A number of questions / rules-clarification requests for the Exemplar


Exemplar Class Discussion


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Excited by the Exemplar. I have these questions about the intended rules after reading them through:

Page 19. The Mournful epithet refers to "tears or memories dance in their eyes," but it has only the mental and emotion traits (not visual). So I assume a blind creature with emotions is affected, yes?

Page 21. Whose Cry of Thunder: The Immanence effect says that when you crit with the weapon, "lightning strikes a target within 30 feet..." Can that be the same creature as the one you just hit?

Page 22. The overview of Ikons lets you change your ikon "to the new object by spending 1 day of downtime." I'm assuming this can be done with weapon and worn ikons, but [u]not[/u] body ikons. Would this be correct?

Page 23. Noble Branch: The Transcend ability lets you deal spirit damage to a creature you had a successful Strike against. It takes "spirit damage equal to your weapon damage dice." Is this supposed to read the [u]number[/u] of your weapon damage dice, as in 1 spirit damage if you don't have striking runes? Or do they take 1d12 damage if you just struck them with a greataxe?

Page 24. Skybearer's Belt says only "all allies" can carry more Bulk, which I thought strange given the theme of the ability magnifies "[u]your[/u] strength." Should this read "you and all allies"?

Page 26. Motionless Cutter: So long as you successfully Strike with the weapon, you can make another attempt until you make four Strikes this way. When it says you must strike "another target," can it be one you previously successfully did a Strike against with this ability? For example: hit target A, then target B, then target A?

Page 26. Binding Serpents Celestial Arrow: It says "the arrow" transforms and immobilizes the target. But it also indicates you can use this with thrown weapons. So if used with a thrown weapon I'm assuming it must not return to your hand in order to immobilize the creature...

Page 27. Extract Vow of Nonviolence refers to the "moderate DC for the weapon's level." Should this read "standard DC"?

Scarab Sages

Adding my Shifting rune question to here because might as well make it a thread for questions.

Shifting Rune. Do you keep your Weapon Ikon benefit if you shift to a weapon not covered by the ikon requirement? My gut says yes as currently written, since it's innately tied to the weapon itself, but seems like an important point to ask.

Similarly, Modular would bring up the same question in regards to Barrow's Edge. Would swapping your Barrow to Bludgeoning keep the bonus?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Less a rules question and more pointing out a necessary rule patch. Whose cry is Thunder triggers on any crit on any creature which will inevitably lead to nonlethally beating on captured -1 creatures or some bizarre combo where the player will nonlethally beat the stuffing out of caster's familiar or something to generate mass lightning bolts.

Much as I enjoy the imagery of the raijin beating on a living taiko drum.

Scarab Sages

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Hurl at the Horizon: Does the weapon return to your hand after being thrown? Asking since otherwise it is not possible for a Melee weapon without the Thrown trait initially to ever get Returning.


The Rot Grub "The Rules Lawyer" wrote:
Page 22. The overview of Ikons lets you change your ikon "to the new object by spending 1 day of downtime." I'm assuming this can be done with weapon and worn ikons, but [u]not[/u] body ikons. Would this be correct?

Given that as far as I can tell the only thing that changes is the Vessel of the power, and not the Type of Ikon it is... it's arguably not gonna come up much, but at the same time if you do wind up somehow being body swapped, being able to transfer your Body Ikon over to your new Body might still be useful.

The Rot Grub "The Rules Lawyer" wrote:
Page 23. Noble Branch: The Transcend ability lets you deal spirit damage to a creature you had a successful Strike against. It takes "spirit damage equal to your weapon damage dice." Is this supposed to read the [u]number[/u] of your weapon damage dice, as in 1 spirit damage if you don't have striking runes? Or do they take 1d12 damage if you just struck them with a greataxe?

For starters, outside of the possibility of Shifting rune shenanigans, depending on rulings on that, I don't think you could get this feature on a Greataxe. That aside though, I hope it is the latter because spending an entire action for flat 1-4 damage just doesn't feel worth it, even if it is guaranteed damage.

The Rot Grub "The Rules Lawyer wrote:
Page 26. Binding Serpents Celestial Arrow: It says "the arrow" transforms and immobilizes the target. But it also indicates you can use this with thrown weapons. So if used with a thrown weapon I'm assuming it must not return to your hand in order to immobilize the creature...

As an aside to this one, a lot of Ranged Weapon abilities tend to specify Arrow, despite both thrown weapons and just in general other projectiles generally working with them. Can be a little bit awkward sometimes.

Falgaia wrote:
Hurl at the Horizon: Does the weapon return to your hand after being thrown? Asking since otherwise it is not possible for a Melee weapon without the Thrown trait initially to ever get Returning.

Unfortunately I'm pretty sure you need the Mated Birds in Paired Flight feat 6 levels later (and also either the level 1 Twin Stars or level 8 Additional Ikon into another Weapon, so you qualify) to get Returning on your Hurl at the Horizon thrown weapon.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
The Rot Grub "The Rules Lawyer" wrote:


Page 26. Binding Serpents Celestial Arrow: It says "the arrow" transforms and immobilizes the target. But it also indicates you can use this with thrown weapons. So if used with a thrown weapon I'm assuming it must not return to your hand in order to immobilize the creature...

On this one in particular a thing that stood out is it said 'Strike' while including weapons with the thrown trait. I think this should be clarified to ranged attack? With how it currently is if something has the thrown trait because it uses the word strike it means you can just stab them and immobilize them if it was a dagger, correct?

Also a clarification I'd like is do ikon feats that add features (such as the one that gives your ikon weapon thrown!!!) allow you to qualify for future ones?

Another clarification I'd personally like is how many of your ikon feats and abilities do they apply to? If I have 2 ikon weapons thanks to the 8th level feat and they both meet the requirements can I use Binding Serpents Celestial Arrow with both of them or is this put on only the specific ikon?

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
The Rot Grub "The Rules Lawyer" wrote:
Page 26. Motionless Cutter: So long as you successfully Strike with the weapon, you can make another attempt until you make four Strikes this way. When it says you must strike "another target," can it be one you previously successfully did a Strike against with this ability? For example: hit target A, then target B, then target A?

Adding in that if Motionless Cutter's transcend ability cannot strike the same target 4 times, then it should not be called "Severing Four Dragonfly Wings." A dragonfly has four wings; as named, the ability is implying four strikes against the same creature by name. As-is, I'd go so far to say that the "another" in this ability is too vague and could be still stretched to interpret a second attack on the same enemy as "another target" due to this being a separate attack; changing the wording to "a different target from the prior strike(s?)" would be clearer wording.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Falgaia wrote:
The Rot Grub "The Rules Lawyer" wrote:
Page 26. Motionless Cutter: So long as you successfully Strike with the weapon, you can make another attempt until you make four Strikes this way. When it says you must strike "another target," can it be one you previously successfully did a Strike against with this ability? For example: hit target A, then target B, then target A?
Adding in that if Motionless Cutter's transcend ability cannot strike the same target 4 times, then it should not be called "Severing Four Dragonfly Wings." A dragonfly has four wings; as named, the ability is implying four strikes against the same creature by name. As-is, I'd go so far to say that the "another" in this ability is too vague and could be still stretched to interpret a second attack on the same enemy as "another target" due to this being a separate attack; changing the wording to "a different target from the prior strike(s?)" would be clearer wording.

"another target" is consistent with other similar abilities in the past. i think you will be hard pressed to find someone that would allow back and forth switching of targets.

That said, about the name, since the whole class is about metaphors, grand names, and such, there's no reason why the "dragonfly" can't be refering to the "whole ordeal" you are facing. Hence, "severing the 4 wings of the dragonfly" could be interpeted easily as striking at the four enemies that are making this obstacle for your legend.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Quote:
Page 22. The overview of Ikons lets you change your ikon "to the new object by spending 1 day of downtime." I'm assuming this can be done with weapon and worn ikons, but [u]not[/u] body ikons. Would this be correct?

I'd definitely leave the wording as-is. "Powerful individual having the bodily source of their strength cut off but recovered after a period of time" does have some precedent after all.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Falgaia wrote:
Hurl at the Horizon: Does the weapon return to your hand after being thrown? Asking since otherwise it is not possible for a Melee weapon without the Thrown trait initially to ever get Returning.

Okay so I thought of a solution to this problem- give the feat a Transcendent Action:

Hypothetical Transcend for Hurl at the Horizon wrote:


Transcend: The Sky Answered [one action] Requirement: Your most recent action was a strike with a Thrown weapon. Effect: Providence united you with your weapon once, and continues to do so. Make a Thrown Weapon Strike against the same target as the preceding strike as your weapon swiftly flies back to your open hand. If the previous strike was a miss, the target is Flat-Footed to this attack. (Could potentially add in that it doesn't count MAP if the previous strike was a miss due to flavoring it as part of the same attack, but probably too strong) Your weapon returns to you, and you may Interact to Ready the weapon or choose to let it fall to the ground in your space.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I will add this one:

Page 26-27. Fish from the Fall's Edge has got the following trigger: "A living creature within 30 feet would die." This includes yourself, but the whole text talks about "your ally". I think it would be better to have a more specific trigger, or to clearly state that you can't target yourself. Or that you can, if that's intended.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Megistone wrote:

I will add this one:

Page 26-27. Fish from the Fall's Edge has got the following trigger: "A living creature within 30 feet would die." This includes yourself, but the whole text talks about "your ally". I think it would be better to have a more specific trigger, or to clearly state that you can't target yourself. Or that you can, if that's intended.

Core Rulebook Pg 455 wrote:
Some effects target or require an ally, or otherwise refer to an ally. This must be someone on your side, often another PC, but it might be a bystander you are trying to protect. You are not your own ally. If it isn’t clear, the GM decides who counts as an ally or an enemy.

So no targeting yourself as written, but I do agree it probably could be clearer. Honestly, the fact that it says "living" at all feels unnecessarily exclusionary after Book of the Dead.


Falgaia wrote:
Falgaia wrote:
Hurl at the Horizon: Does the weapon return to your hand after being thrown? Asking since otherwise it is not possible for a Melee weapon without the Thrown trait initially to ever get Returning.

Okay so I thought of a solution to this problem- give the feat a Transcendent Action:

Hypothetical Transcend for Hurl at the Horizon wrote:


Transcend: The Sky Answered [one action] Requirement: Your most recent action was a strike with a Thrown weapon. Effect: Providence united you with your weapon once, and continues to do so. Make a Thrown Weapon Strike against the same target as the preceding strike as your weapon swiftly flies back to your open hand. If the previous strike was a miss, the target is Flat-Footed to this attack. (Could potentially add in that it doesn't count MAP if the previous strike was a miss due to flavoring it as part of the same attack, but probably too strong) Your weapon returns to you, and you may Interact to Ready the weapon or choose to let it fall to the ground in your space.

Paizo, please. PLEASE. Please? I want this so much.

Community / Forums / Archive / Pathfinder / War Of Immortals Playtest / Exemplar Class Discussion / A number of questions / rules-clarification requests for the Exemplar All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Exemplar Class Discussion