Treasure vault sneak peaks.


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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ditch brace it was a pretty bad trait anyway

naginata is d8 reach versatile deadly d8

if nodachi get d10 reach deadly d10 it would means trade advance and versatile for a dice increase

doesn't seems too overpowered


For something with the new trait, it's probably fine. I'd probably just prefer it to be a d10 with brace. A little boring but more reliable. Brace is high budget it seems. Maybe we'll find good use out of it.


Plus, reach weapons in general don't have a lot of good critical boosting options. Naginata does have the best crits for a reach weapon so there's that.


Is the boomerang too good? Compared to the chakram and its d8, is triple the range a fair trade? It's got a whole new niche next to pistols with the range it has. Eclipses every other thrown weapon it seems other than the fact you can't melee with it.


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aobst128 wrote:
Is the boomerang too good? Compared to the chakram and its d8, is triple the range a fair trade? It's got a whole new niche next to pistols with the range it has. Eclipses every other thrown weapon it seems other than the fact you can't melee with it.

we needed a good martial thrown weapon thought.

i'm kinda tired of throwing javelins which are simple weapons even though i have martial proficiency.


25speedforseaweedleshy wrote:
ditch brace it was a pretty bad trait anyway

Considering the historical use for the especially large Japanese swords was "as an anti-cavalry weapon" (to cut down the horse before it gets to you) Brace was the trait that was always going to be on the weapon.

You could trade Reach for a die size increase though.

But unlike an actual polearm or spear, "giant sword" isn't really a weapon you advance with since it's much harder to keep the business end oriented so you can use it easily to attack.


I'm happy that we get new advanced weapons with an actual decent power level. I actually suggested something very familiar to the falcata, so there would be a DPS rival to the flickmaces control dominance.

Fatal d12 might be a tad much, and it favors the fighter a fair bit. Wouldn't mind just seeing a d10 1h advanced weapon at some point.

The phalanx piecer got gutted it seems, reload 1 now. But before it was to strong I guess.

Barricade buster is awesome, i wanna make a build around that bad boy. Dorn de-degar is my jam. My dwarf fighter actually uses a meteor hammer flavored exactly like the depiction, so yay me.

I'm not sure razing and brace are priced right tho. Bec De Corbin just seems.. eh to me ?

We'll see how those traits hold up in play. But if they are as lackluster as they seem, alot of the TV weapons are meh for me


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I appreciate the karambit reprint. Excellent offhand weapon for dex builds.


In general, finesse enjoyers are eating well with advanced weaponry


CaffeinatedNinja wrote:
Result is you would have a Falcata Deadly 12 Advanced. Highest damage 1h weapon but not by NEARLY as much as now.

I think it's a design choice. Non-Agile Non-Finesse 1-handed weapons are not really fantastic, especially since the nerf of the Flickmace (and it was also part of the success of the Flickmace, there was no other choice). They deal nearly the same damage than 1-handed Finesse weapons, and just one die step above excellent weapons like the Shortsword.

I feel that they will buff the Non-Agile Non-Finesse 1-handed weapons, but I may be wrong.


falcata doesn't feel overpowered

would always choose to use tricky pick instead


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

So we now have a special weapon for Redeemers to equal the Paladin's Holy Avenger. It isn't just a great weapon, but specifically helps the Redeemer do the specific job they've been tasked with. And it's even the exact same level as the Holy Avenger, which creates a nice little bit of game symmetry.

Do we have anything like that for Liberators yet or are we still waiting for one? Because when I saw the Redeemer weapon I assumed we'd also get a Liberator one, but nothing like that showed up in the previews of the book.

Radiant Oath

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Maybe they're saving that one for the Firebrands book, since that organization's one a lot of liberators would gravitate towards?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
SuperBidi wrote:
CaffeinatedNinja wrote:
Result is you would have a Falcata Deadly 12 Advanced. Highest damage 1h weapon but not by NEARLY as much as now.

I think it's a design choice. Non-Agile Non-Finesse 1-handed weapons are not really fantastic, especially since the nerf of the Flickmace (and it was also part of the success of the Flickmace, there was no other choice). They deal nearly the same damage than 1-handed Finesse weapons, and just one die step above excellent weapons like the Shortsword.

I feel that they will buff the Non-Agile Non-Finesse 1-handed weapons, but I may be wrong.

Huh? They get attack stat (str) to damage and a die bump.

Shortsword is always going to be outdamaged by a longsword for instance if you just have one weapon, it is a better offhander. Agile isn't that good for a mainhander.

Right now, Falcata is closing in on the damage of a greatsword. It isn't quite there, but it isn't far off either. For a 1 handed weapon.

Agile is only better than a 1 die higher non-agile weapon if you are making attacks at -10 MAP. Which you should rarely be doing. So it is good for an offhander for dual slice or dual weapon ranger.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Sorry for asking a question that has probably been asked before but is there a compilation post somewhere of all the currently released info for Treasure Vaults? I've checked both the forums here and the PF2E subreddit but I fear my search skills are letting me down...


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

The main info is in the most recent blog, the knoghts of last call preview and the nonat preview which constitue entire chapters of the book (and have me salivating for my sub to fire in a few days). We know small amounts of other stuff, like the "gardens" players can make that auto generate consumables.


Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
Maybe they're saving that one for the Firebrands book, since that organization's one a lot of liberators would gravitate towards?

I could easily see something like a flashy rapier being the Liberator-specific weapon. That would also cover all three physical damage types, which would be fun symmetry. (Yes I know the longsword is technically also piercing, shoosh.)

I'd love to see Bastard's Sting make a reappearance, but I highly doubt they'll do much evil-centric content outside an evil-centric book.


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Dancer's spear seems pretty awesome for dex builds. Staff acrobat gymnasts could have a hay day with one of those


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Can you whack somebody with your bow staff as a melee weapon while in Monastic Archer stance? The stance says "the only Strikes you can make are those using longbows, shortbows, or bows with the monk trait" and the bow staff is the latter, but the melee form is in the club group not the bow group, but the combination trait underlines that a combination weapon is one weapon with two uses.

I want to think the answer is "yes" but I am not sure.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:

Can you whack somebody with your bow staff as a melee weapon while in Monastic Archer stance? The stance says "the only Strikes you can make are those using longbows, shortbows, or bows with the monk trait" and the bow staff is the latter, but the melee form is in the club group not the bow group, but the combination trait underlines that a combination weapon is one weapon with two uses.

I want to think the answer is "yes" but I am not sure.

I think the convenience of the bow staff is that using the interact action to switch modes will disable your stance since you're not longer wielding a bow so you can wack away afterwards.


The bow staff being common is cool. I wonder how many will opt for it instead of a shortbow.

Dark Archive

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Can you whack somebody with your bow staff as a melee weapon while in Monastic Archer stance? The stance says "the only Strikes you can make are those using longbows, shortbows, or bows with the monk trait" and the bow staff is the latter, but the melee form is in the club group not the bow group, but the combination trait underlines that a combination weapon is one weapon with two uses.

I want to think the answer is "yes" but I am not sure.

Its a combination weapon, so to use it in melee you'll need to switch its mode.

When you switch it to melee mode, it moves from the bow to the club group. So you would no longer be able to make strikes with it while maintaining the stance.

Liberty's Edge

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Since the stance has a requirement of "You are unarmored and wielding a longbow, shortbow, or a bow with the monk trait," you'd immediately drop out of the stance when you switched to its melee configuration.


So I was theory crafting more builds with the new weapons yesterday and kept comparing the Sukgung to the Shortbow till I realized I was reading the Sukgung wrong for like a week. It doesn't actually have a new Deadly Aim trait, it has a Fatal Aim trait like the Jezail! Man how could I have been so silly.

Like yeah crossbows are usually balanced around more damage and range in exchange for reload, and the shortbow is a d6 with deadly d10 at 60ft of range, so I just instinctively read the Sukgung as a d8 weapon with deadly d12 at 200ft and...now that we've established I nat 1'd my perception check...

Why does a bow weapon have fatal? I admit I'm mildly salty but I literally was theory crafting Deadly Aim weapons last year and this was the perfect place to put it in and...yeah...Is this a numbers issue? Would Deadly d12 have broken the math that much? What about Deadly d10?


Yeah the sukgung is nice. All I can think of for it is a tiger stance drifter. Can easily handle long range then you switch modes and enter stance to juke with 10 foot steps.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
aobst128 wrote:
Yeah the sukgung is nice. All I can think of for it is a tiger stance drifter. Can easily handle long range then you switch modes and enter stance to juke with 10 foot steps.

Or make Ultimate Sniper!

Weapon-Innovation Inventor taking Advanced Rangefinder for the Breakthrough Modification, and Omnirange Stabilizers for the Revolutionary Modification while picking up Ranger dedication. That's a 410' range increment, effectively 820' against your hunted prey. That's before you dip into Ranger feats...


The Treasure Vault preview does make me wonder which bows count as crossbows for the gunslinger. Many look like crossbows - but (to my knowledge) it is not a separate weapon group - so hard to adjucate….


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Berhagen wrote:
The Treasure Vault preview does make me wonder which bows count as crossbows for the gunslinger. Many look like crossbows - but (to my knowledge) it is not a separate weapon group - so hard to adjucate….

Anything that says it's a crossbow in the description is a crossbow. The couple of reload 1 weapons that aren't crossbows are the phalanx piercer and one of the combination weapons.


Good to know - thanks. I admit I did not have the patience to look at all the descriptions (other than the table) in the video….. guess I’ll have to await the book.


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I am getting a little nervous with all these cool new advanced weapons. I hope we get some archetype support or another means of access and proficiency that isn't unconventional weaponry.

Dark Archive

More previews from the rules lawyer on consumables!

Here are the standouts:
- Life Boosting Oil (fast healing for 4 rounds, last for 8 hours but only starts when you take damage). Wish that mechanic was there for most of these consumables.

- Merciful Balm - for those annoying times you need to do non-lethal but don't have a weapon.

- Weapon-Weird Oil - lets fighters essentially swap melee weapon traits and lasts an hour (so could be a prebuff). Its pretty high level for a consumable, but could be cool for 'weak to axe' type tree creatures or getting some pretty cool mechanical combos:
x Use a unique item that isn't in your fighter weapon group
x Getting unique traits on weapon groups that don't have them (reach/deadly/fatal traits on hammers/flails)
x Getting better thrown weapon ranges or any thrown weapons available for ranged back-up off your weapon group (i.e., swords with no thrown weapon)

- Chain of stars - is a really cool visual and a way to get 4x0MAO attacks? It might be better on a finesse weapon user since its still dex to hit and you won't get a +2 or +3 rune on the shurikens. Really fun IMO.

- Grudge-stone - is a pretty funny talisman. Its hard to get +3 to +5 status damage (let alone for a minute), and no one wants to be critted, but say you're a two handing barbarian (not giant instinct since they get enlarge/+2 status damage), the crits will come and this is probably somewhat reliable to trigger. Barbarian dwarf talisman dabbler could be a funny meme build taking toughness/mountain stoutness/golem grafter for +3HP/Level by L9 who wants to get crit so he gets his damage buff. Only issue is talisman dabbler gives only half character level free talismans, so this only comes online at L14?

- Mortalis coin - would have saved 5-10 PCs that I know of. Being crit into the ground is a serious issue so making that only Dying 1 could easily be a life or death situation. For a L4 item, that thing will be useful for every and all boss fights until L20.

- Reflecting Shard looks like a fun option for sword and board martials to mitigate spells.

- Dragonscale Cameo - Great name, great effect, but L12 is too high for talisman dabbling. Something worth affixing vs. putting in the sale pile, but it'll get quickly replaced by the flying/soaring armour runes which are L13 and L14.

- Bola shot - could be a fun fighter or gunslinger option for tripping bosses from range and letting the melee's swarm in. I feel like they missed the boat on providing L4 or lower magical ammunition. Then the eldritch archer could use them with magic arrow. Hope some GMs let the L4 restriction ease a bit to include some fun < L10 options like this.

- Magnetic shot - this is almost like a consumable ranged power attack? That is really cool. Really scary on a 1D8/Fatal D12 weapon like the arquebus (like extra damage dice, fatal, and deadly?). This is one of those hero point situations to ensure you're tactical nuke hits.

Dragon throat scale - Psychic Unleashed elemental weakness triggering 3 action magic missiles? This is cool! Wish it was lower level.

Fearcracker - that is really cool. Mirror images isn't super great in PF2, but I think this makes it worthwhile again because you get a debuff from it. It needs to be used with a martial feat that has 'can't reduce frightened below 1' otherwise the debuff ends at the end of that enemies turn.

Poracha Fulu - This is solid. Persistent damage sucks and this is low level. As a talisman, it falls into the purview of a talisman dabbler.

Heartening Missive (butterfly) - Improve a failed diplomacy check to success? My face characters are going to have a booklet of these. Great for social challenges/campaigns. At 25 gp, every PFS character should be holding a few of these lol.

Potion patch - is a patch for potions lol. Great for dungeons so you can add spend 1 action 'drawing/drinking' you're own healing potions for mid combat healing or w/e other effects while having you're hands full.


Giant doesn't get the +2 status from enlarge.


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Guntermench wrote:
Giant doesn't get the +2 status from enlarge.

Yeah, Titan Mauler says "[I]ncrease your additional damage from Rage from 2 to 6" so it should work with additional status damage, as the additional damage from Rage is untyped.


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I like bola, magnetic, and imp ammunition for Investigator.

Since you can know if you'll hit/crit or not before activating them it can be a pretty powerful burst effects for those.

Same deal with Spellguns and Investigator: If you roll high on your stratagem use that, plus, if you have a spellcasting archetype which is common on investigators, you can always choose to still use them and try a spell attack roll even on a bad stratagem roll.

Dark Archive

PossibleCabbage wrote:
Guntermench wrote:
Giant doesn't get the +2 status from enlarge.
Yeah, Titan Mauler says "[I]ncrease your additional damage from Rage from 2 to 6" so it should work with additional status damage, as the additional damage from Rage is untyped.

Huh, I always thought that was wrapped into the sublcass. Guess they get damage increases only from their raging/instinct progression?

Well then, even better. -2 AC in Medium Armour giant barbarian is a crit magnet. Was that +6/+10/+18 rage damage too little? Now you can add in another +3 or +5 status bonus along with another +2 to +4 bonus circumstance damage from the L13 dwarf feat telluric power.


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shroudb wrote:
Same deal with Spellguns and Investigator: If you roll high on your stratagem use that, plus, if you have a spellcasting archetype which is common on investigators, you can always choose to still use them and try a spell attack roll even on a bad stratagem roll.

Hmm... I hadn't thought of that. Clever, I like it.


Did I misread something with the weapon weird oil? Doesn't it just change the crit spec and which prof you use ?

Can't see how you can transfer or add traits


Lollerabe wrote:

Did I misread something with the weapon weird oil? Doesn't it just change the crit spec and which prof you use ?

Can't see how you can transfer or add traits

say you want a bludgeoning weapon, but you are specialized in axes. you grab your hammer, apply the oil, and now you have a bludgeoning "axe".

same thing with traits. you want to have X trait for some reason, you grab a weapon with that trait, apply the oil, and voila, you now have the trait but you are using your main weapon proficiency.

i think it's mostly useful for picking up specialization on different damage types myself, i dont think just a trait is worth it for that expenditure, but you can do it.


Many talismans Barbarians can't use because of Command or Envision :(


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Onkonk wrote:
Many talismans Barbarians can't use because of Command or Envision :(

nonsense.

barbarians can pick up a talisman and smash it on someone's face. Perfectly usable!


Onkonk wrote:
Many talismans Barbarians can't use because of Command or Envision :(

Moment of Clarity...


barbarian can use snapleaf iron equalizer and iron cudgel

mostly enough


shroudb wrote:

I like bola, magnetic, and imp ammunition for Investigator.

Since you can know if you'll hit/crit or not before activating them it can be a pretty powerful burst effects for those.

Same deal with Spellguns and Investigator: If you roll high on your stratagem use that, plus, if you have a spellcasting archetype which is common on investigators, you can always choose to still use them and try a spell attack roll even on a bad stratagem roll.

this maybe the idea that can finally save investigator


Oh boy, falcata with hammer specialization.


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Seeing as the oil is a 7th-level item, fighter builds relying on swapping crit specs on an effectively-permanent basis are not going to be viable for a large portion of the game. Before higher levels, might still be useful as a contingency in a game using ABP.

The bola shot, imp shot, and black tendril shot all seem like very nice items for archers, with benefits that don't fall off as you level. Black tendril shot in particular I haven't seen much buzz about, which is surprising to me; it requires a save but inflicts Slowed 1 even on a critical success, and the only way to get out of it is to Escape.


egindar wrote:

Seeing as the oil is a 7th-level item, fighter builds relying on swapping crit specs on an effectively-permanent basis are not going to be viable for a large portion of the game. Before higher levels, might still be useful as a contingency in a game using ABP.

The bola shot, imp shot, and black tendril shot all seem like very nice items for archers, with benefits that don't fall off as you level. Black tendril shot in particular I haven't seen much buzz about, which is surprising to me; it requires a save but inflicts Slowed 1 even on a critical success, and the only way to get out of it is to Escape.

Does the oil change the weapon group entirely? If that's the case, fighters might find themselves with a -2 penalty if they apply this oil.


shroudb wrote:
Lollerabe wrote:

Did I misread something with the weapon weird oil? Doesn't it just change the crit spec and which prof you use ?

Can't see how you can transfer or add traits

say you want a bludgeoning weapon, but you are specialized in axes. you grab your hammer, apply the oil, and now you have a bludgeoning "axe".

same thing with traits. you want to have X trait for some reason, you grab a weapon with that trait, apply the oil, and voila, you now have the trait but you are using your main weapon proficiency.

i think it's mostly useful for picking up specialization on different damage types myself, i dont think just a trait is worth it for that expenditure, but you can do it.

I mean reach and or fatal could be. I understand the logic but where in the text does it say anything about traits ?

All i can see is that it can swap the weapon groups crit spec and what prof you therefore use.

Nothing in the text suggested you can copy paste traits. Or maybe I'm having a brain fart here.

Edit: and yup, falcata with hammer / flail sounds gross.


aobst128 wrote:
egindar wrote:

Seeing as the oil is a 7th-level item, fighter builds relying on swapping crit specs on an effectively-permanent basis are not going to be viable for a large portion of the game. Before higher levels, might still be useful as a contingency in a game using ABP.

The bola shot, imp shot, and black tendril shot all seem like very nice items for archers, with benefits that don't fall off as you level. Black tendril shot in particular I haven't seen much buzz about, which is surprising to me; it requires a save but inflicts Slowed 1 even on a critical success, and the only way to get out of it is to Escape.

Does the oil change the weapon group entirely? If that's the case, fighters might find themselves with a -2 penalty if they apply this oil.

You have to have proficiency with the original weapon, and then applying the oil lets you use your proficiency with the oil's group, and you apply the crit spec of the oil's group. The grievous rune "and similar magic" treat the weapon as the original group (so I think feats that require a specific group use the weapon's group and not the oil's group). It lasts an hour.

So the context people are talking about it in would be (e.g.) picking flail as your weapon group, then applying flail oil to a bastard sword, so now you have a two-hand d12 weapon that knocks prone on crit as a minor upgrade to a normal bastard sword DHA build.

But it's a 7th-level consumable, so I think you have to be 10th+ level or so for this to be a consistent strat, considering you probably only have one weapon fully runed up at a time and if you run out of oil, you'll be swinging at -2.

Dark Archive

Lollerabe wrote:
shroudb wrote:
Lollerabe wrote:

Did I misread something with the weapon weird oil? Doesn't it just change the crit spec and which prof you use ?

Can't see how you can transfer or add traits

say you want a bludgeoning weapon, but you are specialized in axes. you grab your hammer, apply the oil, and now you have a bludgeoning "axe".

same thing with traits. you want to have X trait for some reason, you grab a weapon with that trait, apply the oil, and voila, you now have the trait but you are using your main weapon proficiency.

i think it's mostly useful for picking up specialization on different damage types myself, i dont think just a trait is worth it for that expenditure, but you can do it.

I mean reach and or fatal could be. I understand the logic but where in the text does it say anything about traits ?

All i can see is that it can swap the weapon groups crit spec and what prof you therefore use.

Nothing in the text suggested you can copy paste traits. Or maybe I'm having a brain fart here.

Edit: and yup, falcata with hammer / flail sounds gross.

Yeah, I think its a situation of as a fighter you want the hammer/flail weapon category for the crit spec as you're leading proficiency. However, no hammer of flail has deadly or fatal on it (except 2 flails that are 1D6 weapon die size). Lets say the dungeon drops a w/e on level magic item or unique item that will help you win the fight against the dungeon boss. This could be because its made of a rare sky metal material, or a dungeon of trees that have weakness to axes, etc. Lets say this is a katana with deadly or falcata with fatal. You're build is all hammer focused, not sword, so you'd be at -2, but rub the magic oil all over it and now you have a weapon with traits or materials not available to the hammer group or your specific invested mainline weapon(s) and potentially uniquely designed to murder things in the dungeon for an hour. You aren't swapping traits, but temporarily aligning a non-mainline weapon to you're highest proficiency.

Another example could be a falcata fighter who knows there will be a bunch of flying enemies. The sword group doesn't have any thrown weapons for a backup ranged option at max proficiency. Rub up a boomerang (typically a club weapon group) and now you have a 60ft ranged weapon that you can hold in your off hand and chuck. Alternatively, rub up a bow for a few fights and fire long range using your sword proficiency.

I'm not sure why they didn't include bow/firearms and why the keyed group could only be melee weapon groups. It would have given gunslingers and archers a nice little consumable way to switch hit if they wanted for an hour.

Its a little niche since witches aren't the most popular, but there is a L10 feat for creating potions/oils 6 levels below class level. So a party with a L13 witch or dual classed fighter witch could be producing 3 per day or 4 at L15 if you get legendary in crafting.


Lollerabe wrote:
shroudb wrote:
Lollerabe wrote:

Did I misread something with the weapon weird oil? Doesn't it just change the crit spec and which prof you use ?

Can't see how you can transfer or add traits

say you want a bludgeoning weapon, but you are specialized in axes. you grab your hammer, apply the oil, and now you have a bludgeoning "axe".

same thing with traits. you want to have X trait for some reason, you grab a weapon with that trait, apply the oil, and voila, you now have the trait but you are using your main weapon proficiency.

i think it's mostly useful for picking up specialization on different damage types myself, i dont think just a trait is worth it for that expenditure, but you can do it.

I mean reach and or fatal could be. I understand the logic but where in the text does it say anything about traits ?

All i can see is that it can swap the weapon groups crit spec and what prof you therefore use.

Nothing in the text suggested you can copy paste traits. Or maybe I'm having a brain fart here.

Edit: and yup, falcata with hammer / flail sounds gross.

it's probably the brain fart as you called it at play here^^

so one is saying you swap traits from one weapon to another.

we are saying that you can use a weapon with a specific trait that your own category doesn't have.

in effect taking advantage of that trait with a different weapon group.

as an the example, in what you write immediately afterwards about the falcata, getting the effects on the fatal trait but still using your hammer proficiency.

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