TWO's Mythic Kingmaker: Fey Winds Blowing (Inactive)

Game Master The Wyrm Ouroboros

Thank you to everyone who has stated (or re-stated) that their characters are ready for review.

Thunderbeard -

Thanks re: the idea. It struck me that while Anton may not have been the penultimate swordlord (due to some variance on his focus), his capacity for talking to people could well have assisted him in gaining something of a reputation - which, actually, could/would stand him in good stead when it came to your position.

Having thought about other things (as well as what you've stated your own thoughts are), I agree that he should not be in either the Southern or Northern schools, but instead be one of the 'beginner class' instructors of the Aldori School itself - the square block of buildings at #4 on the link above. (And remember that all of the Aldori schools are / can be flamboyant - 'flashy swordplay', after all.)

In regards to the fire brigades:
While the former does suggest that New Stetven's firefighters are far more organized than most places, this has the primary effect of people knowing what they have to do in case of a fire, as well as having a particular task to do in order to be more efficient in fighting the fire. (There's a good description of just this sort of thing in Tamora Pierce's book Cold Fire, actually - and I suspect that Steven Kenson had probably read and used the book as inspiration for that aspect.)

Regarding the war college thing:
While the Aldori Academy may well teach (in very limited amounts) the rest of the military disciplines (strategy, tactics, logistics, etc.), its general focus on swordplay and one-on-one combat is both what's going to earn it the 'premier war college' consideration, as well as limit its effectiveness in actual battlefield conflicts. Instruction in the military command disciplines in the medieval era has almost always been restricted to the same sort of master/apprentices relationship found in guilds. While actual, organized schools for all sorts of things did exist, and do exist especially in a fantasy campaign (such as Daggermark's schools for assassins and poisoners), they are few and far between.

Re: 'HD' question:

HP:

. . Game Start: Maximum for level.
. . Advancement: Average (round up) + 1 (So 1d8 = 6.)

We are at game start now, not way back when your character was 1st level, so max for 7th level, or 5th level, or whatever level/HD you're working on.

Jereru -
Never seen the 'dk/da' thing; thanks. And will get to you in time/turn. Regarding your characters' ages, you can decide what it is as you like, just use a minimum age of an average of 2s on the diceroll, please. It's just that I really don't want a precocious 16yo 7th level (or 5th level!) character running around; makes me break out in hives.

Lucky Halfling -
Glad to see you're still interested. A former assistant/student/officer of Chalm's is a good background; I'll concede I've previously steered people away from having an association with him, but this was primarily those owho wanted to have associated with him, as compared to a much more in-depth relationship such as you're proposing. Go to town.

Regarding the cohort build:
At first, I'd've prefered you stuck with one or the other; I didn't think that the bard's setup would dovetail well with the cavalier's. On fast-and-casual build/glance-through, I think it will, so I'm going to say go ahead. I do have a requirement, however - you need to explain how the cohort has acquired the 'dawnflower dervish' side of it, because this is a very distinct Qadiran thing. I've said previously that all Paizo is allowable, with the caveat that you may need to explain how it got to Brevoy; this is one of those things.

DAA -
Thanks, looking fine so far. Not often you see the cohort built before the PC, though. ;) Let me know when you finish Emma so we can get to reviewing them both.

LetcherMan69 -
Yes and yes - but they a) still have to follow the rules for cohorts, and b) still - or perhaps especially - will be impacted by the restrictions on non-core races.

Daedalus the Dungeon Builder -
Thank you, I'll move you up on my list.

Paranoid Oldman -
Handle RL. I won't count you out until I close applications; I hope you can take care of it and finish up Kat Carpenter, because I had a few thoughts which, should I select you as one of the 4-12 (probably 12, to be honest) new folk, would dovetail you quite nicely into a group ...

Alicorn Sage
You don't have to work on the stats without working on the background; my statement was that I wanted you to finish your technicals before continuing to talk about your character on the thread. You have ideas about your character, and you want to develop the background, that's all fine and good; go to, I highly encourage it. What I don't want to have to do is have thirty posts each to and from you about your character's background when there's a huge amount of confusion and conflict between that background and the (entirely unfinished) aspects of your character build.

In short, I want you to finalize your background, use that to build your character, ask questions as necessary only about technical details, and only once that's finished present the character, her cohort, and ask about any questions you may have regarding the background. Right now the background is very, very puzzling to me, because it has several things I dislike in character backgrounds - significant complexity in regards to the events surrounding the character, multiple twists in the story, a character with numerous non-unified concepts that tend towards contradictions.

I don't - no, I'm sorry, let me go back to the 'about myself' section of the campaign information, and be an assh0le. I will not waste a boatload of time writing responses to your questions when you have not put in the work of finishing your character build. You know damn good and well that I bend over backwards to say 'this is how we'll represent this and handle that'; I am extremely flexible, as shown in both this and the Homecoming campaign recruitments. You will not deride to others, overtly or by implication, my capacity for working with my players, thank you very fvcking much. This is me telling you to get your act together.

Your background is a hot fvcking mess. Clarify it. Once you've clarified it, build it. If you have specific questions about a technical issue in building it, ask your questions, and be specific. Once you've done this for both your PC and your cohort, you can start posting questions about background, and how things fit, and whether or not you should change something technical to fit the background better, or whether you should change something in your background to fit the world/campaign better (and thus something technical as well).

But I refuse to play the 'theory' game with you again; I have seven people ready to be reviewed, and eleven others working to finish themselves up; I don't have time for your bullsh!t.

Everyone -
I think I'm seeing Hero Lab-built characters here and there. Please be nice to your GM and provide him with links to where he can download your character file(s).

Re: Prestige, Fame, and Honor
Like I said, it looks like we'll be using these, so here's how it's going to work.

Fame and Prestige:
These are essentially the same thing - your reputation, whether with the general public or with them as well as with a certain faction. One or two of you have already established yourself as being part of a particular faction; if you can explain yourself as being part of a group, then you can be a part of that group, and use its Prestige awards in addition to the general reputation awards available.

While technically your starting Fame is Level + Charisma Modifier, I'm going to wrap both of those into a Fame I'll assign you after reviewing your character, based on your background. They'll all be between 20 and 25, and using this allows us to have established that you're famous, at least in some circle and/or area. Please keep in mind that pretty much everyone will have the chance (and need) to change where their fame is centered, so feel free to establish your Sphere of Influence where-ever it might be for now, 'cause it's gonna change soon enough.

In regards to your Prestige Points themselves, once I've assigned you your Fame you can select up to two of the several Titles available at Fame 20; I expect cavaliers, clerics, and paladins will have interest in Initiate, mages will want to pick up Sage, rogues and bards will likely be interested in Fence Friend or Palm Greaser, and the like. While you can also pick up the non-Title awards, many of them are very limited-term things, and/or will do you no good in the starting portion of the campaign. Sacrifice is not allowed; Favored Territory is not (as of yet) recommended, since you'll be leaving it behind forever.

Honor

Honor is similar, but both different and seperate, from Reputation. In this game, you do not have to take an honor code. However, those individuals who do have an honor code gain a few advantages in influence, access, and skill (i.e. the ways to spend Honor). Honor at game start will be your Charisma + 7 (Level) + 1d10 - 1d6, just to preserve the greater fluctuations of Ihonor.

Individuals who follow Codes of Honor will possess a somewhat higher social reputation aside from the actual Fame/Reputation mark; an individual with an equal or slightly lower Fame than another, but who follows a Code of Honor appropriate to their character, will be treated with greater respect and courtesy than the other. In a social situation they may be treated of a higher or more important rank than the rival without a Code; if they are significantly lower in social rank (a knight who follows a Code compared to a baron or earl who does not), the host would of course be required to place the rival in a higher standing, but may show great courtesy, deference or respect to the character as compared to the higher-ranked rival. So while you don't have to take and live by a Code, it may behoove you to do so.

I specifically recommend that cavaliers/samurai take those codes, that any criminal rogues or bards look into that code, and that anyone who is especially interested in the political aspects of the game look into that code.

Now - off to review characters!!

I'm glad to see that my new character concept has been well met.

I'm envisioning the main character as a man of Taldan descent. While he venerates Iomedae, he also recognizes Sarenrae. His weapon of choice is an Aldori dueing sword and he has been well-trained in the art of using it to defeat his foes, whether this be by the use of lethal or non-lethal means.

His second-in-command, along with many of his troops, have descended from the Keleshites. This is why they tend to venerate Sarenrae over Iomedae, but they do carry a respect for their leader's deity.

It is his second-in-command's heritage that has instilled her/him with the Dawnflower's teachings. It is also why s/he believes so much in the capabilities of her/his horse.

I did not intend for anyone to think I was deriding anyone for anything. I'm sorry if that was the impression people got from my post. I also wasn't remarking about you as a gm either, I was just trying to show why it was being such a sticky point for me as some suggested I should be able to randomly pick one and make it work, which I figured primarily stems from being unusual in my play/build style.

Alicorn Sage -
You're reading things that simply aren't there. Only two people repied to you:

You choose your own story feat for both characters.

@Alicorn: What? Using story feats never makes building a character *harder*. Just pick a story feat whose name and description matches your character's story. Most of them have very minor mechanical effects (there's few story feats that make sense putting in any build for that reason), so unless you're trying to min-max, just think of it as a fun and unexpected bonus you might get someday if you complete one of the goals you already listed for your character.

If you really don't want to pick them yourself, you can ask other players to suggest story feats as well based on a listed background.

(For instance: I said "okay, my character does dueling and diplomacy. Do I want the story feat about challenging foes to duel, or the one about talking them out of it?" made a decision and then I had a story feat. For my cohort, an aspiring artist, I picked the "I make art" story feat. It doesn't matter what they actually do, because it's something my character won't be benefiting from most days)

Neither of them suggested 'randomly', or even 'semi-randomly' (as you replied to thunderbeard), adding a feat; thunderbeard specifically recommended defining your character in a few clear, clean words ('dueling and diplomacy') - which advice is actually fantastic advice for character creation - and then looking at the Story Feats that interact with that definition. Which means it comes around to you not having a clear, clean simple definition of your character. Achieve the latter, and the former becomes easy. So stop being dramatic about it. This is me telling you a second time to get your act together.

Lucky Halfling -
Re: the PC.
Remember that the Aldori dueling sword, though it can be used on the battlefield, is not really a weapon designed for battlefield, where the ability to strike an enemy with the backswing can be very, very necessary. I recommend you stay away from the whole Aldori Dueling sword / Swordlord thing, which apparently is what the Daring Champion is about. If you want to make that sort of person, that's fine, but it doesn't mesh well with the Northern Brevoy / army sort of thing. A cavalier officer on the Western Front for Chalm Kowlskiy is going to need to be moderately armored and highly mobile - which means horse. If you want to stick with the 'officer for Chalm' background, then I recommend a commander-knight on horseback, not one of the three dozen other lightly-armored duelists wanting to go with.

Re: the cohort. Nice, but - no offense - remember that just because you are born of the Inuit doesn't enable you to build either an iglu or a yurt. Make sure that you describe (doesn't have to be extensive) how the specific instruction for the archetype came to you - your mother was a dawnflower dervish, or one of the local clergymen/temple guards came from a long line of them, that sort of thing.

My Cohort has less gold to spend so she was done mechanically first, fighters are easier to build, and her backstory is less complicated. But I know it is odd that the cohort is done first. I am actually struggling on what to spend the gold on for my Oracle. No freaking clue what I want for the bigger purchase. Any suggestions would be welcome.

As to the fame and prestige or honor systems. I have no real familiarity with them but I would be more than willing to learn. O love codes so I will try to do some reading on it and will probably have either one or both of them have one. I like the concept as you explained it.

My main submission and cohort are nearly done, but still have a few things to finalize. But I wanted to post them here to show that I'm still interested in the campaign and as a quick preview.

Kaellin Greenleaf: CG male half-elf ranger 7
Sylvara Amalur: NG female elf bard 5

I still need to write down Sylvara's backstory (got the details done in my head, just need to write it down properly), and finalize gear for the both of them (just to figure out what to spend the remaining ~2k gold if need be). Once done, I'll get the profiles set up properly.

GM,

Would you allow this race trait, which is normally for Gnomes, apply to Elves as well?:

Forest Senses (Race): When in any unsettled, uncivilized
terrain, you gain a +2 trait bonus on Perception checks
to act during a surprise round, and take no penalty on
Perception checks while sleeping.

Also, this is a regional trait normally for those from Sevenarches, but since my characters are tied strongly to the fey, would it be alright if I took this trait:

Fey-Wise: You grew up around fey and are accustomed
to their tricks. You gain a +1 trait bonus on saving throws
against the spell-like and supernatural abilities of fey and
a +1 trait bonus on Sense Motive checks against fey.

Regarding Fame:
-Is it appropriate, then, to start purchasing titles for characters-in-progress as long as I assume ≤20 fame (with the rest being potentially a hold-over)? (Since I'm building a character who's into status)
-Do cohorts get fame, do they avoid it entirely, or do they share? (e.g. buying titles out of the same pool)

Regarding Honor:
-What code do you suggest for Swordlords? A modified chivalric code? There's so many that it might make sense to have a GM-tweaked code for them all
-Do cohorts get honor?
-Can we belong to two codes? (for instance, membership in an organization or church, but also a political code tied to status in the new nation we're building)

DAA -

No freaking clue what I want for the bigger purchase. Any suggestions would be welcome.

I honestly couldn't reasonably suggest anything until there was more to look at; it's like trying to recommend a place to eat without knowing anything about what the person enjoys.

Ariael -
Race Trait: No, sorry.

Regional Trait: While I am somewhat leery of allowing regional traits to transfer, I'll make this a tentative 'Yes'. You'll need to have come from somewhere either very close by Sevenarches, such as the Kyonin side of the river, or somewhere with an intense fey presence, with references (i.e. I can look it up in the wiki or in a Paizo sourcebook you refer me to).

Thunderbeard -
Fame/Prestige:
To clarify, all PCs (Primary Characters, for this interpretation) will possess Fame/Prestige scores of 20-25; cohorts will possess Fame/Prestige at least 7 and probably 10 or more points lower, probably starting with their Level + CHA Modifier (i.e. 5+, to a likely maximum of 10). I will also not permit Cohorts to purchase Titles of any sort at this time, allowing us to concern ourselves only with the PCs.

Since the most you could spend on your two allowed Titles would be 10 (Sage, twice), and since using PP for non-Title abilities at this time is not advised, you shouldn't have to worry about anything except basic book-keeping on that score.

Honor:
For a Swordlord I would generally recommend the chivalric code, as the entire concept of the honorable gentleman duelist comes from chivalric ideals. As I am not willing to allow people to hold to two different codes (and thus double-dip for benefits), you'll have to decide which code is more important to you.

Cohorts may take to a Code as well; their starting Honor is Charisma + 5 (again, their level) + 1d6 - 1d6; this represents their generally/likely lower standing.

General Commentary -
I'm flexible; really I am. If there's a Paizo option that you're not sure is allowed, ask; if there's something you're interested in, ask. Understand, though, that because I do not possess the feat-chain of Pathfinder Mastery, Improved Pathfinder Mastery, and Greater Pathfinder Mastery, I am using a program (Hero Lab) to create and double-check your characters. Any nonstandard variation (like Ariael's two trait requests above) may require me to code something so that I can put it into the program. While I can do it - and I've done a lot of it - I do not necessarily want to spend the time it'll take to do it. Functionally, this leans my decision away from allowing things that require programming (such as the gnome-into-elf racial trait above), while minor thematic variations (such as the locale variation request above) are more likely to gain approval if you can refluff it. Sticking closer to Paizo-as-written and/or asking for clarifications instead of violations (so to speak) will make things faster and/or easier to gain approval, basically.

As a reminder to those of you who have selected alternate race traits:
You may not select ARTs that possess additional RP (Racial Point) values. I recall having seen some of them out there; they are not permitted. I've said it previously to specific people, I was pretty sure I mentioned it in an 'all hands' portion of commentary, but just in case I didn't, I'm doing so now.

You may not select ARTs that possess additional RP (Racial Point) values. I recall having seen some of them out there; they are not permitted.

What exactly are these? The SRD lists RP values for a number of ARTs (specifically any that can be taken by more than one race), but these don't actually increase the RP value of the race, just say the RP they're worth so people know they're replacing a feature of equivalent value.

For instance: Fey Thoughts (which I'm potentially going with) is listed as "1 RP" on the SRD—but not in other sources, which simply list the abilities it can replace—Multitalented, Hatred, and Racial Weapon Training, all of which are 1 RP abilities. Looking again at the Half-Elf, we see that Dragon Soul "(4 RP" replaces Adaptability, Elf Blood, and Elven Immunities (together worth 1+1+2 RP), while giving a benefit similar to several 4 RP abilities. Dimdweller is worth exactly 2 RP, replacing a 2 RP ability, and has "(2 RP)" listed in its description to explain that it's replacing a 2 RP trait with a different 2 RP trait.

(or am I missing something here?)

I am actually struggling on what to spend the gold on for my Oracle. No freaking clue what I want for the bigger purchase. Any suggestions would be welcome.

I honestly couldn't reasonably suggest anything until there was more to look at; it's like trying to recommend a place to eat without knowing anything about what the person enjoys.

Like he said. What kind of Oracle is it?

edit: ninja'd, but i'll leave this post here with the 'Heroes of the Wild' quote and page number for reference.

You may not select ARTs that possess additional RP (Racial Point) values.

Does this apply only to the non-core races who would be adding the ART at the cost of RP, instead of swapping it out for a default trait like a core race would, or does it mean that everyone in general is barred from using things like 'Fey Thoughts'?

'A character with such a background may select one or more feyborn racial traits. Such racial traits replace one or more normal racial traits for your race. If you are using the race builder rules from Pathfinder RPG Advanced Race Guide, the Race Point (RP) cost for each feyborn racial trait is given. Otherwise, each trait lists the racial trait it replaces if taken by a member of one of the eight core races.'

Two cases, for clarity:

EX:
a-Human swaps out 'Skilled' for Fey Magic.
b-Goblin adds Fey Magic for the cost of 2 RP.

I'm pretty sure Case b is not allowed; Case a is the real question, I believe.

bonus edit:

...What exactly are these? The SRD lists RP values for a number of ARTs (specifically any that can be taken by more than one race), but these don't actually increase the RP value of the race, just say the RP they're worth so people know they're replacing a feature of equivalent value...

They actually decrease it sometimes.

I did not intend for anyone to think I was deriding anyone for anything. I'm sorry if that was the impression people got from my post. I also wasn't remarking about you as a gm either, I was just trying to show why it was being such a sticky point for me as some suggested I should be able to randomly pick one and make it work, which I figured primarily stems from being unusual in my play/build style.

I am probably sticking my nose where it doesn't belong but I wanted to help. Along with ThunderBeard's advice, think of the story feats as a short story within the backstory. We gain the completion benefits of the story feat so that means that particular journey has come to an end and you have moved on. It may no longer be a motivation anymore in some cases. I too had some trouble with one of my characters until I thought about it this way. Based on your backstory (and the DM is right, it's still a hot mess) I can see a few that would work. Bandits are a major theme so something like Vengeance or Foeslayer could work. It looks like Myrza moved to Rostland (I assume since Brevoy is not a city, its the country) about half way through her career. Woman from the sticks in a big city. Shamed stands out or maybe Betrayed. Whatever you choose, these can have a lot or no impact on who the character is now.

Mechanically, it seems like you are leaning towards Hunter (Feral Hunter). If you keep those stats that is probably a bad idea. Feral Hunter is a lot like a magus using magic to augment physical abilities for combat so a high strength or dex is optimal. But I digress. You said you craft the backstory first then find a build that fits it. I couldn't get sense of what class you would start as but as the story continues, and obvious choice came up.

Myrza moves to a city a learns a new kind of magic, I assume different from the one Therona taught her. It is something different and flexible. Arcane magic most likely. This points towards Mystic Theurge. Its a prestige class that combines a divine and arcane and you could take the first level by 7. Maybe 3 cleric or druid first and 3 wizard later. It's not an optimal choice since you won't get the most powerful spells from either but you'd be extremely flexible.

This is why slavishly using one reference isn't always a good idea. That's a chiding of myself as well, please note.

You are correct, Case B is not allowed. Case A, however, is; this reverses a previous decision/statement of mine, when I was relying solely on the whole 'X trait (Y RP)' thing, back on the first two or four pages of the recruitment.

At the core of it, if your desired alternate racial trait has a Paizo reference to the swap, it's allowed - these things don't have the (X RP) reference in Hero Lab, which means I don't notice. Do note that from what I can tell on a bit more of an examination, all of these are fully balanced, point-wise; humans may give up Skilled (4 RP) for Fey Magic (2 RP), but in doing so they also automatically receive both Fey Thoughts (1 RP) and Low-Light Vision (1 RP), balancing them out with Skilled's 4 RP cost.

HOWEVER. Instead of just going by the d20PFSRD site (or in my case, the Hero Lab bits), we really do need to check into the fluff of the thing. A human such as above is not just swapping out a racial trait for three others, they are Feyborn.

Those who hold the wilds dear often have traces of the fey in them. Some have fey ancestors in their pasts, while others come from lineages that absorbed fey power from places linked to the First World. Any race or group may have a few feyborn among its members; these feyborn are often called fetch, wildbloods, or First Children. They tend to have skin, hair, and eye coloration that lie outside the norms for their races, and that may even change with the seasons (white in winter, green in spring) or with the terrain they are in.

It is wise to look into these things; I'm certainly going to start doing so, because this stuff is more than just 'something practical for my character', it's a quirk/oddity that can have a resounding impact on your character's background.

Zayne, good advice; I got nothing to add. ;)

Oh, right. Sorry. Voting for fame/honor/prestige completely slipped my mind.
Anyway, I'm voting for Fame, and my circle of influence would be centered a few miles east of Restov, where the Auram Chain is found.

Indeed Zayne, Myrza is headed for mystic theurge.
I appreciate the help. Even if someone's idea isn't used, it still spurs thought and discussion, which are valuable things. And sometimes discovery (The prd didn't have Betrayed. I had to look it up elsewhere. Oh, how much do I hate using pfsrd, even if it is lots better organized.)

I envision Myrza as being somewhat like a monk but with a greater focus on mind and magic instead of on body, but still maintaining that wise way of thinking. That is why she is a guard rather than a more offensive mercenary. She seeks to protect others from her pain rather than punish the guilty for it.

Interestingly, this monkish aspect is what makes vengeance, shamed, betrayed, and foeslayer unsuitable.

Actually, the best fitting ones are lost legacy and eldritch researcher. Lost legacy can come after her since it isn't a motivation to action like the others, but it also brings back the nobility element which has been discarded already, though it might deal with her draconic heritage instead I guess. Eldritch researcher requires creating spells which, considering all the back-n-forth stuff of creating a character has been, is probably a bad idea.

Hunter and bard are the classes. Hunter is wordcaster and bard is normal. All the chargen choices for Myrza, aside from equipment, is listed in her profile.

As a word caster, which I just looked up that stuff, Eldritch Researcher could be of great benefit. You'd be inventing a lot of new spells. Someone pointed out a neat one, Wall of Command (Drop). That's new and would probably benefit from the story feat. And it ties in inherently to the character. So I don't see the issue. But you'd technically never be able to finish that until level 20. That's the soonest you'd be able to get level 6 spells.

But I think I now see the problem. I thought the story feats were supposed to be complete, not just initiated.

DM-about story feats. I just realized the campaign info says we get a free story feat that has been initiated. Can they be complete too? I may have assumed wrongly that they could.

Wyrm,

Could I re-flavor Arcane Dabbler to be due to having fey blood in my veins?

Are there planar convergences with Golarion and the First World? If not, maybe I'll have Ariael just be blessed by an Eldest(likely undetermined until I can read First World over) at birth, hence all the fey traits he possesses.

I'll rethink my main character's choice of weapon. I'm considering lance for the charge and then some kind of sword for while in the fray.

A few questions:

• What is your take on the teamwork feat Escape Route and how it works with the player's mount? Many use it to move freely without the fear of provoking.

• The animal companion archetype Charger receives the ability Mounted Challenge. This ability activates when a Cavalier uses their Challenge ability, but the ability Mounted Challenge replaces the ability Share Spells which is an ability that the mount of a Cavalier does not get. How would you like to handle this?
  

Here is at least most of my Oracle. I am still a little torn on the Mythic path that I want to take her down but I think I will be going with the Trickster.

The gear is not on the profile since I am still going back and forth on some of it. She will also be paying for 4 covered wagons. That will give 24 people a place. Counting my oracle, cohort, and followers I have 25 people but there will be people on watches during the night so I assume I will not suffer. I think? But assuming is dangerous :D

Mechanically Emma will have some ability to get into melee but that is not her place. She is meant to be mage. She does not have a profession but will be using her preforms to earn gold if she needs to, or when she is bored. I kind of want her to work towards being able to play and dance like Lindsey Stirling. Anyone not familiar with her should check out the link. That is what a bards fight should look like, in my humble opinion.

@Zayne, I thought it was completed too. Maybe it changed along the way?

I got the impression that the point of story feats was to give the gm a hook to use on the players, a storyline centered on the player that gm can weave into the main story to give the pcs a motivation to go places and confront foes needed to progress the overall story.

But maybe that is just because I do that, save that I don't use mechanics for pc motivations, I grab straight from bg or better yet, from the player's portrayal of the pc.

Of course, story feats serve that purpose mainly if uncompleted.

Darivan -
That'll change as the campaign advances.

Zayne / DeviousDevious / Alicorn Sage -
You get the story feat free, with its prerequisites waived (presumed recently fulfilled, even if it clashes with the reality, i.e. not having 10 fight-ready followers for Stronghold). You are starting from Ground Zero on completion. This is the way it's always been, though I'll concede I may have not been absolutely crystal clear and stated the fact that though you receive the feat started, you do not receive it completed. Yes, it is to assist in motivations. However, it isn't to assist me in figuring out what your motivation is; it's to help you determine where it is you want your character to go.

Ariael -
(I always want to just write 'Ariel' there.)

Arcane Dabbler being reflavored is cool. Will be interesting when it comes time to review your character. Planar convergences ... I suspect we're thinking of different things. If you basically mean temporary gateways that the fey use to come across, and/or that people can fall through (per se), then yes, they exist, but they tend to be momentary things, or 'one night of fey revelry, gone come the dawn.'

Lucky Halfling -
Lance, then sword, is traditional for the knight.

Re: Escape Route
Going by even its fluff phrasing, this is not something that can be done literally simultaneously, as in a person on a mount, each of them 'covering the other one's back'. This is A standing guard as B retreats, then B standing guard as A retreats. Both cannot be moving at the same time; this is what a tactical withdrawl means.

Re: Mounted Challenge
I agree with the unofficial errata sidebar.

Emma Holt -
Hadn't seen that Stirling vid; nice. I like Radioactive better, but that's probably because I'm a singer and a diehard sucker for cello.

Regarding the gear - while you can purchase magic items for your people, items purchased for another still fall within the item limit of the destination. Since the magic item limits are actually more restrictive than standard (1/3rd, 1/6th, then any 1/12th), cohorts and followers should have no problem affording their magic items. Effectively, therefore, don't bother.

Sam C. -
The background was inside the rough build; it's a good background, so I figured I'd comment on it, just with that reminder.

Re: Wisdom/Flesh - No, you aren't forced to use your Willpower. And looking through it, there are few abilities that give you Acrobatics as a class skill, so there ya go. ;)

The 'truly impressive' and the 'equal to a sage' are less a matter of the technicals of the characters built and more in regards to your fluff.

Let me first say that I like what you've done; what follows is not a criticism of you, but instead a window into my own thought processes and observations, how I write and how I think about the world which I'm playing for your enjoyment.

Anyhow. The Wyrm's thought processes on word choice and world building. Again as I said, I like what you've done; it's a very good group, and your effort shows. Thank you for putting them together. :)

I love your extropolation of how many people exist of each level, of course it only highlights how mismatched different aspects of the system are from the simulationist standpoint.

I am curious what a lvl 0 is, since I've never heard that term used for 3.x based systems. (I've only heard it used for first/second edition) Unless you mean lvl 1 npc class, since pf places npc lvls one lvl behind pc lvls. Otherwise, as far as I know, the lowest a creature can be is lvl 1.

Huh! Hadn't thought of the "medieval demesne"/metro area approach to populations. That would explain why so many of the cities in Golarion are so small! (especially vs cities like Absalom). Cool thought.

The 'skillmule expert follower' was in reference to Lillana's presence in the party, and her backstory. I figured an aristocrat would be an interesting follower choice in lieu of a third expert, and then tried to come up with a reasonable, plausible explanation for why a noble would be a member of the group and subordinate to a non-noble leader.l

But everything else has been tweaked or fixed per your suggestions. If Lillana passes muster, and nothing else needs polishing, then I think I'm done fiddling with the characters' details.

Ooookay. A few minor ideas changed, but I've changed the spreadsheet as well. Now have an alias for Orvin, and an updated version 2 of Anton. Complete except for additional feedback-driven changes.

(quick summary of noteworthy changes: made changes to backstory, sold ring of trickster, spent additional cash on jewelry and fancy wine and picked up Hedonist drawback)

I liked that video for the battle part of it. Radioactive or Shatter Me are probably my favorites. The cello is one of my favorite instruments but it is harder to move around than a violin. I was only really intending to buy some of the gear and that all should fall under the wagons and the stuff on them. The only exception was the efficient quiver for her sister.

This is the most I've ever learned from a recruitment thread! Haha. Love it.

Just going to keep a close eye on here as we draw closer to the closing date. Not a very talkative person outside of games.

I am curious what a lvl 0 is, since I've never heard that term used for 3.x based systems. (I've only heard it used for first/second edition) Unless you mean lvl 1 npc class, since pf places npc lvls one lvl behind pc lvls. Otherwise, as far as I know, the lowest a creature can be is lvl 1.

Generally it is a term used to refer to characters who haven't yet had enough training in any area to be considered members of a class. Usually it refers to children and young adults who have not hit the system's age of maturity. It was an optional rule in 2nd Edition, and while there are no rules for it in 3.5 or Pathfinder, the terminology holds over and gets used a lot in the community.

Thank you for the clarification and insight. I forgot that d20pfsrd.com posts errata on the relevant pages. I honestly tend to stick to archivesofnethys.com, but it's a bit behind on it's updates.

Armed with the knowledge of that errata, I'm considering the Racer archetype for the mount of his cohort.

I've spent some time reassessing my options and I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to switch my main over to a Paladin of Iomedae. I'm looking at the Shining Knight archetype and have him use the divine fighting technique of his deity to inspire his troops.

I'm considering an Oath of Loyalty as well. This will go well with the My Word is My Bond trait I've given him.

How is Wicehrabia pronounced?

How is Wicehrabia pronounced?

vit͡sˈxra.bʲja

Vitz-hrahb-eya (with the "h" and "r" rolled together). Here is a link to someone actually pronouncing the second part, which means count in Polish.

Edit: "W" is always "v" in Polish, so the first part is prounounced "Vits" or "Vitz" like "kits" or "Ritz."

"The Lucky Halfling" wrote:

How is Wicehrabia pronounced?

vit͡sˈxra.bʲja

Vitz-hrahb-eya (with the "h" and "r" rolled together). Here is a link to someone actually pronouncing the second part, which means count in Polish.

Thank you for the assistance, Pendrak.

Vits Hrabya?

Aka 'Viscount' - less than an Earl/Count, greater than a Baron. Typically has two to four baronies under their direction.

I use the term 'level 0' person to refer to generally-statless NPCs - the farmers who get overrun by the bandits/goblins/adventure-target-of-the-day, the servant or barmaids at the inn, the menial day-laborers who turn their hands to anything that'll pay them enough to put bread on the table tonight. IMNSHO, even if the technicals of PF and 3.5 say differently, the 'class level' character (PC or NPC) is an unusual duck in the flock - they're someone who has more than 1 point in skills, who doesn't have a Build Point total of -2, who is willing to pick up a spear and stand in the line of battle (which a lot of people are not).

Anyhow. I'm going to go through the people a lot faster - concentrate on the backgrounds, how backgrounds match up in general with how you're expressing it, that sort of thing; money-spending might wait, just so that I can get more people's important stuff (i.e. your fluff/background) reviewed.

Here are Bartek Yaroslav and Kliment Yaroslav, brother's whose mission is to reduce the banditry coming from the Stolen Lands.

I still need to finish the 2nd through 4th level followers that Bartek has, add a brief intro to Kliment's page above his stat block and giving a brief intro to each group of followers and why they are following Bartek in Bartek's page.

I would like to submit them as complete now though for review as their mechanics and backstory are not going to change other than to conform with your feedback GM TWO.

Hi Wyrm, I believe Acaciano and Tai Reen are ready for a look-over. Feedback appreciated.

Cheers

Kaellin Greenleaf and Sylvara Greenleaf are ready for review.

I was going to wait until I had transplanted their info into their profile page, but the messageboard didn't save my 2 hours of work, so I have to restart. In the meantime, I hope the google sheets are understandable enough to get feedback from.

Where do I find out how much ch it costs to buy a stronghold?

Lucky Halfling -
Racer seems appropriate for your cohort. :) And Oathbound seems very appropriate for such a character - though there are always going to be significant issues between your oath to your god (which takes priority) and that oath you may swear to the king. This sort of character is going to be especially careful to reserve his oaths to his goddess as being paramount.

Rostram, DeviousDevious, Kain Gallant -
Thanks for the update, will put them in line. Kain, I'll appreciate you moving them over to their profile aliases ASAP but, y'know, "Tuan volgen oketh ama."

derpdidruid -
Did I miss you saying (after my big post a page or so ago) that William and Winnie Lawsrick were ready for review?

LetcherMan69
Presuming this question is about the Stronghold feat, I seem to recall having benchmarked a 'small keep' (equivalent to a stronghold) as being the equivalent worth of a holy avenger - or roughly 120,000 gp. However, a stronghold can mean many different things, and the point of the feat is not to fork out enough money to buy one outright, it's to establish one.

I don't mean to be annoying or needy but can you work with me on the dragon thing I'm kinda feeling the flavor.

I want my dragon bf, but I don't want to have to break my character to do it. So i'm asking is there any way I can get a bonus on my leadership score for dragons. I'm not suggesting you just give it to me but maybe I sacrifice a feet.
I'm think something like a
Trait: Draconic Line + 4 On Leadership score to deal dragons
Feat: Blood Kin You ignore CR when calculating Cohort levels.

Optimistically, LetcherMan69

Oh, hell no. Give you an incredibly powerful cohort for the cost of a single trait or feat? Do I look insane?? (Don't answer that, it was rhetorical.) If you were going to get a bonus sufficient to improve your leadership, it'd be a feat chain, probably three full feats for the one you're suggesting. That, however, is essentially immaterial; let me bring you through the math to show you why.

First, let's figure out the appropriate CR of your 'boyfriend'. Since you don't include any vague sort of idea as to what kind of dragon you're talking about, we'll do a 'minimal review'. Going by alignment restrictions, the available ones would be any of the metallics (brass, bronze, copper, gold, and silver), three types of imperial dragons (sea, sky, and sovereign), and two types of primal (brine and crystal). The lowest CR amongst them would be 2 (Crystal), followed by 3 (Brass, Brine) and 4 (Sea, Copper). We'll stick with 2, the primal crystal dragon. (The 'alignment match' note in leadership sort of makes it a requirement for you to match the dragon's alignment, so CG it is.)

The youngest age-class a 'dragon lover' could possibly be without being extremely unsettling - or rather, the minimum age class a dragon would have to be to be interested in being a lover - would be 5, Young Adult. This places its CR at (Base + 7), or for our young adult crystal dragon, 9. This isn't the youngest dragon cohort you can attract; this is the youngest dragon cohort you can attract that would be interested in being 'a lover', by which one presumes you mean sex.

Now, according to the Leadership feat, a dragon's ECL (effective cohort level) is equivalent to its CR (7 - which is what you wanted me to allow you to spend a single feat to ignore) + 8. That makes your dragon lover's ECL a 15, which you'd need a minimum Leadership Score of 21 to acquire. About the max you can get right now would be a 20 - 7 from character level, 6 from CHA (18, +2 racial, +2 item = 22), +1 from Natural-Born Leader, +3 from Dynasty Builder + 2 renown + 1 fairness = 20, or a maximum cohort level of 14th - 1 short.

However, the level restrictions on cohorts still apply; without a class feature that improves the maximum level (and there actually is one out there, though I can't find it now and I can't recall if it's Paizo or not) or a feat/ability that does it (such as one of the mythic ones I'll be using), the maximum level a cohort of a 7th-level character can be is ... 5th level. 5th level doesn't take care of either the dragon's CR (7) or the ECL boost (+8), much less both of them.

So you would like to gain an effectively 15th-level character as a cohort, when your maximum is 5th? Well, while you may be 'kinda feeling the flavor' I'm 'kinda feeling the OP'. So I think you'll be waiting until 17th level, 15th if you acquire the appropriate feats, to acquire your dragon lover.

And because I am an assh0le. I reserve lots of rights - the right ... to take a phone book to you if you think your special snowflake deserves special treatment.

Consider yourself phonebooked.

Don't want to rain on the phonebook parade *too* much, but thanks to Legacy of Dragons, there are now a bunch of different ways get a dragon at our starting level.

Granted, each of those archetypes trades away a LOT for what is essentially a shiny pet—your dragon wouldn't be medium until level 9, or large until level 13 (and since it's a drake, it would be less combat-effective than an ordinary chromatic dragon of its size—but also a bit more obedient). (So you'd need to be small to ride it anytime soon, since the wording of Mount seems to preclude the Undersized Mount feat—your drake thinks that's dumb and doesn't want to carry its own weight on its back). Still, if you want your character's entire premise to be "has dragon," there might be a way to do it, as long as you have an explanation of why your character devoted so much time and energy to getting one, why for some reason it respects you, and how you deal with people's reaction to it (drakes ain't exactly common in cities, and while a commoner might not be able to tell it from a wyvern or a pseudodragon, anyone with a lot of arcane knowledge is gonna make a big deal out of it—or anyone who's, y'know, afraid of dragons). If you do go this route, I suggest the Silver Champion Paladin (possibly multiclassing into Drake Rider Cavalier after 5th level) to get the drake power, as you get very few, and mount would otherwise set the power of your draconic buddy back quite a bit.

A man who was inspired by the stories of the knights of Aroden and Iomedae that he grew up on, takes to the western front to hopefully make a name for himself. It is there that he is recognized for his accomplishments upon the battlefield and he stoic demeanor. The first to enter the fray and the last to leave, guard those around you, and honor the sacrifice freely given. These tenets and a word of steel, bring him the title of knight despite his lack of noble title.

It was upon those lands to the west that he meets a fiery kelishite woman, carrying the fighting style of her grandfather. She took his breath away and inspired him to do all that he could to protect her. It was a process, but over time they grew to love each other. He finds it hard, every time that he watches her approach the enemy without him, but he puts his faith in her abilities.

This man is followed by soldiers that he has trained in the art of battle. Believing in redemption, each has been trained to use their weapon to knock out their opponent.

This is a simple and quick paraphrasing of what I hope to create, but I thought it prudent to put something more up for your consideration before it got too much closer to the deadline.

This character is looking at a leadership score of around 22, which in turn will leave him with a single level 6 follower. Might I ask that you supply me with the building criteria for such a character?

This was also a bit hastily written from my phone before heading into work, so please forgive any typos. If something is a amiss, please feel free to let me know and I'll take it into consideration in future posts.

This character is looking at a leadership score of around 22, which in turn will leave him with a single level 6 follower. Might I ask that you supply me with the building criteria for such a character?

Holy smoke, how did you get a Leadership score of 22? 7 for level, maybe 6 CHA, and the other bonuses the GM gave for 3 only gets you to 16. There is a trait that gives a +1, so maybe 17 with that. A stronghold would bring you all the way to 19, but I'm still not seeing how you got to 22. Am I missing something?

"The Lucky Halfling" wrote:

This character is looking at a leadership score of around 22, which in turn will leave him with a single level 6 follower. Might I ask that you supply me with the building criteria for such a character?

Holy smoke, how did you get a Leadership score of 22? 7 for level, maybe 6 CHA, and the other bonuses the GM gave for 3 only gets you to 16. There is a trait that gives a +1, so maybe 17 with that. A stronghold would bring you all the way to 19, but I'm still not seeing how you got to 22. Am I missing something?

Using the list of Leadership sources GM Two provided a few post up, 20 is possible. Then there's the Battle Herald prestige class which adds +1 Leadership as a 1st-level ability, and can be taken very early.

Using the list of Leadership sources GM Two provided a few post up, 20 is possible.

Ah, I see that now. But even with Dynasty Founder and that Prestige Class you'd only get to 21. And Dynasty Founder would only allow up to 5th level cohorts, as a side note.

"The Lucky Halfling" wrote:

This character is looking at a leadership score of around 22, which in turn will leave him with a single level 6 follower. Might I ask that you supply me with the building criteria for such a character?

Holy smoke, how did you get a Leadership score of 22? 7 for level, maybe 6 CHA, and the other bonuses the GM gave for 3 only gets you to 16. There is a trait that gives a +1, so maybe 17 with that. A stronghold would bring you all the way to 19, but I'm still not seeing how you got to 22. Am I missing something?

I've actually found that you can get a leadership score of 26 if you really want to invest into it. For this particular character, I achieved a leadership score of 22 with the following:

• 7 - Level 7
  
• 4 - 18 Charisma
  
• 3 - Diadem of inspiring rule magic item
  
• 3 - Dynasty founder story feat
  
• 2 - Great renown leadership adjustment
  
• 1 - Fairness and generosity leadership adjustment
  
• 1 - Natural-born leader basic (social) trait
  
• 1 - Social ties alternate human racial trait
  

Don't want to rain on the phonebook parade *too* much, but thanks to Legacy of Dragons, there are now a bunch of different ways get a dragon at our starting level.

Tell a true dragon that a drake is even close enough and you won't live to finish the sentence. Drakes are not dragons and those companions are awful. 12 str and small size at our level. I have a large sized mountain lion that would murder that thing in a round. There is though, a 3pp class called dragon rider that is surprisingly well balanced. But 3pp is not allowed.

There is though, a 3pp class called dragon rider that is surprisingly well balanced. But 3pp is not allowed.

...by completely changing both the mechanics and fluff of how dragons work...

* * *

Honestly? The Drake Companion options are pretty interestingly-balanced. Drakes aren't chromatic, but they are full dragon-type, which means a host of immunities, tons of skill points, larger feat list, more HP, better saves, natural armor that scales with BAB, branching mobility growth, and most importantly the fact that you've got an intelligent, talking companion. Of course it's not going to be as good at what a mountain lion does best (just all the other things, because a cat companion is really specialized for only one type of battle and nothing else). I just figured, since it's a very new splatbook (and IIRC there was other mention of dragons earlier), I'd let people know that this is an option you can now build with canonical rules, since those are very important to the GM.