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Mark my words: the psychic is going the way of the oracle. Maybe even the way of the battle oracle!
*laughs nefariously*
That's mean, lol.
Given that they won't be changing the page count or such here, I expect some buffs and tweaks rather than a major rework. So they're probably spared from this treatment. Psychic does need the "buff it" treatment that Oracle got but hopefully without the "remove the most interesting ideas" part.
I don’t want it, and I don’t think it’s needed, but I can see the Thaumaturge catching a nerf or two.
People have complained about Diverse Lore for years, so I can see that be revisited.
Maybe, though even Diverse Lore isn't a full replacement for the other skills (it can't identify items or do any other use). And as others said, it basically lets the class fill the fantasy of "knowing all kinds of stuff about things, and some of it is even true!"
I think it's so popular both because it's strong, but also because it's just fun on a class with Dubious Knowledge baked in. You're not going to out Arcana the Wizard or out Nature the Druid.
And TBH... as a GM? I like it when people try to know things. There's all kinds of cool lore baked into the world and APs that sometimes it's hard for me to convey to players because there isn't a good way for them to learn it. So the Thaumaturge having heard it somewhere lets me get that info into the world (and given Dubious Knowledge, make up some nonsense to go with it). I really like this and would be sad to see it go.
Thaumaturge just needs tweaks to a couple of its weaker options to feel more competitive with the better ones, otherwise the class is in a good place. It's got tons of flavor, good build diversity, and is fun to play. It's one of the most popular classes at my tables consistently ever since it came out.
... unlike Psychic, which I have seen literally no one play for any real length of time. (Psychic Dedication, OTOH, is super popular.)
Fair enough, but I think the status bonus to damage should be its own feature, more so when the sorcerer gets half the bonus as a passive. That or increase its damage. I also kinda like your proposal for the focus point gain to happen when you use the action rather than when its ends, because (assuming the requirements aren't changed) it means you'll regain one focus point on your 2nd turn, likely returning to 3 focus points if you used one in your first turn (very likely).Unleash Psyche is the psychic equivalent of dangerous sorcery - I really rather not have an Oracle situation where the good stuff gets shuffled out of the risky action and we're left with a hollow shell. Thrice level damage is certainly spicy but also dangerous, the average cantrip is 1d4 per level and you're now shooting past that into effectively d10s.
If we're going to up Psychic damage in Unleash further I'd rather buff the Psyche actions by a die size each instead (and cut the ally damage, which due to being opt in was basically never a feature of the psychic, unlike Unleash and stupefied)
Unlike the things the oracle lost in the Remaster, Unleash Psyche's status bonus to damage is what allows the psychic to fulfill the role it was meant to fill (blaster caster), but the class has to wait at least one turn to proct it and hope the combat doesn't for long to not only lose that boost (and be unable to use psyche actions) but also have a penalty while casting spells that also includes not casting spells at all. Nobody said that the precision damage swashbucklers used to have was "flavorful" when they needed panache to have it (you know, the thing you usually spend ASAP to make a finisher) and its fantastic that it isn't like that anymore.
As I said in a previous post, if the damage doesn't become a passive feature as is, I want at least half the bonus as a passive to mirror Dangerous Sorcery and that while unleashed the bonus becomes higher than the current amount. I would even be okay with them stealing the concept from the swashbuckler entirely and going for a "1d4 per spell rank" boost which they could use as an excuse to nerf some cantrips like imaginary weapon to make them less appealeable for the magus in the process. Not like I see this happening, but making the bonus passive is likely and within the range of the expected changes.
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I wonder if they'll mess around with spell components and how they interact with the psychic. Somatic, material, and verbal components aren't nearly as emphasized now.
They won't do anything with spell components because those don't exist anymore. (Aside from very rarely used costs or loci.) WotC got spell components in the divorce.
You are really not supposed to cast offensively on your off turn (which hopefully, they reduce to 1) so no real loss there.
See, this is the problem.
The psychic is supposed to be a blaster caster but it only fills that role for 2 rounds, while the rest of the time its just a bad caster with penalties on top of that. If you see the subreddit the psychic is always the go to class for people that want to play a blaster caster (or it was, because the sorcerer took its lunch money in the Remaster) so people seem to associate the class with blasting even when its really bad doing it. The psychic needs it blaster goodies permanently turned on, or at the very least they need to be good enough to compensate all the downsides the class has. IMO Even 3*Rank to damage doesn't compensate the action's requirements, duration, and stupified condition, and expecting that Paizo is going to change the damage, requirements, duration, and stupified condition PLUS a way to regain focus points is probably a bit too drastic of a change for them even if technically within the scope of the changes they can make to this book, so I wouldn't expect for them to actually change more than two of those things. If I have to make the choice, I would prefer for them to adress the damage and focus point thing, with stupified being an extra because I'm sure that's going to be removed for sure since it seems in line with other changes they made and also frees up space for other changes.
One thing that wasn't said yet is that the sorcerer has access to bloodlines like diabolic, elemental, psychopomp, and undead who have blood magic effects that grant a bonus to damage equal to the spell's rank. This, plus dangerous sorcery, means that sorcerers can pump psychic damage all day.
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Why is Stupefied even a thing? The drawbacks for Barbarians ending Rage is just losing the temp h.p., but the damage boosts remain. If it's a cost, what explicitly is it buying (as compared to other casters, esp. Sorcerer now)? They're already down on slots.
It's a mess though I think that 1-action Cantrip option has potential. Much like the Magus & Summoner are built around (generic) Strike+Cantrip, maybe the Psychic could be built around 2-action Spell + Cantrip so that the spell doesn't need so much a boost, or maybe the boost is they share a target (like Spellstrike). Then maybe a round in between to recharge/cast a Focus Spell or something. The tagged on Cantrip works like a Spellshape, maybe w/ the Psychic having some decent 1-action Focus Spells so they can operate w/ 2-actions when pressed to move/Shield/etc. That tampers with that budget a bit, so maybe that's too disruptive. Hmm.
I have yet to see a Psychic unleash their Psyche. Mostly because in the game where we have a Psychic the fights end faster in general or they are such a support caster tha they have yet to use the Psychic's entire kit.
At this point Psychics are just inferior occult Sorcerers. Less slots and less then ideal cantrips which we all know cantrips are meant to be the back up weapon of casters after about six years of Pathfinder 2E. That is the thing which makes Psychics weird is some of their focus spells are great but does it warrant a reduction of spell slots? No, at least if you ask me.
Now give Psychics the ability to have 4 max focus points and they always recover 2 focus points instead of 1. Then at level 13ish when you get the recovery all focus points you gave it to Psychics as a free class featurre now you might give me a reason to think the reduction of Spell Slots is worth it.
However I do think it is kind of difficult for any Spellcaster is Pathfinder 2E right now to be optimal when you have sorcerer with their ability to have 4 slots per rank, good focus spells, base feature to increase spell damage & healing. The biggest problems you get with with Sorcerer is it only has 6 hit points but many casters can't compete with the extra bonus slots.
Sorcerer - 4 slots per spell rank, free bonus damage/healing on slot spells, but 6 hit points
Animist - Odd mixture of prepared & spontaneous (Haven't seen one played yet) 8 hit points
Bard - Good focus spells!, 8 hit points
Cleric - 4-6 maximized heal/harm slots (Amazing) 8 hit points
Druid - Good focus spells, 8 hit points
Oracle - 4 slots somehow (Divine only), 8 hit points and a questionable subclass choice.
Psychic - Good focus spells, odd class feature choices, 2 slots per rank, 6 hit points.
Witch - 3 slot per rank, auto familiar, good focus spells, 6 hit points
Wizard - 3 slots per rank, 1 bonus slot per rank, 6 hit points.
Generally casters are broken up into 2 groups which is the following. Considering the Psychic is in the first camp and it doesn't even hit the basic 3 slots it has stuff that is desired this late in the game.
6 Hit points 3+ Slot caster generally. (Psychic and Witch break this)
8 Hit point 3 Slot caster generally with light armor or better.
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Why is Stupefied even a thing? The drawbacks for Barbarians ending Rage is just losing the temp h.p., but the damage boosts remain. If it's a cost, what explicitly is it buying (as compared to other casters, esp. Sorcerer now)? They're already down on slots.
It's a mess though I think that 1-action Cantrip option has potential. Much like the Magus & Summoner are built around (generic) Strike+Cantrip, maybe the Psychic could be built around 2-action Spell + Cantrip so that the spell doesn't need so much a boost, or maybe the boost is they share a target (like Spellstrike). Then maybe a round in between to recharge/cast a Focus Spell or something. The tagged on Cantrip works like a Spellshape, maybe w/ the Psychic having some decent 1-action Focus Spells so they can operate w/ 2-actions when pressed to move/Shield/etc. That tampers with that budget a bit, so maybe that's too disruptive. Hmm.
The downsides are there for risk/reward gameplay and to aid the feeling of burst at a cost.
The game has also sanded this off almost everywhere it appeared since then, and the mechanic didn't feel like it worked as intended even on release. The class was an outlier in how extreme this design was, even premaster—and it just hasn't aged well at all. It should probably be changed, but I hope it can be changed in a fun way.
I have yet to see a Psychic unleash their Psyche. Mostly because in the game where we have a Psychic the fights end faster in general or they are such a support caster tha they have yet to use the Psychic's entire kit.
At this point Psychics are just inferior occult Sorcerers. Less slots and less then ideal cantrips which we all know cantrips are meant to be the back up weapon of casters after about six years of Pathfinder 2E. That is the thing which makes Psychics weird is some of their focus spells are great but does it warrant a reduction of spell slots? No, at least if you ask me.
In the early levels, Psychic is absurdly fragile but also does great damage. Cleaving with amped imaginary weapon is /really/ good from like 1-4, for example, especially with psyche unleashed. Sorc can't replicate that sustainably.
Psychic falls off really fast, though.
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A common problem I had with my Psychic when I played him was that the suppossed tradeoff bonus of Unleash, for all its massive penalties, was not just the damage bonus, but also the fact that you could use the specific Unleashed actions.
In practice, from level 1 to 16 that i've played him, i used said actions less than half a dozen of times due to action economy:
when you only get 2 rounds of damage, and it's only on those same 2 rounds that you can use the unleashed actions, you really do not have the action economy to even use them.
So, given that, what IF instead of the damage bonus, the Unleashed state gave you something like "your first cantrip of the round costs only 1 action"
Having a 1 action cantrip for 2 rounds, starting from round two, and then having the severe penalty of stupefied, imo wouldn't break anything, it would help with actually giving you enough action economy to use the Unleashed actions, or just do a cantrip and a spell on those rounds.
It would really feel like you are Unleashing everything you have in those 2 rounds, and you become winded and stupified afterewards as well.
I'm glad you mentioned this. I found this to be the case too. The unleash actions looked cool, but they were so hard to use that players stopped taking them. They weren't worth the action use for what they gave. A whole group of psyche feats usable only when unleashed was a waste of time because their action cost with the short duration of Unleash did not work at all.
I was surprised this wasn't caught during the playtest. It made so many of the psychic's feats undesirable. Unleash feats and abilities should be a core part of the class.
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Some Analysis Here
I'm not sure who made this, but it is riddled with errors and mistakes.
It looks to have been made with the objective of downplaying the thaumaturge as a knowledge class, and so has made several choices to achieve that.
I'm not going to go to tab by tab, but here are some immediate standout issues:
- An assumed -2 penalty has been applied to the Thaumaturges proficiency across the board, without exception. In reality, this penalty is only applied when the Thaumatuge choses to use the Diverse Lore feat to apply Esoteric Lore against something it couldn't normally be used on (Any creature, haunt and curses - creatures being the big one).
The analysis does not make any distinctions here on use and has decided to apply the penalty universally while making no provision for how the other skills are being used.
- It is assuming that other classes with access to the Familiar feat chain will optimise their recall knowledge using Skilled>Second Opinion to grant aid to the caster. This, for some reason, is denied to the Thaumaturge who also has the required Familiar and Enhanced Familiar feats, and there is nothing stopping the familiar from taking Esoteric Lore as an option for Skilled. While this provides the same type of bonus as the Tome implement, it can scale higher quicker for the on-level comparisons.
The circumstance bonus from this option is also universally not scaled correctly. It just assumes famailiars will crit on a DC15 check from level 7 onwards. Probabilistic scaling like this needs to be handled differently.
- It assumes that at higher levels a caster will spend a spell slot of at least a 6th level casting of Pocket Library for a +3 bonus. For some reason it does not assume that a Thaumaturge would upgrade a wand or use one of their esoteric scrolls to do the same, staggering the bonus to deferred levels as per scroll scalaing.
- The "Optimised FA Build" tab pits a fully optimised Int caster against an only partially optimised Thaum, robbing them of potentially 6 points of bonus (+2 Chr, +2 proficiency, +2 status from Pocket Library)
All in all, its deeply flawed and I wouldn't use it for actual judgements.
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Would that even work? Esoteric Lore is a spell class feature granting a special Lore skill. Can a Skilled Familiar even pick it up and even if they did it would just be normal Esoteric Lore not the super special one Thaumaturge gets...Am I even wrong but if I am not wrong then Tome is a great implement for Recall Knowledge checks and other items which grant Item bonuses to Lore/Recall Knowledge.
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Would that even work? Esoteric Lore is a spell class feature granting a special Lore skill. Can a Skilled Familiar even pick it up and even if they did it would just be normal Esoteric Lore not the super special one Thaumaturge gets...Am I even wrong but if I am not wrong then Tome is a great implement for Recall Knowledge checks and other items which grant Item bonuses to Lore/Recall Knowledge.
While potentially more contentious overall, there is nothing preventing anyone from taking "Esoteric" lore as a lore skill in general, but it will only allow them to RK on anything the GM deems it to, it won't be able to mimic the Thaumaturge class ability.
In this case, you aren't looking to, simply roll the skill check in order to provide aid to Thaum making the actual check. The lore checks themselves are the same, but the Thaum has class features which provide special benefits.
This is, however, immaterial, its just to show that the documents creator is assuming on-level optimisation in some cases for non-Thaums, but not applying the same to Thaums when they have equal access to the same methods. Hence distorting the validity of any comparison.
Honestly I could see the dedication getting nerfed, not giving access to the basic amps of the psychic cantrips (but still able to use the ones from feats).
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Would that even work? Esoteric Lore is a spell class feature granting a special Lore skill. Can a Skilled Familiar even pick it up and even if they did it would just be normal Esoteric Lore not the super special one Thaumaturge gets...Am I even wrong but if I am not wrong then Tome is a great implement for Recall Knowledge checks and other items which grant Item bonuses to Lore/Recall Knowledge.While potentially more contentious overall, there is nothing preventing anyone from taking "Esoteric" lore as a lore skill in general, but it will only allow them to RK on anything the GM deems it to, it won't be able to mimic the Thaumaturge class ability.
There is something preventing it, though- "Esoteric" is much broader of a category than is allowed for a lore skill, even if you're taking it as a general lore skill.
It would be really funny if the thaumaturge ended up getting buffed on release lol. I mean, it happened a few times already that classes that didn't need changes received them in the Remaster (barbarian, rogue, and sorcerer come to mind) so it would be funny if it happened again.
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There is something preventing it, though- "Esoteric" is much broader of a category than is allowed for a lore skill, even if you're taking it as a general lore skill.Would that even work? Esoteric Lore is a spell class feature granting a special Lore skill. Can a Skilled Familiar even pick it up and even if they did it would just be normal Esoteric Lore not the super special one Thaumaturge gets...Am I even wrong but if I am not wrong then Tome is a great implement for Recall Knowledge checks and other items which grant Item bonuses to Lore/Recall Knowledge.While potentially more contentious overall, there is nothing preventing anyone from taking "Esoteric" lore as a lore skill in general, but it will only allow them to RK on anything the GM deems it to, it won't be able to mimic the Thaumaturge class ability.
We should take this to a different thread as we might be getting into the weeds of pet modifiers and the semantics of if esoteric would actually be too broad a category (given that it returns nothing if you are not a Thaumaturge).
Divine Mysteries stole most of a page of DA content with the time Oracle and a spell or two, so that’s available for new stuff.
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Honestly remove Unleash Psyche, instead make it a passive buff with no stupefied. There boom we fixed Psychic not needing more slots if you apply the effects passively and allow them to use any action that use to require Unleash Psyche as a standard kit ability much like Patron abilities for Witch. Would this be the best option? Probably not but it does help them fight off the Sorcerer superiority problem.
I aggree that unleash psyche is something to keep, maybe expand on a bit.
I honestly really enjoy the ebb and flow, in concept at least. Releasing insane power spikes and then "crashing down" for a few rounds after that.
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Yeah but do they really need a crash however? They already have reduced spell slots. Does this Unleash Psyche really justify their reduction? What can a Psychic do which a sorcerer can not? I am simply curious at this point, I love bot concepts of classes but at this point in order for me to play a psychic either give me 1-3 extra focus points potentially, a way to instant regain all my focus points as early as level1, reduce the penalty of Unleash Psyche or give me more spell slots. Perhaps a Wisdom Caster variant of Psychic would be nice, we got Int and Cha so why not Wisdom?
I think there are two potential ways to go about Unleash Psyche: either you make it more like Rage and remove the self-stupefy, or you keep the self-stupefy, in which case the downtime probably ought to be shortened and the benefits should be massively increased. The former would make the activity easier to use and would basically make it into a continuous self-buff, whereas the latter could make the mechanic more of a situational power-up that could resultingly be allowed to be made even stronger. Either's valid in my opinion, it's a matter of making the activity feel better to use in either case.
I also think Psychic has to lean into Unleash Psyche because otherwise (as noted above) it's just another Sorcerer. But also because of what a psychic is supposed to represent, which doesn't feel like a Vancian-slot caster IMO, rather something more primitive or cosmic. One's brain's on overdrive, synapses blazing, temple veins throbbing, head might even explode (whether from pain or for realsies). That's a psychic to me, one I'd like to see in the Psychic class.
So yeah, like Rage, and like Rage in the Remaster, its downside doesn't need to hamstring them. Any hiccup matters in PF2 combats.
While I can imagine several directions from which to approach the mechanics, there are the problems of a class casting the same spell better than one's peers and of having nova capabilities. I think the Magus and the new Swashbuckler handled spikes well (and there were similar mechanics in the Necromancer & Runecrafter playtest), where one either sets up or recharges, as long as those set up/recharge actions are also useful and thematic. With spell slots, Focus Spells, and (buffed) Cantrips available, plus maybe some feats/subclasses for other actions options, there are plenty of abilities one can build one's routine/menu around. I think unique Spellshape abilities, perhaps even so strong they cost a Focus Point/penalty/drawback/action-investment is another option.
Using Barbarian vs. Fighter reasoning one could have the Psychic cast stronger spells at a cost to one's DC/spell attack, not just more damage, but carrier effects like Conditions, telekinetic maneuvers, more targets, and more. If this also altered Cantrips, those effects might be enough of an "Amp" to warrant casting them (perhaps during one's recharge/penalty time).
I think we should look more to the swashbuckler than the barbarian here for a more appropiate comparison. The only other class that has two "states" for lack of a better term its the swashbuckler, which can have or not have panache to determine things like their damage, skill bonuses, and speed. In the case of the psychic, it would need a weaker but passive unleash psyche benefit and a stronger but limited unleash psyche benefit.
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Here's another take on Unleash Psyche;
What if Unleash Psyche...
- lasts a minute
- grants a temporary focus point
- gives a +2 damage bonus per die to normal spells, but a +4 bonus to cantrips. This goes up further when you gain expert/master/legendary spellcasting
- you can use one "psyche" trait ability as a free action per round
We're leaning heavily into a theme here of the psychic having fewer spell slots, sure, but using cantrips almost like a barbarian to make up for it.
+X per die seems too wonky, what with d4 & d12 spells out there that do balanced damage to start. I think the +X per Rank balances better, and since Cantrips auto-scale, they'd have the biggest bonuses by default (as would Focus Spells so that'd be something to account for). Most such buffs (like the Sorcerer's) often only apply to slotted spells, so that'd be a difference.
A bonus to DC or spell attack rolls has a balanced effect too though ultimately Paizo avoids basic bonuses so I prefer adding secondary effects (much like a Kineticist does).
I'm also leaning toward the Panache mechanic, though I could see various Stances involved too that one goes in and out of (whether the spell puts you into a Stance or out of one are both options). Each current subclass could have its own Stance for its own types of spells & tricks, but could pick up another's for more breadth perhaps. Stances, IMO, resemble states of mind which seems suitable, though I can understand if Paizo prefers a different label for mental "stances".
This kinda makes my think about what if the psychic didn't have spell slots at all and the class and its amps were buffed to compensate for that. I sadly think this isn't even a remote possibility because its probably too much of a jump from the current class and it would require pretty much a whole rework, which is way beyond the scope of the book, but I'm honestly curious how a caster (in this case the psychic) without spell slots would look like.
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Another thing I hope they remember if they re-design the psychic is feats that unleash power that hit your allies are not going to be used very often. If you have to be in range of the enemies and hit your allies at the same time, that is a very bad feat. A feat that isn't worth taking as no one wants to get hit by enemy AOE, then AOE by your ally. It's not even worth page space to make such a feat and hope it will get used with any regularity save by players that don't care if they hammer their allies.
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I'm conflicted about those feats. I think it's part of the overall difficulty of making classes that use "out of control" abilities like Unleash Psyche and oracle curses. You need to thread such a fine line between making it powerful enough to be appealing, without leaving a loophole that's easily exploited while barely feeling the downsides.
I like the vibe of a psychic letting their subconscious run wild, lashing out roughly to anyone nearby. But this is also a game and it needs to be playable. Looking at clerics, spells like Divine Wrath, Divine Decree and particularly Summon Elemental Herald all talk about only doing damage to enemies. Particularly when summoning a huge elemental herald it's a bit hard to imagine that it only damages enemies, but it does make the spells actually usable.
Also, when imagining a psychic, the first thing that comes to mind is not a massively armored, high HP hulk. Psychics shouldn't normally really want to be in the front row of melee.
What if a lot of those feats were redesigned not as emanations, but as cones (so you can point them at enemies) and triggered as a reaction to getting hit? So if your psychic gets whacked in the face, they can lash back out with a wave of pain in the direction of the enemy.
I too would like pain-themed Psychic abilities.
I was considering the idea that Unleash might give you temp hit points...to offset the damage your abilities then do to yourself IF your enemies don't do you the favor first. And then if they (or you) do more damage, the Psychic can recharge their Unleash off of that (and refresh temp hit points again). After that the system gets riskier, but there are still slots, etc. and simply getting healed like everybody else busy getting hurt.
Another thing I hope they remember if they re-design the psychic is feats that unleash power that hit your allies are not going to be used very often. If you have to be in range of the enemies and hit your allies at the same time, that is a very bad feat. A feat that isn't worth taking as no one wants to get hit by enemy AOE, then AOE by your ally. It's not even worth page space to make such a feat and hope it will get used with any regularity save by players that don't care if they hammer their allies.
Trial by Skyfire has entered the chat. Who wants to hit your allies and spend a feat on the privilege?
You're exactly right: feats like that are just wasted page space. They are so situational that they need to be incredibly powerful otherwise they won't be used. At this point in the game's lifespan that's something that the folks doing this update should be keenly aware of.
I like the vibe of a psychic letting their subconscious run wild, lashing out roughly to anyone nearby. But this is also a game and it needs to be playable. Looking at clerics, spells like Divine Wrath, Divine Decree and particularly Summon Elemental Herald all talk about only doing damage to enemies. Particularly when summoning a huge elemental herald it's a bit hard to imagine that it only damages enemies, but it does make the spells actually usable.
Tempest of Shades comes to mind with the "this is a huge area that does all kinds of stuff but ignores your allies", which doesn't make a ton of sense given the spell description but the spell would be utterly useless without it.
You're bang on: it's a game and it needs to feel good in play. Blowing up your allies doesn't feel good usually.
This kinda makes my think about what if the psychic didn't have spell slots at all and the class and its amps were buffed to compensate for that. I sadly think this isn't even a remote possibility because its probably too much of a jump from the current class and it would require pretty much a whole rework, which is way beyond the scope of the book, but I'm honestly curious how a caster (in this case the psychic) without spell slots would look like.
To me it seems like you are pretty much describing the Runesmith and Kineticist.
This kinda makes my think about what if the psychic didn't have spell slots at all and the class and its amps were buffed to compensate for that. I sadly think this isn't even a remote possibility because its probably too much of a jump from the current class and it would require pretty much a whole rework, which is way beyond the scope of the book, but I'm honestly curious how a caster (in this case the psychic) without spell slots would look like.To me it seems like you are pretty much describing the Runesmith and Kineticist.
The runesmith is a martial with magic-like features and the kineticist, while hard to describe in these terms, its like a sort of elemental gish. The psychic is, and always has been in the context of PF2e, the cantrips caster. That's why I'm curious to see how the psychic could be if it was JUST a cantrips caster and not a caster that focuses on its cantrips. The difference between those two concepts is thin, but there's a difference, which kinda makes me believe the psychic (and most casters if I'm totally honest) usually feel restricted since spell slots tend to eat a lot of their power budget, though unlike something like sorcerer or wizard where spellcasting is their main and pretty much only gimmick, the psychic is one of those casters that could actually exist and be functional without spell slots, though not in its current state.
But anyways, I said that more like a "what if" scenario than something I expect to see happening because it would require a ton of playtesting and reworking of the class almost from the ground up to function. 3 regular cantrips and 3 amp cantrips even if buffed wouldn't be enough to make a spell-less caster be functional, not unless the whole feat list is buffed as well and the amount of cantrips (both regular and amped) becomes bigger. Plus more buffs to the chasis of the class itself.
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The class was an outlier in how extreme this design was, even premaster—and it just hasn't aged well at all.
Not aging well implies that the system has shifted around it or that it used to make more sense.
But Unleash has never really worked well.
I wouldn't even call it a risk/reward mechanic because in most circumstances the penalty is minimized or doesn't even come up. Stupefied doesn't even kick in until round four, and lots of combats are either done or purely in a cleanup phase by then.
Calling it a risk/reward system does a really disservice to just how badly thought out and ineffective the mechanic actually is.
Love the psychic (I've played two) but I agree that making some of the amp AOE ignore allies and maaybe having some of the psyche actions not require unleash would help diversify them greatly as far as making their feats more competitive. Psychic has some of the coolest class feats that unfortunately become a lot less attractive when you read the fine print.
Thaum, I have fewer opinions on bc it's pretty noisy to me (like the exemplar) so it'll probably stay more of a class to just look at from afar barring some streamlining
The runesmith is a martial with magic-like features and the kineticist, while hard to describe in these terms, its like a sort of elemental gish. The psychic is, and always has been in the context of PF2e, the cantrips caster. That's why I'm curious to see how the psychic could be if it was JUST a cantrips caster and not a caster that focuses on its cantrips.
Ah, I see now what you have in mind. That sounds like something I'd be interested in playing. I do really love cantrips. There are a lot of fun ones that tend to get pushed aside by the need to have combat-focused options, and it would be nice to get more use out of those.
Since you don't want such a class to have the martial progression of a Runesmith, I wonder if a good way to partially balance the loss of spell slots would be an increase in skill feasts. I'd love an Int-based skill monkey caster.
But I'm sure you're right that the Psychic won't be altered that much in the remaster.