New class options you're really hoping to see?

[Ravingdork]

Why does the summoner need "unchaining?"

Unlike the broken-by-the-remaster wizard and magus, most people I know consider the summoner to be a very powerful and fun class as it stands.

[Pronate11]

Ravingdork wrote:

Why does the summoner need "unchaining?"

Unlike the broken-by-the-remaster wizard and magus, most people I know consider the summoner to be a very powerful and fun class as it stands.

The magus is a very powerful and fun class. It just needs a moderate errata pass to fix some quality of life things. Same with the wizard, but it probably needs more errata than the magus, although less errata than the pre remaster alchemist got.

[keftiu]

Squiggit wrote:

I'd like to see class archetypes for Summoner, one to support meld with eidolon/synthesist style gameplay in a more streamlined fashion, and one to better support tandem strike/both characters are martials styling.

Synthesist Summoner has felt like a long wait, as has an Aberrant Eidolon option; both together would be a whole lot of fun.

[Deriven Firelion]

Ravingdork wrote:

Why does the summoner need "unchaining?"

Unlike the broken-by-the-remaster wizard and magus, most people I know consider the summoner to be a very powerful and fun class as it stands.

Improved options and fun. Power level is fine.

[The-Magic-Sword]

Summoner Class Archetype that increases your number of Eidolon Bodies and lets you launch volleys of magic blasts from them, with a flurry playstyle. They'd still share your health pool and actions and share MAP, but I'd want it to have a focus spell that replaces Boost Eidolon and lets them launch their volley with reduced MAP but action intensively. I'm thinking that it'd split your eidolon into 3 to 6 total bodies, possibly scaling up at higher levels.

[Ryangwy]

Not really a class option but we need more incarnate spells and more illusory creature like spells (proposed spells: animate plant, invoke elemental figment, animate weapon), then we can maybe have a summoner class archetype and a wizard school + maybe class archetype for it. We're so close to being able to fill entire spell lists with summon themed spells that do what you expect (respect to all the people who make summon spells work but ho boy are they a pain as a GM)

[Perpdepog]

You'll never catch me complaining about more incarnate spells. I'm still bummed we haven't got an occult incarnate spell that lets you cause a visitation from a Great Old One.

[Gortle]

Perpdepog wrote:

You'll never catch me complaining about more incarnate spells. I'm still bummed we haven't got an occult incarnate spell that lets you cause a visitation from a Great Old One.

I do like them as a concept. It solves the problem of players adding too many tokens to the map and slowing the play of the game. The two turns of effect is interesting. I would like more of them.

I do think that making summoning 3 actions with a sustain and having no multi creature summons was a good enough solution to problem. I'd like more summons as well. Also a non eidolon summoner, and enough options to make the sysnthesis summoner playable. Though I suspect what I'm after is outside of what Paizo want. I'll do it myself one day.

[Perpdepog]

Gortle wrote:

Perpdepog wrote:

You'll never catch me complaining about more incarnate spells. I'm still bummed we haven't got an occult incarnate spell that lets you cause a visitation from a Great Old One.

I do like them as a concept. It solves the problem of players adding too many tokens to the map and slowing the play of the game. The two turns of effect is interesting. I would like more of them.

I do think that making summoning 3 actions with a sustain and having no multi creature summons was a good enough solution to problem. I'd like more summons as well. Also a non eidolon summoner, and enough options to make the sysnthesis summoner playable. Though I suspect what I'm after is outside of what Paizo want. I'll do it myself one day.

I'd also suggest checking out Summoners+, as well.

[_shredder_]

I hope we get more psychic conscious mind options in the future. A toxikinesis focused one that heavily buffs puff of poison into something that isn't complete trash and gives you other options to psychically manipulate poisons and deal poison damage would be awesome and super unique. A healing focused one or one focused on sound and sonic damage would be cool too, as would be having WIS based subconscious minds.

[NoxiousMiasma]

Oh yeah, I'd also like to see more poison spells on the primal list (Life/Matter is the perfect overlap space for nasty venom tricks, and druids would exploit the heck out of that), and also more ice-related spells in general - cold is a pretty uncommon option right now.

[exequiel759]

Yeah, I forgot I really wanted an aether kineticist lol. That's probably the thing I would want to see the most, that plus bounded caster versions of all full casters.

[JiCi]

FIGHTER:
- a feat that grants a THIRD reaction on Reactive Strike, after Tactical Reflexes
- a feat that allows TWO flourishes per round.
- a feat that allows TWO stances per round.
- a feat that allows you to pick between TWO Critical Specialization Effects, like "you select 2 similar weappon groups and and switch effects"
- a feat that allows you to add critical effects beyond 10, such as 1 more effect if exceeded by 15, another additional effect if exceeded by 20, etc
- an alternate feat to Shield Block, if I'm not intenting to use a shield

[exequiel759]

I also think it would be cool if at some point we see a "warmage" or similar concept that has martial progression for spell attack rolls (and even spell DCs too, if it wouldn't be too much) that loses in some other areas to compensate for that.

And since we are talking about casters, I also woud like to see a caster with very few spell slots (like 2 or 3 max) but they can recharge them by resting 10 minutes like focus spells (or they use spells as if they were focus spells).

Both of these concepts could theoretically be used in a single class.

[Zoken44]

I just had a though for an Archetype I called "Spell Slinger" which gained the ability to put weapon potency rune on a special focus, but at the cost of an item penalty to their save DC. The idea to really focus in on that blaster-caster single target spell caster.

[Secret Wizard]

I just want something similar to Warrior Poet from 1E:

• Unarmored, no shield
  
• Strength + Dex
  
• Wields a 1H weapon
  
• Focused on mobility + defence (I really liked adding Combat Expertise / Defensive Fighting feats to it)

An Unarmored + No Shield archetype for a Guardian would be sick (depending on how the class turns out).

[Dubious Scholar]

Zoken44 wrote:

I just had a though for an Archetype I called "Spell Slinger" which gained the ability to put weapon potency rune on a special focus, but at the cost of an item penalty to their save DC. The idea to really focus in on that blaster-caster single target spell caster.

Like, you get an item bonus to spell attack rolls, but an equal item penalty to your save DC?

[keftiu]

Secret Wizard wrote:

I just want something similar to Warrior Poet from 1E:

• Unarmored, no shield
  
• Strength + Dex
  
• Wields a 1H weapon
  
• Focused on mobility + defence (I really liked adding Combat Expertise / Defensive Fighting feats to it)

An Unarmored + No Shield archetype for a Guardian would be sick (depending on how the class turns out).

At a glance, this 1e Archetype just kinda looks like a 2e Monk or Swashbuckler. What aren't you getting from those?

[Zoken44]

Dubious Scholar wrote:

Zoken44 wrote:

I just had a though for an Archetype I called "Spell Slinger" which gained the ability to put weapon potency rune on a special focus, but at the cost of an item penalty to their save DC. The idea to really focus in on that blaster-caster single target spell caster.

Like, you get an item bonus to spell attack rolls, but an equal item penalty to your save DC?

The idea is your archetype gives you an item called a "Slinger's Foci" that is typically wand-like that requires investment. While invested it has the benefits of a +1 potency rune, and this rune can be upgraded. While invested, your spell save takes a -2 item penalty

[Secret Wizard]

keftiu wrote:

Secret Wizard wrote:

I just want something similar to Warrior Poet from 1E:

• Unarmored, no shield
  
• Strength + Dex
  
• Wields a 1H weapon
  
• Focused on mobility + defence (I really liked adding Combat Expertise / Defensive Fighting feats to it)

An Unarmored + No Shield archetype for a Guardian would be sick (depending on how the class turns out).

At a glance, this 1e Archetype just kinda looks like a 2e Monk or Swashbuckler. What aren't you getting from those?

Katanas, baby, Katanas.

[SOLDIER-1st]

Secret Wizard wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Secret Wizard wrote:

I just want something similar to Warrior Poet from 1E:

• Unarmored, no shield
  
• Strength + Dex
  
• Wields a 1H weapon
  
• Focused on mobility + defence (I really liked adding Combat Expertise / Defensive Fighting feats to it)

An Unarmored + No Shield archetype for a Guardian would be sick (depending on how the class turns out).

At a glance, this 1e Archetype just kinda looks like a 2e Monk or Swashbuckler. What aren't you getting from those?

Katanas, baby, Katanas.

I have a character like that. I just reflavored the elven curve blade.

[Mangaholic13]

As I've previously said, more Unconscious and Conscious Minds for Psychics.

Also, a Wizard Character Archetype based around crafting Magic items.

Secret Wizard wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Secret Wizard wrote:

I just want something similar to Warrior Poet from 1E:

• Unarmored, no shield
  
• Strength + Dex
  
• Wields a 1H weapon
  
• Focused on mobility + defence (I really liked adding Combat Expertise / Defensive Fighting feats to it)

An Unarmored + No Shield archetype for a Guardian would be sick (depending on how the class turns out).

At a glance, this 1e Archetype just kinda looks like a 2e Monk or Swashbuckler. What aren't you getting from those?

Katanas, baby, Katanas.

...So, you want to be a Champion?

Also, just use a wakizashi.

[Secret Wizard]

Mangaholic13 wrote:

As I've previously said, more Unconscious and Conscious Minds for Psychics.

Also, a Wizard Character Archetype based around crafting Magic items.

Secret Wizard wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Secret Wizard wrote:

I just want something similar to Warrior Poet from 1E:

• Unarmored, no shield
  
• Strength + Dex
  
• Wields a 1H weapon
  
• Focused on mobility + defence (I really liked adding Combat Expertise / Defensive Fighting feats to it)

An Unarmored + No Shield archetype for a Guardian would be sick (depending on how the class turns out).

At a glance, this 1e Archetype just kinda looks like a 2e Monk or Swashbuckler. What aren't you getting from those?

Katanas, baby, Katanas.

...So, you want to be a Champion?

Also, just use a wakizashi.

It's a whole different feeling to use a larger blade than a short blade.

I'm a huge chanbara nerd, and I'd love to make a kensei-style swordmaster. All alternatives nowadays are either heavily armored, use smaller weapons, or don't really deliver the fantasy (stuff around parrying, mobility, legendary defence...)

Again, it's a niche, just like every other ask here. But nothing captures a properly built Warrior Poet.

I'd like to invite everyone to watch Samurai Rebellion or the Sword of Doom and not come out really hyped to build something like that.

[Mangaholic13]

Also, a kind of War Wizard Class Archetype could be interesting. Maybe gets some bonuses to using weapons and bonuses to resisting counterspelling?

[Perpdepog]

Secret Wizard wrote:

Mangaholic13 wrote:

As I've previously said, more Unconscious and Conscious Minds for Psychics.

Also, a Wizard Character Archetype based around crafting Magic items.

Secret Wizard wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Secret Wizard wrote:

I just want something similar to Warrior Poet from 1E:

• Unarmored, no shield
  
• Strength + Dex
  
• Wields a 1H weapon
  
• Focused on mobility + defence (I really liked adding Combat Expertise / Defensive Fighting feats to it)

An Unarmored + No Shield archetype for a Guardian would be sick (depending on how the class turns out).

At a glance, this 1e Archetype just kinda looks like a 2e Monk or Swashbuckler. What aren't you getting from those?

Katanas, baby, Katanas.

...So, you want to be a Champion?

Also, just use a wakizashi.

It's a whole different feeling to use a larger blade than a short blade.

I'm a huge chanbara nerd, and I'd love to make a kensei-style swordmaster. All alternatives nowadays are either heavily armored, use smaller weapons, or don't really deliver the fantasy (stuff around parrying, mobility, legendary defence...)

Again, it's a niche, just like every other ask here. But nothing captures a properly built Warrior Poet.

I'd like to invite everyone to watch Samurai Rebellion or the Sword of Doom and not come out really hyped to build something like that.

I know it's not up on AoN yet, but I think you may be happy with the Spirit Warrior archetype from the Tian Xia Character Guide. Its dedication gives you that combo-like attack that monks get, but open up the weapons you can use with it to include stuff like katanas and longswords.

[Elric200]

I would like to see a fighter stance that lets a martial use a twohanded weapon to block/ parry with shield block feats.

[Mangaholic13]

Elric200 wrote:

I would like to see a fighter stance that lets a martial use a twohanded weapon to block/ parry with shield block feats.

That doesn't sound like a bad idea (as it feels like two-handed weapons could use a bit more love), but just remember that using Shield Block with a weapon could run the risk of breaking the weapon.

[Emberlin]

Another take on a 'spell blade' potentially. Nothing against Magus, but I'd love a spell blade class that has distinct magical or elemental abilities that aren't literally just spells. Maybe take some of the 'stance dancing' inspiration from 2E Solarian and Exemplar and bouncing between elemental stances that infuse different properties into your weapon strikes etc. With Impulse like abilities that fit the magic of the class but aren't 'spells.' And incentive to bounce between different stances and infusions into your weapons. STR or DEX based rather than Kinetecist CON.

I don't think this is what Paizo 'should' make next or that it's likely to happen, but if I could selfishly wish for my own dream class it'd be something like that.

[BotBrain]

Mangaholic13 wrote:

Elric200 wrote:

I would like to see a fighter stance that lets a martial use a twohanded weapon to block/ parry with shield block feats.

That doesn't sound like a bad idea (as it feels like two-handed weapons could use a bit more love), but just remember that using Shield Block with a weapon could run the risk of breaking the weapon.

Honestly that sounds like part of the fun

[Gisher]

Emberlin wrote:

Another take on a 'spell blade' potentially. Nothing against Magus, but I'd love a spell blade class that has distinct magical or elemental abilities that aren't literally just spells. Maybe take some of the 'stance dancing' inspiration from 2E Solarian and Exemplar and bouncing between elemental stances that infuse different properties into your weapon strikes etc. With Impulse like abilities that fit the magic of the class but aren't 'spells.' And incentive to bounce between different stances and infusions into your weapons. STR or DEX based rather than Kinetecist CON.

I don't think this is what Paizo 'should' make next or that it's likely to happen, but if I could selfishly wish for my own dream class it'd be something like that.

That sounds a lot like the PF1 Warlock Vigilante with their Mystic Bolts. It would be fun to have something similar in PF2.

[DMurnett]

I want a basic "duelist" type subclass for Magus. Like Inexorable Iron is for two-handers, I want a hybrid study that facilitates the one-handed weapon plus free hand (aka duelist) playstyle. One without any other mechanical or flavorful baggage ideally. For example Laughing Shadow doesn't disincentivize it as much as Starlit Span or Sparkling Targe would, but its whole shadows and deception thing and even its teleporting around doesn't fit a lot of concepts I'd want to use Magus for. So yeah, I want something for Magus that's generic enough to work basically any concept into, but for a gameplay style that it's currently missing.

[Mangaholic13]

DMurnett wrote:

I want a basic "duelist" type subclass for Magus. Like Inexorable Iron is for two-handers, I want a hybrid study that facilitates the one-handed weapon plus free hand (aka duelist) playstyle. One without any other mechanical or flavorful baggage ideally. For example Laughing Shadow doesn't disincentivize it as much as Starlit Span or Sparkling Targe would, but its whole shadows and deception thing and even its teleporting around doesn't fit a lot of concepts I'd want to use Magus for. So yeah, I want something for Magus that's generic enough to work basically any concept into, but for a gameplay style that it's currently missing.

Do you own Tian Xia Character Guide? Because that introduced two new hybrid studies:

Aloof Firmament: based on Wuxia kung fu flick (with the leaping impossible distances and fighting in mid-air melee) that's stuff requires you fight with a one-handed sword group weapon (though you could convince the GM to let you use other one-handed melee weapons).
TLDR: Acrobatic leaps with one-handed weapons.

Unfurling Brocade: (not relevant to your desire) Transform clothe, ribbon, or (my favorite) scarves into a melee weapon with the power of Qi-infusing. Can be used for grapples, trips, and disarms. Mechanically functions like a Bladed Scarf but can be used one-handed (for less damage).
TLDR: Extreme towel whipping.

In fact, I think Unfurling Brocade's base ability is so cool, I'd like for an Archetype similar to it be created, perhaps just focused on Bladed Scarf/Whip.
Wouldn't be too weird, considering the Staff Acrobat.

[DMurnett]

Mangaholic13 wrote:

Do you own Tian Xia Character Guide? Because that introduced two new hybrid studies:

Aloof Firmament: based on Wuxia kung fu flick (with the leaping impossible distances and fighting in mid-air melee) that's stuff requires you fight with a one-handed sword group weapon (though you could convince the GM to let you use other one-handed melee weapons).
TLDR: Acrobatic leaps with one-handed weapons.

Unfurling Brocade: (not relevant to your desire) Transform clothe, ribbon, or (my favorite) scarves into a melee weapon with the power of Qi-infusing. Can be used for grapples, trips, and disarms. Mechanically functions like a Bladed Scarf but can be used one-handed (for less damage).
TLDR: Extreme towel whipping.

In fact, I think Unfurling Brocade's base ability is so cool, I'd like for an Archetype similar to it be created, perhaps just focused on Bladed Scarf/Whip.
Wouldn't be too weird, considering the Staff Acrobat.

For the record, no, I don't own the TXCG because I'm fairly poor and still catching up with old rulebooks and Lost Omens, but that'd be whatever if Archives of Nethys was up to date. Either way, as you mention, that second one is irrelevant to me in specific though admittedly cool, but I wanna linger on that first one. It's actually probably close enough for the concept I want it for in specific, but it doesn't help the core issue that duelist playstyles on the Magus are strangely restricted as compared to, say, a sword 'n shield or even full ranged build. Doubly so because RAW Aloof Firmament (the closest thing) requires a one-handed sword and while I'm sure by and large home tables would be willing to hand-wave it, Society players have no such luck. So, yeah, please give us a proper duelist Hybrid Study. Twin weapon would be cool too actually. Unarmed as well but that seems rather difficult from Magus' increased reliance on staves compared to regular casters who already want them a lot.

[Mangaholic13]

I'd also like to see more love thrown to Staff weapons, such as quarterstaffs, bo staves, canes, and other not just a club weapons.

Such as stave related feats for Fighter, Monk, and maybe even Wizard.

DMurnett wrote:

Mangaholic13 wrote:

Do you own Tian Xia Character Guide? Because that introduced two new hybrid studies:

Aloof Firmament: based on Wuxia kung fu flick (with the leaping impossible distances and fighting in mid-air melee) that's stuff requires you fight with a one-handed sword group weapon (though you could convince the GM to let you use other one-handed melee weapons).
TLDR: Acrobatic leaps with one-handed weapons.

Unfurling Brocade: (not relevant to your desire) Transform clothe, ribbon, or (my favorite) scarves into a melee weapon with the power of Qi-infusing. Can be used for grapples, trips, and disarms. Mechanically functions like a Bladed Scarf but can be used one-handed (for less damage).
TLDR: Extreme towel whipping.

In fact, I think Unfurling Brocade's base ability is so cool, I'd like for an Archetype similar to it be created, perhaps just focused on Bladed Scarf/Whip.
Wouldn't be too weird, considering the Staff Acrobat.

For the record, no, I don't own the TXCG because I'm fairly poor and still catching up with old rulebooks and Lost Omens, but that'd be whatever if Archives of Nethys was up to date. Either way, as you mention, that second one is irrelevant to me in specific though admittedly cool, but I wanna linger on that first one. It's actually probably close enough for the concept I want it for in specific, but it doesn't help the core issue that duelist playstyles on the Magus are strangely restricted as compared to, say, a sword 'n shield or even full ranged build. Doubly so because RAW Aloof Firmament (the closest thing) requires a one-handed sword and while I'm sure by and large home tables would be willing to hand-wave it, Society players have no such luck. So, yeah, please give us a proper duelist Hybrid Study. Twin weapon would be cool too actually. Unarmed as well but that seems rather difficult from Magus' increased reliance on staves compared to regular casters who...

Fair enough. I do agree that Magus could use a Hybrid Study focused on one-handed weapons as well as dual wielding.

Although... in terms of Sword and Shield, can't you cover that with Sparkling Targe?

[Perpdepog]

The book's not even out yet and I'm already jonesing for more mythic destinies.

[DMurnett]

Mangaholic13 wrote:

Although... in terms of Sword and Shield, can't you cover that with Sparkling Targe?

Yes, that was my point, my bad if I worded it poorly. Magus has good support for two-handers, archers (and other ranged builds but bows are the only one that's, like, good), and a sword (or other dangerous instrument) 'n shield, and not for duelist, twin weapons, or unarmed (but again, super unlikely), and I want this discrepancy cleared, though I personally value duelist the most out of that bunch.

[Secret Wizard]

Perpdepog wrote:

I know it's not up on AoN yet, but I think you may be happy with the Spirit Warrior archetype from the Tian Xia Character Guide. Its dedication gives you that combo-like attack that monks get, but open up the weapons you can use with it to include stuff like katanas and longswords.

I wanna like this, I really do, but there's one problem... it doesn't have a baseline class that goes with it well.

It'd work great with Swash or Rogue if I could get +2 to Strength to use a longsword or a katana effectively, but no dice.

I actually think that the new Fighter archetype would also be pretty viable if it allowed the use of swords.

[TheFinish]

Secret Wizard wrote:

Perpdepog wrote:

I know it's not up on AoN yet, but I think you may be happy with the Spirit Warrior archetype from the Tian Xia Character Guide. Its dedication gives you that combo-like attack that monks get, but open up the weapons you can use with it to include stuff like katanas and longswords.

I wanna like this, I really do, but there's one problem... it doesn't have a baseline class that goes with it well.

It'd work great with Swash or Rogue if I could get +2 to Strength to use a longsword or a katana effectively, but no dice.

I actually think that the new Fighter archetype would also be pretty viable if it allowed the use of swords.

Ruffian and (as of War of Immortals) Avenger Rogues can get Strength as their KAS, and both can Sneak Attack with Katanas. Only Avengers can SA with Longswords though.

Swashes and Dex Rogues would have to go for the Dueling Sword (which has always been depicted as a weird katana) to get the same "feel".

[Mangaholic13]

So... I just had a potentially interesting/horrific idea:

A class archetype for Summoners where they trade in their Eidolon for a magical weapon born from their imagination.
They're proficiency level would be the same as Eidolons with their unarmed strikes... but only for their weapon (which I'll just call an Eidolon weapon), not any similar weapon.

Meaning, just because their Eidolon weapon takes the form of a Sword, does not mean the Summoner has Master in swords.

The justification could be that the Eidolon Weapon is actually guiding the Summoner's strikes, hence why the Summoner isn't actually that proficient with weapons.

What do you guys think?

[Old_Man_Robot]

Mangaholic13 wrote:

So... I just had a potentially interesting/horrific idea:

A class archetype for Summoners where they trade in their Eidolon for a magical weapon born from their imagination.
They're proficiency level would be the same as Eidolons with their unarmed strikes... but only for their weapon (which I'll just call an Eidolon weapon), not any similar weapon.

Meaning, just because their Eidolon weapon takes the form of a Sword, does not mean the Summoner has Master in swords.

The justification could be that the Eidolon Weapon is actually guiding the Summoner's strikes, hence why the Summoner isn't actually that proficient with weapons.

What do you guys think?

Gives me the classic Black Blade/ Black Razor vibes.

[Squiggit]

That sounds pretty cool, magic sword is fun though I think it'd be a little tricky to make that work with existing summoner options that are mostly about altering a creature-

... Though honestly I kind of think they should just give the Summoner normal weapon progression too. You're already hitting at martial proficiency thanks to your eidolon, so all keeping the Summoner on caster track does is make feats like tandem strike a trap. Person who fights alongside their eidolon is cool conceptual space but it's so bad right now.

[Calliope5431]

Old_Man_Robot wrote:

Mangaholic13 wrote:

So... I just had a potentially interesting/horrific idea:

A class archetype for Summoners where they trade in their Eidolon for a magical weapon born from their imagination.
They're proficiency level would be the same as Eidolons with their unarmed strikes... but only for their weapon (which I'll just call an Eidolon weapon), not any similar weapon.

Meaning, just because their Eidolon weapon takes the form of a Sword, does not mean the Summoner has Master in swords.

The justification could be that the Eidolon Weapon is actually guiding the Summoner's strikes, hence why the Summoner isn't actually that proficient with weapons.

What do you guys think?

Gives me the classic Black Blade/ Black Razor vibes.

Oh lord, not Michael Moorcock. goes off muttering something about Epic Pooh

I agree with Squiggit though that summoner could really use better proficiency. Mostly because dragon riders are sad right now, and I want them to not be sad.

[Secret Wizard]

TheFinish wrote:

Secret Wizard wrote:

Perpdepog wrote:

I know it's not up on AoN yet, but I think you may be happy with the Spirit Warrior archetype from the Tian Xia Character Guide. Its dedication gives you that combo-like attack that monks get, but open up the weapons you can use with it to include stuff like katanas and longswords.

I wanna like this, I really do, but there's one problem... it doesn't have a baseline class that goes with it well.

It'd work great with Swash or Rogue if I could get +2 to Strength to use a longsword or a katana effectively, but no dice.

I actually think that the new Fighter archetype would also be pretty viable if it allowed the use of swords.

Ruffian and (as of War of Immortals) Avenger Rogues can get Strength as their KAS, and both can Sneak Attack with Katanas. Only Avengers can SA with Longswords though.

Swashes and Dex Rogues would have to go for the Dueling Sword (which has always been depicted as a weird katana) to get the same "feel".

You are a genius, didn't realize the new Ruffian wording on what constituted an able weapon.

[exequiel759]

The idea of a weapon summoner is really cool but mechanically hard to grasp since most of the already existing summoner feats aren't worded to allow it, at least not without this class archetype changing how all those feats work.

[pH unbalanced]

Mangaholic13 wrote:

So... I just had a potentially interesting/horrific idea:

A class archetype for Summoners where they trade in their Eidolon for a magical weapon born from their imagination.
They're proficiency level would be the same as Eidolons with their unarmed strikes... but only for their weapon (which I'll just call an Eidolon weapon), not any similar weapon.

Meaning, just because their Eidolon weapon takes the form of a Sword, does not mean the Summoner has Master in swords.

The justification could be that the Eidolon Weapon is actually guiding the Summoner's strikes, hence why the Summoner isn't actually that proficient with weapons.

What do you guys think?

This isn't what you are talking about, but I am now imagining a Yaoguai Summoner whose eidolon wields them while in object form.

[Squiggit]

This is out there a tiny bit, but I'd really like a Swashbuckler... archetype? Style? Something... that gave you a Str KAS and modified/toned down precise strike but available with more weapon types.

Stylish character with a big weapon is kind of a fun design space and I've had a few players approach me with characters that are like almost swashbucklers but they don't use finesse weapons and I feel like it would be a fun way to expand the class chassis.

Plus like... we have rogues who can sneak attack with greataxes now anyways.

[BotBrain]

exequiel759 wrote:

The idea of a weapon summoner is really cool but mechanically hard to grasp since most of the already existing summoner feats aren't worded to allow it, at least not without this class archetype changing how all those feats work.

Yeah I feel like it would have to be a step above a class archtype, which (I think), don't normally touch already existing feats.

[Mangaholic13]

Calliope5431 wrote:

Old_Man_Robot wrote:

Mangaholic13 wrote:

So... I just had a potentially interesting/horrific idea:

A class archetype for Summoners where they trade in their Eidolon for a magical weapon born from their imagination.
They're proficiency level would be the same as Eidolons with their unarmed strikes... but only for their weapon (which I'll just call an Eidolon weapon), not any similar weapon.

Meaning, just because their Eidolon weapon takes the form of a Sword, does not mean the Summoner has Master in swords.

The justification could be that the Eidolon Weapon is actually guiding the Summoner's strikes, hence why the Summoner isn't actually that proficient with weapons.

What do you guys think?

Gives me the classic Black Blade/ Black Razor vibes.

Oh lord, not Michael Moorcock. goes off muttering something about Epic Pooh

*Looks up what the heck Calliope is talking about.*

...Never heard of this guy or his terrible ''review'' of Lord of the Rings... And I'm not sure I ever wanted to know he existed.

Honestly, ''Epic Pooh'' makes me think more of "Winnie the Pooh and friends as a band of heroic adventurers, probably fighting Heffalumps and Woozles," not "Moron with diarrhea tries to make Tolkien his toilet".

And yeah, my "Weapon Summoner" idea would probably require giving the Class Archetype access to a large number of Fighter class feats to work.

[Secret Wizard]

Squiggit wrote:

This is out there a tiny bit, but I'd really like a Swashbuckler... archetype? Style? Something... that gave you a Str KAS and modified/toned down precise strike but available with more weapon types.

Stylish character with a big weapon is kind of a fun design space and I've had a few players approach me with characters that are like almost swashbucklers but they don't use finesse weapons and I feel like it would be a fun way to expand the class chassis.

Plus like... we have rogues who can sneak attack with greataxes now anyways.

This is literally my longsword/katana duelist ask!

[Enchanter Tim]

I'd like to do the unassuming farmboy with a simple quarterstaff who has no magic, but still beats the snot out of trained swordsmen. 2e doesn't have double weapons, so no particular synergy there with fighter or ranger. I thought a gymnast Swashbuckler fit really well (loved the riposte) until I realized that without a free hand, you need a weapon with the trip/shove traits to get panache. I'd also love to be able to disarm too as that just seems to fit the vibe.

Using a monk with a bo staff kind of works and can even give him an unarmored feel, but it's limited to tripping only and the mystical part of the monk seem odd. Or maybe it's just that I have a non-mystical monk already and I didn't want to go down the same path.