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I would unironically love a feathered dragon though. It would be so fluffy. Plus it could be a nod to the theory that some dragon myths originated with dinosaur bones, and that birds are related to dinosaurs.
I'd love to see a whole feathered reptile *event* centered around the coatls that could introduce a handful of feathered snakes, dragons, drakes, and dinosaurs, and maybe finally gave us playable serpentfolk (with or without feathers). Throw in some kenku, shisk, strix, and dragonblooded options, maybe a feathered serpent medusa for kicks.
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I would unironically love a feathered dragon though. It would be so fluffy. Plus it could be a nod to the theory that some dragon myths originated with dinosaur bones, and that birds are related to dinosaurs.I'd love to see a whole feathered reptile *event* centered around the coatls that could introduce a handful of feathered snakes, dragons, drakes, and dinosaurs, and maybe finally gave us playable serpentfolk (with or without feathers). Throw in some kenku, shisk, strix, and dragonblooded options, maybe a feathered serpent medusa for kicks.
The hurdles on this are pretty much insurmountable, and it's never going to happen as a result.
... Now, if you're willing to compromise and accept tengu instead of kenku, it gets a lot more feasible.
The hurdles on this are pretty much insurmountable, and it's never going to happen as a result.I would unironically love a feathered dragon though. It would be so fluffy. Plus it could be a nod to the theory that some dragon myths originated with dinosaur bones, and that birds are related to dinosaurs.I'd love to see a whole feathered reptile *event* centered around the coatls that could introduce a handful of feathered snakes, dragons, drakes, and dinosaurs, and maybe finally gave us playable serpentfolk (with or without feathers). Throw in some kenku, shisk, strix, and dragonblooded options, maybe a feathered serpent medusa for kicks.
Aren't Coualts Incan/Mayan dragons?
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I would unironically love a feathered dragon though. It would be so fluffy. Plus it could be a nod to the theory that some dragon myths originated with dinosaur bones, and that birds are related to dinosaurs.I'd love to see a whole feathered reptile *event* centered around the coatls that could introduce a handful of feathered snakes, dragons, drakes, and dinosaurs, and maybe finally gave us playable serpentfolk (with or without feathers). Throw in some kenku, shisk, strix, and dragonblooded options, maybe a feathered serpent medusa for kicks.The hurdles on this are pretty much insurmountable, and it's never going to happen as a result.
... Now, if you're willing to compromise and accept tengu instead of kenku, it gets a lot more feasible.
Whups. *anime sweat drop*
Aren't Coualts Incan/Mayan dragons?I would unironically love a feathered dragon though. It would be so fluffy. Plus it could be a nod to the theory that some dragon myths originated with dinosaur bones, and that birds are related to dinosaurs.I'd love to see a whole feathered reptile *event* centered around the coatls that could introduce a handful of feathered snakes, dragons, drakes, and dinosaurs, and maybe finally gave us playable serpentfolk (with or without feathers). Throw in some kenku, shisk, strix, and dragonblooded options, maybe a feathered serpent medusa for kicks.The hurdles on this are pretty much insurmountable, and it's never going to happen as a result.
... Now, if you're willing to compromise and accept tengu instead of kenku, it gets a lot more feasible.
It means "serpent". Quetzalcoatl means "feathered serpent", and is an Aztec deity.
In Pathfinder, coatls are winged celestial serpents. The spelling was changed in the remaster from D&D's preferred spelling couatl.
I don't really think any of those interpretations would be "dragons".
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Can't wait to play a miserly Drakeblooded with a cane sword of pogoing.Also, drakes are ducks. If drakes are a type of dragon, then it therefore stands to reason that dragons are also types of ducks.This comment made me pause and think to myself about how much I love our community.
With a Scottish accent?
Aren't Coualts Incan/Mayan dragons?I would unironically love a feathered dragon though. It would be so fluffy. Plus it could be a nod to the theory that some dragon myths originated with dinosaur bones, and that birds are related to dinosaurs.I'd love to see a whole feathered reptile *event* centered around the coatls that could introduce a handful of feathered snakes, dragons, drakes, and dinosaurs, and maybe finally gave us playable serpentfolk (with or without feathers). Throw in some kenku, shisk, strix, and dragonblooded options, maybe a feathered serpent medusa for kicks.The hurdles on this are pretty much insurmountable, and it's never going to happen as a result.
... Now, if you're willing to compromise and accept tengu instead of kenku, it gets a lot more feasible.
It means "serpent". Quetzalcoatl means "feathered serpent", and is an Aztec deity.
In Pathfinder, coatls are winged celestial serpents. The spelling was changed in the remaster from D&D's preferred spelling couatl.
I don't really think any of those interpretations would be "dragons".
You have a point, but to the uninitiated, any flying reptile is a dragon :p
According to an AMA with someone who received the Shining Kingdoms pdf, the Occult Dragon Matriculum (as in the 1e occult dragon, not the 2e category), has been retconned into being an Omen Dragon. Uncertain if this is a unique decision or if it applies to the species as a whole, and Omen Dragons are now part of the Esoteric Dragon family, though they fit the bill Id say. Now, I'm less certain about the decision to replace Occult Dragons with them; it was probably made to tie into the "prophecy" theme of Drums, but personally I'd say that Fortune Dragons are closer to what Occult Dragons were. Though they probably want Esoteric Dragons to use the Occult tradition? I'm not sure.
Hopefully they clear this soon ^^;
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I would absolutely consider that a one-off decision. Matriculum didn't have much real detail before or any ties to "occult dragon". If you consider what type of dragon would only take one meeting to become a Kalistocrat, an omen dragon is the obvious choice. A fortune dragon, with the whole "draining magic items" thing, would actually be a terrible fit, and a menace/competition.
But, if you had an occult dragon before that leaned into having a collection of trinkets and scraps of scrolls, then yeah, you'd probably use a fortune dragon replacement.
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There was also the dragon Ekhazarean who is described as a Sage Dragon in the Kyonin chapter.
So possible Arcane Dragon?
Rune and Sage Dragons sounds like a pair of Arcane Dargons to me.
If anything, the Occult Dragon barely got any coverage, considering they had to cut flavor text to make it fit :(
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According to an AMA with someone who received the Shining Kingdoms pdf, the Occult Dragon Matriculum (as in the 1e occult dragon, not the 2e category), has been retconned into being an Omen Dragon. Uncertain if this is a unique decision or if it applies to the species as a whole, and Omen Dragons are now part of the Esoteric Dragon family, though they fit the bill Id say. Now, I'm less certain about the decision to replace Occult Dragons with them; it was probably made to tie into the "prophecy" theme of Drums, but personally I'd say that Fortune Dragons are closer to what Occult Dragons were. Though they probably want Esoteric Dragons to use the Occult tradition? I'm not sure.Honestly, now that I think about it, the 1e occult dragon does seem like it'd be the Paizo-original dragon that's most at risk of just being wholly removed as a result of the remaster, just for the sake of clarity regarding names. If it does stick around, I'd imagine it'll get renamed(perhaps a collector dragon or implement dragon? I suggest implement dragon because I think the idea of letting a dragon use Thaumaturge-esque abilities in combat would be cool, even if it's a bit at odds with the original occult dragon in some ways).
Easy fix, just call it the esoteric or esoterica dragon, since the category name is no longer in use and it fits what occult dragons were about.
But Paizo hasn't seemed to be leaning too heavily on old dragons for arcane or occult.
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According to the opening Paizocon panel, Havok Dragons are coming with Draconic Codex, renamed to Delight Dragons. This, alongside some other things, leads me to believe that the Planar Dragons have been renamed. My current theory is;
Havok Dragon - Delight Dragon
Crypt Dragon - Requiem Dragon
Paradise Dragon - Empyrean Dragon
Infernal Dragon - Infernal Dragon
I now also more strongly believe the dragon in the Draconic Codex cover that's fighting the Requiem Dragon is actually an Apocalypse Dragon (Planar dragon tied to Abaddon) with a new name now of course.
Others things that have been confirmed to be coming are reprinted primals with the Magma Dragon, and some brand new ones, one of which is the Barrage Dragon
Why? All the planer dragons are Paizo originals aren't they? I don't see a need for this and sort of just makes things more difficult.
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Why? All the planer dragons are Paizo originals aren't they? I don't see a need for this and sort of just makes things more difficult.
My guess is that it's a "Yes, but" situation. The planes themselves weren't altogether Paizo originals, and the old iterations were more heavily tied in with alignment. Distinct names allows distinguishing "This is for OGL, and this is for ORC".
I certainly expect there's a good reason for it to be such a consistent thing of using different names.
I feel like a LOT of stuff that got changed were kinda rushed for P1E back in the days.
Those didn't have time to cook, so maybe they revisited them and revised them now that they have more time to do so.
If anything, dragons should cover every single damage type possible, so dragon-based features, be class, ancestral, spell-like and such, can finally cover more.
The Gallant Goblin's video covering Pathfinder Quest (which plays inbetween streamed panels) revealed it has a Time Dragon in that game! I wonder if we can expect a Time Dragon to also show up in the Draconic Codex?
The Gallant Goblin's video covering Pathfinder Quest (which plays inbetween streamed panels) revealed it has a Time Dragon in that game! I wonder if we can expect a Time Dragon to also show up in the Draconic Codex?
Aaaaaand it's been confirmed in the Lost Omens panel! Time Dragons ARE in the Draconic Codex! And they are still purple, apparently.
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The Gallant Goblin's video covering Pathfinder Quest (which plays inbetween streamed panels) revealed it has a Time Dragon in that game! I wonder if we can expect a Time Dragon to also show up in the Draconic Codex?Aaaaaand it's been confirmed in the Lost Omens panel! Time Dragons ARE in the Draconic Codex! And they are still purple, apparently.
Furthermore, Rime Dragons are the new equivalent of the White Dragon, and the Mocking Dragon takes the thematic place of the Copper Dragon (sorta Zoro dragon with a sinister appearance). The Chromatics were easier conversions, the Metallics they went more for their personalities.
Additionally, there's something called a "Despair Dragon" that they'll talk about tomorrow, apparently more revolting than the Conspirator Dragon. My theory is they're the black sludgy dragon in the Draconic Codex cover. Also they mentioned something about it having a "very unique bladder", which... Concerns me lol.
They mentioned that not every Dragon is in Draconic Codex as I understood, and that there's room for a sort of "Draconicer Codex" if it does well enough. Also that every dragon from Bestiaries 1-3 is returning updated.
No word on Esoteric Dragons yet, but they've given an example from every other category so far, so it's not unreasonable that they'll have some representation there.
Additionally, there's something called a "Despair Dragon" that they'll talk about tomorrow, apparently more revolting than the Conspirator Dragon. My theory is they're the black sludgy dragon in the Draconic Codex cover. Also they mentioned something about it having a "very unique bladder", which... Concerns me lol.
Asked about the other dragon on the cover, and Luis answered in a roundabout way: They're saving its reveal for later, but the other cover dragon is apparently in Monster Core 2. And from the way he was talking about it, it is not the same as the alluded Despair Dragon.
We're to find out what the Despair Dragon looks like on the Creature Feature panel tomorrow, so let's check there and find out!
Personally I am loving all the new information on the Draconic Codex. I was worried that it would only reprint dragons from the three 2e bestiaries, but I am glad that there are some returning dragons from 1e like the time dragon, and brand new dragons like the mocking dragon.
The Mocking Dragon was from the first Bestiary. It just happened to be more copper-colored.
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Here's an early preview list going forward, from Reddit:
- Adamantine
- Diabolical
- Empyrial
- Conspirator
- Mirage
- Fortune
- Horned (previously Green)
- Omen
NEW
- Requiem
- Barrage
- Mocking (previously Copper)
- Delight (previously Havoc)
- Time
- Despair
- Rune
- Magma
- Sage (previously Bronze)
- Cinder (previously Red)
- Rime (previously White)
- Bog (previously Black)
- 2 unidentified dragons
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Why? All the planer dragons are Paizo originals aren't they? I don't see a need for this and sort of just makes things more difficult.
They specified for Delight vs Havok that, as Elysian dragons, Havok gives the wrong vibes - even if they do sometimes cause havok, it makes more sense for a creature meant to represent Elysium to have its narrative focus be on the Delight it is associated with.
Yay, Rime dragons!
Hopefully, they will expand the list of Dragonblood Exemplars to include them. I miss having a cold-themed option.
Why? All the planer dragons are Paizo originals aren't they? I don't see a need for this and sort of just makes things more difficult.They specified for Delight vs Havok that, as Elysian dragons, Havok gives the wrong vibes - even if they do sometimes cause havok, it makes more sense for a creature meant to represent Elysium to have its narrative focus be on the Delight it is associated with.
I think it's rather funny though, that the first person to catalog them, likely followed a path of light destruction and discontent before finding a havok dragon desperately trying to help people and not exactly accomplishing it's goals, hence the name.
I hope they keep havok as a bit of a soft jab nick name for them though.
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Why? All the planer dragons are Paizo originals aren't they? I don't see a need for this and sort of just makes things more difficult.My guess is that it's a "Yes, but" situation. The planes themselves weren't altogether Paizo originals, and the old iterations were more heavily tied in with alignment. Distinct names allows distinguishing "This is for OGL, and this is for ORC".
I certainly expect there's a good reason for it to be such a consistent thing of using different names.
While understandable, it makes me want to punch Hasbro. The whole thing, and all its subsidiaries and tell them to cut it out, let people have fun.