Community & Social Media Specialist
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Paizo has announced layoffs and adjustments to the product schedule due to financial hardship. Please read today's blog for more information and use this forum thread for discussion.
As always, please keep our forums cordial and please give Paizo employees space to process this difficult transition.
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Brutal news to read. I'm so sorry to everyone impacted.
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What grim reading.
up the Union.
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Dang, really sorry to read that. :/
I was hoping no news might be good news on the Diamond mess...
I'm sorry to hear this news, I hope all those affected land on their feet. I myself was hit by layoffs in 2023, it's really hard to navigate those waters.
Diamond’s exclusive contract prevented us from immediately moving to a new distributor, even after they stopped selling our books. A judge terminated that contract earlier this year, but Diamond has appealed, delaying resolution.
That's messed up by Diamond... I hope you guys hear soon and it's in your favor...
That horrible!
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can someone who knows more about the law tell me why diamond is incentivized to appeal the termination of an exclusive contract to provide a service they are no longer actually providing
In one section you mention how ORC and Infinite may have a role in helping support P/SFS: "It's time to evolve Organized Play using a tool perfect for transitioning the campaigns to its dedicated players: the Open RPG Creative License (ORC) and the Pathfinder and Starfinder Infinite publishing programs. "
However in the later section it is exclusively mentioning Infinite. And ORC and Infinite are exclusive to each other.
I think in the context of PFS/SFS it makes sense to be Infinite only -- you want stories that are ground in the PF/SF universes/lore and hence Infinite. But the mention of ORC in the introduction feels odd.
Is there a role for ORC, non-Infinite?
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can someone who knows more about the law tell me why diamond is incentivized to appeal the termination of an exclusive contract to provide a service they are no longer actually providing
Because the law is written to serve wealth, not logic. I'm sorry if that comes across as a bit glib, but that is the crux of it. :-/
Personally I think the more pertinent question might be why is Diamond even being allowed to appeal said termination? They are explicitly failing to hold up their end of the contract, and from what little I remember of contracts from business law, that should be the game right there. But obviously I am not a lawyer -- thank heaven -- so wtf do I know? ;-)
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My deepest and sincerest sympathies for all of the people affected by the layoffs.
What grim reading.
up the Union.
I'm not sure what you mean here, but I'm interpreting, "Up the Union," as "the Union should be doing more for the workers affected. My read of Jim's account is that the severance plan was almost certainly negotiated with union input. We're likely looking at a situation where Paizo itself hemorrhages money and dies if it tries to pay more salaries than it can afford. It's terrible, but if the option is, "Lose some jobs but keep most," versus, "Keep all jobs for Y time until everyone loses their job," then I can see how this situation was as difficult as Jim said. Ultimately, ire is likely better placed at the feet of Diamond rather than Paizo or PWU.
I'm cautiously hopeful that Jim Butler mentioned something about a "recall" over an 18 month period. I'm not really sure what that means, but hopefully it means something like, "If we can fix things we'll offer you your position back."
In one section you mention how ORC and Infinite may have a role in helping support P/SFS: "It's time to evolve Organized Play using a tool perfect for transitioning the campaigns to its dedicated players: the Open RPG Creative License (ORC) and the Pathfinder and Starfinder Infinite publishing programs. "
However in the later section it is exclusively mentioning Infinite. And ORC and Infinite are exclusive to each other.
I think in the context of PFS/SFS it makes sense to be Infinite only -- you want stories that are ground in the PF/SF universes/lore and hence Infinite. But the mention of ORC in the introduction feels odd.
Is there a role for ORC, non-Infinite?
I'm not a Paizo developer, but I am an Infinite Master. My thoughts are that the Infinite Program was specifically designed to allow authors to write stories and content in the Golarion / Pact Worlds setting, and offering society scenarios that don't take place on Paizo settings sort of defeats the purpose. Like, Society is supposed to be a place for Paizo fans to game in Paizo's world. It would be like asking for an Elder Scrolls Player content not set on Tamriel. Like, sure, you could do it. But what's the point?
I'm cautiously interested in this expansion of Infinite. It would sure be fun to get to write a scenario or two that use content from Kitsune of Golarion.
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can someone who knows more about the law tell me why diamond is incentivized to appeal the termination of an exclusive contract to provide a service they are no longer actually providing
If I had to guess, the exclusivity contract with Paizo is considered an asset of Diamond that's of value to their creditors
I'm not a Paizo developer, but I am an Infinite Master. My thoughts are that the Infinite Program was specifically designed to allow authors to write stories and content in the Golarion / Pact Worlds setting, and offering society scenarios that don't take place on Paizo...In one section you mention how ORC and Infinite may have a role in helping support P/SFS: "It's time to evolve Organized Play using a tool perfect for transitioning the campaigns to its dedicated players: the Open RPG Creative License (ORC) and the Pathfinder and Starfinder Infinite publishing programs. "
However in the later section it is exclusively mentioning Infinite. And ORC and Infinite are exclusive to each other.
I think in the context of PFS/SFS it makes sense to be Infinite only -- you want stories that are ground in the PF/SF universes/lore and hence Infinite. But the mention of ORC in the introduction feels odd.
Is there a role for ORC, non-Infinite?
I 100% agree that Infinite is the right beast for 3p Society because they need to still be coupled to the campaign's setting. I was just surprised by the refence to ORC in the blog post -- that seemed out of place.
Brutal news to read. I'm so sorry to everyone impacted.
Same. As usual, it always seems to be the little guy that takes the brunt of...well, just about everything. :-(
This is horrible news. I pray for those impacted by the RIT's. Been there before, not a fun situation.
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All understandable, but a bummer nonetheless. The stuff with Diamond is awful and I hope it resolves in Paizo's favor soon.
I'll use this opportunity to bang my drum again re:the need for PDF subscriptions for APs (also PDF + Foundry bundles). I'd love to give Paizo $ every month for a product that costs nothing to print or ship.
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In one section you mention how ORC and Infinite may have a role in helping support P/SFS: "It's time to evolve Organized Play using a tool perfect for transitioning the campaigns to its dedicated players: the Open RPG Creative License (ORC) and the Pathfinder and Starfinder Infinite publishing programs. "
However in the later section it is exclusively mentioning Infinite. And ORC and Infinite are exclusive to each other.
I think in the context of PFS/SFS it makes sense to be Infinite only -- you want stories that are ground in the PF/SF universes/lore and hence Infinite. But the mention of ORC in the introduction feels odd.
Is there a role for ORC, non-Infinite?
Well adventure paths and stand-alone adventures wouldn't necessarily have to be grounded in Paizo IP. My Sky Kings Tomb table I am running for credit is in-universe but its not hard to imagine a similar story without Paizo IP. And frankly the Infinite license was not great last time I read through it so it would be a deal breaker for me. my last read-through of the Infinite License (the full text license changelog indicates it was last updated 2023, so my opinion is unchanged EDIT: i guess these links no longer work. Look at my post history and scroll to Aug 20, 2024 and Aug 21, 2024).
Regardless, sad news to hear all around. I do appreciate there will be able to be community content for the organized play programs. This was something I had asked about ~6 years ago for the card game society when it turned legacy. Just sad that this is what it takes for org play community content to be opened up.
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Marketing & Media Specialist
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I'm cautiously hopeful that Jim Butler mentioned something about a "recall" over an 18 month period. I'm not really sure what that means, but hopefully it means something like, "If we can fix things we'll offer you your position back."
This is essentially exactly what it means. Any affected employees will have first rights to new job postings in their category, should those be made in the next 18 months.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4
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Brutal to see things land where they have. It's hard across a lot of industries right now. I know it's been a million years, but if there's any way I can help you know where to find me. I hope all the irons in the fire help get things back on course as soon as they can. Y'all deserve better.
Much love <3
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My deepest and sincerest sympathies for all of the people affected by the layoffs.
I'm not sure what you mean here, but I'm interpreting, "Up the Union," as "the Union should be doing more for the workers affected.What grim reading.
up the Union.
no, and I'll thank you not to put words in my mouth, especially for strawman purposes. it's a common expression of support for the union and for all workers.
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CEO
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can someone who knows more about the law tell me why diamond is incentivized to appeal the termination of an exclusive contract to provide a service they are no longer actually providingBecause the law is written to serve wealth, not logic. I'm sorry if that comes across as a bit glib, but that is the crux of it. :-/
Personally I think the more pertinent question might be why is Diamond even being allowed to appeal said termination? They are explicitly failing to hold up their end of the contract, and from what little I remember of contracts from business law, that should be the game right there. But obviously I am not a lawyer -- thank heaven -- so wtf do I know? ;-)
You're totally right here. When the guidelines come out, I suspect they will be Infinite-based and not ORC-based.
-Jim
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Wishing all those affected by the layoffs all the best. I hope you all are able to find the means to sustain yourselves and have the best opportunities in the midst of all this. It seems like a rough situation all around.
I don't very much care for Diamond and JP Morgan Chase to be blunt, this feels like a very scummy move from both of them.
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Echoing everyone else's sorrow that this has happened. My heart goes out to everyone affected, and I'll continue to support Paizo as much as I can. I moved to a new town last year and started buying books from a local tabletop shop to meet people, but I haven't lost my love for the wonders this company creates, and have been eagerly gobbling up almost every new Paizo release. I'm a fan for life, and I wish everyone here good luck weathering this storm. The world needs people like you.
Contributor
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I am devastated by this news - and filled with ire at Diamond for disputing Paizo’s right to find distribution when they are no longer fulfilling that service. You all know how I am usually the calm and measured voice of reason on these boards? Well, this detail makes me want to scream, rant, and cry all at once.
To all my beloved friends at Paizo who are losing their jobs in July, I am going to miss you all horribly. I have laughed with you at conventions, hugged you in person, and written for your products. You are each a shining light, and Paizo will not be the same without you.
I love you all so much.
With tears in my eyes,
Hmm
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This is so frustrating and sad to hear. Paizo has been my escape from (waves hand) everything that is wrong with the world rn.
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I'm devastated for those affected by all of this. Angry at Diamond, very angry at JP.
I think these changes are all great for Paizo. Direct to retailers I hope goes really, really well. Opening up scenario writing could be great.
I don't mean to step on any toes, but I believe the free non-society PDFs should have gone away a LONG time ago.
I hope you all recover quickly.
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My condolences to my former Paizo colleagues. Layoffs are hard, especially those precipitated by another organization’s bankruptcy. For many Paizonians this labor is their ikigai, if I understand the term correctly, that intersection of what they’re good at, what they love, what the world needs, and what they can be paid for. (And I can attest, those benefits were good.) Knowing that’s coming to an end for 12 people is rough. I’m hoping they all find new, meaningful adventures ahead.
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Picard's quote resonates hard here: "You can do everything right and still lose. That is not failure, that is life."
Terrible for Paizo to lose some talented and dedicated employees due to getting stuck in the legal and financial quagmire of Diamond's bankruptcy.
I hope everyone who loses their jobs lands on their feet, and finds fulfilling work and that Paizo can bounce back to retrieve these talents and restore Society play to its previous grandeur.
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Just a few days ago, a TTRPG kickstarter set a new record, raising over $16 million in under a month.
Instead of laying off 12 employees, give them the assignment to make an AP or a set of scenarios about taking on an evil bank and corrupt legal system, and fund it as a Kickstarter. Make it a crossover between SF2e and PF2e so people working on either setting can work on it, and everyone can play it. Might not be true, but I'm sure there's room to make a conspiracy theory blaming the Gap on a bank.
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My deepest sympathies for EVERYONE at Paizo.
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Damn, I was just taking to a co-worker about the Star Wars collection fiasco with Bricks & Minifigs today and brought up the Diamond bankruptcy. Talk about negative synchronicities. This clearly put Paizo in a bad spot and I know that layoffs were the last thing they'd want to do. Definitely some generous severance and callback rights to ease the sting a bit. What an awful situation for the industry as a whole.
--Between a Vrock and a Hard Place.
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Do we know who's being laid off? I imagine a lot of them will have Patreons, GoFundMes, and independent works available for purchase. I don't have much, but I'd like to help keep some people afloat while they look for new work. With as much joy as they've brought me, it's the least I can do.
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There's several former staff that were laid off today sounding off on bluesky, if you're looking for people to support, or boost on socials.
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Bad news. Hopefully to be followed by good news soon.
Speaking of soon, in our current legal system that word means "some time in the next decade or two". So much for swift justice. :-(
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This and the bricks and minifigs consignment case is really showing the legal loopholes in consignment. The deal is that in the US if you go bankrupt, you can 'lose' your list of what is and isn't consignment (it becomes the person who's product was consigned' responsibility to prove it.) is all lumped in the bankruptcy and the new potential owners (JP Morgan) can then say "I don't think that's yours/YOU need to prove it/get a court order." and sell it via third party markets to reduce the debt of the bankruptcy until then because as far as the law cares it can't prove who owns it, it just knows who is in possession of it and they have a legal obligation (a greedy capitalistic excuse) to get rid of all the debt, morals be damned because it's "Legal."
A lego franchise location can just file for bankruptcy and sell your $250,000 lego collection saying they don't know where the consignment paperwork is/that's the other parties responsibility and the new owner will come in with a financial incentive to disprove your claims because he now is making bank on your inventory while delaying the courts as much as possible by filing for appeal.
That's a super simplified non-lawyer breakdown (probably slightly off) of this situation and the Bricks and minifigs things you can go youtube right now and many videos by Stephen Glicker of Roll For Combat about Diamond specifically. It's the wild west and people in power (like JP Morgan who acquires these companies) have lobbied for these holes to exist. Even one of the biggest TTRPG/Comic distributions can be a consignment rug pull after being a monopoly/staple for years.
Now that's out of the way, I hope ya'll survive/do well. I think reducing society/organized play is a choice I can accept considering how many people are glyphfinders. I think everybody should play organized play as it's a great stepping stone to learning 'everything' that it means to play and enjoy it, but I don't need that many scenarios honestly and with less releases hopefully more of the metaplots are less spread out.
I think it's time to start lessening some of the policies/decisions forward like keeping page-accurate rules referencing that adds complication, time, cost and restriction (limits page count of remasters/working it together as we seen.) and doing more kickstarters like what y'all do for the Board Games. I know your business has always been Subscriptions -> Buy Inventory in big run at lower cost -> sell. I know in the past the conversations around a digital focused or only push is a fear of all the other product prices increasing, but here we are and prices are... Well, probably going to be increasing anyway as a result of this. It already has slowly.
Work with Foundry more in other avenues, the days of Pathfinder Online are behind us and while a cautionary tale, at some point, if this were to get worst, avenues need to be re-explored. We seen Mark Seifter/others leave just a few years ago over costs/pay. "If you want a future, step 1 has to be "Leave Paizo." And I really hope this all doesn't cause further damage as budgets become thinner, we got Jason Keeley back not that long ago, I don't want to see him leave again over this. Tech Core is almost in our grasp and there's a huge potential for a starfinder marketing push here. I think you guys could emphasize in marketing how more accessible SF2e can be and focus on the gap/doing your 'own' thing as a selling point.
I don't know. Consider things like absorbing/supporting parts of the community/creators like Team+. Get people in the community helping with materials. Mythkeeper, etc. Follow in the footsteps of what others have done with the system since. Like you guys are with Legacy of the Forge bringing scaling item DC's (Battlezoo made a name out of their Monster Parts/scaling item systems.) Address things that have been talked about for awhile, I've enjoyed seeing these things work their way in officially slowly over the years and I think customers will really enjoy it.
Thank you all for being transparent and allowing me to voice my condolences. We do appreciate the open communications.
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I'm sad to hear about this, but I do not blame Paizo. I'm pretty sure your loving community could raise a lot of money with a Kickstarter. Please consider letting us help. Meanwhile I am starting to buy some stuff from the Paizo store that I have been wanting anyway.
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Correction, because I don't really know/am just mad looking at the situation: I overemphasized the direct selling of goods still in dispute. Would of edited it, but didn't get to the edit button in time. It's very possible that these goods are not being sold and are in a form of legal hold hell instead. It's still incredibly immoral and I'm sure that detail doesn't make us dislike the situation any less.
So sorry to hear this. I hope to continue subscriptions in the little amount that I can help. I can't believe they can just hold your inventory like that. It's ridiculous.
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The issue with consignment goods being subject to bankruptcy liquidation isn't "I pretend I lost the paperwork that says it's yours," it's "you failed to follow the legally prescribed procedure to inform all other potential creditors in a potential bankruptcy that you have a superior interest in property held by Diamond, so that we won't lend them too much money when doing our due diligence on the assets vs. liabilities they have." The policy choice is that if the consignor can't be bothered to file the paperwork they accept the risk rather than put additional secret financing risk on other debtors.
It's the same as a mortgage bank forgetting to file their lien on your house. If you file for bankruptcy with a $5 million in debt, $2 million in real property (and no other assets) with a $1 million mortgage balance, they aren't going to get all of their mortgage money back because they didn't file their paperwork to be a secured vs unsecured creditor.
I am sorry, my thoughts go out to all the employees at Paizo.