What is going on with the steed feets?


Commander Class Discussion


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

So amidst everything else in this class i cannot help but notice that commander gets some of the quirkiest animal companion access among its feats.

Command steed starts off well, a basic young companion with extra banner utility, but then battle tested war horse is next, for mature companions and without the free action upside that is normally a great bonus. But as a bonus no one can mind control your horse and make it attack you, yay?

Then we get battle hardened destrier, where we finally get that free move, yay, but then it just stops, this horse we have invested a third of our total class feats into just never gets the animal companion capstone in specialties.

Just, am I alone thinking this is all just, really weird?


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No, you're not. This is easily the worst animal companion of any class, and if your campaign is going to go much beyond level 10 you're going to need to retrain out of it because it's not getting that extra proficiency at 14.

Edit: On a whim, I looked at Champion... and these feats are basically copy-pasted from Steed Ally's upgrades, except it never gets that final upgrade. (And Champion actually has a unique capstone for Steed Ally beyond Specialized too)


It would be cool if instead of weaker companion Commander had access to one with special abilities - namely one that has a reaction and can participate in Commander's tactics.


Animal Companions as a whole are whacky and wonky. No one knows if they are good or bad, rather they do something or nothing and if 4 feats make them worth any thing. There is a reason people do Beastmaster or skip them. (Beastmaster makes Animal Companions on par with Pre-Remastered Alchemist if using Free Archetype)

Commander has a bunch of feats that feel like they don't belong, the anime companion or some defensive feats that should go to the Guardian.


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edoipi wrote:
It would be cool if instead of weaker companion Commander had access to one with special abilities - namely one that has a reaction and can participate in Commander's tactics.

Drilled Reactions:

"Once per round, when you use a tactic, you can grant one ally of your choice benefiting from that tactic an extra reaction. This reaction has to be used for that tactic, and is lost if not used."

Your steed can already "participate in Commander's tactics".


The weirdest part is that the Cavalier archetype doesn't have any of the nerfs that Commander has. So if you want a steed on a Commander the Cavalier archetype is strictly superior to your own class feats.


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Sy Kerraduess wrote:
The weirdest part is that the Cavalier archetype doesn't have any of the nerfs that Commander has. So if you want a steed on a Commander the Cavalier archetype is strictly superior to your own class feats.

Not "strictly superior", as the Commander ones allow for banner holding and immunity from attacks steed attacks. Depending on tactics, the ability to have your banner move around independent from the commander could be a better benefit from getting a specialization feat for your mount.

Now, this isn't me saying there SHOULDN'T be more/lower level feats for steeds, just that the current feats do have unique abilities that the traditional feats do not offer.


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It feels like putting your Commander's Banner on a mount is just second nature. However since you can put it on a weapon, shield or even backpack does this even count? It feels like second nature as in you should just be allowed to do it by default.


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ElementalofCuteness wrote:
It feels like putting your Commander's Banner on a mount is just second nature. However since you can put it on a weapon, shield or even backpack does this even count? It feels like second nature as in you should just be allowed to do it by default.

Put on your backpack or mount would normally only get you "+1 status bonus to Will saves and DCs against fear effects." All other "Feats and abilities with the banner trait require you to be holding your banner or wielding a weapon or shield it is attached to." That's why it allows you to put it on the mount in the steed feat as otherwise it wouldn't affect your banner feats and abilities.


Oh right!


Yeah, I think the reason why it's progression is so bad compared to other classes/archetypes, is because

a) it can benefit from your tactics and many of those give you free actions on the side, so it does not eat up your free reaction

and b) it is not supposed to be a fighting companion, just a mount. As a mount, specializing in it is a trap and not really necessary, since you will almost never want to strike with it, as it shares your MAP and it does it's job fine already.

To be honest, from my experience no matter what animal companion you build, even the supposedly "overpowered" nimble full specialized AC is absolutely not worth the insane feat investment required doing all that for what you get out of it at the end. Every single class, even casters have better feats from an optimization perspective. And from a flavor perspective, all those feats are unnecessary anyway.


a. Normal beastmaster companions can still benefit you though? Like, I can still have a beastmaster progression of feats while also giving them reactions


Since i play free archetype i'm probably never taking those anyway but yeah, they need to be fixed


I do think it's weird, yeah. Given how the Commander only has 2 16th-level feats and a ton of blank page space on page 12, it would've been easy to copy-paste Auspicious Mount or some equivalent as a 16th-level feat. It'd be good to get a developer comment on this, as this does feel like a missed opportunity, but there might've also been some reason behind the omission.


It will force me to be a Beastmaster

Shadow Lodge

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Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
graystone wrote:
Sy Kerraduess wrote:
The weirdest part is that the Cavalier archetype doesn't have any of the nerfs that Commander has. So if you want a steed on a Commander the Cavalier archetype is strictly superior to your own class feats.

Not "strictly superior", as the Commander ones allow for banner holding and immunity from attacks steed attacks. Depending on tactics, the ability to have your banner move around independent from the commander could be a better benefit from getting a specialization feat for your mount.

Now, this isn't me saying there SHOULDN'T be more/lower level feats for steeds, just that the current feats do have unique abilities that the traditional feats do not offer.

Yeah, for the playtest I'm going to lean into a Commander with a mount that is used as a mobile banner platform and see how that goes.

It is clear to me that from a design standpoing they chose to make the companion weaker because of this interaction, and I want to see how that plays out in practice.

I don't think they *should* have weakened it, mind you, but that's why I'm going to playtest it, so that I can provide feedback. I've played a cavalier, so I'll be able to compare my experience directly.

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