Impossible Magic - General Discussion


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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Perpdepog wrote:

It was, according to Archives of Nethys, yeah.

Incidentally, High Seas content is already up on AoN; kudos!

I know, right? They've been pretty punctual for a while but the night before release seems kind of unprecedented. Gave a nice preview of what I was buying. At this rate Impossible Magic will drop some time in mid July!


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Xenocrat wrote:
I think Puppeteers will have some incentive to dump 6 (one strike) or 7 (none) out in their first turn to set up a picket line that can use that reactive strike thing on people who move

The reaction Bone Burst is weirdly not mentioned in KnowDirection's articles at all. I really hope it still exists.


Blave wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
I think Puppeteers will have some incentive to dump 6 (one strike) or 7 (none) out in their first turn to set up a picket line that can use that reactive strike thing on people who move
The reaction Bone Burst is weirdly not mentioned in KnowDirection's articles at all. I really hope it still exists.

With the changes to stop thralls from locking down the battlefield so much, this feels like a pretty natural cut for Paizo to have made. Maybe it's still there and the article just missed it, but I wasn't surprised by the absence.

Cognates

TheTownsend wrote:
BotBrain wrote:

I am starting to think we may see book of the dead wrapped into something else. It's getting piecemealed into a few places now (bone ship is in high seas). Be interesting to see if that's true.

Though of course, there have been reprints of something that then got remastered so who knows.

I'm pretty sure the bone ship was originally in Bestiary 3, as was coral capuchin, oddly enough. Though I do share your suspicion.

Huh. So it was. I guess I was thinking of the ghost captain which made the link in my mind. Still, flicking back through book of the dead there's some stuff in there that's definitely not ORC which would pose a problem for the quick remaster.


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Blave wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
I think Puppeteers will have some incentive to dump 6 (one strike) or 7 (none) out in their first turn to set up a picket line that can use that reactive strike thing on people who move
The reaction Bone Burst is weirdly not mentioned in KnowDirection's articles at all. I really hope it still exists.

I really hope it does. During my playtest of the necromancer, it was probably the most impactful thing in my toolbox, and rewarded stragetic positioning.


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Hey we got a look at the new Wizard Schools and some Feats.

Wizards..


*cue Caine meme*
WIZARDS !


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Mathfinder has a video up showing off some magus changes, looks cool. And it's confirmed it has psychic spell slot progression which is great for you magus players


Gaulin wrote:
Mathfinder has a video up showing off some magus changes, looks cool. And it's confirmed it has psychic spell slot progression which is great for you magus players

Which means summoner will be following the same progression. Honestly it is just a lot easier for people to figure out/handle than the wave casting which is a bit odd to keep track of.

I am curious if this means the more martial focused necro winds up with weapon/armor options like the magus. Not full martial but nudging that way.


Well, I was wrong. RIP wave casting I guess. F!@$.


I assume we'll be getting errata on Battle Harbinger to do the same.


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I'll repeat myself here:

The Necro might just have enough going on to warrant a martial class having the same spell slot progression. The Psychic really does not.

Still, I'm glad for all magus (and presumably summoner) players.


Magus got a major buff here, real buffs and QoL adjustments. I feel bad for the psychic, though.

Running recharge is the real gem and the mandatory pick at level 4. It solves all magus problems in one go.


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Crouza wrote:
Well, I was wrong. RIP wave casting I guess. F@%#.

Magus was a wave caster except not really because it got a bunch of extra slots later to make up for the lack of them it had due to wave casting.

This is a much simpler way of doing things and has the game working more consistently. These are good things.

Dark Archive

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Come on full spell casting summoner with aberration eidolon and synthesist feat line! *fingers quadruple crossed*

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Tridus wrote:
Crouza wrote:
Well, I was wrong. RIP wave casting I guess. F@%#.

Magus was a wave caster except not really because it got a bunch of extra slots later to make up for the lack of them it had due to wave casting.

This is a much simpler way of doing things and has the game working more consistently. These are good things.

That's true, the real buff is to Summoner. Unlike Magus, they didn't get the extra spell slots to work with built in (could take Fey Eidolon to get more at physical cost, or take a feat for an extra summoning spell, but tjat was about it).

I feel good for them.


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Gaulin wrote:
Mathfinder has a video up showing off some magus changes, looks cool. And it's confirmed it has psychic spell slot progression which is great for you magus players

Psychic continuing to suffer generational Ls in the remaster.


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Y'all buried the lede here on Gun Magus and Dual-Wield Magus. Finally, my arcane pirate dreams are realized. Finally, so many 5e Bladesinger builds can actually be converted. Finally, the complete roster of fighting styles are enmagussed.

All these changes are sick, Magus the official new golden child of the Remaster.


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Squiggit wrote:
Gaulin wrote:
Mathfinder has a video up showing off some magus changes, looks cool. And it's confirmed it has psychic spell slot progression which is great for you magus players
Psychic continuing to suffer generational Ls in the remaster.

I don't know why people keep misspelling the Sidekick class. I think it's leading to unrealistic expectations.

More seriously, while it would have been nice to have Psychic get a glow-up beyond the few functional fixes it got, I'm glad that Magus and Summoner get those lower-rank slots and aren't held back by Psychic.


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Gaulin wrote:
Mathfinder has a video up showing off some magus changes, looks cool. And it's confirmed it has psychic spell slot progression which is great for you magus players

Video Link


Very interrested in all those changes. Got a few nitpicks but overall it should be beneficial on all aspects.

More variety through more access to magic, more flexible arcane cascade, a capstone that will either feel awesome to use or terrible depending on your roll (in peak magus fashion) and some very cool new subclasses and a couple of nice QoL feats and a very cool one with that "convert a spell slot into a big explosion spending your spellstrike"

I dunno if that's ALL the changes (i imagine there might be a few more we don't see there) but they give me hope for more of the same line in future books.

I especially like the idea of other ways to spend your spellstrike into "pseudo" spellstrike and such. That's how I hope Spell Combat might return for example.

A few tools for better recharge is nice as well, though might be a bit too "best in slot" for most melee magi, will have to see how it shapes out.

On the nitpicks:

Really wish there would have been something to help spellstriking with save spells, especially since we have more spells now. The class is still extremely MAD and getting something like a penalty on a successful spellstrike could have helped a lot. Or feats inflicting a penalty for the next turn so it takes some setup. I guess on that you'll rely on your team inflicting debuffs, though debuffing saves isn't really easy outside of frightened.

And bit disappointed for Inexorable Iron, big swords are a thing I like a lot and while it does benefit a lot from having extra spells to proc Sustsaining Steel, I wished it was a little bit more than that tiny heal that won't do much most of the time.
The focus spell still is terrible apparently, and suffers from the same issue if relying on your spell save, which being MAD and requiring a critical fail of the targets to have a substantial effect. Could have made a failed save make them off guard until the end of your next turn and a success off guard until the start of their next turn.
Oh well, nothing that can't be fixed in an errata, the actual important revamps are in place now and I'm pretty happy to see them. Very surprised you went all in and gave Magus 2 slots per rank honestly. Ballsy move.


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Mathfinder is infectious in his excitement, but this Magus does look legit great. They fixed a LOT of pain points.

Also while I think the gun Magus will still have action issues, it's cool that it's at least plausible to build one now. It was a nightmare before.

Major win for the class. I wish I could play Spore War again so I could play one in it because it'd be awesome in that campaign with an archetype to get Moonlight Ray.


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For this book I was most excited about the Runesmith class, but this Magus update is amazing!


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Image with all the Magus stuff (so you don't have to scrub the video)

I like the new changes.

Killshot Report also seems insanely strong. Mathfinder dismisses it as a "magical cleave" and "nice to have option" that is "ultimately outshined by Expansive Spellstrike". Utterly insane that guy. xD

This feat is amazingly overpowered:
1. Spend 1 action to cast Sure Strike.
2. Spend 2 actions to Spellstrike an injured enemy with a max rank Disintegrate.
3. Likely crit the target and disintegrate it.
4. Use your reaction for Killshot's Report and cast a free max rank Disintegrate on the secondary target with the same attack roll result as your Sure Striked original result.

You just cast 2 max rank spells for 1 spell-slot, and cast both spells on the same turn and both attacks were made with Sure Strike!

Edit: Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if this feat gets nerfed before release or soon after. It basically DOUBLES the Magus' number of spell-slots (to Sorcerer levels) AND gives the Magus the action compression to cast TWICE as many spells as any other caster. Wizards with their lame level 20 Spell Combination feat can pound sand, the level 10 Magus is the new combination caster king!


Theaitetos wrote:

Image with all the Magus stuff (so you don't have to scrub the video)

I like the new changes.

Killshot Report also seems insanely strong. Mathfinder dismisses it as a "magical cleave" and "nice to have option" that is "ultimately outshined by Expansive Spellstrike". Utterly insane that guy. xD

This feat is amazingly overpowered:
1. Spend 1 action to cast Sure Strike.
2. Spend 2 actions to Spellstrike an injured enemy with a max rank Disintegrate.
3. Likely crit the target and disintegrate it.
4. Use your reaction for Killshot's Report and cast a free max rank Disintegrate on the secondary target with the same attack roll result as your Sure Striked original result.

You just cast 2 max rank spells for 1 spell-slot, and cast both spells on the same turn and both attacks were made with Sure Strike!

Edit: Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if this feat gets nerfed before release or soon after. It basically DOUBLES the Magus' number of spell-slots (to Sorcerer levels) AND gives the Magus the action compression to cast TWICE as many spells as any other caster.

I think you're right that he's undervaluing it, but if there was 4 enemies around hitting all 4 is pretty good too. But if you can drop something and fire this reaction off, it's awesome.


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Spell Crash might need some Day 1 Errata there.
A) It has no traits but Arcane, Force, and Magus. No Manipulate or even CONCENTRATE. There's no way to interrupt it, letting you turn ANY spell into an offensive nuke while also not dealing with any danger. It kind of makes better than Spellstrike a lot of the time.
B) It says Fist when it should say Unarmed strike like normal Spellstrike. This does matter ask it does ask for the weapon it is using to have Shove or Trip, which is something you can't apply to your raw fist.

Speaking of such, while I'm BEYOND glad there's both gun and dual-wield options for Magus now, I'm confused as to why they did nothing for Arcane Fist or provide any unarmed Magus options. You made all the subclasses but Sparkling Targe and TECHNICALLY Laughing Shadow ask for a weapon. What gives there?


Tridus wrote:
I think you're right that he's undervaluing it, but if there was 4 enemies around hitting all 4 is pretty good too. But if you can drop something and fire this reaction off, it's awesome.

The arcane tradition has a very hard time hitting multiple enemies once melee combat has begun (apart from Chain Lightning and some very high level spells). But this can be used like every turn – the secondary target is likely to be the primary target next round. And attack roll spells benefit a lot more from Spellstrike than save-based AoE spells (which many Magi leave to blaster casters/kineticists in the party anyway), especially with Sure Strike and hero points there to buff the attack roll.

Cognates

Oh okay they just went and fixed it huh. I wasn't expecting that.


Arcane cascade is at least close to what I asked for. Making it not require casting a spell is the biggest thing I wanted, but it only changes the damage type if you cast and spell and then entered, instead of what I wish was the case where the damage type could change any time you cast a spell while in the stance, this way it can dynamically change to the fight you're in as it evolves. In any case, this makes the class significantly less clunky already


Very happy with the magus changes. Given all these boons, I'll gladly still deal with reactive strike. It really seems like the 2 slot casters are now distinguished by whether they get master strikes or legendary spell DC; as others noted it's a shame that psychic didn't get brought up to speed in remaster (2 slot casting and d6 cloth defenses for strong cantrips and a short, drawback-laden rage now feeling a little piddly), but maybe their page format constrained changes were already penciled in long before necro and magus/summoner were ironed out. Oh well. Overall stoked for the former wave casters and my soon-to-be blood reaper necromancer.


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I really love double spelltrike. It's a very unique way of giving magus a pseudo 10th level spell slot. I'm sure there are plenty of combinations of spells that will make double spell strike better than a 10th level slot, in some ways.


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Magus getting Red Mage's Dual Cast is very funny


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Going through this video, the sprinting spellstrike is so sick. Mathfinder describes it talking about Goku as an example, but it's biotic charge. The magus gets biotic charge. It's f!$#ing awesome


Gods darn you're right it is !


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Crouza wrote:
Well, I was wrong. RIP wave casting I guess. F@*+.

I'm doing a jig on wave casting's grave! *dance*

Theaitetos wrote:
Image with all the Magus stuff (so you don't have to scrub the video)

THANK YOU!!!


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Paizo really did it: I don't have to archetype anymore for just about the same number of spell slots and the class feats are interesting and competitive enough to keep me from branching out! Magus really got a splendid glow up.


I'm really wondering what the summoner will get.
Full psychic slots will probably weaken the 2-action eidolons in favor of the 1-action ones.

Move, cast a regular spell, strike will become way more powerful.

Dark Archive

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Blue_frog wrote:

I'm really wondering what the summoner will get.

Full psychic slots will probably weaken the 2-action eidolons in favor of the 1-action ones.

Move, cast a regular spell, strike will become way more powerful.

More slots to cast haste though!


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I like that a lot of the cascade feats have changed from "you must enter cascade to do X" to "do X, and it is improved if you are in cascade." I always prefer carrots to sticks in ability design; it encourages the player to want to do the thing as opposed to making them feel the thing is a hoop to be jumped through.


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It is very nice to see the magus approached from a very holistic angle by the devs. They looked at the major pain points of a lack of spell slots and arcane cascade frustrations, and just made simple and direct fixes to address those, while still keeping as much of the original chasis the same. It's hard to strike that balance, but they managed to thread the needle between too conservative of changes via Wizard and too liberal of changes via the Oracle. Its a comfortable middle ground I think most everyone is happy to see the Magus land in.


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Hmmm...I do like the changes in general, but I think the changes in spellstrke should have gone one step further
as the proficiency doesnt scale, there is little benefit in using saving throw spells for spellstrike
otherwise I like the changes and the new stuff


Tactical Drongo wrote:

Hmmm...I do like the changes in general, but I think the changes in spellstrke should have gone one step further

as the proficiency doesnt scale, there is little benefit in using saving throw spells for spellstrike
otherwise I like the changes and the new stuff

I aggree, though it's something that could be fixed with 1 extra line in an errata eventually.

But something as simple as "the target of the strike suffers a -1 penalty to its saving throw on a hit, -2 on a critical hit" would be enough (though i'd like something a bit more substantial myself honestly, smite-lite with basic saves would be dope but I guess it's too much to ask)


Will it be possible to create a Magus/Necromancer? Or the other way around? Just curious... Honestly, I don't really understand, but why is more magic better for a Magus? I think I know... but I want to confirm...

Cognates

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A magus necromancer should be possible through your standard multiclass archtype method. Summoning thralls and your magus rotation will probably be action intensive but not insurmountable.

Magus getting more spells is important because magus previously had so few spell slots. For a class built around casting as many spells as they can to use their signature abilities, this made them struggle if you had several encounters in a day. This lead to a lot of people archtyping out for (focus) spells to compensate.

Vigilant Seal

BotBrain wrote:

A magus necromancer should be possible through your standard multiclass archtype method. Summoning thralls and your magus rotation will probably be action intensive but not insurmountable.

Magus getting more spells is important because magus previously had so few spell slots. For a class built around casting as many spells as they can to use their signature abilities, this made them struggle if you had several encounters in a day. This lead to a lot of people archtyping out for (focus) spells to compensate.

Not to be trite, but does 2 spell slots/day per rank really change much? It's still 2 of your top and 2 of your second from top slots, same as it ever was, now there's just more lower level spell slots.

So ultimately, has anything really changed? Won't you run out of meaningfully impactful gas as often as previously and still may need an archetype for an ever refilling decent focus spell?


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Now you can more freely use buffs, debuffs, evergreen spells, mobility spells and even have some out of combat utility if you want. While keeping your 2 or 3 higher ranks for damage as a scale up from cantrips. Which is pretty nice at higher levels.

If you need more damage than a cantrip, but not worth spending your highest slots, you'll have some options.

Litteraly the reason why multiclassing into wizard (or other casters) to get those extra 2 slots per rank with the spellcasting benefits.

BotBrain wrote:

A magus necromancer should be possible through your standard multiclass archtype method. Summoning thralls and your magus rotation will probably be action intensive but not insurmountable.

Magus getting more spells is important because magus previously had so few spell slots. For a class built around casting as many spells as they can to use their signature abilities, this made them struggle if you had several encounters in a day. This lead to a lot of people archtyping out for (focus) spells to compensate.

Personnaly very tempted to do a magus/runesmith. Shame I won't be able to play one for a while, currently using a resurgent maelstrom magus in SoT. I hope that subclass gets some errata along with Impossible Magic release too.


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Trixleby wrote:
BotBrain wrote:

A magus necromancer should be possible through your standard multiclass archtype method. Summoning thralls and your magus rotation will probably be action intensive but not insurmountable.

Magus getting more spells is important because magus previously had so few spell slots. For a class built around casting as many spells as they can to use their signature abilities, this made them struggle if you had several encounters in a day. This lead to a lot of people archtyping out for (focus) spells to compensate.

Not to be trite, but does 2 spell slots/day per rank really change much? It's still 2 of your top and 2 of your second from top slots, same as it ever was, now there's just more lower level spell slots.

So ultimately, has anything really changed? Won't you run out of meaningfully impactful gas as often as previously and still may need an archetype for an ever refilling decent focus spell?

It really does I think. You now can get a lot of the lower level utility/debuff stuff like sure strike without having to alot one of your four precious spells on it. It takes a lot of pressure off the focus spells and allows you to pack a lot more versatility of spells to spell strike with.


KoriCongo wrote:
...Speaking of such, while I'm BEYOND glad there's both gun and dual-wield options for Magus now, I'm confused as to why they did nothing for Arcane Fist or provide any unarmed Magus options. You made all the subclasses but Sparkling Targe and TECHNICALLY Laughing Shadow ask for a weapon. What gives there?

I think you can make a solid unarmed attack Magus with either Sparkling Targe or Laughing Shadow, but I agree that it would be nice to have a Hybrid Study designed specifically for that.

I did enjoy the Esoteric Magus back in PF1. :)


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Although this won't fix all of the Magus's problems, the changes make me happy. Getting all of their lower-rank slots filled out means the Magus will properly have the spell output to contribute utility and not just damage, which will be a major boon to their versatility. Time will tell, but I hope this will get more people embracing their use of conflux spells to recharge Spellstrike, while relying on slot spells more to do different things on the turns when they're not Spellstriking.

Vigilant Seal

kaid wrote:
Trixleby wrote:
BotBrain wrote:

A magus necromancer should be possible through your standard multiclass archtype method. Summoning thralls and your magus rotation will probably be action intensive but not insurmountable.

Magus getting more spells is important because magus previously had so few spell slots. For a class built around casting as many spells as they can to use their signature abilities, this made them struggle if you had several encounters in a day. This lead to a lot of people archtyping out for (focus) spells to compensate.

Not to be trite, but does 2 spell slots/day per rank really change much? It's still 2 of your top and 2 of your second from top slots, same as it ever was, now there's just more lower level spell slots.

So ultimately, has anything really changed? Won't you run out of meaningfully impactful gas as often as previously and still may need an archetype for an ever refilling decent focus spell?

It really does I think. You now can get a lot of the lower level utility/debuff stuff like sure strike without having to alot one of your four precious spells on it. It takes a lot of pressure off the focus spells and allows you to pack a lot more versatility of spells to spell strike with.

Honestly I may just being argumentative and pedantic for the sake of it, but it kind of feels like they just sort of rearrange the spell slots. The level 7 studious spells which gave access to things like Sure Strike, haste, fly, etc kind of filled that niche? It just sounds like you're getting more flexibility instead of given spells for your lower slots. So now you can use blur, or mirror image, or whatever.

This is definitely good, and I'm not arguing that, it just seems like more of the same/slightly better? It's like the opposite of wizard. Wizard lost a lot of flexibility when the old schools swapped to the new curriculum, now Magus is losing it's curriculum to just pick up any spells they want lol.

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