I don't think general feats should give you scaling proficiency. I do think there should be an archetype for something like "weapon master" that lets you peg an advanced weapon to your martial proficiency.
Like we have a few of those (the Aldori one, Drow Shootist, etc.) but it's probably not possible for a bespoke option for every interesting advanced weapon but a general one would suffice.
Mine need one feat for each proficiency tier. It's costly, but you are also not spending class feats, and from my experience, my players kinda don't know what they want to do with their gen feats except getting toughness, canny acumen, and occasionally ancestral paragon, so many times, the cost would be noted as being steep, but not percievably burdensome (the fools! Keen Follower is also a great general feat!)
As it stands now, especially with what we've seen in TV, advanced are direct upgrades power wise compared to martial.
That might be the case for a few of the new weapons, but most weapon types barely get an upgrade RN by going advanced.
Bows have the Hongali Hornbow, which is good for builds that cannot fit Point-Blank Shot or mounted builds and worse than the composite longbow for anything else.
Crossbows have the Taw Launcher, which is undoubtly a direct upgrade. It is still worse than a martial bow, though.
Reach barely gets an upgrade at all. The Broadspear is cool, but were it a martial weapon, I would be fine with it. The nerfed Flickmace is still good for being one-handed, but it is not that big of an upgrade RN for most builds. From TV, the Nodachi seems fine and the Dorn-Dergar looks like a really good Fighter weapon, but nothing looks like an obvious improvement over what martial already had.
2-handed d12 gets the Butchering Axe, which is a tiny bit better than the Greataxe. Still worse than the Maul most of the time.
Guns have almost nothing at all. Now they are going to have the Barricade Buster, but it requires Point-Blank shot to function between the volley and the low range.
1 handed crit fishing gets the Tricky Pick I guess. I find modular to be more relevant than Backstabber tbh. Oh, also the Kalis. That one is pretty good, but sadly it is going to be outclassed by the Falcata.
In general, I think only the Finesse options get a real upgrade RN. The Aldori Dueling Sword, the Karambit and the Sawtooth Sabers are all pretty sweet.
Some AP weapons are indeed strong, though. That I'm willing to admit.
NGL, besides the Falcata (which should probably be just Fatal d10), the Barricade Buster and the finesse options, I don't think there is that much of a difference between martial and advanced in most cases. Sure, they are an upgrade (sometimes), but it is usually a minor upgrade.
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point blank are so much worse than other archer stance
keep using volley bow in mid to late game seems like a obvious disadvantage
Point-Blank Shot can be picked by all the classes interested in ranged combat, not only fighter (I understand that you were referencing Multishot Stance).
Multishot also breaks if you move, which is pretty bad. Some GMs might allow you to use it and not break while moving with a mount, but I wouldn't count on it.
point blank are so much worse than other archer stance
keep using volley bow in mid to late game seems like a obvious disadvantage
Point-Blank Shot can be picked by all the classes interested in ranged combat, not only fighter (I understand that you were referencing Multishot Stance).
Multishot also breaks if you move, which is pretty bad. Some GMs might allow you to use it and not break while moving with a mount, but I wouldn't count on it.
Multishot breaks if you are on a mount, it's not the fact that you use a move action that breaks it but the fact that you move from your position, and you definitely move from your position when your mount moves.
point blank are so much worse than other archer stance
keep using volley bow in mid to late game seems like a obvious disadvantage
Even if it does more damage than Point Blank Shot (10-15% more damage) it asks for 3 feats, considering that the 2 first ones are useless and it forces you to stay static. And Point Blank Shot is ideal with a Longbow so you also have range advantage. Overall, Multishot Stance is not massively better than Point Blank Shot.
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point blank are so much worse than other archer stance
keep using volley bow in mid to late game seems like a obvious disadvantage
Point-Blank Shot can be picked by all the classes interested in ranged combat, not only fighter (I understand that you were referencing Multishot Stance).
Multishot also breaks if you move, which is pretty bad. Some GMs might allow you to use it and not break while moving with a mount, but I wouldn't count on it.
like mobile shot the most but other ranged weapon also benefit from that stance a lot
was very weird only archer archetype get it and gunslinger only get feat like sword and pistol and disruptive blur
I really don't like Mobile Shot Stance, simply because it only seems to offer a solution. AoOs with ranged weapons are pretty meh, but the "no AoO for ranged attacks" part is a genuine trap. Because guess what also triggers those? Reloading as either part of the attack or as a separate action. You can't afford that either, so the benefit is marginal at best.
Multishot breaks if you are on a mount, it's not the fact that you use a move action that breaks it but the fact that you move from your position, and you definitely move from your position when your mount moves.
The intention is clear to me, but the phrasing is vague enough that I can see a particularly permisive GM allowing it.
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The intention is clear to me, but the phrasing is vague enough that I can see a particularly permisive GM allowing it.Multishot breaks if you are on a mount, it's not the fact that you use a move action that breaks it but the fact that you move from your position, and you definitely move from your position when your mount moves.
"If you move from your position, this stance ends."
I find it crystal clear. But, anyway, permissive GMs gonna permit.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Look SuperBidi, I've been scarred by this hobby. It could say that you lose the effect if you stop being in the square you originally took the action and I would have people argue that you can fly with it straight upwards.
Look SuperBidi, I've been scarred by this hobby. It could say that you lose the effect if you stop being in the square you originally took the action and I would have people argue that you can fly with it straight upwards.
I understand. I've seen this kind of behavior, there are some players who always try to salvage undue advantages everywhere possible. I even got a player who straight up refused to follow the character creation rules I gave and added an item I specifically refused to his inventory...
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The intention is clear to me, but the phrasing is vague enough that I can see a particularly permisive GM allowing it.Multishot breaks if you are on a mount, it's not the fact that you use a move action that breaks it but the fact that you move from your position, and you definitely move from your position when your mount moves.
"If you move from your position, this stance ends."
I find it crystal clear. But, anyway, permissive GMs gonna permit.
But your position of "on the horse" has not changed. Or do also tell your players that the stance breaks while fighting on the deck of a ship, or because Golarion moves through space?
;P
Btw, is the nodachi looking like a sort of makeshift d12 reach weapon to anyone else? In the hands of a fighter (or stupid Tyrant build) at least.
I'll have to see how it plays out, because I've always wanted a sword with reach. It was always a little funny how the greatsword doesn't have it, at least without considering balance.
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Or do also tell your players that the stance breaks while fighting on the deck of a ship, or because Golarion moves through space?
;P
Golarion is flat and the Sun orbits around it.
Prove me otherwise!
Btw, is the nodachi looking like a sort of makeshift d12 reach weapon to anyone else? In the hands of a fighter (or stupid Tyrant build) at least.
I'll have to see how it plays out, because I've always wanted a sword with reach. It was always a little funny how the greatsword doesn't have it, at least without considering balance.
Not really, deadly d12 isn't that good. I ran the numbers, in the hands of a fighter it is about equivalent to a d10 weapon at lvls 1-3. Once you get striking it falls behind, never does d10 damage.
So, it is really only good if you REALLY value bracing. Since compared to a Guisarme which is martial, d10 (more damage) and has trip.
So for an advanced weapon you lose trip, get lower damage (even in a fighters hands) and gain brace. So you really need to value brace a LOT.
Pity, I was hoping for a d10 reach sweep martial nodachi, but maybe some playstyles can make good use of brace, in which case more power to them!
Probably should have just been martial though.
Hm, too bad. Thanks, I'll trust you on that, since the best I can do is a super basic analysis of average damage ^^.
But yeah, seems like it goes on the huge pile of "meh" weapons. There's no way I'll ever get enough use out of Brace to justify getting the proficiency.
Ye do remember that striking increases deadly dice as well?It does scale but not at the rate of striking dice. You only get a second deadly die at 10th level
12th, but that isn't improving things ^^
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But your position of "on the horse" has not changed. Or do also tell your players that the stance breaks while fighting on the deck of a ship, or because Golarion moves through space?
Inertial reference frames! I will bring Special Relativity into this if I have to, but I fear it might take too long to cultivate familiarity with hyperbolic geometry for players.
... People live on both the Moon and the Sun in that setting, after all.
And Mars... erm... Akiton.
Look SuperBidi, I've been scarred by this hobby. It could say that you lose the effect if you stop being in the square you originally took the action and I would have people argue that you can fly with it straight upwards.I understand. I've seen this kind of behavior, there are some players who always try to salvage undue advantages everywhere possible. I even got a player who straight up refused to follow the character creation rules I gave and added an item I specifically refused to his inventory...
Yeesh, nothing grinds my (guns and)gears more than players who try and pull stuff like that.
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Also, (sadly I exceeded the site's backtracking limit by the time I thought of it), I personally think more of the Martial Classes, potentially all of them, should have the advanced weapon feat that fighter gets-- Fighter is still better with them due to proficiency and that level 6 slot is already plenty competitive enough to make it not a must take.
I think it's ok for the advanced weapons to be something you level into rather than something you start with (even considering that certain ancestry configurations can just start with them-- I think that's fine.)
For me, the consequence is that I'd use a Katana/Naginata for a while before switching to a Nodachi (depending on the exact reason I want to switch the Nodachi), or use a Longsword for a while before switching to a Falcata or something.
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Or do also tell your players that the stance breaks while fighting on the deck of a ship, or because Golarion moves through space?
;P
Golarion is flat and the Sun orbits around it.
Prove me otherwise!
Nah, someone turns the sun on and off, obviously,
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That doesn't actually do anything, as rouges aren't trained in martial weapons. They should, but they currently don't.
rogue feat make one advance weapon with agile or finesse trait martial
That really does need fixing, there are plenty of weapons that theoretically should have been on that list if they existed when the CRB came out.
I would even take a level 1 feat tax at this point.
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If only Monk had a way of picking a specific weapon and saying "this is a Monk weapon now." Then I could stick a nodachi on a STR Monk with Mountain and Wild Winds stance and viola, Vergil from DMC!
Also, we got dakka now for the gren boyz? YAY!
Is there a compiled list of leaks yet, like on reddit or something? I WANT TO READ THE THINGS BEFORE I PICK UP MY PREORDER, FOR ADDED HYPE!!!
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If only Monk had a way of picking a specific weapon and saying "this is a Monk weapon now." Then I could stick a nodachi on a STR Monk with Mountain and Wild Winds stance and viola, Vergil from DMC!
I miss that monk+cleric multiclass-specific feat from 1e that let you consider your deity's favored weapon a monk weapon...
If only Monk had a way of picking a specific weapon and saying "this is a Monk weapon now." Then I could stick a nodachi on a STR Monk with Mountain and Wild Winds stance and viola, Vergil from DMC!
Also, we got dakka now for the gren boyz? YAY!
Is there a compiled list of leaks yet, like on reddit or something? I WANT TO READ THE THINGS BEFORE I PICK UP MY PREORDER, FOR ADDED HYPE!!!
You can play a monk with weapon training and tengu weapon familiarity to use the Nodachi (due to the way the weapon is written, you jump from advanced to simple proficiency). Limited to Tengu sadly unless the GM makes Tengu common in the setting (could be selected for Adopted Ancestry). You also need Ancestral Weaponry, so it is quite a long way to make it functional.
Sadly, it also feels a bit unintentional.
If only Monk had a way of picking a specific weapon and saying "this is a Monk weapon now." Then I could stick a nodachi on a STR Monk with Mountain and Wild Winds stance and viola, Vergil from DMC!
Also, we got dakka now for the gren boyz? YAY!
Is there a compiled list of leaks yet, like on reddit or something? I WANT TO READ THE THINGS BEFORE I PICK UP MY PREORDER, FOR ADDED HYPE!!!
You can play a monk with weapon training and tengu weapon familiarity to use the Nodachi (due to the way the weapon is written, you jump from advanced to simple proficiency). Limited to Tengu sadly unless the GM makes Tengu common in the setting (could be selected for Adopted Ancestry). You also need Ancestral Weaponry, so it is quite a long way to make it functional.
Sadly, it also feels a bit unintentional.
I don't think Ancestral Weaponry works in this case: the weapon needs the ancestry trait (which these swords do not have despite being granted), and the weapon needs to be finesse or agile (which the nodachi is neither).
I don't think Ancestral Weaponry works in this case: the weapon needs the ancestry trait (which these swords do not have despite being granted), and the weapon needs to be finesse or agile (which the nodachi is neither).If only Monk had a way of picking a specific weapon and saying "this is a Monk weapon now." Then I could stick a nodachi on a STR Monk with Mountain and Wild Winds stance and viola, Vergil from DMC!
Also, we got dakka now for the gren boyz? YAY!
Is there a compiled list of leaks yet, like on reddit or something? I WANT TO READ THE THINGS BEFORE I PICK UP MY PREORDER, FOR ADDED HYPE!!!
You can play a monk with weapon training and tengu weapon familiarity to use the Nodachi (due to the way the weapon is written, you jump from advanced to simple proficiency). Limited to Tengu sadly unless the GM makes Tengu common in the setting (could be selected for Adopted Ancestry). You also need Ancestral Weaponry, so it is quite a long way to make it functional.
Sadly, it also feels a bit unintentional.
True, I forgot it only worked with agile or finesse stuff, mb.
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nodachi should be d10 with reach and deadly d10
too late to fix it now
Honestly I think that's too good. The point of comparison for an Advanced Reach weapon should be the Broad Spear, which is d10, reach, Sweep, and Versatile(P). D10, Reach, Brace, and Deadly D10 is *much* better than that.
I think the Nodachi is fine for what it is, there's no need to obviate basically all polearms since swords are "cooler."
Gotta say, that explanation got real confusing for a short bit there before I registered that "fatal" and "deadly" were not the same thing.