thatdamncat789's page

Yeah. Looking more into it that is fair. I thought the idea was thematic and flavorful but a lot of weapons I was thinking of on a more basic level aren't actually simple weapons. Maybe picking weapon groups you have access to or just 'you have proficiency with your ikon' or a customized weapon that you would build up from a template while leveling but I feel that would also over complicate the process.

Unfortunately yeah that idea wouldn't work! To the chopping block it goes.

Mostly during discussions with the players at the table the idea come from yeah "exemplar just kind of hits like a truck it is comedic how they out paced the other martials."

I want them to feel really cool (look at #3 for what I mean) but I don't want them to invalidate other classes at the table. But someone more math oriented will need to figure out those ratios!

Simple weapons only would feel bad for anyone who wants to use any other weapon.

... In fact, all the examples of cool weapons the OP brings up (dogslicer, shortbow, clan pistol) are all martial anyways.

Oh snap I didn't notice that just about all bows are martial weapons. It is crossbows and such that are simple. I'd probably solve that by giving access via a ranged oriented option or giving them specific bow access.

The Clan pistol and dogslicer examples were meant to be in related to increasing the value of ancestry weapon proficiency feats for exemplars. You are the exemplar of your ancestry and thus would take the associated feat to break out of the simple weapons. My apologies for not being clear there!

I do see your point though as it is a small category. Though the key idea of it is that they would take these simple weapons and make them incredible! A longspear is d6 and reach. When you pick it up it becomes a d6 with reach, and can be thrown, and has an innate returning property, and and and. The idea being once it is in your hands it would explode with traits.

TBT I feel Apparitions being able to incarnate (before Avatar) would steal too much of the Summoner's theme.

Actually I think it might be able to work like Stalker in Darkened Boughs if you gave them things closer to animal forms to shapeshift into on a particular tree. As from my experience with the game you hear about slime form because of crit immunity and general druid shapeshifting. What about abberant form? Or Slime? Or Elemental? Maybe along with avatar they could have a lesser form the animist could incarnate into?

So I just had a play session with an exemplar and spent a few hours talking about it. Exemplar is really cool! Things that came up in the following discussion that have helped mold my opinion of exemplar.

1. (According to my mathy friend this argument is less mine) they perform above curve compared to other martials of similar role (I think they did the math in comparison to barb) so something to bring their DPR more in line with other martials. I'm not exactly sure how to do this as I'm not a math wizard.

2. My thought is give exemplar a focus on simple weapons and give them medium armor. This prevents the sentinel feat tax for exemplars not wanting to use dex.

But why simple weapons only? Now they wouldn't be trapped in simple but I think the idea of a weapon with a divine nature that only they can bring out really sells it. Feats let you have twinned weapons, give them the thrown trait (or improve it), and I think it would be cool if exemplar leaned into that with more feats giving their simple weapons features that only they can bring out along with crazy abilities to go with it!
On top of this it gives an emphasis to ancestry weapon feats. You are THE goblin exemplar with the MYTHICAL DOGSLICER or a Dwarf with your divine sparked clan gun. Or this unassuming shortbow which can actually fire up to 300 feet in its first range or something crazy like that! I think this restriction would add to the fantasy of a godly weapon that only you can use to its full power.

3. Less numbers more cool shit. When I saw the exemplar hitting for big numbers it was cool. But I think it is cooler to get to do unique and interesting things. Smash the battlefield so that there is difficult terrain, being able to scoop up all your fellow martials with your titan bracers and carry them into battle! Being able to hold a person down because only you can pick up your weapon. Along with things you get later like the Teacher of Heroes which leans on a more int/wisdom skill character (unless you want to only identify like planar creatures). Along with features they get that give free feints or domain spells that pull from charisma.
I think reasons to take these and support these routes and an emphasis on cool divine feeling stuff vs numbers.

Love to hear your own experiences with exemplar. Also want to know what y'all think and how you've been feeling about exemplar on your own ends!

Thematically I don't think it is the best idea. One Familiars are even more book keeping for this class to consider and I don't know what unique features they'd bring to the table.
Taking the familiar idea and running in a different direction. I do like the idea of them potentially having a summoning branch though focusing on summon spells. Much like the avatar forms later the spirits you control being able to take on a physical form thanks to their connection with you for a while based on what kind of spirit they are?

I disagree with letting the Lores scale with wisdom. I get the instinct but consider when it comes to Lore knowledge checks and DCs that they are lower than the general skills effectively canceling out the lost int. Along with if you're that concerned consider due to the access to medium armor you simply don't need to invest in dex as much as other spellcasters do. This allows you to invest more into intelligence to empower those lores. Not to mention as you level these lores auto scale meaning you don't need to invest skill boosts into them.

This is a little outside the playtest but something that crossed my mind as with all classes Animist will certainly get an Archetype. My question is how will its unique features manifest?

Given Basic Spellcasting gives only one spell slot per level. Would it have two one for the Animist Casting and one for the Apparition Casting? I think that would be a bit OP given that would mean this archetype would dip into more spells than any of the others.

Personally I think I'd like it to only be the apparition spellcasting as it would be pretty interesting. Your spells would be limited but change per day and then allow feats later on that let you take advantage of learning lores or accessing their focus spell.

Just a thought as I think the class is really cool that I've already started wondering how to blend it with other classes!

One thing I'm mixed on with some of them (Teacher of Heroes and the ones that give demoralizes and feints) is that the exemplar has a heavy ability tax requiring you to get dexterity due to the fact you're in light armor without archetypes. So I wonder for certain fantasies where you're going to find the points to make these effective.

You'll need dex for AC, but if you wanted to go a strength - charisma build your points are spread thinner. The recall knowledge is in isolation so I don't understand the value in investing into intelligence or wisdom for those recall knowledges so late on compared to other classes who do this. I love the ideas for them! I want them to be improved and supported.

Yeah right now it seems like the idea is that you'd shift the spark into your weapon on your turn, transcend and then make sure it is in your worn or body defensive option for the turn ending. I do wonder if their passives should always on or some other alternative.

I do agree that we need an unarmed option though considering how these work I do think it is important that it is still classified as a weapon ikon. You can flavor it as a samson's hair type thing, but if you could double down in a category you would mess with the class's automatic progression. The Epithets apply to Body, Weapon, and Worn. So you'd still need a weapon ikon.

I think having a not die button with A Place Beyond Mortality is really good especially since once you're at that point you're dealing with incredibly dangerous and lethal encounters, it is a feat that requires you to die yes but it is also the kind of feat you want on hand when your 20th level party goes to have a showdown with Treerazer.
Cutting Without Blade is incredibly flavorful I do love it, but it also doesn't feel useful at 20th level who is going to lose all their gear suddenly? It kind of feels like the Witch's hut, super flavorful but not super useful. If it came with an extra spark or an extra transference or transend that'd be super nice.

It does stand out to me with the playtest there isn't away to get multiple sparks, trasends or shifts.

Is this the same case for Ikon feats? Since a lot of them are defined by type, if I have two weapon ikons and they both do slashing can I use Motionless Cutter with both?

Also additional question with some abilities (like Motionless Cutter) if the weapon is versatile can I use the other damage type or must I specifically use Slashing?

I understand but also disagree as some of the other ikons that aren't weapons offer great utility and they can give some key passives you'll want when it isn't your turn. I do think maybe giving some reactions so they could be used off your turn would be interesting though!

It feels like the two should work because otherwise the only other way to get this feat is to invest in the 8th level feat to get an extra ikon and picking weapon.

I do think the spellcasting is complicated but not just because of is a prepared and spontaneous. That is a bit heavier on the book keeping end so it could be troublesome for some at the table but in a VTT like foundry this is easy.

The things that stand out are for the spontaneous end your spirits can be dispersed removing their spells for a while and on top of this you have focus point casting but only with your primary spirit so that is another thing you need to keep track of with the spontaneous spellcasting on this class.

Along with the ability to freely change up your spirits from day to day, though a player can always settle on their preferred favorites that can be another factor to consider. Adding on to that are the wandering feats which you can replace daily too with another wandering feat incase your change of spirits renders a feat invalid!

I do love this class reading it and I'm curious how it'll feel with some actual play!

I was worried in the other direction a little. The class seems to want to allow for strength oriented characters and dexterity ones, but you have to invest into dexterity at least a bit because you can't wear medium armor. Comparing this to say the thaumaturge where I can play a charisma-strength oriented one because I can slap breastplate on and only get a -1 to my AC.

Since domain spells use charisma, unless I'm only using utility and healing ones that starts to feel like I'm spreading my stats around a lot? Strength for damage and hitting (depending on the weapon), dexterity for AC and potentially the weapon of choice, you'll want more con to cope with being easier to hit since a crit might shred you? Then charisma for the feint oriented cunning exemplar and your domain spell powers.

Page 26. Binding Serpents Celestial Arrow: It says "the arrow" transforms and immobilizes the target. But it also indicates you can use this with thrown weapons. So if used with a thrown weapon I'm assuming it must not return to your hand in order to immobilize the creature...

On this one in particular a thing that stood out is it said 'Strike' while including weapons with the thrown trait. I think this should be clarified to ranged attack? With how it currently is if something has the thrown trait because it uses the word strike it means you can just stab them and immobilize them if it was a dagger, correct?

Also a clarification I'd like is do ikon feats that add features (such as the one that gives your ikon weapon thrown!!!) allow you to qualify for future ones?

Another clarification I'd personally like is how many of your ikon feats and abilities do they apply to? If I have 2 ikon weapons thanks to the 8th level feat and they both meet the requirements can I use Binding Serpents Celestial Arrow with both of them or is this put on only the specific ikon?

Personally I'm sad to see that stamina points are gone, or at least don't seem to be mentioned in the pdf that I can see. I really like the stamina/hit point system and it's something that helps Starfinder to stand out.

For what comfort it is, isn't there a stamina variant rule in Pathfinder 2e through the GMG? Not sure how different they are from each other but if they're compatible that would make them applicable right?

Linking a thread from the Advice forum: https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43om3?New-Player-Druid-Build-Suggestions

Short Version: Can a Wild Order Druid PC fit into this campaign? From what little I know about this AP, the 'Becoming fully domesticated by the temptations of civilization is anathema to your order. (This doesn’t prevent you from buying and using processed goods or staying in a city for an adventure, but you can never come to rely on these conveniences or truly call such a place your permanent home.)' order anathema seems like it would be a significant issue with a 'building/expanding a kingdom' theme.

I think it would work perfectly well especially as a spiritual advisor to the ruler of the nation. On the throne? That would be a little bit harder to work with, but I can imagine as a member of kingdom's council no problem. Just between helping and advising your character probably has a home outside the city proper as they live off the land and in nature when the nation has no immediate need of them.

Yeah! It works for some classes but it does limit the space of how a class can be expressed. Which is understandable not everything can do everything but in this case it feels like it is limiting to limit it. At least from the little combats I've done with friends.
I think it would be awesome for Kineticists to be able to gather element into a great sword which can be used as the focus for their powers. Or dual wield to light blades of different energy (or even the same) really flesh out the idea.

Because I think otherwise with their 'infinite resources' and how their abilities are action economy based and the stats they lean on, they are a pretty interesting blend of being able to be a marital and pseudo caster.

So Kineticist martial growth rate is kind of strange. I've only been able to experiment in little combats and not take part in full campaigns for them (lacking time and friends). But those two levels their elementals blasts trail behind every other weapon feel kind of arbitrary. I think giving them the level 5 expert isn't going to be a big deal.

But onto the point of something I would like to see expanded in a full kineticist. A more martial expression of them following the elemental weapon feat. Imagine being able to dual wield elemental short swords or 2-handing a fire forged battle axe?

It just stands out to me that the Elemental Weapon feat is just kind of there. It also has to compete with Flexible Blasts which will be of higher value to any other kineticist, I do think picking giving your elements Flexible or Brutal should probably just be a natural feature of them. Back to Elemental Weapon though it basically gives access to one (one handed) martial weapon to your Kineticist and that is cool! I think it could use some more fleshing out though.