Pathfinder Battles Preview: Winter is Coming

Ice cold!

She makes a great female spellcaster player character,

Heck yeah I do!!!

and her dark blue color scheme makes her a perfect proxy for an enemy mystic.

I'm going to choose to take that as a compliment.

so we simply had to include Feiya's fox familiar, Daji, in the Reign of Winter set.

much wow. superb detail. so cute.

Sigh. When will I make an appearance? ;_;

Much sadness. Great details. So jealous.

We'll get to you eventually. But you're pretty close to the end of the line, honestly. :O

We'll get to you eventually. But you're pretty close to the end of the line, honestly. :O

*sniffs*

You've already been in all the sets to date! Nobody has noticed your mini though, you clever, sneaky ninja!

Man do I hope wizkids master faces in this set. Just these first two witches have such good faces they deserve justice.

I spoke to them about it today, so I hope so too! :)

We'll get to you eventually. But you're pretty close to the end of the line, honestly. :O

Awww!

And I was so hoping for a JADE REGENT set after 'Winter'.
I want me a non-piratey Tengu mini, and samurais and ninjas (especially the iconic ones).

Feiya is a welcome addition. And I love the Fox. Any chance to see more animal familiars and/or companions any time soon Eric?

One of the players in my group is hurting for a riding dog.
I sure would like to see an owl or a raven.

I adore Feiya and Daji. Just fantastic!

And, of course, you had to have Baba Yaga. Too bad you couldn't do a Hut on giant chicken legs. ;)

I wonder who the male iconic will be? Damiel or Balazar?
They're both non-human so either could fit!

I wish someone would call *me* Fox. :p

I adore Feiya and Daji. Just fantastic!

And, of course, you had to have Baba Yaga. Too bad you couldn't do a Hut on giant chicken legs. ;)

Fat Dragon Games just started a Kickstarter campaign for a new PDF terrain series, Ravenfell. Their first stretch goal? Baba Yaga's Hut, reached day one. If enough Pathfinders chime in, we could get the set ready in time for the minis arrival! :D

I'm so thrilled at the confluence of events! I've been wanting to play &/or run a campaign centred around Baba Yaga pretty much since my first game of D&D. I didn't want to run Reign of Winter until the minis were released, though, as they are the most important support for this AP {battlemaps & maptiles? Well, they are mostly snow, right? ;) }

I adore Feiya and Daji. Just fantastic!

And, of course, you had to have Baba Yaga. Too bad you couldn't do a Hut on giant chicken legs. ;)

The hut would've made an awesome case incentive! Although very niche, admittedly.

Pleased to see the iconics at the uncommon rarity. I'm not sure if I will be getting this set, so picking up singles for cheaper will be nice.

Please, WizKids, don't screw up Feiya. This set is off to a great start!

Please, WizKids, don't screw up Feiya. This set is off to a great start!

Agreed. I've not been buying more than a box or two here and there, because the quality has been all over the map, though better than DDM I hear.

The one iconic I've turned up so far, Lem, would have been my favourite mini, but he was ruined by a very poor paint job. And at $10 to replace the single, it just hasn't been worth it.

Mazra wrote:

I adore Feiya and Daji. Just fantastic!

And, of course, you had to have Baba Yaga. Too bad you couldn't do a Hut on giant chicken legs. ;)

The hut would've made an awesome case incentive! Although very niche, admittedly.

Unfortunately, even worse than being niche, it would actually be a lot trickier and more expensive to cast. D&D had one, years ago, but different concept entirely, and looks pretty ugly.

The Midgard Kickstarter (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/607885648/midgard-rpg-miniatures/posts /377579) tried to produce one that looks very like the one in Pathfinder, but they've run into tremendous production problems, and I'm not sure if they are going to be able to deliver on it at all.

Again, best bet is Fat Dragon's "Ravenfell" Kickstarter, or waiting until if/when Baba Yaga's hut is released to the masses. I'm not sure if that stretch goal is a campaign exclusive or not. It's worth speaking up!

There's this if you can find it.

We'll get to you eventually. But you're pretty close to the end of the line, honestly. :O

End of the ... line?

What?

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN, ERIK?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!

Among the last of the iconics that we will make.

After the iconics, of course, there's a long line of novel characters waiting for the pre-paint treatment. I'm just saying 55 figures per book would be a good start.

That kickstarter looks pretty neat. I've used some of their models before (a crypt and house both for RotRL) and they worked very well and were fun to construct. I think I will back it.

Among the last of the iconics that we will make.

Oh, whew. Okay. I can take that. Stops hyperventilating.

You might want to edit that statement to "current" iconics, though. Pretty soon you're going to have ten new iconics to fit into your miniature sets! :-)

There's this if you can find it.

Ahahaha... Thanks for that - I'd heard the rumour that such a thing existed, but couldn't find it.

I've always loved the story of Baba Yaga, and it's great to see people's different interpretations. True artists are the best :D

Too bad we're already on book 5 of Reign of Winter with my group! These would have come in handy about 8 months ago. They nonetheless look very nice.

I'm a little surprised that one of the iconics is slated at uncommon. Was it mostly because she could proxy as any other witch-y type character?

Iconics in Wrath of the Righteous are uncommon too, I guess they wanted more people to pull these characters, which makes sense since they are so iconic and all...

Now that we have a fox coming as a miniature, is it time to lay of the canine-looking minis for a while? Between Shadow Hounds, Hell Hounds, Yeth Hounds, Goblin Dogs, Wolves, and the Fox, it looks like we have plenty of "dog-like" minis.

-Skeld

Now that we have a fox coming as a miniature, is it time to lay of the canine-looking minis for a while? Between Shadow Hounds, Hell Hounds, Yeth Hounds, Goblin Dogs, Wolves, and the Fox, it looks like we have plenty of "dog-like" minis.

-Skeld

Honestly, I'd like them to produce an actual "Dog" dog mini before they're done with dogs. I'd even like one as a riding dog (in saddle) and another guard dog. There's not a lot out there prepainted for dogs; the only one I know about is the Dungeon Crawler mastiff.

Hooray for the witch and her fox!

Alright, I have to ask: Are we going to get Russian Infantry and Tank miniatures for in set? I don't see the Tank happening since it'd be huge, but still curious.

Now that we have a fox coming as a miniature, is it time to lay of the canine-looking minis for a while? Between Shadow Hounds, Hell Hounds, Yeth Hounds, Goblin Dogs, Wolves, and the Fox, it looks like we have plenty of "dog-like" minis.

-Skeld

Why? There are only 8 dog or dog-like minis (9 with Daji) in the Pathfinder Battles line and none since Shatterd Star (H&M had the wolf, RotRL had Goblin Dog, Yeth Hound, and Malfeskor [sp, the Bargest], We be Goblins added an additional Goblin Dog paint job, and Shattered Star added the Shadow Hound, Yeth Hound, and Hound of Tindalos). Even if you throw in the H&M werewolf and the 2 versions of the Goblin Commando on Goblin Dog it is still not an unreasonable number. Personally I'd like to see a Riding Dog, Guard Dog, Stray Dog and a couple of new (non-leaping) wolf sculpts. (Not all in one set mind you.) In fact the ONLY critter type I think they've worn out in the line right now is the evil outsider (And I like outsiders, but Wrath'll do it for me for the better part of a year or 2).

There are still a few demons I would love to see in the immediate future, the coloxus for example. Plus I'm still holding out for the huge ones, especially the Shemhazian demon. I think we pull also use some. Devils, divs, daemons etc.

I'm hoping we get a variety of fey in this one, the books have some great art and a fair number of fey.

I wish the fox was a little more animated in its pose.

THIS is kind of THE iconic fox pose.

I wish the fox was a little more animated in its pose.

THIS is kind of THE iconic fox pose.

Well he is a witch's familiar, I kind of think 'curled up in a small ball going, "please ignore me please ignore me"' might be more accurate.

Skeld wrote:

Now that we have a fox coming as a miniature, is it time to lay of the canine-looking minis for a while? Between Shadow Hounds, Hell Hounds, Yeth Hounds, Goblin Dogs, Wolves, and the Fox, it looks like we have plenty of "dog-like" minis.

-Skeld

Why? There are only 8 dog or dog-like minis (9 with Daji) in the Pathfinder Battles line and none since Shatterd Star (H&M had the wolf, RotRL had Goblin Dog, Yeth Hound, and Malfeskor [sp, the Bargest], We be Goblins added an additional Goblin Dog paint job, and Shattered Star added the Shadow Hound, Yeth Hound, and Hound of Tindalos). Even if you throw in the H&M werewolf and the 2 versions of the Goblin Commando on Goblin Dog it is still not an unreasonable number. Personally I'd like to see a Riding Dog, Guard Dog, Stray Dog and a couple of new (non-leaping) wolf sculpts. (Not all in one set mind you.) In fact the ONLY critter type I think they've worn out in the line right now is the evil outsider (And I like outsiders, but Wrath'll do it for me for the better part of a year or 2).

Why? Because, as you mention, there are already 8 or 9 sculpts of dog-like miniatures. I'd rather PFB focus on things of which we don't already have 8 or 9 sculpts.

-Skeld

After the iconics, of course, there's a long line of novel characters waiting for the pre-paint treatment. I'm just saying 55 figures per book would be a good start.

I failed at getting the Gen Con exclusive Varian from Reaper, much to my regret. You, sir, just made my week. :)

Leo_Negri wrote:

Skeld wrote:

Now that we have a fox coming as a miniature, is it time to lay of the canine-looking minis for a while? Between Shadow Hounds, Hell Hounds, Yeth Hounds, Goblin Dogs, Wolves, and the Fox, it looks like we have plenty of "dog-like" minis.

-Skeld

Why? There are only 8 dog or dog-like minis (9 with Daji) in the Pathfinder Battles line and none since Shatterd Star (H&M had the wolf, RotRL had Goblin Dog, Yeth Hound, and Malfeskor [sp, the Bargest], We be Goblins added an additional Goblin Dog paint job, and Shattered Star added the Shadow Hound, Yeth Hound, and Hound of Tindalos). Even if you throw in the H&M werewolf and the 2 versions of the Goblin Commando on Goblin Dog it is still not an unreasonable number. Personally I'd like to see a Riding Dog, Guard Dog, Stray Dog and a couple of new (non-leaping) wolf sculpts. (Not all in one set mind you.) In fact the ONLY critter type I think they've worn out in the line right now is the evil outsider (And I like outsiders, but Wrath'll do it for me for the better part of a year or 2).

Why? Because, as you mention, there are already 8 or 9 sculpts of dog-like miniatures. I'd rather PFB focus on things of which we don't already have 8 or 9 sculpts.

-Skeld

And yet there are 14 Dragons, 13 Goblins, 8 Elemntals, 5 Genies, A BUNCH of Humans (no I'm not going to take the time to count them all), 2 Fire Demons, 4 Succubus type Demons (5 if you count the Incubus), 4 Ogres, 3 or 4 Trolls, and yet this focus on the Dogs. Not disagreeing that we may have enough Canids for a bit, but I'd rather see more of that than another Dragon, Demon, Goblin, or Human at the moment. In general I am happy with whatever makes it into a set, however, even if I do have a bunch of mini's of a given type in PPM (and I have a collection that stretches back to MageKnight Alpha), simply because I know not everyone has that large a horde of mini's to choose from.

Incidentally, a couple more Canid's i could really use: Gnolls and Hyaenas, especially Gnolls dedicated to Lamashtu (and perhaps the Mother of Monsters herself) though I know these are not appropo to Reign of Winter.

Keep the good mini's coming, regardless of what they are ;-)

Dave Gross wrote:

After the iconics, of course, there's a long line of novel characters waiting for the pre-paint treatment. I'm just saying 55 figures per book would be a good start.

I failed at getting the Gen Con exclusive Varian from Reaper, much to my regret. You, sir, just made my week. :)

To be perfectly clear, that was my fannish wish, not any inside information I have. :)

It's a fairly logical wish, though.

(I was actually a bit surprised the boys weren't included in the Legends of Golarion set.)

And yet there are 14 Dragons, 13 Goblins, 8 Elemntals, 5 Genies, A BUNCH of Humans (no I'm not going to take the time to count them all), 2 Fire Demons, 4 Succubus type Demons (5 if you count the Incubus), 4 Ogres, 3 or 4 Trolls...

I for one love the diversity within categories like goblins. Yes, it means it'll take longer to reach other categories, but it's so sweet to throw my players a goblin horde that looks like it's composed of individuals or at least special teams with leaders. :)

That said, let me add my voice to those who'd love a set composed of halflings, gnomes, and dwarves, and another full of unusual PC species.

Since the reply function has started truncating the quotes, I'm going to address the following excerpt of your post.

Not disagreeing that we may have enough Canids for a bit, but I'd rather see more of that than another Dragon, Demon, Goblin, or Human at the moment.

Dragons, Demons, Goblins, and the occasional Human are encountered as the central foes in nearly every adventure Paizo puts out. Dogs aren't. When they're encountered, it's usually as pack of animals or minions of someone more powerful.

I will agree that some additional Gnolls would be nice.

-Skeld

Zahariel wrote:

Dave Gross wrote:

After the iconics, of course, there's a long line of novel characters waiting for the pre-paint treatment. I'm just saying 55 figures per book would be a good start.

I failed at getting the Gen Con exclusive Varian from Reaper, much to my regret. You, sir, just made my week. :)

To be perfectly clear, that was my fannish wish, not any inside information I have. :)

Fannish wish or not, I would be up for this, especially as part of me expected to see them in this last set. It would have been perfect.

I'd love to see Erik do a write-up one week on how decisions are made regarding the pre-painted miniature line. Obviously sales is one indicator, but I'm interested in knowing all the crucial decisions that come into play. For example:

--How much does ease of sculpt matter? Do they tend to rule out certain characters or creatures because they worry a sculpt might prove too worrisome?

--What role does the potential paint process play in their decision-making? As we've seen, this entire line is a process. And like any great artist or musician, part of the process is always working to perfect a craft. We know that there are issues with some Medium-sized, human faces in these lines; does this influence the amount of these characters Paizo chooses?

--Is there a specific ratio per set that they aim for in regards to enemies & good guys? Humans & other creatures?

--Is each set an entirely new entity, or do they allow what they already have released play a role in what makes it into a new set? For example, Wrath of the Righteous is very demon-heavy, so it seems natural to load up on demons for the set. There are a few demons that appear in Reign of Winter, including some Cold-specific ones. Theoretically, would they hesitate to put a demon in the new set after including so many demons and other outsiders in the last set?

--How much does potential mass appeal play into the decision-making process? Do you ever rule out particular characters or creatures because you don't think they have a wide enough appeal outside the particular adventure? For example, there haven't been too many plant miniatures that appear in your line, despite a fair amount of creative creatures and well drawn illustrations to choose from. Is this because you speculate that if given an opportunity, more people using miniatures would likely choose a devil or aberration to use in their homemade campaign than, say, a Basidirond?

--How much do other lines-both past and present-matter when making decisions for a set? For example, how about the Reaper Pathfinder minis? Do you look at that line and think "Well, there is already a sculpt for this particular character, so we could keep this out of the pre-painted set for awhile and include him somewhere down the line? The old D&D pre-painted lines have hundreds of different characters and sculpts and were around for the better part of a decade. Most of them are still readily available on different websites, including plenty at affordable prices. Does this play a role at all when deciding what makes it into the Pathfinder sets?

--How much input from these boards are considered when making selections? While I realize this is just a small set of the people who ultimately buy the product, I would assume there are still good ideas to be had from posters on here.

--When you are in the decision-making process for what miniatures make it into a set based off an Adventure Path, do you have a master list containing each character and creature found in the adventure?

--How much does the artwork of a particular character or creature play into the process?

--Are you hoping to eventually produce a line for each Adventure Path series, both past and present?

I realize that many of these answers are likely pretty fluid; a Wrath of the Righteous line is a great opportunity to pump out demons, while an eclectic Adventure Path like Reign of Winter could naturally provide more variety. Still, I'd love to read a blog post about the process. I bet others would, too.

Wow, I would second that blog. An insight into the whole production choices and process would be great. Perhaps a running commentary in the usual Friday blog.

Leo_Negri wrote:

And yet there are 14 Dragons, 13 Goblins, 8 Elemntals, 5 Genies, A BUNCH of Humans (no I'm not going to take the time to count them all), 2 Fire Demons, 4 Succubus type Demons (5 if you count the Incubus), 4 Ogres, 3 or 4 Trolls...

I for one love the diversity within categories like goblins. Yes, it means it'll take longer to reach other categories, but it's so sweet to throw my players a goblin horde that looks like it's composed of individuals or at least special teams with leaders. :)

That said, let me add my voice to those who'd love a set composed of halflings, gnomes, and dwarves, and another full of unusual PC species.

I'm in agreement with you about the diversity within specific categories. Creatures like Dragons and Elementals contain many different varieties. Perhaps more importantly, they appear not just throughout Adventure Paths, but are pretty common in many homemade campaigns.

The Goblins seem to be a big thing for Paizo, so it makes sense to me to find them in a theme-heavy set. I won't be disappointed if we get one or two in the upcoming Reign of Winter set. In particular, I'd love to see Grindtooth, as the illustration on page 27 of AP#68 (The Shackled Hut) is fantastic! If they continue with the small creature riding a medium creature theme that has shown up throughout the previous lines, I'd love to get a Goblin riding a Wolf.

I love both dogs and wolves, so I understand the appeal for more of these miniatures. If given a choice, though, I'd rather see other animals make it into future sets; especially considering that many of them can double up as animal companions/familiars or even triple up as Wild Shape forms. That said, I am hoping we see a winter wolf or boreal wolf, as there are handfuls of wonderful illustrations of these creatures throughout the source materials.

Sign me up for lines promoting smaller races such as halflings, gnomes, dwarves and unusual PC species. I think the problem becomes finding a way to make such lines viable. Would a builder series consisting of four sculpts each of halflings, gnomes and dwarves provide enough mass appeal? I'd love them, but would enough people buy a box or two to warrant their production? Likewise, would a 12-piece builder series of "unique races" have mass appeal? I could see purchasing a set, or even a box, but probably not more than that. The same thing can be said of other possible sets, like a 12-piece Animal Companion set. Many people might be willing to buy the complete set, but the need for multiples of, say, a cat, just seems too small.

I think the key to producing some of these characters or creatures as pre-painted miniatures is to create a unique, limited run. For example, would a 12-piece Familiar set similar to this list sell?
-Bat
-Cat
-Hawk
-Lizard
-Monkey
-Owl
-Rat
-Raven
-Viper
-Toad
-Turtle
-Weasel
All of these are Tiny or smaller, but could work on Small bases (as is typical for Paizo Tiny-sized miniatures.

I do think there would be significant interest in such a set, but likely not for multiples. Could a limited run, Kickstarter-type set work? Let us say that each miniature, as part of a limited run, would cost Paizo $5.00 to make and turn a respectable profit. Would you be willing to spend $60.00 for the set? They could set a minimum number of sets to sell in order for them to consider it worth production, with the lowest donation level set at $60.00 and guaranteed to earn a set. Would something like this be feasible? I'd love to see more ideas that would help make sets with unique pieces available.

We have had 2 sets featuring evil outsiders how about a set featuring Good outsiders and hero's maybe throw in some antihero's badguy sculpts say abut 40 good outsiders and hero's and 15 badguys [non-outsiders]

I rally liked the death demon and the incubus from this set for the bad guys and the inquisitor iconic for the good guys.

We have had 2 sets featuring evil outsiders how about a set featuring Good outsiders and hero's maybe throw in some antihero's badguy sculpts say abut 40 good outsiders and hero's and 15 badguys [non-outsiders]

I rally liked the death demon and the incubus from this set for the bad guys and the inquisitor iconic for the good guys.

I personally love this idea and believe that it's a good one in theory. I think one problem with implementing a set like this is that it could become too unattractive to the average buyer. Despite all the clamoring I've seen for more humans and more good guys in general, I would be willing to bet that a majority of people purchasing Paizo Pathfinder pre-painted plastic miniatures would always prefer more bad guys than good guys.

In most of the campaigns I've played in that use miniatures, the emphasis is always on the bad guy. Outside of player characters, some animal companions/makeshift familiars/wild shape forms and an important NPC here and there, I don't often see too many situations where actual good guy miniatures are needed. Sure, there is always the attacked caravan, city under siege, or the massive nation vs. nation war. But by and large, those are largely circumstantial events when compared to battles against evil creatures. The majority of people I know who play with plastic would prefer visual representations of the six ice devils they are fighting as opposed to the two angels sent to help the group.

That doesn't mean the angels don't receive some sort of piece to represent them. But at the end of the day I think more people would appreciate more enemies to fight against. From the point of view of a GM who uses miniatures, I can tell you I'd much rather have (and invest in) forty different demons to choose from that I could use over and over in a campaign compared to maybe five angels that I'll probably only use once or twice in a campaign, and my PC's won't even fight against.

Still, I like the idea, and think it holds merit. I would actually prefer a set labeled "Heroes of Golarion" or something along those lines, where all 55 sculpts were those of good guys or good creatures. Not only would such a set immediately provide a bevy of good-aligned characters, it would allow future Adventure Path sets to focus on even more evil creatures/characters, neutral-based creatures and campaign-specific NPCs (which often can double up as PCs or NPCs).

... Despite all the clamoring I've seen for more humans and more good guys in general, I would be willing to bet that a majority of people purchasing Paizo Pathfinder pre-painted plastic miniatures would always prefer more bad guys than good guys. ...

Perhaps that is because the bulk of the burden of providing minis for the game falls on the game master? And I don't know about you, but when I'm the GM I'm generally trying to destroy the party, not bulk it up! :)

Seriously, though, I do use a wide variety of good minis as help for the party. Whether it is a mysterious traveler with a well placed hint or a metallic dragon come to save the day, if they participate, they get represented by a mini.

Even non-combatants like tradesmen or nobles are useful, as sometimes the job of the party is simply to keep them alive during their quests. Representing these helpless targets in combat becomes essential.

I also use minis for as many NPCs as possible, just so the players don't know if someone is a foe just because they show up as a figure on the gaming table. Always keep them guessing.

How does Feiya to be replaced?
Usual Wizkids channels for replacement are?