New Star Trek Series Premieres January 2017


Television

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Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

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I'm not thrilled with the new look of the Klingons. Aside from that it looked decent. Do we know if it's episodic in nature or if it's serialized like most shows nowadays? That could be the biggest change from previous Trek.


JoelF847 wrote:
Do we know if it's episodic in nature or if it's serialized like most shows nowadays? That could be the biggest change from previous Trek.

The wiki says:

Quote:
Star Trek: Discovery is set to debut on CBS with a two-part premiere in "fall" 2017, before moving to All Access. The first season will consist of 15 episodes.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

That doesn't really answer though if it's one big story, or if most episodes are standalone.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

JoelF847 wrote:
That doesn't really answer though if it's one big story, or if most episodes are standalone.

It's going to need to be serialized. Remember, it is the hook for CBS's All Access service. They will need views to want the next episode.

DungeonmasterCal wrote:
I'm actually pretty jazzed about it being a prequel. The more the different series advanced it seemed nothing was impossible, even time travel became no problem. And the way Janeway and the Voyager crew totally emasculated the Federation's greatest threat, the Borg, was a total waste of time for me.

I don't agree. Making this a prequel was a mistake in my opinion.

Here are a couple of reasons:

  • Miniskirts: At the time (the late 1960s), the miniskirt was both fashionable, and seen as a symbol of liberation, but it is not seen so now. If the series runs too long, the uniform will need to change to the mini-dress of The Original Series for continuity purposes.
  • Klingons: The Klingons of this setting should look human. Once again, this is a limitation of The Original Series. At the time this wasn't seen as a problem; nowadays, it is rightly seen as a racist caricature.
  • Aliens: The series would also need to be careful not to introduce too many new species into Starfleet. Spock was rare, the only non-human on the Enterprise. Populating the ship with non-humans makes sense later in the timeline, but this would be too soon.
If you are going to ignore these factors, then why bother calling it Star Trek?

Dark Archive Vendor - Fantasiapelit Tampere

This would make so much more sense to be a sequel series to the movies rather than the old tv show. Following the "Kelvin Timeline" would explain all those three points above.

Also, I really like how this looks. Uniforms looks great, Michelle Yeoh is always a pleasure and I actually kinda like the new Klingon look. Can't say surely about the ship yet- design looks ok, but the interiors could use a more color.

Sovereign Court

"Lord Fyre wrote:

If you are going to ignore these factors, then why bother calling it Star Trek?

They didn't; Its called Star Trek Discovery.

Liberty's Edge

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Lord Fyre wrote:


DungeonmasterCal wrote:
I'm actually pretty jazzed about it being a prequel. The more the different series advanced it seemed nothing was impossible, even time travel became no problem. And the way Janeway and the Voyager crew totally emasculated the Federation's greatest threat, the Borg, was a total waste of time for me.

I don't agree. Making this a prequel was a mistake in my opinion.

Here are a couple of reasons:

  • Miniskirts: At the time (the late 1960s), the miniskirt was both fashionable, and seen as a symbol of liberation, but it is not seen so now. If the series runs too long, the uniform will need to change to the mini-dress of The Original Series for continuity purposes.
  • Klingons: The Klingons of this setting should look human. Once again, this is a limitation of The Original Series. At the time this wasn't seen as a problem; nowadays, it is rightly seen as a racist caricature.
  • Aliens: The series would also need to be careful not to introduce too many new species into Starfleet. Spock was rare, the only non-human on the Enterprise. Populating the ship with non-humans makes sense later in the timeline, but this would be too soon.
If you are going to ignore these factors, then why bother calling it Star Trek?

Well, I'd point our that Star Trek: enterprise was a prequel and they successfully dealt with all three of those issues ...

In fact, within Star Trek cannon, I guess this new series is actually a sequel to Star Trek: Enterprise and then a prequel to the Kirk era original Star Trek


I really don't like the changes they made for the sake of "artistic license". I'm really big on Trek canon and Star Fleet history (I know it's fiction but I dig it). The uniforms are wrong for the period and I hate hate hate the new Klingon look and their uniforms. They look like something from some bad 80s sci fi movie.

Liberty's Edge

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DungeonmasterCal wrote:
I really don't like the changes they made for the sake of "artistic license". I'm really big on Trek canon and Star Fleet history (I know it's fiction but I dig it). The uniforms are wrong for the period and I hate hate hate the new Klingon look and their uniforms. They look like something from some bad 80s sci fi movie.

I tend to agree, especially with the bizarre and inexplicable new Klingon look. Plus, I wasn't all that impressed with the trailer

Plus, I'm still irked that they want to force folks to pay for this new channel in order to see the series past the premier.

I am a HUGE Star Trek fan, but I'm not at all excited about this

Sovereign Court

I hear ya. I hope CBS all access has a free trial. I'll probably just binge the series (if I like it enough) and never sub up.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

DungeonmasterCal wrote:
I really don't like the changes they made for the sake of "artistic license". I'm really big on Trek canon and Star Fleet history (I know it's fiction but I dig it). The uniforms are wrong for the period and I hate hate hate the new Klingon look and their uniforms. They look like something from some bad 80s sci fi movie.

And ... setting the series Post-Dominion war neatly addresses most of my objections (though I am not thrilled with the Klingon look).


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Paramount isn't going to undermine their rebooted movie franchise by setting a new TV show in the "old" post-Kelvin timeline. But they still want old school Trekkers to tune in. That leaves them with few options in the timeline to try and please both sides.

I'm not saying I agree with their decision (I hate the rebooted Trek idea), but that's probably their logic.

Sovereign Court

Dominar Rygel XVI wrote:
Wow, this looks pretty damn good. (first trailer)

I'll have to watch this again but my first reaction was... meh.


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Callous Jack wrote:
Dominar Rygel XVI wrote:
Wow, this looks pretty damn good. (first trailer)
I'll have to watch this again but my first reaction was... meh.

I've been hearing constant disappointing and bad news about this show since it was first announced, so the trailer reassured me that I don't think it'll be terrible. The Klingon redesign doesn't bother me at all, and I'm super-psyched to see Michelle Yeoh and Sonequa Martin-Green in big roles.

Sovereign Court

Star Trek (TV) has never been something you can accurately represent in a trailer. I was bummed when I heard the new time period/storyline per season idea was a rumor. I was bummed when I heard they were, yet again, going back to pre-kirk. Though the trailer at least makes the series look great, so who knows? Cant knock it until I rock it.

Scarab Sages

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Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Why is everyone (you know who you are) obsessed that everything in the new series must be as close to the original as possible just because it happens close to that time period?

First, TOS was the springboard from which all the rest came. This is a new era. Let it be its own show, not a retread. Be happy that we get new stuff after 50 years.

Second, TOS was done on a shoe-string budget. The uniforms were made from the cheapest materials available that would look good on color TV (which was just becoming widely available to every household at the time).

Third, the alien makeup was done on the cheap. Almost all aliens were humanoid and made using body paint and wigs. The few exceptions include the Gorn, Tellerites and Horta. Rating them, I would give the Gorn a 3.5, the Tellerites a 2 and the Horta a 4, just because it was not humanoid (even though it was essentially a big rug).


Marc Radle wrote:
DungeonmasterCal wrote:
I really don't like the changes they made for the sake of "artistic license". I'm really big on Trek canon and Star Fleet history (I know it's fiction but I dig it). The uniforms are wrong for the period and I hate hate hate the new Klingon look and their uniforms. They look like something from some bad 80s sci fi movie.

I tend to agree, especially with the bizarre and inexplicable new Klingon look. Plus, I wasn't all that impressed with the trailer

Plus, I'm still irked that they want to force folks to pay for this new channel in order to see the series past the premier.

I am a HUGE Star Trek fan, but I'm not at all excited about this

I know what you mean. I'll definitely watch the two part premier when they broadcast it on CBS, but doubt it could possibly be so awesome that I'll subscribe to anything.

Not to get grognard-ey, but I assume HUGE fans such as yourselves have seen Star Trek Continues? Episode 2, "Lolani" really blew me away.


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I love Star Trek Continues. There are only 3 episodes left before they shut it down, and that makes me sad. They've done such an excellent job of recreating the original show, even getting writers and actors from TOS to make appearances, as well as cameos by other modern actors who wanted to be a part of it.

And even with my being a really huge Trek fan, I won't get to watch the premier because I don't have cable or satellite television (just a Roku and things like Netflix). Maybe it'll be on Hulu, but with the advent of their CBS All Access streaming channel I doubt they'll put it on that channel. And I'm not going to subscribe to All Access just to watch one show, so I doubt I get to see it all. Which doesn't bother me.


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DungeonmasterCal wrote:
I love Star Trek Continues. There are only 3 episodes left before they shut it down, and that makes me sad. They've done such an excellent job of recreating the original show, even getting writers and actors from TOS to make appearances, as well as cameos by other modern actors who wanted to be a part of it.

This is the first I'd heard that they're shutting it down; now I'm upset, and a vulcan lecture about logic won't calm my nerves, Mr. Spock!

@ Charles Scholz: It's not that everything must be as close to the original series as possible. Its just that I know what the Starfleet uniforms from that period look like, and the costume design team working on Star Trek Discovery either doesn't know or doesn't care. That's not necessarily a deal breaker for me, but it's no deal maker either.


Quote:
That doesn't really answer though if it's one big story, or if most episodes are standalone.

It's one big story. The producers were pretty consistent on that, that the series introduces a mystery in the first episode and a continuing story that explores that mystery right up to the end of the season (although there may be scope for a few stand-alone-ish episodes here and there) and potentially lead into a second season. That was Bryan Fuller's plan and, although he left before the show really got going, that is the plan they're still following.


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Fox's new series, "Orville", looks more interesting to me than this. And I'm not a Seth McFarlane fan.


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DungeonmasterCal wrote:
Fox's new series, "Orville", looks more interesting to me than this. And I'm not a Seth McFarlane fan.

The other day I happened to tune into Galaxyquest right as it started, and I ended up watching the whole movie while I was supposed to be mowing the lawn or whatever. Galaxyquest is a strange, strange movie: it's a parody and a pastiche, which somehow manages to respect the fans while portraying fans as hyper-emotional squid aliens or high school nerds who take a cancelled TV show way too seriously. It's also maybe the most emotionally genuine "Star Trek" movie I've even seen in my entire life. Orville seems like it's going to capture the same spirit. Parody but not exploitation, I guess?

Sovereign Court

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@hitdice I know McFarland is a huge Trek fan. I think he even had a few tiny roles on one of the series earlier in his career. I think you have the right of it.

Anyone else notice the obvious B5 reference too?


B5 reference? I missed it.


As long as the new show explains how the pure blooded klingons got usurped by the partially genetically modified hybrids, it fits the timeline.

It looks a lot better than enterprise so far.

Dark Archive Vendor - Fantasiapelit Tampere

Hitdice wrote:
DungeonmasterCal wrote:
Fox's new series, "Orville", looks more interesting to me than this. And I'm not a Seth McFarlane fan.
The other day I happened to tune into Galaxyquest right as it started, and I ended up watching the whole movie while I was supposed to be mowing the lawn or whatever. Galaxyquest is a strange, strange movie: it's a parody and a pastiche, which somehow manages to respect the fans while portraying fans as hyper-emotional squid aliens or high school nerds who take a cancelled TV show way too seriously. It's also maybe the most emotionally genuine "Star Trek" movie I've even seen in my entire life. Orville seems like it's going to capture the same spirit. Parody but not exploitation, I guess?

Mel Brooks has said, that in order to make a parody of something you first must love it. Otherwise it's just hateful. Galaxy Quest is a darn masterpiece, and the makers are huge Star Trek fans.


My list of what I think the new Trek shows needs to do to succeed imo:

Make the episodes flow with one another

Drop the 1960s style of storytelling. Having epsiode 50 tie into 110 then 233 is good and all but it's confusing to non-hardcore fans of Star Trek. They need to be interconnected like Babylon 5. Beyond the first season of B5 you could see the story progress over the seasons of the show. Rather than the disjointed, confusing jumble of episodes that is the standard for Trek shows.

The human element

The Orville is a good example. They may serve on board a ship yet they are also actual people in the uniforms. They are friends and some actually have relationships. Star Trek characters to me at least come off as stereotypes imo. No relationships or friendships. Or if it does it's a random episode of no consequence and then it gets buried under the rug. Their is a episode from Voyager where two characters are quarantined on a planet because of disease. The male character declares his love to the family character. A cure is found they go back to the ship and nothing happens.

Have benchmarks for the setting

If for example their is the Borg let them be the top villain of the setting. Earlier Star Trek began getting out of control with that. First the Borg are on top of the food chain but no then Species 8472 but no something else. It cheapens the villains and even worse if the Borg can't handle them how the hell does everyone else without a written Deux Ex Machina in the script which many fans like myself detest.

Established Working Tech that works in the setting should remain so

If it's one thing that bothered me with Star Trek TNG it's how suddenly and for no apparent good reason Warp Drive speeds past Warp 5 somehow damaged space. Years and years of using it safely and no notices. It felt like a hamfisted, overly obvious attempt to nerf the abilites of the Warp Drive. Simply because some writers had to tell their pet stories.


There are a few issues with that, that I would like to address:
RE: Interconnectedness. If the casual viewer would be confused by a reference in 110 to something from 50 9which would almost certainly include exposition to explain) - how much more confusing would it be if they had to watch every episode to know what is going on?
Casual Viewer: "Wait, that guy is evil. Why is he working with them?"
Fan: "Oh. No, he wasn't evil. It was..."

I enjoy interconnectedness. But episodic, unconnected stories will always be better if the showrunner wants the show to be accessible to the general audience, or to have potential for audience growth.

The Warp 5 thing was primarily a hamfisted environmental message. Regardless of what you feel about climate change. It is a subject that should be talked about. It is probably one that needs action taken on. And Star Trek could and should be involved in establishing that dialogue. But the analogy, the method they are using, is terrible.
And it was so bad, that while TNG paid lip service to the 55MPH speed limit for the rest of its run, DS9 basically ignored it. And Voyager had a magic warp drive that doesn't pollute subspace.


It's not like Species 8472 were introduced in Next Gen the next episode after the Borg. The Borg got to be the scariest threat for almost all of Next Gen. Voyager introduced 8472, and I think it's fine if sequel series play with the assumptions of prior series.

Sovereign Court

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Im hoping Discovery is more like DS9 than any other Trek. Im pretty sure episodic television is dead so folks dont have to worry about that.


Discovery is very serialised, but it sounds like a couple of episodes push the serialised elements into the background for a story-of-the-week in the foreground. So the structure is more like the first half of Babylon 5 or the latter seasons of DS9, or maybe Season 3 of Enterprise. I think that's fine. I think having a very tight episode-to-episode serialisation doesn't work unless you only have 6-8 episodes or so. Stretching that serialisation across 13-16 episodes is really hard to do and often just doesn't work (see: most of the Netflix Marvel shows and The Walking Dead).


I don't have any way to watch it so you guys be sure to post your impressions of it. To be honest I'm a pretty hard core Trekfan who is not really interested in this series, but I'd still like to see what people think.


What I meant in my previous post is they need to avoid the series cliffhanger, opening episode of a new season where everything gets solved and wrapped up in a nice neat little package.

If they do come across a powerful enemy let them research, train and adapt new tactics over the season. Not the usual one-two episode "the good guys win everything is resolved" that Trek is know for.

Go the Babylon 5 route:

Defeating the Shadow Ships:

In the later seasons they come across enemy alien ships that move, react and have more powerful weaponry than everyone else. While the pilots of those ships seemed to anticipate attacks coming from enemies.

Over time in the series they find out:

-The ships are organic living creatures so can react fast than the average spaceship

- Were piloted by telepaths (not sure about that) or at least a living occupant that functioned like a living CPU. So they can read minds and react faster than a enemy ship

-The average weaponry was MUCH more powerful than anything everyone else has at least first.A fully functioning ship never misses.

- A secondary weapon that allows the vessel to fire into a active hyperspace jump by another vessel causing it to destablize and destroy any ship inside

Over the seasons of the show humanity acquires their own versions from a allied (at first) alien race with as powerful weaponry. They also recruit their own telepaths to freeze and knock offline the living CPUs. It took time and not the insta-fix that is typical of too many Star Trek episodes


GreenDragon1133 wrote:


The Warp 5 thing was primarily a hamfisted environmental message. Regardless of what you feel about climate change. It is a subject that should be talked about. It is probably one that needs action taken on. And Star Trek could and should be involved in establishing that dialogue. But the analogy, the method they are using, is terrible.
And it was so bad, that while TNG paid lip service to the 55MPH speed limit for the rest of its run, DS9 basically ignored it. And Voyager had a magic warp drive that doesn't pollute subspace.

I did not mind the Warp 5 limitation so much. As the fact that they had to have essentially have a character commit suicide to prove how dangerous Warp Travel is. Simply because Picard refused to take their research findings at face value. It was a brother and sister research time. Angry that they refuse to simply their findings. She gets in their ship causes the warp engines to overload causing a subspace rift. It was a dumb character death imo. What was meant to showcase the character as a martyr came off as a wasted death. I'm glad DS9 ignored it that limitation because it was kind of dumb imo. It's not to say I don't think climate change is important. Far from it. They are better ways to get the point across and that episode was not one of them. Not to mention I want to see ships go to warp. As do many other fans, why put a limitation on one of the most popular aspects of the show.


Just watched the first episode on CBS

Kind of annoyed that the episode had zero resolution. I know they want a cliff hanger to entice people onto their new player platform, but this just annoyed.

There are a few Trek trappings, but for the most part you could cut out or revamp a few pieces and it would be an entirely nontrek related show.

Sovereign Court

Can you catch the pilot without CBS all access?


Pan wrote:
Can you catch the pilot without CBS all access?

I did. My reaction was kind of "meh." Didn't like the new look for the Klingons, didn't like their bizarre funeral custom involving coffin placement.

Didn't like the XO going from dissenting to publicly insubordinate to actually committing mutiny in the space of a few minutes, knowing that this character will be the Captain going forward.

Didn't like Science Officer Saru being portrayed as basically a coward. True, he's not a sniveling coward. Jonathan Harris' Dr. Smith he is not. Still, his advice never seems to vary from "we should get out of here."

Also not thrilled to have Sarek as a character. Geez, did no other Vulcan ever have any kind of interaction with a human in those days? Spock never mentioned Sybok until Star Trek V (and never again after that, thank goodness) and now here's another person raised / mentored / sponsored / whatever for years by Sarek.

It's not like the show completely sucked. If it were going to continue on network or cable TV, I'd keep watching it long enough to give it a fair chance. It just didn't make a great first impression with me.

Sovereign Court

Klingons look ridiculous


Sarek all but disowned his biological son for joining the violent babby-killers (Starfleet) instead of joining the Vulcan Science Academy. But he has a secret adopted human daughter that he is ok with joining?

That is the definition of Mary Sue.

Klingon funerary rites? Its a corpse, dispose of it, I'll take his boots.


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Yeah true once the soul leaves the body the Klingons could care less about the body.

Dark Archive

Saw it. Liked it far more than The Orville, that's for sure.


Uniforms and sets that find a design esthetic halfway between Enterprise and the Abramsverse? I would have preferred an reinterpretation of the Pike-era uniforms, but okay.

Holographic shipboard communication devices, even though we've only ever seen flatscreens in previous iterations of Trek? I can live with that.

A xeno-anthropologist who was orphaned in a Klingon attack but doesn't recognize a Klingon artifact? That's stupidest f&@~ing thing I've ever heard! It's bad writing which undercuts Michael Burnham's character on a very fundamental level, but whatever, she knows the Vulcan Nerve Pinch just to appeal to the nerd fanbase.

If this show were on broadcast, I'd DVR it, but it's not going to be the reason I subscribe to CBS All Access.


Saw the two-part pilot. Liked it enough to keep watching. I already subscribe to CBS All Access, primarily for the show Elementary.

Captain, sensors detect a phased quantum spoiler field:
I did not like that Sonequa Martin-Green's character stages an attempted mutiny in the first episode. Kinda weird plotting.

My biggest issue with the show was the heroes' final gambit to capture the Klingon leader: Why did they only send a two-man boarding party?? They would have needed at least a dozen heavily-armed people to pull that off, and they should have known that.

And I really liked Michelle Yoeh's character and the dynamic between her and Sonequa Martin-Green's, and I'm annoyed that they killed her off so soon. I wanted more of that. Of course, I don't think this show could have afforded to keep Yeoh on the payroll for more that two eps...


I think it was okay.

Throwing the established design for the Klingons out the window was a bad idea. It serves no purpose.

The script was servicable, although some of the lines were pretty clunky, especially all the exposition in the beginning. But the cast was good (except for head Klingon whose Klingon pronunctiation was like a bad imitation of Kirk's caricatured way of speaking; the other Klingons spoke much more fluently).

I did not have a problem with the burial rites. Considering these are basically extreme fundamentalist followers of Kahless, they could follow older practises than the rest of their people. Their different looks would also have made sense for that reason, but for some reason, consistency is not allowed.

I also think that Sarek's decision to send his ward to join Star Fleet made sense. She's a human, after all, and she did not qualify for the Vulcan Expedition Corps (?), so Star Fleet was the next logical option. Spock on the other hand qualified for the Science Academy, IIRC, and opted to join Star Fleet.

@Haladir: Spoilers!


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Fabius Maximus wrote:
The script was servicable, although some of the lines were pretty clunky, especially all the exposition in the beginning.

You know what you'll never hear anyone say in any Star Trek series, ever?

"I know, I read the mission brief." :P

Sovereign Court

Sorry, been out of this thread for a long time...

In Canada, they're gonna stream this show on "CraveTV" or something (this means I'm never watching this show - sorry, anything 'Star Trek' is not enough to make me want to pay a monthly fee to another Netflix copycat).

In other countries, how is it being streamed?


Fabius Maximus wrote:
Throwing the established design for the Klingons out the window was a bad idea.

Which established design? The one from the original Star Trek (TV, not movies), or the one from Next Generation, or the one from the recent movies?

Sovereign Court

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Matthew Downie wrote:
Fabius Maximus wrote:
Throwing the established design for the Klingons out the window was a bad idea.
Which established design? The one from the original Star Trek (TV, not movies), or the one from Next Generation, or the one from the recent movies?

Klingon Iconic = Worf


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Matthew Downie wrote:
Fabius Maximus wrote:
Throwing the established design for the Klingons out the window was a bad idea.
Which established design? The one from the original Star Trek (TV, not movies), or the one from Next Generation, or the one from the recent movies?
Klingon Iconic = Worf

So, the first redesign then.

Which was controversial when he first appeared.


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Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I think the "Worf design" was first introduced in 1979, in "Star Trek: The Motion Picture".

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