Now, as people probably know from my last few begs for help on these boards, I like Characters that can Talk, Fight, Blow Stuff Up, Buff the Party or Craft Wonderful Items that make Adventuring easier. Preferably three out of the above five.
Needless to say having the DM throw her books at you all after you lure her vampire into the local wine-press where you've had the party Cleric casting nothing but Bless Water into a two-tonne vat for several days and then dump the contents of said vat on the Vampire isn't something you want a repeat of. Needless to say, this lady is no longer welcome back at the gaming table and we're back to a 6-man party, as our next rostered DM has waived his 'DM Assistant' as we're finally starting up on a Pathfinder Campaign, after all this time!
We're finally going to get into a Pathfinder Adventure, and our DM this time has told us 'Curse of the Crimson Throne' is going to be our kick-off into Pathfinder-heaven. I've got all the books, the actual hard-copies (incidentally, buy off Paizo, people, if at all possible and avoid the ludicrous price-hikes. Bought all five adventure modules off a store and these things cost me $35 a piece. B-F-S, I call, next time I'm geting the download and printing it up myself, will be much, much cheaper in the long-run and I can save the download to a portable thumb-drive so if the inevitable happens and pizza/chinese/pasta/blood/etc gets spilled on the 'book', it's no great loss.) and love the story concept. Now, I'm going to make a character that can fulfill a role in a 6-man party that will probably be a grab-bag of Pathfinder Classes (Probably including the APG classes of Summoner, Alchemist and/or Witch from the Final Playtest version) and for once I've managed to get my foot in the door and not be made to be the guy who always has to make the character to cover the 'spots' the other players didn't fill.
Rolls are:
1) 6, 5, 3, 1 (remove 1 as lowest number) 14
2) 5, 3, 1, 4 (remove 1 as lowest number) 12
3) 1, 3, 6, 3 (Remove 1 as lowest number) 12
4) 3, 6, 5, 2 (remove 2 as lowest number) 14
5) 4, 5, 3, 1 (remove 1 as lowest number) 12
6) 5, 6, 4, 2 (remove 2 as lowest number) 15
A 'Talking' Barbarian ... Str 15 Dex 14 Con 16 (14+2 Racial) Int 12 Wis 12 Cha 12, taking Favoured Class bonus to Skill Points so would probably be putting 1 rank every 2 out of 3 levels on Diplomacy and Sense Motive, keeping them within a few ranks of Maximum and the 3rd level spending those two points on Bluff and either Heal or another 'useful' Cross-Class Skill. Other than Persuasive Feat, would be going along the Power Attack/Cleave/Sunder/Great Cleave/Weapon Focus/Dazzling Display/Shatter Defences route, possibly picking up Iron Will and Lightning Reflexes at higher levels to boost my saves.
While normally with a Barbarian I go for the Falchion weapon, but this time, I'm thinking I might stick with a one-handed weapon like the Longsword or a Warhammer, just in case I need a hand free for other matters. Naturally for me, Half-Orc would be the Default Race here, hehe.
A 'Archer' Bard, would probably go Str 12 Dex 15 Con 14 Int 12 Wis 12 and Cha 16 (14+2 Racial) and go Human. Would go for Favoured Class to Skill ranks, netting me a tasty pile of 9 Skill Ranks per level without going Rogue, and would probably be keeping his Act, Percussion and Wind Perform skills as high as he can manage. I'm thinking of following TreatMonk's guide in this, but any other tricks I should be on the lookout for? This will be my first time playing a Pathfinder(ed) Bard.
In regards to the Artificer Wizard, I was thinking either going Half-Orc, just to piss in the face of tradition, or a Human again. Would likely go Str 12, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 17 (15+2 Racial), Wis 12, Cha 12 and again, Favoured Class bonus to Skill Points, netting me 6-7 Skill-Ranks per level. Would likely go either Necromancy School or Transmutation School, and take Enchantment and Conjuration as my 'prohibited' schools, to be a challenge to avoid 'Summon Army' wars and the inevitable alignment arguements of the 'mind rape' Charm school.
Skills would likely fall under Appraise, Craft (Alchemy), Diplomacy, Knowledge (Arcana), (History), (Local) and Profession (Brewer) as well as the fan-favourites Linguistics, Fly and Spellcraft. With, say, 6 skill-ranks per level I can keep those skills fairly well balanced and, while not able to be the Party Cook/Larder like my last Wizard (hehe, had a lot of fun 'interrogating' prisoners over a lavish meal I'd prepared for them, tended to make them quite willing to keep talking to the Party Face as I kept cooking!), this time around being a 'magic beer brewer' could be a fun concept and nothing is stopping me from picking up masterwork items and miscelaneous stuff and turning them into normal magical items for the Party's needs. I'm thinking picking up Craft Wands and Craft Wondrous Items as soon as I can, Wands for keeping utility low-level spells at the ready, Wondrous Items for the Party to use and eventually Magic Weapons and then probably Craft Rings or Rods, to make items that, again, the rest of the Party can use effectively.
Would ... probably take a Bonded Object and go for a Ring at low levels, for easy use and lack of being stolen, and probably a Staff of some kind at High Levels so I can bring some more utility to the party, either as a Blasty Staff like the Staff of Evocation, or a Staff of Transmutation for a bigger grab-bag of tricks, and then turn it into my Bonded Object.
The talker barbarian is a neat concept- specialize in intimidate. Get the feat intimidating prowess( strength to intimidating addition to charisma,if you barbarian is being played right it's a bigger boost than skill focus) The terrifying howl rage power is a must. This battlefield control really boosts your usefulness in combat.
The archer bard is a great character, the bard is a lot better than he used to be. If you can convince your DM, the knowledge devotion feat is amazing.
I wouldn't ban conjuration- and not for the summons. Mage armor and the teleports come in handy. Mind you, you can scribe scrolls and make other items in these cases, and at higher levels using two level one slots on mage armor isn't going to hurt you much at all.
Stay away from the pre-built staves. The custom ones you can design are almost always cheaper. I'm not sure what the process of changing bonded objects are, but keeping it as a ring is a good idea. Get an efficient quiver for your wands and staves, as you'll be carrying a lot of them.
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Spoiler:Butthurt lolz1) Talky Barbarian
2) Ranged Bard
3) Artificer Wizaardddddd!!
1) First off, I know this sounds really weird but stick with me. Any kind of talky character IMO should start off with at least 1 level in bard. The reason being that with the class skills and the number of ranks you get allow you to start off on a GREAT foot. Yes you get a little bit of spellcasting but if you don't want to use it... then don't. There is nothing stating that you cant just ignore that part of the class abilities. The bardic performances can be spun in any way you want, it doesn't have to me an instrument, or music at all if you don't want it to be. This is a common misconception, and due to the flavor of the class it often takes over as the guiding principle of it. My favorite bard I ever played with had Perform (Oratory) and just played it up as a battle warscream and charged into battle with an oversized Great-Axe. Played it up like his confidence and force of will inspired the group to greatness.
All that said, taking a level of bard WILL put you under the BAB curve, but for that you get a HUGE toobox. A single level in bard gives you EIGHT class skills and 6+int skill ranks. Think about it2) I've seen a range bard only once. He died, and fast. The fact that he played to the back of the field singles him out and make him difficult to save in the occurrence that one of the baddies get the sneak on you. I... don't recommend it. Otherwise the bard is all up to how you flavor him, they are like tofu, and that is a good thing. Party face bards usually end up getting tossed together into that generic "Listen to this cool song guys!" pile, just don't do that and you should be good.
3) I don't know what to say about this really except maybe nod my head away from the bonded object. I don't like it, and taking it feel more like a nerf than a boon. Requiring it be on you at all times for a level equivalent pearl of power in exchange for a body slot is not exactly optimal. Esp seeing as how you will be taking the item creation feats as you go, there is really nothing advantageous in getting this over a familiar. The main benefit in it is that it lets you make a magical item for yourself without the feats and if you are getting them anyway... ehhh.
Familiars don't HAVE to be lame. They may always have low health but they can be really cool. For instance my current plot pony is a Tengu Transmute Wizard with a raven familiar, I make frequent use of alter self (And a wand of this) to keep him looking like a Derro. So far none of the PC's have figured out that he is just my familiar. The little guy runs around town doing my chores and gets my leg work done for me.
The talker barbarian is a neat concept- specialize in intimidate. Get the feat intimidating prowess( strength to intimidating addition to charisma,if you barbarian is being played right it's a bigger boost than skill focus) The terrifying howl rage power is a must. This battlefield control really boosts your usefulness in combat.
Yes, my theory for the Barbarian is to be a street-taught fighter, so a little bit of the Rogue's Talking Skills coupled with a keen eye for con-artists and the ability to lean on people to get what I need when nothing else will work, coupled with the lovely, lovely full BAB and the Barbarian's weird and wonderful Rage Powers. I did wonder if I could have used a 3.5 variant of the Barbarian that traded me medium armor proficiency, shield proficiency and martial weapon proficiency for the ranger's two-weapon fighting tree, but the DM has ruled strait-out no for any 3.5 shenanigans. We're Pathfinder and Pathfinder-era Third Party only, which I can live with.
The archer bard is a great character, the bard is a lot better than he used to be. If you can convince your DM, the knowledge devotion feat is amazing.
sadly, I don't know that feat. I am honestly tossing up between grabbing a Repeating Light or Heavy Crossbow with my low Strength, and all the wonderful ways a Crossbow can be used, prone or one-handed and such like, vs the Bow's ease of use, lack of Feats to burn to use and so forth. Could be interesting, either way, actually. Being able to run around, take a shot and keep moving, all the while being able to keep up his Bardic Performance for the Party. With such a build, probably have to go for enchantments that build up big amounts of damage, such as stacking the elemental damage enchantments as well as the Holy or Archic/Order enchantments so that even as I'm running around singing "Club, Club, Club the smelly bandit!" I'm still contributing in a meaningful way to the party.
[I wouldn't ban conjuration- and not for the summons. Mage armor and the teleports come in handy. Mind you, you can scribe scrolls and make other items in these cases, and at higher levels using two level one slots on mage armor isn't going to hurt you much at all.
Stay away from the pre-built staves. The custom ones you can design are almost always cheaper. I'm not sure what the process of changing bonded objects are, but keeping it as a ring is a good idea. Get an efficient quiver for your wands and staves, as you'll be carrying a lot of them.
Well, on one hand I want to challenge myself, but on the other you raise a valid point. Still, nothing is stopping the Wizard from learning Conjuration and Enchantment spells and rather than preparing them as spells, craft them as Scrolls and I can still craft them into Wondrous Items, albeit at a penalty, or so I believe, or is that just a hold-over from 3.5 and the inability to use spell-trigger items from Prohibited Schools?
Perhaps taking Craft Construct would be a better use of the 13th level feat? No, sadly the crafting of the construct wouldn't be advisable in the latter stages of the campaign as we wouldn't have the time. Arrrrrrrrrgh ... maybe Craft Staff is the better choice. So, Human Wizard, Combat Casting, Great Fortitude, Improved Initiative at 1st level, Craft Wondrous Item at 3rd, Craft Wand and Craft Magic Arms and Armor at 5th, Toughness at 7th, 9th Extend Spell, 11th level Craft Staff, 13th level Spell Penetration?
3) I don't know what to say about this really except maybe nod my head away from the bonded object. I don't like it, and taking it feel more like a nerf than a boon. Requiring it be on you at all times for a level equivalent pearl of power in exchange for a body slot is not exactly optimal. Esp seeing as how you will be taking the item creation feats as you go, there is really nothing advantageous in getting this over a familiar. The main benefit in it is that it lets you make a magical item for yourself without the feats and if you are getting them anyway... ehhh.
Familiars don't HAVE to be lame. They may always have low health but they can be really cool. For instance my current plot pony is a Tengu Transmute Wizard with a raven familiar, I make frequent use of alter self (And a wand of this) to keep him looking like a Derro. So far none of the PC's have figured out that he is just my familiar. The little guy runs around town doing my chores and gets my leg work done for me.
Hmm, I did like the additional spell-slot but you do raise a valid point about the Pearl of Power and my crafting feats will allow me to churn out as many as I want over the course of the adventuring, so long as I can devote 4 hours per night to the spellwork, and have access to the right items to weave the spells into.
In regards to the familiar ... probably the Monkey, just for Flavour reasons, since I'm tired of Bird Familars, everybody takes the g~++++n Falcon/Owl/Bat it seems. And again, there is no rule against me equipping my Tiny Monkey with equally Tiny Rings of Invisibility and the like, as well as Bracers of Armor and a Necklace of some sort to boost AC and provide some protection against hostiles as he runs up and delivers some touch-attacks for me.
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Hmm, I did like the additional spell-slot but you do raise a valid point about the Pearl of Power and my crafting feats will allow me to churn out as many as I want over the course of the adventuring, so long as I can devote 4 hours per night to the spellwork, and have access to the right items to weave the spells into.
First purchase any good wizard makes is a Ring of Sustenance. And in terms of creation feats, I HIGHLY recommend craft construct asap.
"Can't sleep, must craft, can't sleep, one more enchantment ... just one more enchantment, can't sleep..."In regards to the familiar ... probably the Monkey, just for Flavour reasons, since I'm tired of Bird Familars, everybody takes the g~@~+~n Falcon/Owl/Bat it seems. And again, there is no rule against me equipping my Tiny Monkey with equally Tiny Rings of Invisibility and the like, as well as Bracers of Armor and a Necklace of some sort to boost AC and provide some protection against hostiles as he runs up and delivers some touch-attacks for me.
Make sure to put plenty of ranks in disable device, as anything with thumbs would be able to pick a lock. :D
"Andy! ANDY! Get me out of here! Yes.. yes, just like... HEY! Get back here, put that banana down! This sleep spell will wear off any moment! Good, you still have those tools right? Awesome...."
In regards to the familiar ... probably the Monkey, just for Flavour reasons, since I'm tired of Bird Familars, everybody takes the g!#!+*n Falcon/Owl/Bat it seems. And again, there is no rule against me equipping my Tiny Monkey with equally Tiny Rings of Invisibility and the like, as well as Bracers of Armor and a Necklace of some sort to boost AC and provide some protection against hostiles as he runs up and delivers some touch-attacks for me.
Make sure to put plenty of ranks in disable device, as anything with thumbs would be able to pick a lock. :D
"Andy! ANDY! Get me out of here! Yes.. yes, just like... HEY! Get back here, put that banana down! This sleep spell will wear off any moment! Good, you still have those tools right? Awesome...."
Huh ... you know in all the time we've been running Pathfinder, nobody has thought to do that. And while I would LOVE to make a Shield Golemn, problem is you end up spending 1 day per 1,000 gold spent, and to make a Shield Golemn, means spending an additional 45,000 gold. So, since the Crimson Throne caps out at 14-15th level, the earliest Golemn I could make would be a Flesh Golemn, not necessarily the best thing to wander around with as people tend to go "BWAAAAAAAARGH!" at the mere sight of a shuffling collection of body-parts, and towards end-game the players don't have time to spend 56 days waiting for a walking Shield Wall for the Wizard.
On the other hand ... maybe I can convince the GM to let me use some of those Golemns in that Dragon Magazine, I'm sure they're low-level, and it (That magazine) also had increased costs for granting the golemns sentience! Slap an Advanced Tin Golemn with the Shield Golemn enhancement and I've got my 'bodyguard'!
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Huh ... you know in all the time we've been running Pathfinder, nobody has thought to do that. And while I would LOVE to make a Shield Golemn, problem is you end up spending 1 day per 1,000 gold spent, and to make a Shield Golemn, means spending an additional 45,000 gold. So, since the Crimson Throne caps out at 14-15th level, the earliest Golemn I could make would be a Flesh Golemn, not necessarily the best thing to wander around with as people tend to go "BWAAAAAAAARGH!" at the mere sight of a shuffling collection of body-parts, and towards end-game the players don't have time to spend 56 days waiting for a walking Shield Wall for the Wizard.
On the other hand ... maybe I can convince the GM to let me use some of those Golemns in that Dragon Magazine, I'm sure they're low-level, and it (That magazine) also had increased costs for granting the golemns sentience! Slap an Advanced Tin Golemn with the Shield Golemn enhancement and I've got my 'bodyguard'!
Holy crap! I actually OWN that one you are talking about, let me go pull it out really fast. The puzzle golem from that looks pretty neat too :D
Ok, found it, Unfortunately it looks like the minimum level you'd be able to craft anything from it is 14th level.
But don't forget about the Iron Cobra and Homunculus at 7th CL. You can make a Homunculus to look like pretty much whatever you like.
nice spoiler
That is the type of things my players do, and yes it is annoying, but I love the creativity. It keeps me on my toes.
PS:TMS, which issue is that?|
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nice spoilerThat is the type of things my players do, and yes it is annoying, but I love the creativity. It keeps me on my toes.
PS:TMS, which issue is that?
Issue 302, December 2002.
How to build KILLER constructs. :D
Honestly it is my favorite single issue of Dragon, with the additional cantrips and the magical side effects.
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Range bards are the best bard; no challenge there.
Talking barbarian can be amazing if you do the scary dazzling display route; kind of a one-trick pony, but it's a good trick.
Artificer Mage is powerful; and no challenge at all. Even without doing anything in combat, creating magic items and doubling the party wealth is insanely good.
1) First off, I know this sounds really weird but stick with me. Any kind of talky character IMO should start off with at least 1 level in bard. The reason being that with the class skills and the number of ranks you get allow you to start off on a GREAT foot. Yes you get a little bit of spellcasting but if you don't want to use it... then don't. There is nothing stating that you cant just ignore that part of the class abilities. The bardic performances can be spun in any way you want, it doesn't have to me an instrument, or music at all if you don't want it to be. This is a common misconception, and due to the flavor of the class it often takes over as the guiding principle of it. My favorite bard I ever played with had Perform (Oratory) and just played it up as a battle warscream and charged into battle with an oversized Great-Axe. Played it up like his confidence and force of will inspired the group to greatness.
All that said, taking a level of bard WILL put you under the BAB curve, but for that you get a HUGE toobox. A single level in bard gives you EIGHT class skills and 6+int skill ranks. Think about it
I agree about multi-classing into either Bard or Rogue, but I'm trying to do a strait build without the multi-classing headaches. On the other hand, Rogue nets me 9 skill ranks and make pretty much 80% of the Skills in the game Class Skills, and an additional 3 to my rolls is nothing to be sneezed at! Bard grants an additional 7 skill ranks, perform is always useful even if I don't play it up as a Barbarian, gives him a nice little character building skill, able to play tolerably well on a fiddle or drum or has a fund of good jokes, so on and so forth. 1 level in Rogue gives me 1d6 Sneak Attack, which could be fun in combat, but 1 level in Bard gives me access to every 1st Level Bard spell, a +2 to Reflex and Will saves, effectively saving me Iron Will and Lightning reflexes and overall I'm just losing 1 point out of my BAB rotation and a shortsword's worth of hitpoints.
Pre-Pathfinder, my nominal 'Barbarian' was Barbarian 16/Rogue 4, 1 level of Rogue per 4 levels of Barbarian, to give me some social skills and access to Stealth, which was always fun. I did a Pathfinder Barbarian/Rogue but oddly enough I felt it slightly less 'meshy' than the 3.5 version, simple because of my inexperience with the rules then, i guess.
A Barbarian 16/Bard 4 could be an interesting build, certainly turns the Barbarian into a Saves Fortress and the lack of Hitpoints is easily compensated for with potions of False Life or a High Constitution, but sadly the Crimson Thone tends to pat players on the back and say 'Come back next week' after we hit level 14-15. A one-level dip wouldn't hurt, but I'm torn between taking Bard as my 2nd level, for mechanics reasons, or 1st level for roleplaying reasons. Dammit .... raaaaaargh.
In regard to the Bard (heh), group got together during our lunch-breaks and we have had a laugh at how two players both came up with nearly identical Halfing Rogue Archers, so if I do make a Bard I think I might make him a Half-Orc (stop rolling your eyes at me!) and make him a Falchion-wielding Combat-Bard instead. While I do like the concept of a Chain-Whip wielding Bard running around and tearing weapons out of hands, the whip is a dangerous weapon in that if they get within melee range I'm one dead Bard while using it! still, I can use it two-handed, which is a plus as far as I'm concerned.
I've always planned, the next time I do a two-whip fighter, to do a one level dip into monk. That way, I am always considered armed at close combat (even with my hands full of whips). Someone get's close and kick them in the kneecaps. ;)
One of the players I am with was going to try out a whip bard. They never got it off the ground, but the idea seemed sound.
Go mostly bard. Get improved trip, improved disarm, and weapon focus whip.
Take 1 level of sorcerer for true strike and shield. Note this also lets you use all sorcerer wands and staves. Sorcerer also gives you the level 1 bloodline ability.
While using bardic performance with true strike make a trip or disarm attempt. A bard 9/sorc 1 with a strength of 14 would have a +30 to trip and a +32 to disarm. A stone golem(CR 11) has a CMD of 33.
Right, party is almost decided and once again my ideas got ninjaed. I swear, if I find any of you bastards (this is directed at my table) are waiting for me to post, then to ninja my ideas, I will be wearing my steelcaps to the table and your shins will be shattered, I swear it on every God of the Nine Alignments! We've got a Halfling Bard Archer (GRRRRRRRRR!) a talky Halfing Tripping Cavalier (GRRRRRRRRRR!) a Human Sword-and-Board Fighter, a Human Wizard and a Aasimar Sorcerer handling Summoning and Blasting duties, with Wizard taking Craft Wand and Craft Wondrous item, and our Sorcerer taking Craft Ring and Craft Staff while our Elf Cleric of Desna is handling Illusion and Healing duties.
So I'm taking Rogue 2/Alchemist 12. I'll be the party's trap-smith and backup healer/scout. Will likely be going Half-Orc for two-weapon Fun-times and taking the Trap-Spotter Rogue Talent. What bomb-choices should I take other than Sticky Poison and Smoke Bomb?
Update: Cavalier decided to go Summoner Instead. So looks like I'll be going Talker Barbarian (10 ranks in Diplomacy and Sense Motive and Heal, the rest into the 'normal' Class Skills) and go for a Earthbreaker main weapon and Battle-Axe secondary. I'll post the 'finished' version soon as I can get confirmation that nobody is going to bloody do another swap-around. Thanks everybody, for your time and your patience!
We're finally going to get into a Pathfinder Adventure, and our DM this time has told us 'Curse of the Crimson Throne' is going to be our kick-off into Pathfinder-heaven. I've got all the books, the actual hard-copies (incidentally, buy off Paizo, people, if at all possible and avoid the ludicrous price-hikes. Bought all five adventure modules off a store and these things cost me $35 a piece. B-F-S, I call, next time I'm geting the download and printing it up myself, will be much, much cheaper in the long-run and I can save the download to a portable thumb-drive so if the inevitable happens and pizza/chinese/pasta/blood/etc...
$35 a book isn't bad when your comparing to buying the PDF and printing the books off. A ream of paper is about ~$10-15 for 500 sheets, you'll use ~100 of these each book. Then you add in the cost of the PDF so your up to $15. Then you factor ink costs and the price SKYROCKETS! I put brand new ink in my printer (Black, tri-color~ $80) and by the time I printed off RotRl books 1&2 I had to put more tri-color ink in. The moral of the story- AP subscriptions are the way to go. /return to corner and cry at self.
But on topic- Artificer Wizard all the way. Arcane Bond a Smithing Hammer, be a dwarf, throw it at things. Make cool stuff.
I've always planned, the next time I do a two-whip fighter, to do a one level dip into monk. That way, I am always considered armed at close combat (even with my hands full of whips). Someone get's close and kick them in the kneecaps. ;)
or use spiked gauntlets/bladed boots.
Well ... sheetzu. Party got crumpled up and thrown into the bin by the DM and he shouted "AGAIN!" after three of the group decided they all wanted to make new characters for the fourth time. This time, I've been given permission for a Tiefling, and given the choices of Ranger, Rogue or Witch. I've chosen to go Rogue 10/Fighter 4 to be the Trap-Master for the party since nobody was willing to stick their hand up for it this time around.
((anyone know which module/book it was that has the article on Tieflings and their 'mutations' so I can bone up on it? Otherwise we're using the Tiefling out of the Pathfinder Beastiary, page 264.))
Still Pathfinder Core only, which bites, but given the rolls I was lucky enough to get (14, 12, 12, 14, 12, 15) I think I can make a decent TWF Rogue/Fighter hybrid that can talk, disarm traps and beat the stuffing out of opponents. Yay for 3/4 in the talent department!
Assigned Scores at this stage: Str 14 Dex 17 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 12 Cha 10
Planning on using the Fighter Bonus Feats to gain Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization as well as Greater TWF and TWF-Defence. Planning on using a pair of Handaxes, Shortswords, Dogslicers or a Kukri, although I find as a Rogue Criticals matter less than stacking Sneak Attack Dice.Then again, possibly grabbing a Two-Bladed Sword via an Exotic Proficiency feat, or maybe a Gyrspike or Dire Flail could be fun. Hell, just grab a Quarterstaff perhaps. Actually, hmm, that does sound like a nice little bit of Fluff to add to the Tiefling, and I can use it to pole-vault and balancing on ledges ... huh.
Alternatively, a Tiefling Rogue/Fighter using the Two Handed Tree and grabbing the biggest, nastiest weapon I can find also appeals. I always grab a Keen Falchion, so I'll try to avoid that and instead go for a Halberd or perhaps a Ogre Hook?
Planning on using those Fighter Levels to grab a Chain Shirt and a Armored Kilt, both Mithril, to boost my AC while keeping my Maximum Dexterity Bonus as high as possible. Going for the 'if they can't touch me they can't hit me' style rather than 'wall of natural armor' Rogues in my group tend to roll with.
Feats I should be on the lookout for ... Dodge, Mobility and Spring attack, also Double-Slice? Given Rogue 10 will give me plenty of Reflex Saves, Fighter will net me some nice Fortitude saves, throwing Iron Will into the Mix and possibly taking Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise and Improved Disarm?
level 1:
Tiefling Rogue 1 (Favoured Class Bonus to Skills)
HD: 1d8+2 Con (10 hit-points)
BAB: +0
Melee: Shortsword +2 (1d6+2 19-20/x2) or Shortsword +0 (1d6+2 19-20/x2) and Dagger +0 (1d4+1 19-20/x2)
Ranged: Sling +2 (1d4+2 /x2) or Dagger +0 (1d4+2 19-20/x2) and Dagger +0 (1d4+1 19-20/x2)
Armor: Studded Leather (+3 AC +5 Dexterity Bonus -1 Armor Check Penalty)
Feat: Two Weapon Fighting.
Skills: (11) Acrobatics 1+3+3(7), Bluff 1+3+0(4), Climb 1+3+2(6), Diplomacy 1+3+0(4), Disable Device 1+3+3(7), Disguise 1+3+0(4), Knowledge (Local) 1+3+2(6), Perception 1+3+1(5), Stealth 1+3+3(7), Swim 1+3+2(6) and leaving one slot open for either Craft or Profession, depending upon what the rest of the group decides.
Your group had great promise with the "belligerent Hobbits o' Doom!" approach. Go team hobbit! :)
The article on tieflings is in the first chapter of the Council of Thieves AP ... Pathfinder #25 as I recall.
*toe-wiggling excitement* oh boy oh boy oh boy cannot wait to run the Variant Abilities past the DM. I like how the Stats work for my Tiefling, but might have to end up taking the Devil-Spawned or Rakhasa-Spawned Racial Abilities instead.
*continues dancing in his seat, toes wriggling eagerly* oooooh boy oh boy oh boy! *gives Turin the Mad a big Orcish hug in gratitude*
Edit: The ability to talk to birds sounds ... interesting. Might have to drop some ranks into Handle Animal and pick up some Hawk (or similar) friends.
Edit 2: Or maybe take the claws and role-play as a Tiefling descended from a Hellcat (Bezekira). While the claws won't matter so much while dual-wielding, having them as backup weaponry, or perhaps Scent and pick up the Track Feat and the Survival Skill, just for fluff.
*toe-wiggling excitement* oh boy oh boy oh boy cannot wait to run the Variant Abilities past the DM. I like how the Stats work for my Tiefling, but might have to end up taking the Devil-Spawned or Rakhasa-Spawned Racial Abilities instead.
*continues dancing in his seat, toes wriggling eagerly* oooooh boy oh boy oh boy! *gives Turin the Mad a big Orcish hug in gratitude*
Edit: The ability to talk to birds sounds ... interesting. Might have to drop some ranks into Handle Animal and pick up some Hawk (or similar) friends.
Edit 2: Or maybe take the claws and role-play as a Tiefling descended from a Hellcat (Bezekira). While the claws won't matter so much while dual-wielding, having them as backup weaponry, or perhaps Scent and pick up the Track Feat and the Survival Skill, just for fluff.
Claws are very fun with reach weapons, combat reflexes, and lunge. Then you threaten and hit anything that passes through a 15ft radius.
I would suggest a rogue/alchemist. Alchemist has enough skill points to help with trapfinding, plus you can enlarge yourself, poison the weapons you have (very rogue-ish), etc. An enlarged alchemist with a longspear, lunge, claws for close range, and combat reflexes is essentially a NO-FLY ZONE for any idiot who tries to pass by.
Heck, you can even say you got into alchemy as a means to try to "cure" your heritage.
He could have gotten into alchemy to handle his pesh addiction too ... maybe even be a pesh dealer (barely) under the law's radar in Korvosa with the nefarious socialite climber from decadent Westcrown in far-off Cheliax having relatively recently arrived and married the old King...
Fun times are ahead for sure!
I considered Alchemist, but this time around I was given the choices of Rogue, Ranger or Witch. Also, I'm too in-love with the skills Perception, Acrobatics and Diplomacy, so Rogue was the natural choice for myself.
DM has advised me that my class-selections are quite literally Rogue, Ranger and Witch, although he's happy for me to use PrCs if I want. Rogue 5/Assassin 10 (we use non-good rather than Evil and get rid of the Special requirement in our general area) is one option but ... eeeeeeh, I'm a Good person at heart (my group regularly complains I'm a Paladin trapped in an Ogre's body!) and being a Pesh-Pusher worries me on several levels.
After some talking with the DM, we've decided upon a flat-out Rogue Build (nobody else is going to touch the Rogue Class as a Trap-Master, but two other people are going to take 4-level Dips into Rogue to gain access to specific Rogue Talents.) will best serve the campaign, and the party.
Traits are Poverty Stricken (Survival as a Class Skill) and Drug Addict (Addicted Lover) (+1 to Gather Information).
Will go Level 1)TWF, 2)Rogue Talent *Combat Trick [TwF Defence]*, 3)Dodge, 4)Rogue Talent *Bleeding Attack*, 5) Mobility, 6) Rogue Talent *Combat Trick [Defensive Training]*, 7) Improved TwF, 8) Rogue Talent *Combat Trick [Double Slice]*, 9) Master Craftsman (Goldsmith), 10) Advanced Rogue Talent *Crippling Strike*, 11) Toughness, 12) Advanced Rogue Talent *Defensive Roll*, 13) Iron Will, 14) Advanced Rogue Talent *Skill Mastery*.
Tiefling Rogue 1 (Favoured Class Bonus to Skills)
Str 14 Dex 17 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 12 Cha 10
HD: 1d8+2 Con (10 hit-points)
BAB: +0
Melee: Quarterstaff +2 (1d6+3 19-20/x2) or Quarterstaff +0/+0 (1d6+2 19-20/x2 and 1d6+1 19-20/x2) or Dagger +0 (1d4+2 19-20/x2) and Dagger +0 (1d4+1 19-20/x2)
Ranged: Sling +2 (1d4+2 /x2) or Dagger +2 (1d4+2 19-20/x2)
Armor: Studded Leather (+3 AC +5 Dexterity Bonus -1 Armor Check Penalty)
Feat: Two Weapon Fighting.
Skills: (11) Acrobatics 1+3+3(7), Bluff 1+3+0(4), Climb 1+3+2(6), Diplomacy 1+3+0(4), Disable Device 1+3+3(7), Disguise 1+3+0(4), Knowledge (Local) 1+3+2(6), Perception 1+3+1(5), Stealth 1+3+3(7), Survival 1+3+1(5) and Craft (Goldsmith) to be able to make magical rings, necklaces, brooches and possibly decanters and other items typically crafted from rare metals. I would go (Jeweller) but as I am one in real life it would lead to too much eye-rolling, and a gutter-born Tiefling would know only the larcenous aspects of the trade, how to melt down jewellery into easily disguisable ingots and how to remove stones from their settings without damaging them, so on and so forth.
The reason for avoiding Weapon Focus is so that I can swap out a Quarterstaff for a pair of shortswords to a Sickle and a Heavy Mace and back to the Quarterstaff without any real 'gimping' of my feat choices. If I thought I could get away with a trap-springing Ranger, I would do so.
Oh, also, I have a pet Torble called Mumbler. ^_^ . Yay!
Alternative build (going towards Shadowdancer) Rogue 8/Shadowdancer 6. Feat choices would be the same, probably, but would probably drop some skill-ranks in Disguise and drop alternating ranks in Climb and Swim.
edit: forgot to mention, I had a moment of fail and managed to get the 5sp of Precious Blood per day in place of the Darkness ability.
40: As a full-round action, you can bleed and collect 5 sp worth
of precious blood per day. DM intends to rule that this blood has minor magical properties, useful as a reagent in magical item crafting. Minor, niggling thing, but handy as a fluff-mechanic
I intend to use this as part of my Goldsmith Craft skill, having no real mechanical effect but the addition of Tiefling Blood should make the items I make somewhat unique, given the fiendish flavour of the elixir. Also adds to the concept of 'a little bit of the caster in everything they make' theme. Not everything a Character can do is useful or perfect, after all. Sometimes it's just flat-out fluff.
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The artificer wizard, ultimate tool box, especially if you use "unseen builder" spell from the Ebberon setting. I really like them because I usually make them item users, practically the builder of James Bond weapons. All you need are all the crafting feats, use the golem creation feat for a small force of useful homonculi like the actual artificer class. Good fun.
As for the talking barbarian, I remember something from unearthed arcana. The savage bard. It's just a switch out of certain spells and class skills to make him more down and dirty. Make him essentially a battle drummer, sacrifice some charisma for more strength and constitution for a combat bard that powers up the party with war music. Otherwise you can just try to up some barbarian wisdom and make him more of the wise old shaman type. Go out of your way to pick up diplomacy instead of intimidate.
The savage bard might also be useful for the ranger idea.
And I like your set up you just posted but there is one more thought I got from a D&D 3.5 book. Which is worse? Bull rushing and pounding a guy in the face as a paladin... Or a single fast strike that drops him like an assassin does, not even letting him feel pain. If you did go for the rogue you can think of it as the least bloody means to end a battle. Like batman in a way.
Again, much as I wish I could use old 3.5 manuals, we're on a strict Pathfinder-Only regiment to make sure we don't go back to the olde 3.5 shenanigans where players stack the most advantageous PrC builds onto one character and break reality by looking at it the wrong way. I do love the concept of a 'Savage Bard', taking up Percussion instruments and Oratory to get the party's blood fired up, and I really did want to try out a 'Batman' Wizard, but those options are now closed to me T_T thanks to the power-grabbing of a couple of members that caused our DM to lay down some hard rules on creating characters.
What should I be using to store the blood in and how should I keep it fresh? Naturally not at 1st level but later on, I'm intending to grab a Wineskin of Holding to store the blood in, hopefully with a Gentle Repose spell woven in as well. The way I'm working the mechanics out, we've got 2,500 for the wineskin itself, plus (3 (spell level) x5 (caster level) x 2,000 ) divided by 1/2 as per table 15-29, page 550 in the Pathfinder Core Rulebook. That means for my bag of blood-storing, that's a whopping 15,000 for a wineskin to store relatively useless blood and keep it fresh.
On the other hand, at 5 silver, and we're probably talking 16 ounces to 1 pound, and the Type 1 Bag(Wineskin) can hold 250 pounds, or 4,000 ounces. That's at maximum capacity, 2,000 gold's worth of rare, fiendish blood at my fingertips, possibly literally!
I think the way the rule would nominally work is Secret Chest is a 5th level spell, castable at 10th level. Gentle Repose is a 3rd level spell, castable at 5th level. But the cost for the Bag is only 2,500, far, far below the cost of a Continous magical item created by a 10th level caster.
I'm not usually in the hippy-dippy "play what is fun to play and stats be darned" club. Really, I'm not. I know numbers matter. I DO pick FE: Human when I play a ranger. I write in a backstory for my numbers, NOT the other way around. Therefore, I do understand why your DM would want certain people to fill in certain voids; it makes sense.
I also understand not allowing broken combinations, third party stuff, 3.5...it's all very reasonable to keep the party from growing out of control.
I considered Alchemist, but this time around I was given the choices of Rogue, Ranger or Witch.
But this, my good sir, seems like a considerable Dick Move on the behalf of your DM. It's one thing to say "hey, we really need a trapspringer, so can you fill that role on the side?" but it's totally DM (and I don't mean dungeon master in this instance) to say "Pick one of these three. Period."
DM has advised me that my class-selections are quite literally Rogue, Ranger and Witch, although he's happy for me to use PrCs if I want.
how generous of him to limit you in slightly less of a confining manner
Maybe that's just my opinion, though, but it seems like you're railroaded before you even got to the tracks.
More along the lines that we had some people who kept on picking and re-picking classes to be the 'l33t p0wah!', so the DM laid down the law and made sure that we'll cover at least some bases, and to stop the shenanigans before they get outta hand. I'm not worried so much, as generally I end up making characters last of everyone else. They normally have character concepts they want to play at the drop of a hat, while I take a week or so to boil down a concept into a workable character that won't break the 4th wall overmuch.
Okay, final call as we're starting the campaign in two days. How are the strait Rogue and/or Shadow Dancer builds going to last in a 14-level campaign?
Are the Rogue Talents I've taken going to cut it? Any that I should be grabbing?
Should I give up on the TwF and go for a single, powerful weapon like the Falcata or a two-handed Reach Weapon like a Glaive or a Bill? I know more attacks equal more sneak-attacks but at the same point actually g$*~$&n hitting the target to sneak attack at all.
Current Party, as things stand, is a Halfling Witch with a Toad Familiar (I've been told if my Torble eats his Familiar, there will be blood spilt, mostly mine!), a Halfling Ranger specialising in Throwing Weapons and mounted combat on her eventual Animal Companion (She's going for Throwing Axes, which is hilarious considering the small size of her weapons but the ludicrous strength-bonus this Halfling has. Also, she's mentioned a burning desire to get herself 'some bald hunky shoanti lov-aaah', which basically set every man at the table to whimpering at the mental images conjured involving a a Golarion version of Strength 16 Lidda and a bald, completely human version of Krusk!), a Human (Chelaxian) Wizard focusing in Conjuration (We all threw our shoes at him for copping out and going easy-mode!) with prohibited Necromancy and Transmutation, a Human (Varisian) Cleric of Pharasma (Healing and Repose domains, although we're a little uneasy at her choice of doing the campaign without armor!) and a Half-Elf Fighter (who is going to go take a level or two in Sorcerer and then go Eldritch Knight all the way.).
Now, we've got a distinctive lack of 'wall of AC' characters but that's tolerable, Summon Monsters can handle the 'Oh s~$% hold it in place while we flank' position (and if they die, big whoop!) Our Ranger will be going for medium armor, TwF tree and Quick Draw, Point-Blank etc etc, Cleric will be going into the game NO ARMOR and my own character, plus the Fighter, will both be wearing light armor, in my case because I'm a Rogue, in his case to keep his spell failure down to a minimum. Mithril Chain shirt at best for him!
On another note, I have been taken aside and told that I will likely be the person who ends up having Trinia Sabor attach herself to my character like some emotionally-dependent parasite slowly sucking away at my lonely emo-batman Tiefling. Who will be ugly as sin, but still somehow get the girl. Huzzah. Since the rest of the group seems to be hell-bent on being either lawful as all hell and/or have little interest in cohorts. Which feat should I be swapping out for Leadership? Which one will cost my combatant/talker/trap disarming Rogue less in the long-run for the useful ... perky ... lithe ... actually suddenly I'm looking forward to Trinia Sa-boing! becoming my new second best friend, after my Torble Mumbler!
Thank you to everyone who posted. You've given me a lot to think about, and likely if my (now beloved!) tiefling does expire, I have several character concepts to fall back upon! Thank yoooooooooooou!
Tiefling Rogue 1 (Favoured Class Bonus to Skills)
Medium Outsider (Native)
Str 14 Dex 17 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 12 Cha 10
HD: 1d8+2 Con (10 hit-points)
BAB: +0
Melee: Quarterstaff +2 (1d6+3 19-20/x2) or Quarterstaff +0/+0 (1d6+2 19-20/x2 and 1d6+1 19-20/x2) or Dagger +0 (1d4+2 19-20/x2) and Dagger +0 (1d4+1 19-20/x2)
Ranged: Sling +2 (1d4+2 /x2) or Dagger +2 (1d4+2 19-20/x2)
Armor: Studded Leather (+3 AC +5 Dexterity Bonus -1 Armor Check Penalty)
Feat: Two Weapon Fighting.
Skills: (11) Appraise 1+3+2(6), Acrobatics 1+3+3(7), Bluff 1+3+0(4), Craft (Goldsmith) 1+3+2(6), Diplomacy 1+3+0(4), Disable Device 1+3+3(7), Disguise 1+3+0(4), Knowledge (Local) 1+3+2(6), Perception 1+3+1(5), Stealth 1+3+3(7) and Survival 1+3+1(5). (Will be taking ranks in Climb, Swim, Escape Artist and whatever else I need 2nd level!)
1/day: Can gather up drops of golden blood that drips from the point of his left horn, worth 5 silver pieces to anyone with an interest in alchemy or magical reagents. (This replaces his Darkness 1/Day ability)
He has a face that is flat and broad, in particular his nose looks like a scupltor came and tried unsuccessfully to mould the appendage back into his face, and his eyes have yellow irises and red pupils. His is physically fit, although his fiendish bloodline results in an otherwise normal figure being marred with irreguar pale-grey spots and bony spurs on his elbows and knees.
Quarterstaff, 6 daggers, Sling and 20 bullets, Sharkskin Studded Leather Armor (Jigsaw shark hide for appearance's sake only!), Monk's Outfit (wearing), Thieves' Tools, Waterskin of Common Wine, 10 pieces of different coloured chalk, grappling hook and 50 feet of black silk rope, 3 belt-pouches.
Non-Combat gear (stashed away in his current sleeping area, an abandoned wood-shed at the south-western edge of Old Korvosa_: Artisan's Outfit, Explorer's Outfit, Bedroll and Winter Blanket, Crowbar, Flint and Steel, 2 loaves of bread, string of pork sausages, several onions, apples and potatoes, flask of acid and a set of merchant's scales.
Treasured Possession: Pet Torble, Mumbler (see Pathfinder 25, "Bastards of Erebus" for details), lives in Argent's battered Iron Pot and eats just about everything, from brightly coloured marbles to baby rats to the occasional 'dirty' item that the Tiefling wants to be cleaned, usual coins, rings or other non-organic items. Is often fed using his Precious Blood ability, meaning the Torble has a bright red colour with black highlights. Worst. Guard-dog. Ever. Extremely affectionate despite being rather disgusting to most people.