besides the druid and monk can we expect any off the current classes to receive feats similar to timeless body or timeless nature that stop aging?
if not will any future class get one?
i wanna know so i can set my expectations ahead of time its really bad to keep hoping for something just to get disappointed
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I can tell you that there likely won't be an official answer. Answers to "will there ever be X" are almost never going to say "we'll never do X" and aren't usually "X will probably happen" for anything but a very likely X.
My thoughts:
Druid, Monk, and Shifter were the only three classes in PF1 that got it by default rather than as an option, and the first two have it reflected already. Shifter might, but I'm personally hoping for less of a Druid-clone feel to them. That seems like the strongest bet.
Alchemist and Wizard got it through discovering the secret, something that seems a little less likely in PF2, where things are a little more lore-consistent in its rules.
An Alchemist in lore did discover the secret to eternal youth, and it's enough to sustain the economies of multiple cities. With PCs expected to reach level 20, it's a little weird for them to get something that only one Alchemist in millennia has discovered. Alchemy is in PF2 is more focused on stuff you can hand out to other people; there's very little permanent self-modification.
Wizard is a little more likely than Alchemist, but I'm not putting much money on it. PF2 actually defines what "arcane magic" is, and it rather specifically doesn't deal with life force or souls. Arcane is the branch of magic that's actually the least suitable for somebody interested in pursuing anything related to not aging or not dying.
Next, PF1's "class paths". Oracle had Solar and Time with capstones, but mysteries no longer give capstones, and focus spells have too short of a duration to prevent aging. Astral eidolons granted protection from aging, but there would need to be a serious change in the sorts of abilities the eidolon grants from the playtest- one nobody has been asking for.
Finally, archetypes. Blood Kineticist, and Divine Numerologist Oracle. The Oracle archetype is basically a fancy mystery, so see above. Blood Kineticist might have some things show up in a hypothetical class, but "not aging" isn't the part people generally were interested in.
SO.
I would say that you should not expect any more of PF1's classes to get immunity to aging, with the possible exception of Shifter. I don't really know what Paizo is considering for other classes, but:
- Arcane seems unlikely to get it on any new class. If it gets it, it'd be on Wizard for legacy/reference reasons. If they were going to get it, I would have expected it in the book with the other Timeless feats.
- Occult deals with souls rather than life. It's not super likely to get aging-prevention- except maybe in some weird fashion.
- Primal has it already. I'd give any primal class a chance at getting it. "Vital" + "Material" is a great fit for keeping your body young.
- Divine does have Vital, and it deals with souls. But, you're unlikely to get anti-aging as a handout from "any god you worship" (even if there are some would grant it), and we've already got a class that goes around gods to get at the divine power directly.
(Monk is Occult or Divine for its supernatural elements, and definitely shows its possible for future classes in those areas to get it.)
One could argue that those feats that change your creature type, such as the paladin and sorcerers get, do this. At least partially.
One could argue that those feats that change your creature type, such as the paladin and sorcerers get, do this. At least partially.
I don't think they do. You gain the trait, and those traits don't cover aging at all. You also aren't losing your human/elf/whatever trait.
(Obviously, it's something you can probably convince some home GMs on. It's pretty flavorful, after all.)
One could argue that those feats that change your creature type, such as the paladin and sorcerers get, do this. At least partially.I don't think they do. You gain the trait, and those traits don't cover aging at all. You also aren't losing your human/elf/whatever trait.
(Obviously, it's something you can probably convince some home GMs on. It's pretty flavorful, after all.)
I always interpreted it as a loss of one and gaining of another and if those creatures aren't known for aging. Then there you go, but as say that will probably vary based on the GM.
I always interpreted it as a loss of one and gaining of another and if those creatures aren't known for aging. Then there you go, but as say that will probably vary based on the GM.One could argue that those feats that change your creature type, such as the paladin and sorcerers get, do this. At least partially.I don't think they do. You gain the trait, and those traits don't cover aging at all. You also aren't losing your human/elf/whatever trait.
(Obviously, it's something you can probably convince some home GMs on. It's pretty flavorful, after all.)
Sorcerer at least is pretty clear that you're mutating rather than just fully transforming.
You permanently mutate to become more like the creatures of your bloodline. You gain the appropriate trait or traits for those types of creatures (aberration for aberrant, angel and celestial for angelic, psychopomp and monitor for psychopomp, and so on).
Do you not like playing monks and druids? Or do you play them but want more variety than that?
Why does this bother you so much? Just home brew it as a capstone if it is such a big deal.
generally the idea of looking for a rpg system is to not have to home brew anything
homebrewing isn't allowed in pathfinder society and also many gms hate the concept all together
but more importantly the concept of a role playing game is that you have rules if you are allowed to just jump those rules it loses all value it would be no different from writing a gary stu character in a fanfic its meaningless
i could also homebrew my character ascending into godhood like nethys as a capstone doesn't mean ti would be fun it would be throwing the rules out the window
also the concept of vital + spirit is flawed since the is precisely what necromancers do and i think the devs are so aware of this that they outright cheat when making members of the whispering way with abilities that seem to belong to sorcerer such as undeath's blessing , command undead like clerics and negative healing which doesn't come from any class only from maybe a dhampir ancestry
even though in lore most members from the whispering way who aren't already undead are necromancers
if your system doesn't need change why do you need to alter the rules for npcs like that?
Do you not like playing monks and druids? Or do you play them but want more variety than that?
in all honesty i just cant get under the idea of being a servant of anything that can take my powers away is a hard pass + the theme of the druid in general just doesn't fit me
there is a limit to how much you can re-flavor something a wild druid is supposed to avoid civilization but if i'm a character who uses arcane, craft and constantly looks for information specially rituals and unnatural secrets etc... that is as far from nature as it gets
then there is the monk but its incredibly boring to play as a martial even with all the fancy focus spell without actual spellcasting combat becomes boring really fast
sure i can play as a monk and multi class into a bard but by that point i'm sacrificing what? 5 levels of casting specially the 10th level spell just to recover the ability to not age
that level of gymnastics when it could so easily have been fixed by giving immortality back to the wizard or sorcerer is really frustrating
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also the concept of vital + spirit is flawed since the is precisely what necromancers do and i think the devs are so aware of this that they outright cheat when making members of the whispering way with abilities that seem to belong to sorcerer such as undeath's blessing , command undead like clerics and negative healing which doesn't come from any class only from maybe a dhampir ancestry
even though in lore most members from the whispering way who aren't already undead are necromancers
if your system doesn't need change why do you need to alter the rules for npcs like that?
Sure, necromancy leans heavily on vital + spirit. But enchantment leans heavily on mind, and Druid still gets Charm, and fey are often heavily focused on the mind aspect.
NPCs follow different rules, and the Whispering Way template is just that- a general template. It provides exclusively divine abilities, and I don't see how that conflicts with the Whispering Way having lots of necromancers. Urgathoan Clerics, Bone Oracles, and Undead Bloodline Sorcerers are all divine necromancers.
I'm just making predictions for "not aging".
What's the draw to immortality? Particularly one that's just handed out instead of something you have to be ruthless for (soul transfer) or heretical (lichdom) or spend a fortune to just sustain yourself. Those at least make for good story developments.
Isn't the several hundred years a dwarf or elf lives enough to come back to a campaign you ran and see your character again potentially hundreds of years later.
I hope no other class gets a feat like that because it is wasted space w/o some other gains.
that level of gymnastics when it could so easily have been fixed by giving immortality back to the wizard or sorcerer is really frustrating
Sure. But, I think you may have noticed that not a lot of people are clambering for "not aging" as an ability. If there's something you specifically really want, it's a lot easier to address it on your end than to keep expecting Paizo to put it out.
Monk and Druid have the feat, and they both get it at 14th. It's pretty easy to talk to a home GM and say, "Hey, Wizards had the ability to halt their aging in PF1 as a capstone. I'd like to play that kind of character. Could I add an arcane version of the Druid feat to Wizard's list as an uncommon or rare option that I can take?"
It's different than adding apotheosis as a capstone, because you can show the balance easily. It's an option that two other classes get, it doesn't provide a combat advantage or synergize unfairly with the class, and it's not much of a stretch of the imagination.
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In any case, the question was posed for setting expectations. I would say, don't expect it. I've given my reasoning why. If you disagree with my reasons why, then you can adjust your expectations accordingly.
I hope no other class gets a feat like that because it is wasted space w/o some other gains.
I will note that there is no current class that gets timelessness w/o some other gains. The 14th-level druid feat Timeless Nature gives you a constant +2 status bonus to saves vs diseases and primal magic, while the 14th-level monk feat Timeless Body gives a constant +2 status bonus to saves vs diseases and poisons, plus poison resistance of half your level. I imagine the majority of the people who take those feats take them for those benefits and consider ceasing aging an afterthought.
What's the draw to immortality? Particularly one that's just handed out instead of something you have to be ruthless for (soul transfer) or heretical (lichdom) or spend a fortune to just sustain yourself. Those at least make for good story developments.
Isn't the several hundred years a dwarf or elf lives enough to come back to a campaign you ran and see your character again potentially hundreds of years later.
I hope no other class gets a feat like that because it is wasted space w/o some other gains.
what do you do you do when you get mummy rot in pathfinder? usually other player i have seem stop everything they are doing and focus entirely on healing it
imagine now you had a version of mummy rot that is much much slower but when its reaches final stage it will destroy your soul
why is it so weird to want to get healed before focusing on anything else?
like i can even understand it on real life but in a world where immortality already exists its even more bizarre that people wouldn't focus on getting it
look i can understand people not looking for immortality in real life but in a fantasy world where you know all it takes i training as a monk why not? specially if you are form a godless country like Rahadoum or you if you are chaotic neutral and are afraid of going to the maelstrom and becoming a chaos beast
has pathfinder become so much of a turn based strategy that people don't care about the future of their characters?
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Why do you waste your time gaming when you could be pursuing immortality IRL?
There are actual scientific institutions working on it, you know. All it takes is training as a molecular biologist. Get to work!
what do you do you do when you get mummy rot in pathfinder? usually other player i have seem stop everything they are doing and focus entirely on healing it
imagine now you had a version of mummy rot that is much much slower but when its reaches final stage it will destroy your soul
why is it so weird to want to get healed before focusing on anything else?
like i can even understand it on real life but in a world where immortality already exists its even more bizarre that people wouldn't focus on getting it
look i can understand people not looking for immortality in real life but in a fantasy world where you know all it takes i training as a monk why not? specially if you are form a godless country like Rahadoum or you if you are chaotic neutral and are afraid of going to the maelstrom and becoming a chaos beast
has pathfinder become so much of a turn based strategy that people don't care about the future of their characters?
The implication of timeless body is an extreme honing of the monk training was my interpretation of it. That isn't just something you achieve and can then just do whatever you want to your body and Druidom has some severe drawbacks of its own because of the antathemas.
And the future of a character is important but hardly beyond a normal lifetime. What do I care if Horst the old former military officer turned teamster lives more than another 30 years. What I care for is he's gonna be happy with his life when I retire him, which is gonna be soon (he's an add on character to a PC party I'm GMing).
Either way I fall on the side of fleetness of life being important to the forming of much of our world view and that the pursuit or product of immortality becomes all too easily immoral.
Why do you waste your time gaming when you could be pursuing immortality IRL?
There are actual scientific institutions working on it, you know. All it takes is training as a molecular biologist. Get to work!
that is exactly what i'm studying for if your argument is that i'm slacking off by checking a online forum from time to time then i agree its valid but taking 10 seconds to check a forum while i'm waiting for dinner is hardly going to cost my life
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what do you do you do when you get mummy rot in pathfinder? usually other player i have seem stop everything they are doing and focus entirely on healing it
imagine now you had a version of mummy rot that is much much slower but when its reaches final stage it will destroy your soul
why is it so weird to want to get healed before focusing on anything else?
The value of a character is the enjoyment one gets from making and playing them. Mummy Rot is prioritized because it will cut that short, and so players prioritize it. Characters prioritize it because if they don't act, they will only have a week or two to live.
like i can even understand it on real life but in a world where immortality already exists its even more bizarre that people wouldn't focus on getting it
look i can understand people not looking for immortality in real life but in a fantasy world where you know all it takes i training as a monk why not? specially if you are form a godless country like Rahadoum or you if you are chaotic neutral and are afraid of going to the maelstrom and becoming a chaos beast
I feel like "training as a Monk" is inaccurate. A level 14 feat can't be obtained through multiclass, so I think "dedicating your life to becoming a Monk" is a fairer representation of the effort required. Somebody could give up decades of their life for the chance of having a longer life, but there's no guarantee. A lot of people would choose to just live their life. Besides, "not aging" doesn't mean much to somebody in a dangerous profession anyway; avoiding an afterlife that you take seriously and hate is much more easily done by amending your ways.
has pathfinder become so much of a turn based strategy that people don't care about the future of their characters?
"And they never died" is no more satisfying to me than "and their soul was sent to Abaddon, and the accumulated power of their soul gave them the edge they needed to begin hunting weaker souls, beginning their transformation into a daemon" or "and they retired after marrying into a wealthy family, entertaining their children and eventually grandchildren with tales of their exploits, occasionally meeting up with their old adventuring companions to chat".
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that is exactly what i'm studying for if your argument is that i'm slacking off by checking a online forum from time to time then i agree its valid but taking 10 seconds to check a forum while i'm waiting for dinner is hardly going to cost my lifeWhy do you waste your time gaming when you could be pursuing immortality IRL?
There are actual scientific institutions working on it, you know. All it takes is training as a molecular biologist. Get to work!
Oh, no, it's not the forums that are distracting you from your quest, it's the actual hours-long gaming sessions.
So have you noticed that IRL not all scientists are biologists, not all biologists are molecular biologists, and not all molecular biologists are working on immortality, not even all the atheists? Why do you suppose that is?
that is exactly what i'm studying for if your argument is that i'm slacking off by checking a online forum from time to time then i agree its valid but taking 10 seconds to check a forum while i'm waiting for dinner is hardly going to cost my lifeWhy do you waste your time gaming when you could be pursuing immortality IRL?
There are actual scientific institutions working on it, you know. All it takes is training as a molecular biologist. Get to work!
Oh, no, it's not the forums that are distracting you from your quest, it's the actual hours-long gaming sessions.
So have you noticed that IRL not all scientists are biologists, not all biologists are molecular biologists, and not all molecular biologists are working on immortality, not even all the atheists? Why do you suppose that is?
i assume its due to the horrible deathist culture that has held back humanity from advancement
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So have you noticed that IRL not all scientists are biologists, not all biologists are molecular biologists, and not all molecular biologists are working on immortality, not even all the atheists? Why do you suppose that is?i assume its due to the horrible deathist culture that has held back humanity from advancement
Okay. You want to understand Golarion people? Some have patron deities that they expect nice treatment from following death. The rest of them are all a couple notches farther into horrible deathist culture than the RL non-molecular biologists. There, now you understand.
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Well, folks look for and get different things out of fantasy. "Defeating death/old age" isn't my personal fantasy cup of tea, but that's fine. There are plenty of people who don't care for the stuff I like.
My suggestions:
- It's a really small homebrew to get what you're after: adding a single balanced (or even what some would consider weak) feat that exists to Wizard. I would expect a lot of non-PFS GMs to approve it. Or, alternatively, get GM approval for the Sorcerer capstone feat to allow getting an outsider's longevity without going through the loss of memory that death entails.
- Alternatively, another small homebrew is using Halcyon Speaker as a way to move towards a more arcane Druid, and getting a GM to approve making your power not limited by anathema or nature's approval- perhaps in exchange for something like requiring your Druid spells to come from a spellbook too.
- If you're up for playing PF1, there are a lot more ways to agelessness. Personally, I have plenty of character concepts I go back to PF1 for.
- You might want to look around for a GM who is interested in the same themes as you. Immortality as a long-term goal makes for a good character motivation.
- Some of the higher-powered systems might also fit what you're interested in. Godbound is the one I'm familiar with (despite the name, you're usually not bound to a god; it's about being or becoming one), but I would guess Exalted would allow it too. Vampire: The Masquerade has immortality baked in as part of the premise, although that comes with a lot of drawbacks.
(With regards to your future career, if you do make major progress on beating death, please feel free to include me on a gloat list. It would be cool to be proven wrong on the whole "inevitable death" thing.)
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It's very intentionally a super rare thing, I believe,, even moreso with PF2 being more focused on Golarion's lore than trying to ensure that it can still support e.g. Forgotten Realms games.
In Golarion, immortality is pretty rare and there's only a couple well-known ways of achieving it: regular doses of the Sun Orchid Elixir or passing the Test of the Starstone and becoming a deity. And the lesson there is that immortality isn't really; Aroden was a god who died and he's far from the only one. We also know contextually that some of the Golarion deities aren't around in Starfinder, which implies that there were some more divine deaths or abdications between the two settings (or that they're actually parallel universes with numerous similarities but key differences).
Even monks and druids can only achieve agelessness, not immortality; sooner or later they die when another monk or druid challenges them for their position or they just get tired of the mortal realm and willingly discorporate or adventure into the planes beyond.
Widespread access to immortality is actually really bad for storytelling and creating a game world unless the story is specifically about the journey to immortality; just look at how the Forgotten Realms had to be blown up on multiple occasions to deal with its overpopulation of immortals. There's a point where too many immortals in the setting just erodes the feasibility of a lot of stories that are otherwise worth telling. Similarly, it puts a cap on the ambitions of the PCs; how many people are going to dare the Test of the Starstone when they're already immortality? Godhood is demanding and all indicators are that you lose some of your mortal self and free will when you become a deity, so maybe if you're afraid to die then it's better to devote yourself to monastic study or primal communion and hope you can dodge the attention that comes with your achievement (though the longer you live, the more likely that powerful and unsavory types will come looking to test your immortality, and eventually they'll prove once again that agelessness and immortality are not the same thing.)
Eh. Maybe there will be something in Secrets of Magic, or the... (okay I'm not even going to TRY to spell that, Absalom gives me problems)* Academy adventure path. Old Mage Jatembe is apparently ageless, so perhaps he has a rare feat to offer players.
*I am dyslexic. After a certain point, letters are just a jumble of lines on the screen to me.
Frankly I'm surprised they left in the monk and druid feats for agelessness, given that they removed it from the alchemist. I suppose part of the theory was that immortal alchemists feel more like that guy that makes the Sun Orchard Elixir than immortal monks/druids do---and the whole point is to niche-protect that part of the lore---but why keep any of them?
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What's the draw to immortality?
>_>
Frankly I'm surprised they left in the monk and druid feats for agelessness, given that they removed it from the alchemist. I suppose part of the theory was that immortal alchemists feel more like that guy that makes the Sun Orchard Elixir than immortal monks/druids do---and the whole point is to niche-protect that part of the lore---but why keep any of them?
Monk and Druid in PF1 eventually became un-aging. Alchemist and Wizard could become ageless, but it wasn't the default. That's part of my guess.
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Frankly I'm surprised they left in the monk and druid feats for agelessness, given that they removed it from the alchemist. I suppose part of the theory was that immortal alchemists feel more like that guy that makes the Sun Orchard Elixir than immortal monks/druids do---and the whole point is to niche-protect that part of the lore---but why keep any of them?
is what players are now a side thought meant to be discarded so that the story character can get the spotlight
to hell with that stupid alchemist i wont play all the way to level 20 to have a npc from the same level get what i want while i'm barred from it because ???
this is disgusting i will not play a side character on someone else's story specially a stupid character like artokus kirran
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Frankly I'm surprised they left in the monk and druid feats for agelessness, given that they removed it from the alchemist. I suppose part of the theory was that immortal alchemists feel more like that guy that makes the Sun Orchard Elixir than immortal monks/druids do---and the whole point is to niche-protect that part of the lore---but why keep any of them?is what players are now a side thought meant to be discarded so that the story character can get the spotlight
to hell with that stupid alchemist i wont play all the way to level 20 to have a npc from the same level get what i want while i'm barred from it because ???
this is disgusting i will not play a side character on someone else's story specially a stupid character like artokus kirran
Look, I don't know what to tell you. Paizo gets to write their setting and rules, and I personally enjoy their work- Artokus is one of my favorite NPCs. Part of their setting is that only one person knows the secret to alchemical youth. That choice facilitated a region, a novel, and a couple of adventures, as well as helping characterize various political leaders of the setting.
It's not that Paizo is ignoring what players want, they just can't cater to every player. They did include agelessness, and on two different classes, available much earlier than a capstone! One through an external source, and one purely through self-reliant means, covering both a caster and a martial. They dropped the clause about "dying when their time is up", so it's proper eternal youth/agelessness. I would consider that "due diligence" on providing material for people who are interested in agelessness. You're asking for something a more specific thing, and sometimes you have to get your hands dirty with a bit of homebrew if the exact character you want isn't supported with the existing material.
As for overshadowing the player characters... Level 20 Witches are still outclassed by Baba Yaga. Level 20 necromancers of any class can't compete with Tar-Baphon. Artokus is the Einstein or DaVinci of alchemy, and he's got one big secret that really sets him apart. It happens to be what your character wants to do. That could be the hook- the sun orchid is very rare and endangered, and only allows for a few vials to be made a year. Your character could be trying to discover a better recipe that can be given to more than the world's wealthiest people. But, I don't think Paizo is going to hand your character a recipe.
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...
using deities is such dishonest, shameless and underhanded move i clearly said same level alchemist
he isn't a god he is a level 20 human
i wont reply further in this thread because its very clearly a waste of time
pathfinder used to be the game with most option where you can do anything even extremely niche things or pointless things
its just sad not just how much it was downgraded but that people seemingly don't appreciate the things that made it good before
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???
Oh, so your keyboard does have punctuation. I've wondered.
In all seriousness, we all get that this is an issue for you. It just isn't that big of an issue for the rest of us, nor Paizo. There are plenty of changes and choices that they've made that I didn't agree with, some of which caused me to basically opt out of the playtest entirely. If this is something that makes you look elsewhere for play, that is too bad, but it is a risk Paizo knows they are taking with every choice they make.
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I do think there are enough people out there that wants a character that doesn't age to warrant a feat. Gate it behind a few feats or proficiencies maybe, but I don't see why it couldn't happen. Level 20 characters don't grow on trees; I know a lot of people worry that putting in more widespread immortality will mean there will be tons of thousands of years old people walking around, but characters that powerful almost never happen, and if they do I don't think it's all that crazy that they stop aging. Razmir himself is only a 19th level wizard, I'm pretty sure I heard or read somewhere.
Not to mention it has little to no mechanical impact on the game. Aging doesn't matter. So why not let people have their fantasy character realized? There are already feats that allow you to stop eating and drinking, which is almost more far-fetched.
The other concern I see voiced is that it's stepping on the toes of druids and monks, which is pretty fair. So make those feats have advantages, like being able to get them earlier, not locked behind a feat chain, or not giving any other immortality feats other bonuses like +2 saves vs diseases or what have you.
I do think there are enough people out there that wants a character that doesn't age to warrant a feat. Gate it behind a few feats or proficiencies maybe, but I don't see why it couldn't happen. Level 20 characters don't grow on trees; I know a lot of people worry that putting in more widespread immortality will mean there will be tons of thousands of years old people walking around, but characters that powerful almost never happen, and if they do I don't think it's all that crazy that they stop aging. Razmir himself is only a 19th level wizard, I'm pretty sure I heard or read somewhere.
Not to mention it has little to no mechanical impact on the game. Aging doesn't matter. So why not let people have their fantasy character realized? There are already feats that allow you to stop eating and drinking, which is almost more far-fetched.
The other concern I see voiced is that it's stepping on the toes of druids and monks, which is pretty fair. So make those feats have advantages, like being able to get them earlier, not locked behind a feat chain, or not giving any other immortality feats other bonuses like +2 saves vs diseases or what have you.
More that it steps on the lore for Alchemists to have it than any concern about it stepping on druid or monk toes. I would be surprised if there wasn't a wizard option in the Strength of Thousands AP or Secrets of Magic, with my money more on the AP in an article on Jatembe than the rulebook.
If we get an AP focused on Artokus, which is not far-fetched, then an alchemist capstone with the Sun-Orchid elixir is very possible. I could even see it being an entire Alchemy research field if they really wanted to go all in on the concept.
Edit: Based on this prestige class I think a research field or a few new feats is possible and might even be in Secrets of Magic (or the equipment/technology focused book I keep hoping for). A lot of feedback is that chiurgeon is underpowered; something like this might help.
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Yeah, options for Wizard and Alchemist immortality seem likely to show up at some point. The Wizard version specifically needs to be 20th level so Razimir's story makes sense, but that's a minor hurdle.
House Rules are also a thing, and can fix this issue really easily in various ways.
Yeah, options for Wizard and Alchemist immortality seem likely to show up at some point. The Wizard version specifically needs to be 20th level so Razimir's story makes sense, but that's a minor hurdle.
Even if it is possible for some wizards, it need not be accessible to all wizards. A level 14 Rare feat would be consistent with similar feats, yet also out of reach of Razmir (much to his annoyance).
Now that I think about, Nex is another immortal wizard, so that's another possible avenue of introduction. Though given the power involved in how he accomplished it, that does suggest that level 20 is the most appropriate level. Edit: And Sorshen. Technically Xanderghul I suppose. And Baba Yaga for the Witch end of things. Really some kind of immortality should be added in for wizards/witches at some point.
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Another thing to think about is immortal races. In 2e gnomes can theoretically live forever, as can leshies. Something to keep in mind op. I assume androids will also be immortal in some form when they come out.
Another thing to think about is immortal races. In 2e gnomes can theoretically live forever, as can leshies. Something to keep in mind op. I assume androids will also be immortal in some form when they come out.
Excellent point. Also Samsarans reincarnate, so if those come back that's another option.
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It all comes down to the fact that immortality itself is more or less flavor as far as the game’s concerned, there’s no mechanics that interact with age, nor games outside of home ones that last more than a few years.
Ergo it’s something you earn as part of the story, not spend a feat for.
Or by taking a rare feat you gained access to through the story that has some other elements to it, which is really kind of the bucket for things like agelessness outside of well-established story niches like the monk and druid with their mastery of the physical form (which, just to mention it again], is not the same as immortality; lots of ageless people still die for a variety of reasons.)
So, something to point out in this thread: there are NO ancient ageless Monks or Druids who aren’t Elves or Gnomes, as it was confirmed by James Jacobs, I believe, that all it did was stop you aging. You still die when your lifespan is up. It’s kinda BS, as it totally eliminates the Old Man on the Mountain and Eternal Grandmaster kind of thing for Monks, as well as the idea of becoming the cycle of Nature for druids. It’s why the Feats are overall extremely bad, they’re really just +2 to saves against certain magic, or Poison Resistance.
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So, something to point out in this thread: there are NO ancient ageless Monks or Druids who aren’t Elves or Gnomes, as it was confirmed by James Jacobs, I believe, that all it did was stop you aging. You still die when your lifespan is up.
Was it confirmed by JJ in PF1 or PF2?
besides the druid and monk can we expect any off the current classes to receive feats similar to timeless body or timeless nature that stop aging?
if not will any future class get one?
i wanna know so i can set my expectations ahead of time its really bad to keep hoping for something just to get disappointed
I would say that it's a "Yes and No" sort of thing.
As other posters have stated, only certain classes could fill the eternal life/youth niche, which Monk and Druid have done (and currently do). I do not expect pure martial classes like Ranger, Fighter, or Rogue to acquire these things. Just as well, Barbarians, Bards, Champions, and Clerics are probably off the table as well, for similar reasons.
But there are rules for different forms of immortality, such as a Philosopher's Stone being used for life sustenance, or going down the path of Lichdom as a Wizard or other Arcane spellcaster, but in both cases, it doesn't end too well for the one committing to it. Both go insane and die by being stopped by adventurers. Plus, I believe both are inherently Evil. Lichdom is fueled by negative energy, going against the grains of life in the hourglass of balance that Pharasma controls, and the Philosopher's Stone requires living sacrifices to power.
So, is it possible to have immortality for other classes? Yes. But their ways will differ vastly from what we have been exposed to, so as to preserve class niches.
Not really. Those are all character goals for some people playing Monk or Druid. Y’know along with other goals that are along the lines of ‘Being the greatest practitioner of a certain style’, ‘Founding my own school and creating my own unique form,’ ‘Stepping across the boundaries of the physical restraints of my human/elven/dwarven/etc body to become one with the forms of the world,’ and more. The funny thing is, Druidic Timeless Form sucks in comparison to the one that actually DOES make them immortal: Verdant Metamorphosis. It’s a better Feat all-around, and available at the same level. You just have to be okay with being a plant forevermore.
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So, something to point out in this thread: there are NO ancient ageless Monks or Druids who aren’t Elves or Gnomes, as it was confirmed by James Jacobs, I believe, that all it did was stop you aging. You still die when your lifespan is up.Was it confirmed by JJ in PF1 or PF2?
It came up in one of the like dozen threads on this in PF2 that the Timeless part of the Feats was basically bunk, and you still die of old age.
Edit: That particular thread is pretty much what started ArchSage off on their never-ending kinda crazy diatribe against the game rules. I just think it’s stupid that they removed it.
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Not really. Those are all character goals for some people playing Monk or Druid. Y’know along with other goals that are along the lines of ‘Being the greatest practitioner of a certain style’, ‘Founding my own school and creating my own unique form,’ ‘Stepping across the boundaries of the physical restraints of my human/elven/dwarven/etc body to become one with the forms of the world,’ and more. The funny thing is, Druidic Timeless Form sucks in comparison to the one that actually DOES make them immortal: Verdant Metamorphosis. It’s a better Feat all-around, and available at the same level. You just have to be okay with being a plant forevermore.
Those things all sounds like the climax of the character's arc, not something that happens midway through a campaign.