War of Immortals AMA

[Mangaholic13]

Out of curiosity, what are the exact stats for the War Gavel and Fishing Rod?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

War Gavel's pretty much identical to Morningstar in literally every aspect. Same damage, same traits, same crit specialization.

About the only thing I think justifies its existence is you can get it made out of wood special materials instead of metal?

[shroudb]

The important difference with War Gavel is that you can shout "Judged!" every time you hit!

[Perpdepog]

shroudb wrote:

The important difference with War Gavel is that you can shout "Judged!" every time you hit!

"I AM THE LAW!"

[DMurnett]

What's Warrior of Legend's deal? I think I get the broad strokes but I want some more details on how its weakness works and what benefits it gets to outweigh that

[Squark]

DMurnett wrote:

What's Warrior of Legend's deal? I think I get the broad strokes but I want some more details on how its weakness works and what benefits it gets to outweigh that

This video goes over the archetype.

Short version: You have a weakness to one physical damage type equal to half your level (min. 1) and become doomed 2 when that weakness is triggered unless you're already at least doomed 2. The dedication feat allows you to add your doomed value to your damage rolls as well as giving polearms and speara the parry trait (or increasing the parry bonus if you already have it. A lot of the feats interact with the doomed condition as well

You also get diehard and an extra skill training* at level 1 in exchange for giving up heavy armor and shield block. Your weapon proficiency increases are for both spears and polearms instead of choosing other weapons.

*Specifically, you are trained in Athletics and Acrobactics instead of picking one.

[TheTownsend]

A thought I just had about some Exemplar features.

The Titan's Breaker Ikon specifies that "Constructs and objects are not immune to" the extra spirit damage it deals.

The first level feat Energized Spark (which every Exemplar gets at 7th level with their dominion epithet) lets you change, at will, the spirit damage from all your Exemplar features to a laundry list of options.

Looking at it, this is probably not supported by RAW or RAI, but I would nonetheless like to argue that this would allow me to poison a rock.

(or electrify an otherwise immune Charnel Creation, for a more concrete example)

[Evan Tarlton]

TheTownsend wrote:

A thought I just had about some Exemplar features.

The Titan's Breaker Ikon specifies that "Constructs and objects are not immune to" the extra spirit damage it deals.

The first level feat Energized Spark (which every Exemplar gets at 7th level with their dominion epithet) lets you change, at will, the spirit damage from all your Exemplar features to a laundry list of options.

Looking at it, this is probably not supported by RAW or RAI, but I would nonetheless like to argue that this would allow me to poison a rock.

(or electrify an otherwise immune Charnel Creation, for a more concrete example)

That's probably not RAI. On the other hand, if any class could do those things...

[Squiggit]

It's a cool idea but pretty clearly not how it works: Titan Breaker lets you bypass spirit damage immunity, not immunity to the bonus damage you deal. So the moment you aren't dealing spirit damage it's not benefitting you any.

[JiCi]

I got a question:

Are most Exemplars' abilities linked to electricity and sound, or can you change it?

I recall an ability that deals extra electricity damage on a critical hit.

What if my deity is fire or winter-based? Is there an alternate way to change the damage without leaning too much on houserules?

[GameDesignerDM]

JiCi wrote:

I got a question:

Are most Exemplars' abilities linked to electricity and sound, or can you change it?

I recall an ability that deals extra electricity damage on a critical hit.

What if my deity is fire or winter-based? Is there an alternate way to change the damage without leaning too much on houserules?

Yes - there is a level 1 Feat called Energized Spark that lets you pick a damage type that you can change your Spirit damage abilities to. Your Dominion Epithet at level 7 also gives you this Feat for free with two choices of damage types.

[JiCi]

GameDesignerDM wrote:

JiCi wrote:

I got a question:

Are most Exemplars' abilities linked to electricity and sound, or can you change it?

I recall an ability that deals extra electricity damage on a critical hit.

What if my deity is fire or winter-based? Is there an alternate way to change the damage without leaning too much on houserules?

Yes - there is a level 1 Feat called Energized Spark that lets you pick a damage type that you can change your Spirit damage abilities to. Your Dominion Epithet at level 7 also gives you this Feat for free with two choices of damage types.

Oh thank you!

The playtest felt like energy types were exclusive.

Exemplars really scratch that itch for "powerful devout divine warriors", so yeah :p

[Calliope5431]

GameDesignerDM wrote:

JiCi wrote:

I got a question:

Are most Exemplars' abilities linked to electricity and sound, or can you change it?

I recall an ability that deals extra electricity damage on a critical hit.

What if my deity is fire or winter-based? Is there an alternate way to change the damage without leaning too much on houserules?

Yes - there is a level 1 Feat called Energized Spark that lets you pick a damage type that you can change your Spirit damage abilities to. Your Dominion Epithet at level 7 also gives you this Feat for free with two choices of damage types.

I totally missed that. Thanks for pointing it out. Very thematic.

I remain very impressed with Exemplar.

[Xenocrat]

For those still belly aching about the possibilities of universal mythic reselience on saves, take a look at the 5th rank spell Diadem of Divine Radiance on page 157 (it's out of order in the T's) which lasts 1 minute and lets you do sustain actions to fire off spirit damage spell attacks that also dazzle, each at mythic proficiency.

If you have the free sustain feat you can toss off a free one of these, a second one at MAP just in case you get lucky, and also a 2 action buff/utility spell and not worry so much about monster saves while still contributing both offensively and otherwise. Or Sure Strike plus free sustain attack, then two action spell. Or triple attack plus Sure Strike, or quadruple attack, if you want to crit fish.

[shroudb]

Xenocrat wrote:

For those still belly aching about the possibilities of universal mythic reselience on saves, take a look at the 5th rank spell Diadem of Divine Radiance on page 157 (it's out of order in the T's) which lasts 1 minute and lets you do sustain actions to fire off spirit damage spell attacks that also dazzle, each at mythic proficiency.

If you have the free sustain feat you can toss off a free one of these, a second one at MAP just in case you get lucky, and also a 2 action buff/utility spell and not worry so much about monster saves while still contributing both offensively and otherwise. Or Sure Strike plus free sustain attack, then two action spell. Or triple attack plus Sure Strike, or quadruple attack, if you want to crit fish.

I mean... that fixes nothing?

3/4ths of the printed spells are still garbage in mythic level due to resilience and do nothing is by itself a problem.

Let alone that diadem is not really any sort of spectacular spell for the mythic point it costs. Sure, you hit, but do less damage than an average Strike (with Diadem doing an average 18damage per hit).

It's basically Mythic Spiritual Weapon, about the same damage (Spiritual being 4d8 at level 6 instead of 5) but uses mythic proficiency.

[Xenocrat]

It fixes the alleged problem of having "nothing" to do offensively against creatures with all three mythic resilience saves. Of course it does less damage than an average strike, you're not a martial. A martial can't apply mythic proficiency to 3-4 strikes per round for 1 minute off a single mythic point expenditure.

You're also dazzling it constantly if you keep hitting it every round.

[shroudb]

Xenocrat wrote:

It fixes the alleged problem of having "nothing" to do offensively against creatures with all three mythic resilience saves. Of course it does less damage than an average strike, you're not a martial. A martial can't apply mythic proficiency to 3-4 strikes per round for 1 minute off a single mythic point expenditure.

You're also dazzling it constantly if you keep hitting it every round.

Still does nothing for the core problem of mythic Resiliency: making any non-support spell obsolete.

Imagine if Mythic Resistance instead downgraded attacks. And the solution was "grab a cantrip with your fighter, problem solved!".

[Calliope5431]

shroudb wrote:

Xenocrat wrote:

It fixes the alleged problem of having "nothing" to do offensively against creatures with all three mythic resilience saves. Of course it does less damage than an average strike, you're not a martial. A martial can't apply mythic proficiency to 3-4 strikes per round for 1 minute off a single mythic point expenditure.

You're also dazzling it constantly if you keep hitting it every round.

Still does nothing for the core problem of mythic Resiliency: making any non-support spell obsolete.

Imagine if Mythic Resistance instead downgraded attacks. And the solution was "grab a cantrip with your fighter, problem solved!".

I admit. I do remain completely appalled that mythic martials can bypass mythic resistance but casters have no equivalent for mythic resilience. It's just very poor design and if someone with an ax to grind against wanted to pick it up, it's sort of sitting right there as an argument in the old "Paizo hates casters because my wizard can no longer kill pantheons at level 10" debate" that we've been seeing since 2E came out.

I don't think they hate casters, for the record. But I do think it's bad design.

[Tridus]

Calliope5431 wrote:

shroudb wrote:

Xenocrat wrote:

It fixes the alleged problem of having "nothing" to do offensively against creatures with all three mythic resilience saves. Of course it does less damage than an average strike, you're not a martial. A martial can't apply mythic proficiency to 3-4 strikes per round for 1 minute off a single mythic point expenditure.

You're also dazzling it constantly if you keep hitting it every round.

Still does nothing for the core problem of mythic Resiliency: making any non-support spell obsolete.

Imagine if Mythic Resistance instead downgraded attacks. And the solution was "grab a cantrip with your fighter, problem solved!".

I admit. I do remain completely appalled that mythic martials can bypass mythic resistance but casters have no equivalent for mythic resilience. It's just very poor design and if someone with an ax to grind against wanted to pick it up, it's sort of sitting right there as an argument in the old "Paizo hates casters because my wizard can no longer kill pantheons at level 10" debate" that we've been seeing since 2E came out.

I don't think they hate casters, for the record. But I do think it's bad design.

I don't think they hate casters.

I DO think they overcompensate at times for the design problems in earlier editions where casters dominated the game. Mythic Resilience is definitely one of those times, since it's effectively crippling for all offensive magic in the game.

This is an absolutely terrible idea that will simply make a lot of spellcasting classes not fun to play in Mythic unless your GM just decides to never give anything Mythic Resilience.

That this actually exists in this form is remarkable.

[Calliope5431]

Tridus wrote:

Calliope5431 wrote:

shroudb wrote:

Xenocrat wrote:

It fixes the alleged problem of having "nothing" to do offensively against creatures with all three mythic resilience saves. Of course it does less damage than an average strike, you're not a martial. A martial can't apply mythic proficiency to 3-4 strikes per round for 1 minute off a single mythic point expenditure.

You're also dazzling it constantly if you keep hitting it every round.

Still does nothing for the core problem of mythic Resiliency: making any non-support spell obsolete.

Imagine if Mythic Resistance instead downgraded attacks. And the solution was "grab a cantrip with your fighter, problem solved!".

I admit. I do remain completely appalled that mythic martials can bypass mythic resistance but casters have no equivalent for mythic resilience. It's just very poor design and if someone with an ax to grind against wanted to pick it up, it's sort of sitting right there as an argument in the old "Paizo hates casters because my wizard can no longer kill pantheons at level 10" debate" that we've been seeing since 2E came out.

I don't think they hate casters, for the record. But I do think it's bad design.

I don't think they hate casters.

I DO think they overcompensate at times for the design problems in earlier editions where casters dominated the game. Mythic Resilience is definitely one of those times, since it's effectively crippling for all offensive magic in the game.

This is an absolutely terrible idea that will simply make a lot of spellcasting classes not fun to play in Mythic unless your GM just decides to never give anything Mythic Resilience.

That this actually exists in this form is remarkable.

Yeah I agree with that interpretation.

At the very least, you'd think mythic spells or mythic points could overcome it. But nope. And having it hit pure-damage spells (which already were probably only dealing half damage, yeesh) is just cruel.