14 is not exactly ‘midway through a campaign.’ 8-12 is a midway point, 15+ is stepping into the realm of legends, 14 is right on the cusp, and it fits the two classes that are supposed to be the pinnacle of self-mastery, and the cycle of Nature that they might get it earlier. Hell, Champions can become full-flegded Angels by 18, and Clerics can become their God’s Herald at the same point.
By your logic, they shouldn’t be able to do that either, as 18 isn’t necessarily the ‘climax of the character’s arc,’ it’s just a Feat they can take.
Edit: That particular thread is pretty much what started ArchSage off on their never-ending kinda crazy diatribe against the game rules. I just think it’s stupid that they removed it.
Do you know thread that was? I wouldn't mind diving down the rabbit hole.
If not I'll just search James's posts later on.
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this one?
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs432sn?Elixir-of-Life-and-Immortality-by-Rejuve nation#29
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14 is not exactly ‘midway through a campaign.’ 8-12 is a midway point, 15+ is stepping into the realm of legends, 14 is right on the cusp, and it fits the two classes that are supposed to be the pinnacle of self-mastery, and the cycle of Nature that they might get it earlier. Hell, Champions can become full-flegded Angels by 18, and Clerics can become their God’s Herald at the same point.
By your logic, they shouldn’t be able to do that either, as 18 isn’t necessarily the ‘climax of the character’s arc,’ it’s just a Feat they can take.
I was referring more to the Grandmaster that lives as a hermit in the mountains or starts up their own school, than actual persona lpower.
What's the draw to immortality?>_>
I imagine he meant mechanically or in terms of immediate story consequences.
mechanically... I am pretty vague if the game even has age related mechanics right now. I might just be missing some chart squirreled away somewhere, but it seemed like something that is pretty easy to write off for a game designer since it allows an easier "just play whatever you want without worrying about stats" experience. I'm sure well will eventually get a return of monsters with aging relating special abilities, but otherwise, it doesn't seem to come up much.
Story wise... immortality can be fun, but it isn't exactly something you see from moment to moment usually. it is one thing if it includes wolverine style healing factor (which is easy to show off), but otherwise, it is only something you learn about by hearing them discuss their long lines. Many of the story benefits of immortality can already be handled in a variety of existing ways.
Long lived races like elves are the obvious choice, since they can talk about an event 300 years ago like it was their high school summer vacation.
Dusk walkers have a convenient "do over" option that lets you have a character that could talk about ancient events as fond memories. Heck, you could even say that your dusk walker WAS immortal once... just that it didn't work out too well for them. I think "I was a vampire, but I'm very sorry about that" seems like a good enough story hook to start off a Pharasma related plot, for example.
Dunno just "how" passionate might the OP be on this matter, but at least my view on such "less-mechanical" character options is always based on,
"Would this option be beneficial if I'm somehow flung off to a real fantasy universe, using my character sheet description as my new physical vessel?"
...kind of question. Yeah, I think this is it for me, writing your ideas do work well in organizing them...
So, something to point out in this thread: there are NO ancient ageless Monks or Druids who aren’t Elves or Gnomes, as it was confirmed by James Jacobs, I believe, that all it did was stop you aging. You still die when your lifespan is up.Was it confirmed by JJ in PF1 or PF2?It came up in one of the like dozen threads on this in PF2 that the Timeless part of the Feats was basically bunk, and you still die of old age.
Edit: That particular thread is pretty much what started ArchSage off on their never-ending kinda crazy diatribe against the game rules. I just think it’s stupid that they removed it.
Ouch, that's disappointing. Though I decided not to go on a fiery crusade and will just peacefully interpret the feat(s) as your aging process halting for good (no guarantees against death by violence and pathogen, though I'd personally love to address on the latter threat), in games I'd run at the very least.
mechanically... I am pretty vague if the game even has age related mechanics right now. I might just be missing some chart squirreled away somewhere, but it seemed like something that is pretty easy to write off for a game designer since it allows an easier "just play whatever you want without worrying about stats" experience. I'm sure well will eventually get a return of monsters with aging relating special abilities, but otherwise, it doesn't seem to come up much.Honestly, I'm not so sure we will. Dragons are already in the game, after all, and I can't find their age category table anywhere. I also don't see the age tables for when someone could have started a class, either.
I could totally be wrong, but that's just what I've noticed from my personal poking around.
I agree that they are a lot less strict about specific numbers for age, weight, and height in this edition. But I think we might get vague categories like "middle aged" or "venerable", but no actual numbers will be attached to them. It would be more about how well you are holding up over all (so you can get a person that is still spry and willing to start adventuring, like Ezren if you want).
I forget the name, but there was some kind of fiend in 1e that caused you to age a year every time you got hit by its attacks. Obviously, this monster was far, far less threatening to the dwarves and elves of the party. The implied threat is effectively trivialized.
So instead of that, 2e might make it so that "getting hit 10 times makes you advance an age category". This would allow the devs to play around with aging related abilities while not having weird balance issues between races.
I agree that they are a lot less strict about specific numbers for age, weight, and height in this edition. But I think we might get vague categories like "middle aged" or "venerable", but no actual numbers will be attached to them. It would be more about how well you are holding up over all (so you can get a person that is still spry and willing to start adventuring, like Ezren if you want).
Ezren is probably a reason Age isn't really a thing in this edition. He was written when most of Paizo's creative and design staff was in their early 30s/late 20s, so an adventurer in his mid 40s seemed quite old.
Look at the art for Ezren. He was canonically 42 when he first depicted as a premade in Rise of the Runelords. Think about the average age of Paizo's senior creative and design staff now.
So yeah, I can see why just binning the whole concept might have seemed appealing.
I agree that they are a lot less strict about specific numbers for age, weight, and height in this edition. But I think we might get vague categories like "middle aged" or "venerable", but no actual numbers will be attached to them. It would be more about how well you are holding up over all (so you can get a person that is still spry and willing to start adventuring, like Ezren if you want).Ezren is probably a reason Age isn't really a thing in this edition. He was written when most of Paizo's creative and design staff was in their early 30s/late 20s, so an adventurer in his mid 40s seemed quite old.
Look at the art for Ezren. He was canonically 42 when he first depicted as a premade in Rise of the Runelords. Think about the average age of Paizo's senior creative and design staff now.
So yeah, I can see why just binning the whole concept might have seemed appealing.
maybe i'm too dense but i don't understand what you are saying
When you’re in your mid-20’s someone near 30 is OLD. When you’re in you mid-30’s to late-30’s, you realize 40 isn’t really that old.
Also he looks like someone in his 60s or 70s. Its not unheard of to go white (he's not even gray-haired, he's a full step past that) that early in life; I personally started going gray at 23, but it is also not that common either.
Also he looks like someone in his 60s or 70s. Its not unheard of to go white (he's not even gray-haired, he's a full step past that) that early in life; I personally started going gray at 23, but it is also not that common either.
That is the thing that threw me off. I never checked the exact age, but I was vaguely aware of his backstory. While there are various reasonable arguments about people going white early... usually, people assume more advanced age when a wizard's character design goes full Gandalf the white style.
I was assuming at least 50, 55.
Trying to imagine what a wizard ageless or timeless feat would look like. Because everyone is right, there's no real game effect, so any feat would have something else going for it. I think immunity to the slow or haste conditions (unless you chose to be affected by them) would work well for the wizard version. Several level 20 feats give you a permanent haste effect; immunity to slow would be more powerful when you use it, but also more limited as you wouldn't be able to benefit from it every round.
A witch version could be a permanent Threefold Aspect, perhaps written as a Change Shape ability.
wizards are arcane and arcane is matter and mind so their "immortality" could be related to chronomancy something like learning to emulate the timeless propriety of the astral plane inside your own body or soul
it could be called timeless essence the bonus could be not needing to eat drink or sleep since it used to be the effect of timeless planes in 1e and you can already make that stuff with magic anyway so might as well why not
or instead call it astral essence make it a capstone like the cleric and summoner's ability to plane-shift except its to the astral plane and let the player retain the timeless trait even when he is out of there "something like you formed a bound with the astral plane" or something along those lines
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I can understand the appeal of searching for immortality as a major story goal. I actually have a hard time seeing it still being interesting as a feat or class feature instead of a major plot.
I can understand the appeal of searching for immortality as a major story goal. I actually have a hard time seeing it still being interesting as a feat or class feature instead of a major plot.
to me the idea of playing a cleric is alien as i cannot phantom having the mindset of one but of course i understand some people like to play that
same thing with immortality you may not find it interesting but some people like to role-play as ageless characters, if you rob it and move it into a goalpost that would be like me as a gm picking the cleric's afterlife and gating it behind a quest
sure one might like to play as cleric who for whatever reason has his soul contracted to asmodeus and must fight to go to heaven but some people play the cleric because they want to be someone who says "i fear not death my god awaits me on the hereafter" for such people that would be ruining their experience
for instance i remember playing a dnd game where a character was replying to my elf character why was i being so impatient my answer was "after you get this curse dispelled we can sit and talk for next century but now cast the spell" this is something some people like
for instance some barbarians who act like the hulk and outright smash door and walls imagine if you removed player ability to break structures, just because something isn't immediately available doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect
if you are a wizard who got immortality and you were specifically looking for it there are some pretty rewarding moments like when a the typical big boss calls you a fleeting mortal or something of that regard and you retort you actually don't age or whens a devil offers you eternal life and you say no thanks i already got it by myself or my favorite when you are put in a situation like erratic time planes where your character would die from old age but turns out he doesn't
i like those funny interaction, suppose you are facing a threat that will comes back after a thousand years the immortal wizard could just say ok gonna mark this on my calendar so i can come help you guys
i don't see why this kind of character must get discarded its not like the immortality doesn't exist since druids and monks have so why not wizards
It’s not being discarded, but you’re acting like it was this common thing that all Wizards had.
It was their 20th level capstone, the campaign was basically over at that point, not beginning.
if it was there before and its not now and there is no plan to put it back then i was discarded by definition unless you define discarded as something else i'm not speaking only about wizard but all classes in general alchemist sorcerer(imperious) arcanist(blood arcanist[imperious]) oracle(a lot of them) witch (forced reincarnation self) etc...
here have a look https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_RPG/comments/5duew6/what_are_all_the_di fferent_nonundead_ways_to_gain/
also that is a very poor argument that can easily be flipped around "its level 20 and the game is ending so there is no issue in giving then a immortality feat" see if anything it makes far more sense now as its not detracting from the overall concept diversity of the game experience
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There’s nothing in the rules stating immortality is impossible to obtain, you just get actually useful capstones now instead of something that’s flavor.
I won’t disagree, it’s really cool flavor, but it’s just that. That’s better handled in the process of the story between you and the GM.
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i don't see why this kind of character must get discarded its not like the immortality doesn't exist since druids and monks have so why not wizards
I will say, PF does have one canon form of immortality readily available, generally with depression as a side-effect. Gnomes could theoretically live forever, but after a few hundred years stuff starts to feel samey enough that they can't maintain a healthy-for-gnomes level of interest, and undergo the Bleaching. But, there are a few gnomes for whom the Bleaching isn't fatal. I didn't bring this up earlier because I personally am not fond of playing gnomes, but a gnome who survived the Bleaching by engineering their own survival seems like an interesting character. Plus, it gives a good reason to play a more subdued gnome than usual.
I would probably go with a Wellspring Gnome, picking Arcane since that's the power source you're most interested in. (We don't have a Bleachling heritage yet, but that one specifically represents a gnome that stays alive using arcane power.) Heck, here's everything I'd take!
Wellspring Gnome for heritage, using their own arcane power to replace a gnome's usual dependency on a connection to the First World. I'll pick Shield as the cantrip, since thematically I'd like something that protects them and mechanically I'd like something that can be used in combat.
First level ancestry feat: Gnome Obsession, getting full progression in Lore (Bleaching).
3rd level general feat for an ancestry feat: Life-Giving Magic, allowing Shield to trigger a reaction for temporary hitpoints once per minute.
5th level ancestry feat: This is probably Eclectic Obsession, to represent your long life similarly to what elves get but a little more on-the-fly. However, if we've got any arcane focus spells that are fitting for a long-lived feel, Energized Font would fit as well.
9th level ancestry feat: Vivacious Conduit, allowing you to passively heal by resting for ten minutes.
13th level ancestry feat: Instinctive Obfuscation. We don't have a whole lot of options up at this level, so this isn't directly thematically tied. If we want one of the earlier feats we passed up, it can go here. That said, 1/day Mirror Image reaction is really cool.
17th level ancestry feat: Free choice. There's just one feat here, and it's uncommon by PFS clarification.
i don't see why this kind of character must get discarded its not like the immortality doesn't exist since druids and monks have so why not wizardsI will say, PF does have one canon form of immortality readily available, generally with depression as a side-effect. Gnomes could theoretically live forever, but after a few hundred years stuff starts to feel samey enough that they can't maintain a healthy-for-gnomes level of interest, and undergo the Bleaching. But, there are a few gnomes for whom the Bleaching isn't fatal. I didn't bring this up earlier because I personally am not fond of playing gnomes, but a gnome who survived the Bleaching by engineering their own survival seems like an interesting character. Plus, it gives a good reason to play a more subdued gnome than usual.
I would probably go with a Wellspring Gnome, picking Arcane since that's the power source you're most interested in. (We don't have a Bleachling heritage yet, but that one specifically represents a gnome that stays alive using arcane power.) Heck, here's everything I'd take!
Wellspring Gnome for heritage, using their own arcane power to replace a gnome's usual dependency on a connection to the First World. I'll pick Shield as the cantrip, since thematically I'd like something that protects them and mechanically I'd like something that can be used in combat.
First level ancestry feat: Gnome Obsession, getting full progression in Lore (Bleaching).
3rd level general feat for an ancestry feat: Life-Giving Magic, allowing Shield to trigger a reaction for temporary hitpoints once per minute.
5th level ancestry feat: This is probably Eclectic Obsession, to represent your long life similarly to what elves get but a little more on-the-fly. However, if we've got any arcane focus spells that are fitting for a long-lived feel, Energized Font would fit as well.
9th level ancestry feat: Vivacious Conduit, allowing you to passively heal by resting for ten minutes.
13th level ancestry feat:...
there are many ways to do it
being a leshy
being in the astral plane either by regular portals or casting wish or equivalent
being a level 14 monk
being a level 14 druid
drinking the sun orchid elixir (you just can take large intervals to gather money with the amount of treasure you get its far from undoable)
becoming a lich
becoming a ghost like geb
getting turned by a vampire and then just buy blood from people (lawful evil is still lawful and arguably even neutral)
be a cleric and worship either alseta or apsu and pick avatar's audience so you can be on the astral plane or have a dragon eidolon and do the same thing
imprison yourself with the ritual and pick the Object option and have a familiar, awakened companion, eidolon or whatever help you
get baleful polymorph used on you to turn you into a water bear (Tardigrade) or a immortal jellyfish (turritopsis dohrnii)
the only reason i cant come up with a way myself is because i don't live in golarion hence i believe a captstone if a fair way to do it im not even asking to be treated the same as druids and monks
There’s nothing in the rules stating immortality is impossible to obtain, you just get actually useful capstones now instead of something that’s flavor.
I won’t disagree, it’s really cool flavor, but it’s just that. That’s better handled in the process of the story between you and the GM.
you always can pick another capstone i even suggested you make it like the cleric and summoner and give it a ability to plane-shift so it can be more useful look at the monk captsone that lets you go on without eating drinking etc.. it could easily be replaced by a aeon stone a ring of sustenance or a spell
the gms are not allowed to give wizards immortality in pathfinder society and just look how hard is it to convince people immortality at level 20 isn't horrible now imagine having this talk with every single gm i meet you cant possibly seriously think this is better
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the only reason i cant come up with a way myself is because i don't live in golarion hence i believe a captstone if a fair way to do it im not even asking to be treated the same as druids and monks
Cool. Seems fair enough to me. Just keep in mind that the number of fair, flavorful feats that could be put into the game is very large, so something you want being balanced isn't a useful argument that it should/will be printed by Paizo. Even limiting it to "stuff that was in PF1" is pretty large.
the gms are not allowed to give wizards immortality in pathfinder society and just look how hard is it to convince people immortality at level 20 isn't horrible now imagine having this talk with every single gm i meet you cant possibly seriously think this is better
I think it is better, depending on what both sides of the comparison are. "Hey, GM. I liked the Wizard's immortality capstone in PF1. I know it doesn't do much without the age penalties, but could I still get it as a 20th level feat?" and "Hey, GM. I'm interested in playing a character who uses arcane means to stop their aging. Would you be okay with adding the Monk feat Timeless Body to Wizard's list? I'm fine with adjusting the bonuses if you'd like." are both pretty short. Or even, "Hey GM, the Sorcerer capstone feat gives you an fiend/celestial/whatever type, and some mechanical benefit. Could I select an outsider's longevity instead?" Let's say you need to get into ten games before you get into one that lasts for a good length of time. That's ten conversations.
What's ten short conversations better than? I think it's better than getting frustrated waiting for the perfect feat to be released by Paizo, and I think it's better than Paizo needing to shift stuff around . (Obviously, if they decide that they want to publish some immortality feats, cool- you get exactly what you're looking for.)
just look how hard is it to convince people immortality at level 20 isn't horrible
I think this is not quite accurate. People here aren't saying (I think) that immortality at 20 is horrible; I think people are saying why they don't think it's something Paizo will/should (depending on the person) publish that.
If you try to convince GMs that immortality should be an official feat because Artokus can do it / it was in PF1 and it's bad that Paizo hasn't published it, you will probably have an equally hard time. If that's what you're thinking of, then I agree that it sounds unpleasant and I recommend against it.
But, you just need to convince the GM that immortality at level 20 is reasonable for your character in their game. If you'd come to the forums asking, "Is immortality as a 20th level capstone feat reasonable homebrew to ask for?", you'd probably get a mix of people agreeing, people asking why but not seeing it as a problem, and people suggesting a lower level given when Druid and Monk get their timeless feats.
gm's cannot bend the rules on pathfinder society to give wizard immortality so home brew cant solve that
you are assuming that not only will those conversations be quick but you are also ignoring the fact that online tables aren't that easy to find specially on the right time slot and no limitations so the result could be me not being able to play at all
and last no its very clear from the fate of souls on golarion thread that its not just i don't mind there are a lot of people who do actively hate immortality maybe due to deathist culture or whatever personal reason
also please stop acting as if wizards achieving immortality is unusual just read the marut description
A marut is tasked with hunting mortals who cheat death by artificially extending their lifespans. This includes those who seek undeath, such as liches and vampires, but also includes those who use powerful magic to cling to their youth, use divination to discover and avoid an appointed death, or call too often on the power of resurrection. Once the marut has selected its target, the inevitable pursues its quarry without surcease or deviation until either it or the target is dead.
also from the astral plane description
Travelers within the Astral find the plane untouched by the passage of time, a property exploited by many mortals fearing old age. Time, however, is not easily escaped, and upon exiting the Astral Plane, a creature finds this debt catching up to them, potentially aging to dust in moments
there are small hints all over the lore of people looking for immortality and life extension if that wasn't the case pharasma would have a clause on clone and reincarnate rituals as well as resurrection
also don't treat me as if i'm stupid there isn't nearly as much negativity when people ask a different kind of thing such as a artificer class so no this isn't people being neutral don't be disingenuous
It is also something that is NEVER going to come up in pathfinder society play. Your character can be as immortal as you like, because it will never be tested in that environment. It takes a very specific type of campaign for it to come up, and pfs will never provide that. Even if the feat did exist, there would be no time that it actually was relevant to a pfs scenario.gm's cannot bend the rules on pathfinder society to give wizard immortality so home brew cant solve that
i can also not even play and just assume that my character will be a hero an ascend to divinty
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It isn't nitpicking. Its the truth. That PFS GMs can't bend the rules doesn't really matter. Even if they could bend the rules, the scope of PFS games means your immortality is guaranteed to not come up at all, expect by you bringing it up as part of your character description. It makes literally 0 difference within that environment.
And I'm not against such a feat being printed, but I find the idea that it can't be a story note because convincing GMs each and every-time (you never fancied playing a character obsessed about anything else?) is prohibitive is ridiculous. Mostly because in 95% of games, it isn't ever going to come up in the first place.
i'm not saying its not true i'm saying its not the point immortality is already not gonna come up most of the time if they had made it so no class got and age wasn't mentioned i would be fine but the fact monk and druid got but for whatever reason others are gated from it its not fun
i do fancy playing necromancer who want to become lich vampires etc... but that doesn't solve the problem of having to convince gms in fact the immortality one is probably the easiest one since its not evil and relatively common
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gm's cannot bend the rules on pathfinder society to give wizard immortality so home brew cant solve that
Yeah, obviously I'm not talking about PFS when it comes to homebrew. Or do you only play PFS? In any case, that's what the immortal gnome idea was for- no mechanical changes, since gnomes have no definite end of life regardless, and survivors of the Bleaching are part of the lore. If you're playing in PFS, it's easy enough to have a character who is working towards immortality, or even makes claims at having become immortal (since that's not going to be testable for a while). There are also plenty of characters whose immortality could inform their actions without it being something that they would want known.
you are assuming that not only will those conversations be quick but you are also ignoring the fact that online tables aren't that easy to find specially on the right time slot and no limitations so the result could be me not being able to play at all
I am assuming the conversations will be quick, yeah. They'd be quick with any GM I've played with, at least, and that's all I've got to go off of. Tables taking some work to find is true regardless. If you're concerned that the games you can find will all turn you down because of asking for homebrew immortality… I don't think that would happen if you are polite and to the point in your request.
(the rest)
I'm not trying to be disingenuous. It's obvious the topic is an important one to you, so I'm doing my best to take that seriously. Getting into alignment debates, calling folks deathist, arguing about souls, and complaining about Paizo's setting or feat selection- that all gets in the way and prompts arguments. Personally, I felt the most argumentative when you called an NPC stupid, and it was one that I enjoyed and who provided useful context for one of my characters. A thread just about making an immortal character was pretty chill.
I think changing your approach could yield better results. This thread asked if there was going to be more Timeless Body-esque feats, but you argued about how the reasons people were giving were bad ones. You're also discarding the suggestions that don't involve Paizo publishing a feat for your chosen classes. Maybe you'll get lucky. Regardless, it is going to be a little less than a year until the next plausible release date for immortality feats (Secrets of Magic), so you've got plenty of time during which trying non-PFS homebrew or using the other suggestions is the only option.
As far as Paizo is concerned, I'm pretty sure they are aware of your interest by now, so making more topics asking them for it is unlikely to improve your chances.
Would an amnesiac gnome escape the bleaching? Basically they reset their memory every time they have lived long enough to start fading from lack of excitement.
Would an amnesiac gnome escape the bleaching? Basically they reset their memory every time they have lived long enough to start fading from lack of excitement.
I could think of plausible explanations that would work against that. The first issue is that amnesia might not be that convenient- memory is often compartmentalized, and you might just lose your knowledge of your personal history, but you would keep the general knowledge information that would let you decide 'no, that is boring'.
But assuming you lose that general knowledge information? When you have no frame of reference, you might not realize something is unusual or exciting. It might pass in one ear and out the other. There is a reason why items for toddlers are bright, colorful, and noise filled.
Young gnomes avoid that problem because they are young and healthy enough to get through that period.
Would an amnesiac gnome escape the bleaching? Basically they reset their memory every time they have lived long enough to start fading from lack of excitement.I could think of plausible explanations that would work against that. The first issue is that amnesia might not be that convenient- memory is often compartmentalized, and you might just lose your knowledge of your personal history, but you would keep the general knowledge information that would let you decide 'no, that is boring'.
But assuming you lose that general knowledge information? When you have no frame of reference, you might not realize something is unusual or exciting. It might pass in one ear and out the other. There is a reason why items for toddlers are bright, colorful, and noise filled.
Young gnomes avoid that problem because they are young and healthy enough to get through that period.
if the character is versed enough in memory manipulation they could construct new personalities that are only aware of the things they want to be aware of.
This still seems like something that would have already been a thing if it worked well.
I mean...mastering magic and memory manipulation with the potential benefit of immortality seems like something at least SOME gnomes would be interested in.
This still seems like something that would have already been a thing if it worked well.
I mean...mastering magic and memory manipulation with the potential benefit of immortality seems like something at least SOME gnomes would be interested in.
I don't know it's a pretty messed up thing to do to yourself and it's not like the character gains much out of the process. Their body keeps living but you can't really say the person does.
I don't know it's a pretty messed up thing to do to yourself and it's not like the character gains much out of the process. Their body keeps living but you can't really say the person does.This still seems like something that would have already been a thing if it worked well.
I mean...mastering magic and memory manipulation with the potential benefit of immortality seems like something at least SOME gnomes would be interested in.
Yes, but people can delude themselves into a lot of things. There is a reason why people become liches, even though you likely sacrifice a lot of quality of life in the process.
Yes, but people can delude themselves into a lot of things. There is a reason why people become liches, even though you likely sacrifice a lot of quality of life in the process.
true, let's just say I think it's doable but probably also very prone to failure.
Like most forms of immortality.
I think changing your approach could yield better results. This thread asked if there was going to be more Timeless Body-esque feats, but you argued about how the reasons people were giving were bad ones. You're also discarding the suggestions that don't involve Paizo publishing a feat for your chosen classes. Maybe you'll get lucky. Regardless, it is going to be a little less than a year until the next plausible release date for immortality feats (Secrets of Magic), so you've got plenty of time during which trying non-PFS homebrew or using the other suggestions is the only option.
To add to this, Archsage, what exactly are you looking for? As others have pointed out, PFS won't go to the levels where even the lower level feats are available. So if this is just something going on in your background, I don't really see why you need to bring it up with your GM at all, as it is just you roleplaying.
If you need a specific lore to chase after, Artokus, Sorshen, Old Mage Jatembe, Baba Yaga, Xanderghul, Nex, Aroden (even before he became a god), Hao Jin, Alzanist, and Karzoug are all humans that became effectively immortal through various means. Pick one to emulate and go from there. Might be a decent roleplaying hook for a witch, where your patron isn't an actual person or force, but merely the person you are inspired by. It would be an even better hook for a bard, as that is one interpretation of what a muse can be.
To add to this, Archsage, what exactly are you looking for? As others have pointed out, PFS won't go to the levels where even the lower level feats are available. So if this is just something going on in your background, I don't really see why you need to bring it up with your GM at all, as it is just you roleplaying.
so basically the same power of imagination reasoning from the fly climb stuff no thanks
also i don't want to chase immortality that doesn't make anything fun in the slightest for me its already annoying enough to have to do it on real life and apparently i'm not allowed to not have to worry about this even in a game because this new version has something against wizards and alchemists
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To add to this, Archsage, what exactly are you looking for? As others have pointed out, PFS won't go to the levels where even the lower level feats are available. So if this is just something going on in your background, I don't really see why you need to bring it up with your GM at all, as it is just you roleplaying.so basically the same power of imagination reasoning from the fly climb stuff no thanks
You won't play your character to old age in PFS. You won't play PFS to a level where immortality would be available if it were a capstone feat. The fly/climb business was something that one would expect to come up in play. This is more like "my character is a deposed noble", "my character died and was brought back to life for a purpose", or "my character was created as part of a magical experiment". It's something outside the scope of play that informs the character.
also i don't want to chase immortality that doesn't make anything fun in the slightest for me its already annoying enough to have to do it on real life and apparently i'm not allowed to not have to worry about this even in a game because this new version has something against wizards and alchemists
All right, I'm out then. If you're going to insist on only one thing allowing you to enjoy the game, but not in the way options for it are already provided, and you aren't willing to make any changes to accomplish that, then there's not much point in discussing it. Good luck on the official feat and/or getting some fun games in systems that provide easy immortality as a default.
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To add to this, Archsage, what exactly are you looking for? As others have pointed out, PFS won't go to the levels where even the lower level feats are available. So if this is just something going on in your background, I don't really see why you need to bring it up with your GM at all, as it is just you roleplaying.so basically the same power of imagination reasoning from the fly climb stuff no thanks
also i don't want to chase immortality that doesn't make anything fun in the slightest for me its already annoying enough to have to do it on real life and apparently i'm not allowed to not have to worry about this even in a game because this new version has something against wizards and alchemists
You did not answer the question: what exactly are you looking for? Just a feat to be printed for wizards or alchemists, even though you will never get it on a PFS character? Not because it will be banned or restricted; PFS simply doesn't play at a high enough level to where you'll ever be able to select the feat.
I'm not saying to just use your imagination to make the mechanics match your vision. I'm saying the mechanics will never affect your character at all, even when they are introduced, so you might as well play it now as if you already have what you want, if that high level feat is indeed what you want.
How was the Alchemists and Wizard’s capstones fun for you or anyone? The game was over when you hit that point, even if you could hit that level.
PFS never went that high so it’s a moot point there.
the point isn't that you pick the feat the point is that you have planned your life in a way that getting immortality is the expected and natural outcome otherwise you end up like razmir a high level character who left ti up to chance and now is completely embarrassing himself on world scale cause he has no choice choice
that would be like me in real life decide hey i see aging a horrible threat and deciding lol instead of looking for biogerontology , neurology, chemistry, medicine etc... i'm gonna be a dancer, that would be something beyond stupid to do since no amount of choreography will ever save anyone from age
if i looked at someone who chose to be a different class and ended up dying of old age i would laugh and then and say "well what were you expecting you decided to play with your life blindly on a roulette and got what you deserved" hence i must either play a monk or druid because otherwise my character would be a complete fool that couldn't possibly take seriously as a character
Just a feat to be printed for wizards or alchemists
yeah pretty much as i its on the title
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Okay so my point is, in game, there are Sorcerers, Wizards, Alchemists, and Witches that are all immortal humans. So no matter what has or has not been printed, immortality is possible.
Play your character as if you'll be able to get it one day. If you stick to PFS, you're never going to get to a high enough level to where it will happen. Since it is genuinely possible that it will in fact be printed, you might as well act accordingly.
If you step outside of PFS, talk to your DM and let them know how important this is for your character, and ask if you can get either of the timeless body feats as a wizard/bard/whatever, at a higher level if necessary. I can't imagine they'd have that big of a problem with it, since neither feat is OP.