Is this a joke?
Resis equal to your level is OK.But it's only one type and couldn't be changed.
OK,but where could you find enemy who will deal damage exact that type and so low it's will be reduced to 0?
And even if this will happen enemy will gain -2 to attack rolls until BEGINNING of their next turn. So it will work in best case scenario to the second and third attack which already have big chance to miss. And you don't really care about it because damage of this attacks very low.
Why not all physical damage or at least make it changeable? Why not until end of enemy's next turn? Is it will be too OP?
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Ra-Amon wrote: Is this a joke? Not the best opening to encourage people to pay attention to your feedback.
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I get what it's going for thematically.
I would also note that it means they'll be off-guard (i.e. flat-footed) to your whole party for a full round without a save, and the fact that it triggers on a miss means if they do multiple strikes at you there's a really good chance of it applying. That's the real strength of this I feel, though I think it might still be a little narrow with just one physical damage type applying? (I think, offhand, P>S>B for how common the types are in enemy stat blocks, roughly, but)
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Evilgm wrote: Ra-Amon wrote: Is this a joke? Not the best opening to encourage people to pay attention to your feedback. I'm sorry but after ROE I thought that Paizo found a right way to make something cool. But there is classic Paizo design again. We already have a lot of feats/spells which are just meh and there is more of them. I just want to know why they do something like this every time? Is it so scary to make something too good?
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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
A reminder that playtest stuff often is a bit on reserved side because it is easier to strengthen something then it is to dial it back. Even the rage of elements playtest had weak points that were upgraded in the final version.
Ana again "classic paizo design" isnt really constructive criticism.
Gonna do some QUICK MATHS
Going to do some rough average damage breakdowns at the Striker level thresholds, against even-levelled monsters at base comparison. This is specifically focusing on the "Reduce to 0" trigger, rather than the "missed" trigger.
Level comparisons:
Level 1: Moderate monster damage is 1d6+2. Our Resistance is 1. Odds of Crash reducing damage to 0, 0%. To potentially trigger this effect, you'd need to fight a -1 level monster, and you'd have a 25% chance of reducing damage to 0. Any higher is 0%.
Level 5: Moderate monster damage is 2d6+6. Our resistance is 5. Odds of Crash reducing damage to 0, 0%. To potentially trigger this effect, vs. a level 1 monster would be 66%, level 2 would only be 12.5%. Any higher it's 0%
Level 12: Moderate monster damage is 3d8+12. Our Resistance is 12. Odds of Crash reducing damage to 0, 0%. To potentially trigger this effect, vs. a level 8 monster would be 4.68%. Any higher is 0%.
Level 19: Moderate monster damage is 4d8+17. Our Resistance is 19. Odds of Crash reducing damage to 0, 0%. To potentially trigger this effect, vs. a level 15 monster would be 1%. Level 16 would be .4%. Level 17 would be .1%. Any higher is 0%.
In short: at essentially every level, the only chance you have of triggering the "reduced to 0" threshold is only if you're fighting something significantly lower than you, and even then the odds are incredibly slim, growing more and more slim the higher level you go.
Honestly, I'd much prefer they remove the "if you reduce it to 0" aspect entirely and just leave the "if the opponent misses", because of how slim a chance it has to occur. That, or change the math on how much the resistance grants you. Even making it like 5+Level would increase the odds to a meaningful but not overwhelming amount.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
FlySkyHigh wrote: Gonna do some QUICK MATHS
Honestly, I'd much prefer they remove the "if you reduce it to 0" aspect entirely and just leave the "if the opponent misses", because of how slim a chance it has to occur. That, or change the math on how much the resistance grants you. Even making it like 5+Level would increase the odds to a meaningful but not overwhelming amount.
I agree. The resistance portion needs a nudge higher somewhere.
I agree, and had also noted this as one of the weaker ikons.
Honestly most of the body ikons just seem not great.
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MEATSHED wrote: Honestly most of the body ikons just seem not great. I disagree here. I think this is the only one that's really underwhelming.
Eye-Catching Spot has a constant bonus to your melee AC, which is respectable (and circumstance penalties to attacks are very rare - it's going to stack with everything). The active is iffy, because fascinated is horrible, but they might be changing it a bit in the remaster.
Gaze Sharp As Steel can be maintained outside of combat for a functional initiative bonus, and the active grants you Reactive Strike until your next turn. If I'm reading this right, your spark immediately moves though, meaning you can have your Weapon Ikon (or maybe Victor's Wreath) active for that Reactive Strike. Also, +2 AC against ranged attacks isn't bad, especially if you're starting combat with it.
Scar of the Survivor is mostly an amazing active for your third action - you can self-heal constantly with this and it'll make you very good at not dying.
Another important thing though is interactions with epithets. If I use No Scar but This at the start of my turn and I have the Cunning epithet, that also gives me a free Feint, and I move my spark into my weapon to make use of it. Brave adds free movement to all these active abilities (less useful on Spot due to 2-action cost).
However, for Skin Hard as Iron? Take Mournful and automatically inflict Dazzled on the person you're fighting when you use Crash against Me, which adds a flat 20% chance that their strikes miss. Which makes them off-guard for a counter on your next turn (and did you move your spark to your weapon, perhaps? Or maybe to Palisade Bangles to boost AC and further increase the odds?)
I still think Skin needs a bit of help, but I also think it has potential, it just needs some minor touches (Thematically... I almost feel like it should get to pick two physical damage types?)
Dubious Scholar wrote: MEATSHED wrote: Honestly most of the body ikons just seem not great. I disagree here. I think this is the only one that's really underwhelming.
Eye-Catching Spot has a constant bonus to your melee AC, which is respectable (and circumstance penalties to attacks are very rare - it's going to stack with everything). The active is iffy, because fascinated is horrible, but they might be changing it a bit in the remaster.
Gaze Sharp As Steel can be maintained outside of combat for a functional initiative bonus, and the active grants you Reactive Strike until your next turn. If I'm reading this right, your spark immediately moves though, meaning you can have your Weapon Ikon (or maybe Victor's Wreath) active for that Reactive Strike. Also, +2 AC against ranged attacks isn't bad, especially if you're starting combat with it.
Scar of the Survivor is mostly an amazing active for your third action - you can self-heal constantly with this and it'll make you very good at not dying.
Another important thing though is interactions with epithets. If I use No Scar but This at the start of my turn and I have the Cunning epithet, that also gives me a free Feint, and I move my spark into my weapon to make use of it. Brave adds free movement to all these active abilities (less useful on Spot due to 2-action cost).
However, for Skin Hard as Iron? Take Mournful and automatically inflict Dazzled on the person you're fighting when you use Crash against Me, which adds a flat 20% chance that their strikes miss. Which makes them off-guard for a counter on your next turn (and did you move your spark to your weapon, perhaps? Or maybe to Palisade Bangles to boost AC and further increase the odds?)
I still think Skin needs a bit of help, but I also think it has potential, it just needs some minor touches (Thematically... I almost feel like it should get to pick two physical damage types?) Eye catching's fascinate is actually upgraded, only applying when you do hostule actions against the target specifically
After talking over this body ikon with some of my regular players, the general consensus is that it feels drastically underwhelming. The convergence of a) needing a specific damage type to be being used, b) to have that damage type be totally nullified or c) for the person to miss while attempting to deal that damage type all while d) the resistance value makes b essentially a non-factor...
In my mind this ikon needs either a fairly significant buff, either in the flat resistance value, maybe making the damage value = to level at base with a larger number when transcending, or by widening the amount of applicable damage types, and just removing the "if you reduce it to 0" element since it'd rarely if ever trigger.
What it you are teaming with a good champion? If their reaction stacks, that could be a nice combo.
Unfortunately as both would be applying Resistance to a single source of damage they don't stack, you just apply the higher one (which at 2+Champion's Level would be the Champion's Reaction). That said, if the 2+Champion's Level is enough to negate, since the Reaction explicitly gave you Resistance, that should still meet the "your resistance would be enough to reduce the damage dealt to 0" clause, but that's still not particularly likely.
Well, champion reaction is resist all damage, I've seen that reduce to 0 plenty against enemies who are doing like, piercing+fire+evil damage mixed. But that's a specific edge case at that point (and more a way champion reactions are great than anything about the ikon)
If you use Shield Block to prevent some of the damage, the remaining damage might be reduced to 0. I believe that would trigger the effect, correct?
although as written the "resist to 0" will very rarely happen, it still is good just for the "missing" part and the added resistance.
I honestly can't help but wonder if crash against me wouldn't be well served by just expanding the resistance to all types of physical damage. The immanence is honestly fine; many enemies have multiple damage types, but it's often like a big hit with jaws and weaker hit with claws, or something similar, so like, even if you aren't applying your resistance because the monster is avoiding your resistance, it's still using a weaker hit, which means you take less damage anyway. That said,
This doesn't work well when you transcend since the doubled resistance doesn't do any benefit than the base one, AND you spent an action on it, when you could have just, say, raised a shield
I think that thematically the skin should be all 3 bludgeoning, piercing and slashing. Even if it means they have to add it gradually put it in or add a feat for it.
I think extract vow of nonviolence has a similar issue to crash against me and also needs a buff. Vow of non violence could also act as a disarm and give a status penalty to damage as the weapon is frightened. Two actions for what would essentially be the two actions of disarm and demoralize with a charisma flavor and possibly a lower dc.
Disarm could also work for crash against me. If a critical miss while you have transcendence causes an enemy to drop a weapon, making those 3rd attacks with the -10 penalty very risky, potentially a -12 with the other effect of crash against me.
One thing not mentioned here is that although the damage reduction applies to all damage of the chosen type, the on-miss ability only applies to weapon attacks, making it useless against unarmed attacks.
I'm still playing a playtest Exemplar in a Kingmaker campaign and chose bludgeoning as it seemed the most thematic for the character. I never used the Transcend ability until I had my Root Epithet, and even now I only use it for the healing. It's just such a narrow, worthless ability on its own.
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