Would having a headband of (whatever) that's actually a hair ribbon be reasonable?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


I would think so, as there's no mechanical difference.


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As long as it fills the slot, you can have it look however you want.


I have no objections.

Scarab Sages

Same as the others said if it occupies the head slot it can be a pretty ribbon, a metal planted band, a crown, etc. There's entire items that are designed to look "normal" e..g the hat of disguise.

This apparently normal hat allows its wearer to alter her appearance as with a disguise self spell. As part of the disguise, the hat can be changed to appear as a comb, ribbon, headband, cap, coif, hood, helmet, or other headwear.


The only qualifier I'd add is that it probably shouldn't be any harder to recognise a magic ribbon of +6 intelligence. If the point is flavor, then we shouldn't be trying to get mechanical advantage by inventing items that are easy to conceal. "My magic toenail polish acts as Boots of Haste, so that protects me from thieves."


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Unless we're talking about non-spellcasters with 10+ ranks of Spellcraft, the default for identifying magic items involves Detect Magic, Identify, etc. Given that they allow the caster to detect the presence and number of magical auras, as well as their relative strength, I'd say that being clever with magic item appearance in and of itself shouldn't be a problem.


As long as there is no mechanical distinction, go nuts.


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The visual descriptions in the books are more suggestion than hard lore… the visual descriptions and artwork for many NPCs that have specific magic items often don't even include the magic item, and some of the artwork for magic items in the books don’t even match their descriptions. There is even at least one instance if a description claiming the item to be a specific color while the artwork depicts it in a completely different color.

So… yes… a ribbon of (whatever) is a perfectly reasonable reflavoring of a headband of (whatever).

I had a character that was specifically described as always being barefoot in one campaign who’s magic boots were reflavored to anklets.


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Reskinning something almost never matters. Items, monsters, whatever.

Liberty's Edge

Add me to the chorus. As long as it uses the same slot, it is not a problem.

There is an advantage: my characters like to wash their hair fairly often (blood, viscera, and other things fly around when you fight). Removing a headband would restart the 24 hours timer for the stat increase, so making it earrings simplify things.
Belts don't share that problem, as physical stats generally don't change the number of spells you are able to cast. It can change the number of rounds of rage, but, generally, that isn't a big problem as after a few levels you have plenty of them (yes, I am biased, never played a barbarian).


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NO UR NOT ALLOWED TO DO THIS STOP HAVING FUN


I might object if you wanted it to be a very plain ribbon, but as long as the ribbon is as fancy as the headband I definitely have no objections.


Ryze Kuja wrote:
NO UR NOT ALLOWED TO DO THIS STOP HAVING FUN

RYZE IS CORRECT, WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO AGREE AND HAVE FUN!


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In reality, I have no objection to how something looks (as long you're not trying to get a mechanical benefit like "oh you can't see it or oh it can't be stolen because tattoo". Virtually anyone who is going to investigate is going to find someway to use detect magic and learn that the item is magical, and then follow up to identify it.

The likelihood that it even matters is very low.


You know the funniest thing? You see, there was this witch slayer wannabe! She grabbed me from 15 feet away, but she had this weird hair ribbon on her, so out of relfex, I grabbed it! And the hair got really weak so I got away! I would be dead if it had been a headband!

Liberty's Edge

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One of my players just brought an item that exemplifies why the "you need to wear this item for 24 hours" need some house rule:

Mnemonic Vestment
A mnemonic vestment must be worn for 24 consecutive hours before using its effects.

My houserule is that, as long as you don't wear a different magic item in that location, the attunement stays active even if you remove the object. You don't receive the benefit, but as soon as you wear it again it works as if you had worn it continuously.

Obviously, some other guy using the item breaks the attunement.


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Yeah, the requirement to wear an item for a time period was always BS that meant you couldn't do things like bathe.

I agree Diego that I generally said that as long as you didn't try to wear another item in that slot, or let someone else wear that item, you would resume receiving the bonus when you put it on again.

Shadow Lodge

Diego Rossi wrote:

One of my players just brought an item that exemplifies why the "you need to wear this item for 24 hours" need some house rule:

Mnemonic Vestment
A mnemonic vestment must be worn for 24 consecutive hours before using its effects.

My houserule is that, as long as you don't wear a different magic item in that location, the attunement stays active even if you remove the object. You don't receive the benefit, but as soon as you wear it again it works as if you had worn it continuously.

Obviously, some other guy using the item breaks the attunement.

That restriction on the vestments is there to prevent players from getting around the 'once per day' restriction by simply donning another 'vestment' right after you use the special ability of your current one. The 'poster child' for this restriction was the pre-nerf Quick Runner's Shirt, which at a mere 1,000g was cheap enough that every martial should have had a different one for each battle in a day:

Quick Runner's Shirt (pre-nerf) wrote:

Source Ultimate Equipment pg. 222

...
This shirt is made of light, gossamer-thin fabric embroidered with arrangements of winged feet. Once per day as a swift action, the wearer can take an additional move action to move and then immediately end his turn, losing any unspent actions. A character must wear this shirt continuously for 24 hours before he can activate this ability.

As for bathing, if you are a spontaneous caster with enough funds for these vestments, I think it's kinda presumed you have access to magical cleaning of some sort


I think of removing the item for the first 24 hours to be more like a debuff that becomes permanent after 24 hours.

Liberty's Edge

Taja the Barbarian wrote:


As for bathing, if you are a spontaneous caster with enough funds for these vestments, I think it's kinda presumed you have access to magical cleaning of some sort

AD&D/D&D/Pathfinder generally lack the spells or magic items for that, but even disregarding that, I wouldn't like to wear the same robe or vestment for every hour of the day for every hour of my life.

Even less if we speak of boots instead of robes.

Then there is the "cost" for the character. Memorizing/learning a self-cleaning spell that you have to use every day or buying a magic item has an opportunity cost. A servant with the right equipment similarly has a cost and you need to keep him alive.

My characters with arcane spells always have prestidigitation, but I don't feel that "It can color, clean, or soil items in a 1-foot cube each round" will be the same as having a bath or taking a shower.

My characters love their comfort. They can live without them for a time, but they are one of the reasons to risk life and limbs. While not adventuring they will live a comfortable and even hedonistic life.

Taja the Barbarian wrote:


That restriction on the vestments is there to prevent players from getting around the 'once per day' restriction by simply donning another 'vestment' right after you use the special ability of your current one.

True, my houserule is meant to maintain that limitation while allowing the characters a bit more freedom.


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This spell is great to solve all your bathing needs. It is even approved by the Prophets of Kalistrade.

Fastidiousness

1st level, lasts for 24 hours, repels dirt and if you get dirty auto cleans over the course of a minute. It even grants a bonus vs disease.


That seems like something that someone would turn into a cast once per day item. And that's fine.

But I think some people are still going to want to take a nice hot bath despite that. And role playing doing stuff that sees you take clothes off shouldn't be punished for no reason.

As long as your not trying to gain some mechanical advantage, I say let it go.


Oh yeah of course people would still want to take long baths.

But this allows you to be clean while adventuring even when you don't have water available.


Temperans wrote:

This spell is great to solve all your bathing needs. It is even approved by the Prophets of Kalistrade.

Fastidiousness

1st level, lasts for 24 hours, repels dirt and if you get dirty auto cleans over the course of a minute. It even grants a bonus vs disease.

just use Prestidigitation

Prestidigitation

Scarab Sages

Diego Rossi wrote:

One of my players just brought an item that exemplifies why the "you need to wear this item for 24 hours" need some house rule:

Mnemonic Vestment
A mnemonic vestment must be worn for 24 consecutive hours before using its effects.

My houserule is that, as long as you don't wear a different magic item in that location, the attunement stays active even if you remove the object. You don't receive the benefit, but as soon as you wear it again it works as if you had worn it continuously.

Obviously, some other guy using the item breaks the attunement.

I think I'll adopt this house rule makes more sense to me. I've always nabbed the clean spell from arcana unearthed 3.5 very similar to fastidious only it cleans once rather than ongoing and also does your teeth.


I use the same houserule, with a same room/within arms reach clause added. So if you are captured and stripped you lose the bonus, even jf no one else wears your magic cod piece.


TxSam88 wrote:
Temperans wrote:

This spell is great to solve all your bathing needs. It is even approved by the Prophets of Kalistrade.

Fastidiousness

1st level, lasts for 24 hours, repels dirt and if you get dirty auto cleans over the course of a minute. It even grants a bonus vs disease.

just use Prestidigitation

Prestidigitation

Prestidigitation ha a size limit and is overall wonky. Great for doing the laundry and adding a bit of seasoning and heat to porridge, not so much for cleaning yourself or others.

Also remember that Presitidigitation cannot copy any effect from a higher-level spell. So, it's best to err on the weaker side than to assume it's a cure all.


Temperans wrote:

This spell is great to solve all your bathing needs. It is even approved by the Prophets of Kalistrade.

Fastidiousness

1st level, lasts for 24 hours, repels dirt and if you get dirty auto cleans over the course of a minute. It even grants a bonus vs disease.

Fastidiousness is my Paladin’s go-to.

Because cleanliness is next to godliness.

Scarab Sages

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Hygiene is . . .

Hygiene
School: Transmutation
Level: 0 (Simple)
Casting Time: Standard action
Target: 1 creature
Duration: instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

You clean the subject creature, ridding them of dirt, sweat, contamination, foul odors, and so on. This spell not only makes the subject presentable for fine company, it promotes better health.

For 24 hours after casting, the subject gains a +1 circumstance bonus on all saves against disease.

Used frequently, this spell helps stave off tooth decay and other such minor maladies.

Heightened effect target changes to 1 creature per level.

I normally raise it to 1st level and have it affects casting mod creatures.


Temperans wrote:
TxSam88 wrote:
Temperans wrote:

This spell is great to solve all your bathing needs. It is even approved by the Prophets of Kalistrade.

Fastidiousness

1st level, lasts for 24 hours, repels dirt and if you get dirty auto cleans over the course of a minute. It even grants a bonus vs disease.

just use Prestidigitation

Prestidigitation

Prestidigitation ha a size limit and is overall wonky. Great for doing the laundry and adding a bit of seasoning and heat to porridge, not so much for cleaning yourself or others.

Also remember that Presitidigitation cannot copy any effect from a higher-level spell. So, it's best to err on the weaker side than to assume it's a cure all.

you can use it to clean yourself and your clothing in one foot volume increments. as a zero level spell that only takes 1 round, you can clean your entire self in less than 2 minutes. since Clean is one of the functions of the spell, this falls within the spells parameters.


"I now you want revenge, but you can't beat him! He has a powerful Belt of Physical Might! It enhances TWO of his physical ability scores!"

"I must avenge my father! I can beat him if... I ambush him while he's taking a poo."


Yqatuba wrote:
I would think so, as there's no mechanical difference.

Smashing an Object

The physical properties of the two materials are rather different. There is a difference in Hardness & HPs from metal to cloth (10 & 7 to 2 & 0 at 1/4"). Deformation between the materials is also quite different as you can put a ribbon in your pocket but the metal band won't collapse.
In the game reskinning is okay as long as there is no mechanical difference. Here there are some minor differences.
I'd agree that the enchantment part is the same.

IF the GM is going thematic in your home game create a headband of (mental ability score) out of something thematic to the ability score. The Hardness will vary a bit but it's not a big deal. Have fun.
Putting physical ability scores in the headband (rather than a belt) causes a cost increase as it is a different magic item body slot. see Magic Items.

Special Materials


In the grand scheme of things items are rarely damaged/attacked because:
1) It's a huge feel bad for players to lose their items.
2) Most players don't want to break items that they might sell.
3) It's a pain to do since you have to roll for which item gets targeted then find out what the properties of that item, then find out if the magic has made it tougher than normal.

You are more likely to see a character attempt to steal than actually breaking or destroying.


You can probably sunder on a whirlwind attack.
Yes, GM, after my Demon friend dumped into into a gaggle of Chelish academy students, I am going to whirlwind attack sunder all of their spell component pouches, which I can do while prone because they are weak and feeble. Also, HI NERDS YIELD AND BE RANSOMED!

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