, when that's just not the sort of relationship authors and readers have. I enjoyed the hell out of Vurt by Jeff Noon, but thought Pollen sucked like a vacuum cleaner, so I didn't read the rest of the series, and I felt that was the appropriate response to my disappointment. I think Matt Ruff is an entertaining writer, and I wish he'd publish more often than once a decade (fine, he'd did better than than in the 2000s, but time will tell on the 2010s) but that enjoyment of his work doesn't contain any obligation aside from the one that I have to myself to read books that I enjoy. That is, readers are going to be upset by whatever upsets them, but I don't know how relevant that is to what the author writes.


Or, only slightly more seriously, if GRRM produced 100 page books ten times as quickly as as he does 1,00 page books, would his readers owe it to him to buy the next book in the series, even if they didn't enjoy his work?

Edit: Oops that was supposed to follow BNW.


thejeff wrote:

Except, as I read Sutter's actual argument, he's talking about the fans being disappointed and thus not buying more of the authors books, which is bad for the author in question.

And if done widely enough bad for series and the industry in general. Good luck writing series if readers stop trusting that they'll get a complete story and start waiting until the series is complete before buying it.

There's also a big difference between a series of books that is one large story and a series of books that are each complete on their own, but feature the same characters or setting. While you might have loved to read another Master and Commander novel, it's not anything like as frustrating as leaving everything hanging where SoI&F is now.

If you're saying that GRRM would benefit from an editor who says, "George, at this point another series of POV chapters showing what a reeking hellhole the Riverlands are is just overkill," instead of, "George, given the performance of this series so far, you can just write whatever the hell you want to and rake in millions," I don't disagree. I couldn't help but laugh (pretty fricken ruefully) when I read the last chapters of book five and thought back to the afterword of book four, where GRRM said he had to split them into two volumes because saying To Be Continued halfway through would have been frustrating for his readers.

But, speaking as a failed amateur cartoonist with an unfinished minicomic epic sitting on the shelf next to my computer, I don't think authors owe their audience anything. The author gets to write whatever and however he wants to, and the audience gets to decide whether or not to keep reading his work, and that's the ballgame. I really don't think GRRM's slow creative process is the start of an industry-ruining slippery slope.


I don't know, it doesn't bother me if an author keeps writing about the same characters and/or setting until they die.

O'Brian died with an uncompleted Master and Commander novel; I've got the published rough drafts of Herge's last volume of Tintin; Not be morbid, but I assume the same thing will happen with C.J. Cherryh's Foreigner series, and I'm gonna keep enjoying that one until she keels over at her word processor.

I suppose there's an implicit promise to finish a series you publish the first volume of, but I feel like Sutter's judgement is colored by the fact that he works for a company that sells its products through subscriptions. If you write a book and never finish the sequel, your fans will be disappointed, but if someone buys a subscription and you only deliver one book, that's legally actionable. It's just a different set of obligations.


This fall's treat: Pumpkin IPA! :P


I'm pretty sure my dog looks at me and thinks, "That dude took a whole lifetime to reach maturity? Did he spend all that time learning how not to roll around in garbage and have a really great time?"

Personally, I role play elves who adventure with humans as doing something similar to running the Iditarod. They depend on the humans around them, and the relationship's about as equitable as humanly (elvenly?) possible, but different rate of maturation is the least of the differences between them.


thejeff wrote:
Snorter wrote:

OR for having Stealth as a trained skill.

You got one, or you got all? Same difference.
And if the target is trained in Perception, or has any situational advantage whatsoever, the whole description is for nothing, whether you had one benefit, two, or a dozen. All cancelled out.

Given that any PC who intends to be stealthy, such as Rogue or Ranger, will automatically get 1 instance of advantage from their class...why bother trying for more?

What am I missing?

Wait. You get advantage for having a trained skill?

Did I miss something that huge? I've only got the Basic document, but I don't see it.

Trained just gives you your proficiency bonus as far as I can tell.

At 9th level the basic Rogue archetype Thief gives you advantage on Stealth at half speed, which really suggests to me that you don't always have it.

That's right, Jeff, you get proficiency in trained skills, not advantage. Inspiration (page 35 Basic) goes into the "RP your way to Advantage" approach, but given that Inspiration doesn't stack, I've found it a better ideal to bankroll inspiration and try to gain Advantage situationally.


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. . .Dude, if you mix up a Frenchman and a German, they'll join forces to beat you up for not knowing the difference, and World War Two. In my experience, no one cares if you identify as european-american, french-american or german-american, but it's boorish (not Beor-ish, different thing) to say, "You're african-american, that dude's hispanic-american, and I'm just american."


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. . . Felix Heathcliff Garfield?


Freehold DM wrote:
Racism can be obvious, but it's more dangerous when it's subtle. That's just my experience, though.

I don't disagree; subtle racism is certainly harder to tease apart and deal with, and I say that as a patrician New England WASP; if it weren't for subtle discrimination, I wouldn't have any cultural identity at all! :P

I mean honestly, having introduced the term majority privilege, now I'm thinking that white privilege is a different thing, and that both should be defined, but I don't have the energy to dance around so many hot button terms this early in the morning.


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Freehold DM wrote:
BigDTBone wrote:
Simon Legrande wrote:
Frankly, as a white male, I find the idea of "white privilege" offensive. Especially the damned if you do, damned if you don't thinking behind it.
You're in good company. People who aren't white find the idea offensive too.
While I think white privilege is a thing, I also think the concept is a very crude, unfinshed bludgeon when on such a sensitive topic an obsidian scalpel is needed.

Y'know, I've been think that majority privilege might be a better phrase since the last thread on this subject.

I've also gotta say that, having read the CNN article (and I'm going to quote here, but I hope the profanity filter is working) however much of an eye-opener an minority majority experience is, calling black people pickaninnies and Puerto Ricans spics, or wiping off a soda can because you don't know if a black person touched it are not subtle examples of racism. I mean, there are members of my extended family who are that racist, but they're not confused about what they're doing.


. . . That wasn't the alley I was talking about, I promise. :)


Limey, have you heard of a book called The Iron Dream? It sort of combines the best (I use that word advisedly) parts of Gor with a fascist rip-off of Throngor, as written by Adolf Hitler if he'd set his sights on writing pulp science fiction instead of world domination. It's a pretty weird reading experience, but it might be right up your alley.


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Not to derail the thread, but there are plenty of stories that don't have a bar for fantasy or science fiction. Ordinary People, for instance, ain't no ray guns or magic swords in that one.


Buri wrote:
There is *a* PDF option. It's just not the full PHB but still enough to form an opinion about the game itself and its design philosophy.

I'm curious as to whether the Basic pdf will contain enough info to play/run the various setting books and other supplements. Given that the various class archetypes are described as one option of archetype in Basic, rather than a "Basic class" which functions as an archetype once you get to the PHB, I think it will. If so, it will be possible to buy Dark Sun (or whichever) and play it with Basic until some archetype for a PHB class is so awesomely awesome that you buy the PHB to fulfill the desperate nerd yearning in your heart.

Um, I meant to say that I think having a free pdf as entry level D&D rather than a shoddily made cheap paperback is a good idea.


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Now it seems like everyone is just fixating on how many cosplay Nazis there were at GenCon, and whether or not GenCon endorses Nazis, which is sort of a non-starter for a reasonable conversation. (I'm pretty sure it wasn't a majority of the attendees, and that GenCon doesn't; I doubt that's a surprise to anyone reading this.)


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Actually, given that no one is talking about how super hot, wealthy blond actress are taking jobs away from americans, but every one disapproves of the icky immigrants of color who steal the manual labor careers from real americans, I'm not sure it is a non sequitur.

Actually actually, I think the disparity George writes about and Theron's dual citizenship are both symptomatic of a problem that GenCon exhibits, rather than causes, and problems like that require generational solutions. I also think that RPGs as a whole, and specifically in the cases of Paizo (as the industry leader) and WotC (as the producer of the most recognized brand name), are inclusive to a degree that "Gencon has race problem" is a simplistic statement.


Adding to the derail, is Theron African-American? I haven't heard that she's gained U.S. citizenship; as far as I know she's just South African, and therefore African.


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What I notice about this discussion is that GenCon is expected to solve the problems of institutional racism in isolation of the institutions themselves changing, which strikes me as about as reasonable as not carrying an umbrella because you don't want it to rain. I'm not trying to argue with A.A.George's experience or observation; I, too, think that the numbers of minority service staff as compared to minority attendees are very telling. However, it seems to me that the headline could have easily as read, "This year's GenCon is no more racist than baseline U.S. society, and given the history and stereotypes of the hobby, that's progress!"


Given how many times he said Tor.com, I feel like Correia has issues with that website/publisher, or possibly the author of the article he's responding to. I think the established RPG companies (yes, I mean most of the GenCon exhibitors) are more inclusionary than exclusionary, and beyond that, I don't know what to tell you.


Two and a half consecutive hours? Isn't that like your whole monthly allotment in the UK?


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Diffan wrote:
memorax wrote:
Diffan wrote:


But for some, the mechanical choices were paralyzing or otherwise unwanted. They didn't want to wade through lots of options and stuff and they just wanted to sit down and play. Can't really blame them other than their desire to NOT want a robust option system yet desire the "best" options that were there.

Seconded. Players want to make characters asap. If it means less choices than so be it. I don't agree with that type of philosophy yet understand it.

Couldn't they have also created "packages" for those who don't want to bother with the option minutia? I mean, if someone wants to play a "Knight", there could've been a simple "make these your best scores with this background and class" rather than removing all the other things that someone could take ala-carté. Instead we get two levels of "meh" until most classes first big choice in career path occurs at 3rd level. I know I can always just start at 3rd level but I feel zero-level or pre-level rules would've fit the bill FAR easier.

Diff, how different would those be from the quick build entries that are already included with every class? If you follow those, the only choices you're required to make are race and class. As for two levels of "meh," I'm a grognard who thinks Fantasy Viet Nam is a feature not a bug, so "meh" me up! :P


Mykull wrote:

WH00T ! ! !

"Adventure Gaming" was just approved as an elective for me to teach for the coming school year ! ! !

It will be open to 5th - 8th graders, but the class is capped at six students and with 8th grade getting to choose first, it'll probably fill with older students first.

I'll do Shackled City because I've already run that 1.5 times and am very familiar with it.

As far as lessons, here are what I'll require:
( 1 ) Pupils will keep a character journal of the adventure as it progresses. Each quarter will culminate in students cooperating to write a story of the adventure so far.
( 2 ) Pupils will be required to read fantasy novels. Chronicles of Narnia, Harry Potter, Wheel of Time, Tolkein, Ann MacCaffrey, Robert E. Howard, R.A. Salvatore, etc. All books are subject to my approval.

In class, I'll ask questions like, "Okay, the DC is 15, and your skill check is 7. What do you have to roll on a d20 to succeed and what is your probability of success?" But I'll also be asking them to use context clues to draw conclusions about interactions with npc's, cooperate to solve problems, analyze and solve those problems.

Now, community, how do I grade this class?
A reading log and their journal is one obvious way.
Their cooperation/citizenship will also factor into it.
Should their level matter?
Should I quiz them on vocabulary? Rules?

I don't think level should matter, but given that you'll only have six students, I don't see how there could be any level disparity to gradethem on. (Or maybe I've misunderstood the question?)

No one ever went wrong with a vocab quiz, and rules are a perfect opportunity to test reading comprehension, like math word problems, but with a much more engaging subject than two trains heading towards each other from different cities.

Anyhow, this is great news; congratulations! :)


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Treppa wrote:
Read 'Heart of Darkness', 'Pride and Prejudice', 'Sense and Sensibility', and have moved on to 'Agnes Grey'. I need to return to 'Moby Dick' and 'Heart of Darkness' though, because I'm finding what I read affects how I write. I'm sure Wayfinder doesn't need the story of a poor but virtuous and spirited half-orc girl's adventures with beaux and balls.

I'd read it; Hell, we may have just welcomed a new cast member to the halls of Manse Dice!


Ganryu wrote:
This might be a stupid question as I haven't read through the entire basic guide, but how are NPCs created? Do they obey standard character creation rules?

At this point there's a list of generic NPCs in DM Basic, with a section on customizing them with racial abilities and whatnot. The NPC statblocks don't list class or level, but they all (Mage, Priest or Knight) have a d8 hit die, and the proficiency to hit dice advancement doesn't appear to line up with PC advancement. I assume (well, maybe "really hope" is a better description) from scratch rules will be in the DMG.


James Jacobs wrote:
Winfred wrote:
Erik Mona wrote:
Samy wrote:
Well, if this product sells ten times the average Campaign Setting book, I'm sure we'll eventually get an Ultimate Technology.

Me too.

....Any chance of Unspeakable Futures? ;)

Not unless I sell it to Paizo.

I've already kind of done that with my fantasy homebrew setting. I'm not yet 100% sure I wanna do it with my postapocalypitc homebrew setting.

No insult, but if you had to ballpark it, how many genre-ready homebrew settings would you say you had exactly? :P


Dream no longer! The 5e DMG will contain variant rules for different edition play styles. I have no idea how well it will emulate those versions of the game (and a lot of the feelings on that will probably vary table to table) but it's been confirmed as part of the contents.


thejeff wrote:
memorax wrote:

While I don't agree with Scott on everything. I do think unlike many posters on the boards he tends to be more rational and logical than most. Like it or not he is correct. Legally Wotc were in the right. Drivethru had no business selling the PDFs if they were not allowed. Morally not that much. Except morals don't pay the bills at the end of the day. Nor a accepted form of currency at any bank.

Business is not FAIR. That's why we have the 995 vs the 1%. Do I wish it were different yes. I don't think it's ever going to change. I would have done the same thing with the PDFs. I would have given a week at most three days. Then pulled the pdfs.

And when a business screws me over, even if it's in a perfectly legal fashion, I reserve the right to be upset about and not give them my business anymore. That, even more than the letter of the law, is how you get businesses to behave well.

I don't disagree with any of that, Jeff, but I don't think emotional conditions like trust and betrayal enter into informed consumer behavior. I mean, you can support whoever you choose, but giving a corporation enough trust that they're even in a position where betrayal is possible is playing with fire, y'know? I'm saying all the reason you might or might not trust a human being aren't how a business functions.


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A lot; cases, not bottles. :P


Sort of, Marcus, but "willful evil" also means that, so long as the Paladin doesn't say ". . .And I'm doing that just for the sake of evilness!" then she's probably on pretty safe ground. I'd just roll untrained on Survival as many times as I could before I considered killing and eating a fellow PC.


Or equip a Ring of Sustenance, I guess; this whole conversation could have been avoided if Create Food and Water was on the Pally spell list!


thejeff wrote:
Tequila Sunrise wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Cardinal Chunder wrote:
eating tofu is Evil
No, no, no, making other people eat tofu is Evil. Eating it yourself is just a bit odd. ;)

Eating unseasoned tofu is definitely odd.

Eating seasoned and stir-fried tofu is delicious!

It's not bad if you fry it in bacon grease!

In a world with intelligent, ambulatory plants like Golarion, I really don't think vegetarianism has anything to with morality; there are probably gnoll tribes that regard vegepygmies as a delicacy because they scream all the more shrilly. :P


What about turpentine, though? All that requires is distillation, so alchemical, sure, but perfectly preindustrial.

Really, I'm agreeing with TheJeff, here; you can reflavor it as whatever you want to, but that's how oil works mechanically in 5E, and the price per flask is listed right there in the equipment chapter. Mind you, I'm fine with DMs tricking out the equipment list if they want to.


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JoeJ wrote:

You might want to have more than one bag, though, unless you're planning to spend most of your time picking up marbles.

So long as the DM doesn't require me to make the saves to avoid the penalties while picking up the caltrops etc, I'm more than willing to spend the time. The oil's consumable, but that's cool, I can't see a problem with adventuring with a backpack full of oil flasks while the wizard spams Fire Bolt. Should be fine.


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To hell with it it, I'm just gonna outfit myself with 1 bag of "ball bearings" and 4 bags of caltrops, and rules lawyer whoever's DM-ing that night into double saves for monsters to even approach me!

Edit: Hey, wait, There's AoE rules for that oil that's way to viscous to dry after a minute, too . . . :P


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See? Marbles!


James Jacobs wrote:
Weird metaphor complete.

Weird metaphor? I'm pretty sure that happened to me on a summer job I worked in high school. :P


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Try harder guys, you still haven't come close to the WotC board derail about how the equipment entry for oil says it dries after a minute, when oil is way to viscous to even evaporate I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY'RE CLAIMING THEY PROOFREAD THIS THING!!

(Yes, it really happened.)


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Pan wrote:
Hitdice wrote:

Not to quibble over the Concentration issue, but list of feat names released this week contained one called War Caster. I'm guessing it'll deal with the DC somehow. Well, and few more things, given the super feats we saw in the playtest.

Never mind concentration checks, how about death saves: unmodified DC 10 rolls on a d20 are terrifying!

Yeah some people are already calling feat tax on the war caster. Be interesting to see how it plays out once the PHB hits the shelf.

I've heard those calls, but given how few of the playtest feats had prerequisites, I don't think feat tax is really an accurate description. I mean, if the choice you have to make is between a stat increase increase and a feat, rather than between an immediately cool, useful feat and a nigh useless feat that's a prerequisite for something cool two or three feats later on in your level advancement, I don't think that's a feat tax so much as having to decide whether you're happier with +2 Con or War Caster. Of course, I don't know anything about War Caster beyond the name, so it may be a really obvious choice; at this point I'm sticking with, "We'll see."

Edit: ZOMG, back in the playtest ball bearing were 100 to the gp, and I hadn't even noticed the difference! To hell with everything, at my table it's just a reasonably sized sack of marbles, same mechanical effect.


Not to quibble over the Concentration issue, but list of feat names released this week contained one called War Caster. I'm guessing it'll deal with the DC somehow. Well, and few more things, given the super feats we saw in the playtest.

Never mind concentration checks, how about death saves: unmodified DC 10 rolls on a d20 are terrifying!


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When I was in college, one of my room-mates filched a can of ether from the science lab. We kept it in the closet all year, where it whispered our names as seductively as that slot machine in the episode of "The Twilight Zone" they made out of that Harlan Ellison story, but we never had the balls to actually sample it.


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Yeah, I didn't want to ruin it for you by even mentioning that a spoiler might be required, but at some point you were talking about how it was the it the only Irving movie you liked, maybe because you hadn't see the book, and I was all, "Wow, he's going to be really surprised by how much goes on after Wally gets back."

Don't bogart that ether can, Doodles!


James Jacobs wrote:
Your nerd rage is showing.

What can I tell you, it's the only kind of rage I have.

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