My character heavily relies on short 1min buffs which really need to be cast before entering a room of foes. I'm looking for ways to know whether or not a threat is on the other side of a door so I can prebuff without spending a level 4 spell slot or above. Other than a Perception check could someone recommend somewhat reliable way? Spells with a duration of 8hrs like Tremorsense would be fine, would Tremorsense be one way?
Eyes, ears, scent, innocuous familiar, clairaudience/clairvoyance, prying eye, summoned monsters (such as an invisible stalker) to name a few in my own toolbox.
The Wild Witch will have a nice one. But other than that, Prying Eyes is the only reliable way I know of (and it's very GM dependent).
The Wild Witch will have a nice one. But other than that, Prying Eyes is the only reliable way I know of (and it's very GM dependent).
My old GM popped more prying eyes than a swarm of kids at a balloon-filled birthday party.
Suddenly, there were plenty of wards, creatures with see invisibility, etc. to counter, curtail, or otherwise limit the spell's usefulness.
Invisibility + Pest Form.
Interesting, can this form squeeze beneath a typical dungeon door?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The Wild Witch will have a nice one. But other than that, Prying Eyes is the only reliable way I know of (and it's very GM dependent).My old GM popped more prying eyes than a swarm of kids at a balloon-filled birthday party.
Suddenly, there were plenty of wards, creatures with see invisibility, etc. to counter, curtail, or otherwise limit the spell's usefulness.
thats not good gming if you ask me
|
"Tiny animal, such as a cat, insect, lizard, or rat." I really don't think ants, flies or, don't know, ticks were the intent. So never considered anything smaller than small lizard. And not a (real life) tiny one.Tiny, so I think it could.Invisibility + Pest Form.Interesting, can this form squeeze beneath a typical dungeon door?
Obviously it will be GM-fiat. Familiars were mentioned above though and a RL rat can squeeze in tight spaces.
We usually use stealth. Send the stealth character forward and have them check the next room out.
You can try animal companions as well.
Ho, I forgot a great classic: The Eidolon scout. This one can go anywhere.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I assume that if enemies see a medium/large sized creature appear in their room they won't simply stay put for 2-3-4 however many rounds the OP needs to prebuff himself, but get ready themselves/open the door? (after they down the eidolon)
The goal is to be stealthy with your Eidolon. But, unlike the Rogue, if the Eidolon gets caught you can just unmanifest it and you manifest it again next to you. So you are 100 ft. away from the enemies and they need to determine what happened (most enemies are not really good at magic skills).
This is one of the best way to scout as the Eidolon can open doors and will trigger traps and ambushes unlike spells. The only drawback being that the Eidolon can be caught, but it's a small drawback considering the assets.
|
|
Obviously it will be GM-fiat. Familiars were mentioned above though and a RL rat can squeeze in tight spaces."Tiny animal, such as a cat, insect, lizard, or rat." I really don't think ants, flies or, don't know, ticks were the intent. So never considered anything smaller than small lizard. And not a (real life) tiny one.Tiny, so I think it could.Invisibility + Pest Form.Interesting, can this form squeeze beneath a typical dungeon door?Yes, rats can squeeze in some tight places, but they are actually quite big, they still can't get through 1mm-hole, for example. And that's what I meant - millimeters-scale.
And of course, it's rather easy to imagine dungeon doors tight down to millimeters.
If dungeon doors are airtight, I will ask the GM to start suffocating all living creatures inside.
And if a rat cannot pass under the door, I will question the whole ecosystem if it feels like it could only exist with such passages.
Reminds me fondly of the time the GM had to erase the crocodiles he put in a pit in abandoned ruins after we asked what they ate before PCs happened by.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You don't need to be good at magic to immediately sound an alarm when you see a weird creature, with a painfully obvious magical mark on it, appear near you.
That's an immediate cause for initiative roll.
Yes, and?
I don't follow you. As I said, you just Unmanifest your Eidolon and the fight is over.(Let alone that a shining symbol that glows and you cannot cover no matter what is an important hindrance to the stealthy part to begin with)
I've never seen a GM giving circumstance penalties for that. It'd be rather nasty to consider that your appearance has an impact on your Stealth modifier. There'd be many Ancestries/Heritages impacted.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If the mark gave a penalty to stealth checks it would write it out as such. I see no such wording in the summoner class write up
The fight is not over just because the eidolon unmanifested?
Why would it be?
Because there's no one fighting anymore.
The just alerted guards start searching.
Obviously. And?
And the mark is a shining symbol that specifically you cannot cover its glow. I haven't seen anyone NOT take that into account during stealth (which usually forces the summoner to unmanifest in such scenarios in a lot of tables I've sat)
It's like trying to hide with a torch.
No, it's glowing, it's not lighting around. The rules don't specify the sigil is a light source. If you have it on your chest, no one can see it unless they see your chest (which in general means you're detected). If you have it on your palm, you can just close your hand (your skin is no clothing).
And anyway, even if you are detected, we get back to first scenario: The Summoner can just Unmanifest you.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Reminds me fondly of the time the GM had to erase the crocodiles he put in a pit in abandoned ruins after we asked what they ate before PCs happened by.
Ecology is not a strong suit of dungeon designers. :-)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It sounds absolutely absurd to me that you think that initiative is over because an eidolon gets unmanifested.
There is obvious threat around as far as the guards are concerned , which means you are in initiative.
As soon as it unmanifests it's not like their alert levels "reset".
I don't deny that. I just asked: And?
The guards are on alert, fine. But the goal is reached: You can cast a few spells before entering combat. The fact that the guards are on alert is roughly secondary (if you are scouting, chances are great the enemies will be the ones jumping on the party anyway).As for the mark being on the chest, inside darkness, the mark is visible even if the rest of the chest is not.
We are speaking of an advanced scout, not of infiltration. The Eidolon just scouts to detect enemies. Once the enemies are detected, its goal is reached: You can prebuff. There's no need to get into a room full of enemies, you can just say at the door frame where your sigil is not a problem (unless you rule that it sheds light like a torch, but that's definitely not in the rules).
The Wild Witch will have a nice one. But other than that, Prying Eyes is the only reliable way I know of (and it's very GM dependent).My old GM popped more prying eyes than a swarm of kids at a balloon-filled birthday party.
Suddenly, there were plenty of wards, creatures with see invisibility, etc. to counter, curtail, or otherwise limit the spell's usefulness.
Said with all love as perhaps the GM being referred to here:
It happened 1 time! The scenario was that there was a pit with a wide 10x10 mine shaft in the wall at the bottom. The players didn't know that there was a Dragon witch living in the mine, using thralls to mine rune stones for sale to a couple of undead kingdoms in the area. The Dragon witch had a glyph of warding with a sound burst on it set 30 ft in from the mine's entrance (all of this set before the party arrived). There was a password to get past it, but the party fought and killed all the people outside the mine before this scouting attempt was made. It was a pretty low damage trap, but one that would make a very loud noise and alert everyone in the mine (and outside as well) that trouble had arrived.
Oops, it did happen one other time now that I am thinking about it. But that is because the sensor flew into a room that was a red draon's lair built around an altar to elemental fire that caused the whole room to be a an environmental Hazard. The party could see the bright flames from outside the tower. Prying eye had been used to scout much of the rest of the ruined city prior to sending it into the tower though.
Reminds me fondly of the time the GM had to erase the crocodiles he put in a pit in abandoned ruins after we asked what they ate before PCs happened by.Ecology is not a strong suit of dungeon designers. :-)
I would strongly argue that Paizo dungeon designers put an amazing amount of thought into their dungeon ecologies, and I think half the reason I play APs is to act as a dungeon ecologist and try to learn what every dungeon was, and how the creatures in it got there. There are so many opportunities to create chaos with Paizo dungeons by changing environmental factors and letting unfriendly hostile creatures into places where they couldn't get before. Paizo is the best in the business at Dungeon ecology if you ask me.
Ho, I forgot a great classic: The Eidolon scout. This one can go anywhere.
Said with all love as perhaps the GM being referred to here...The Wild Witch will have a nice one. But other than that, Prying Eyes is the only reliable way I know of (and it's very GM dependent).My old GM popped more prying eyes than a swarm of kids at a balloon-filled birthday party.
Suddenly, there were plenty of wards, creatures with see invisibility, etc. to counter, curtail, or otherwise limit the spell's usefulness.
LOL. Not you, but thanks for sharing some fun moments from our games.
Last time I checked, you were an awesome GM.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I recommend the old AD&D method: Gallus domesticus.
Buy a whole bunch of them and you have a handy way to detect traps and scout for danger. Plus, you can eat them afterwards!