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I really need a 1st or 2nd level Magus class feat that makes reload weapons viable for spellstriking. Recharge + Interact to reload as a single action for example.The thing is, that would make guns objectively better than bows for starlit span maguses. That would effectively get rid of the reload that guns have, and the d10 of the Harmona gun or the d8 with fatal aim d12 of the Jezail is better than the d8 with deadly d10 of the long bow, and they lack the long bows volley trait. I agree there should be more support for guns in general, but it would kinda suck if guns became the objective meta choice
That is an interesting point.
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I really need a 1st or 2nd level Magus class feat that makes reload weapons viable for spellstriking. Recharge + Interact to reload as a single action for example.The thing is, that would make guns objectively better than bows for starlit span maguses. That would effectively get rid of the reload that guns have, and the d10 of the Harmona gun or the d8 with fatal aim d12 of the Jezail is better than the d8 with deadly d10 of the long bow, and they lack the long bows volley trait. I agree there should be more support for guns in general, but it would kinda suck if guns became the objective meta choice
I mean.... so? right now bows are objectively better, I don't see how switching it to be the other way around is a problem, especially given that bows would still have all of the additional versatility for whenever spell strike isn't the awnser
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the thing is, for spell strike currently bows are viable and guns are completely not, if we improved guns, guns would become viable, and better than bows are currently, but bows would still be completely viable, a better option existing (which is only actually better when you crit) does not make your option bad, especially when, like I said, bows would still have all the advantage whenever using your entire turn for one big hit and a recharge is not the play.
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What about a conflux spell that allows you to Interact to reload and then maybe do another minor thing like Stride? Should limit the issue of Spellstrike + recharge that would come up with a non-conflux recharge + reload action.
I mean... limiting functional reload to 1-2 times per fight seems like pretty unfun design to me, I think a baseline reload option of some kind is better, if you want it to be more restrictive maybe make arcane cascade a prerequisite to using the reload action or something
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on a semi related note, can we please just... lose the reload feature on slings? Like, I know that contractually every RPG that is dnd adjacent is obligated to make slings pure garbage, but like, you don't reload a sling anymore than you reload a bow.
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It'd be limiting functional reload compatible with Spellstrikes to 1-2 times per fight.
Doing Spellstrike + conflux, then Spellstrike + reload, then recharge + Spellstrike is still 3 straight rounds of Spellstrike plus the Stride (or whatever the conflux spell ends up giving you), which is about as much as what the bow magus can expect (Stride + Spellstrike, recharge + Spellstrike, recharge + Spellstrike).
If you're opening with a True Strike Spellstrike, then you only get two full rounds before things break down (True Strike + Spellstrike, conflux + Spellstrike), but you'd get the free Stride over the Starlit Span magus (True Strike + Spellstrike, recharge + Spellstrike).
After both these points the gun magus has a harder time, but it's using stronger weapons and Starlit Span is already pretty high up on the power curve; I think it's fair to ask for something in exchange for the higher weapon damage. You're still not that much worse off than a melee magus, who doesn't get the baseline expectation of turreting with Spellstrike every round.
but... only like 4 guns actually have higher than short bow damage and only one has higher than longbow damage, and given that composite bows give the option of adding str to damage, a normal hit from a 0 reload gun will still be less damage than the normal hit with a bow, the only advantage guns have is comes from crits, in 90% of combats if you are spell striking with a gun, you will either not crit so its exactly the same, or you will crit on something that would have died anyway... so its exactly the same, the only situation where the gun is actually better in practice is when you crit against a foe who would not have died to a crit bow spell strike anyway which is already an absurd amount of damage.
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I would also like to point out that by making it a custom action as I proposed, you cannot use conflux spells like bows can. It would also cost a feat, so them being slightly better per hit - if at all - than a bow that needs no feats isn't bad design, that's completely normal. And as Kekkres pointed out, bows are still objectively better for when you don't want to or can't spellstrike, which happens fairly often.
Therefore guns wouldn't actually be a straight upgrade, like bows objectively are currently.
Making it a conflux spell on the other hand is bad design, as walling off viability behind resources other than feats is neither fun nor balanced. You might as well tell the magus to throw their weapon away after 2-3 turns, which is barely a moderate encounter at best. Just no.
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I still don't think giving recharge + interact is very balanced.
I would think we need to look more at the gunslinger class for inspiration on how to get the magus some options.
Honestly, I assume at some point the desire is to spell strike (2 actions), reload, recharge spell strike, so on next round you can be prepared to do it again (if desired). That's normally 4 actions.
But as pointed out, combining recharge and reload into 1 action is a bit too good, at least in my opinion (though this is contentious).
How about a feat that just let's you move and reload. That already exists in the form of running reload.
I get that it's not what some people want, but I think what some people want is a bit imbalanced. You can even get running reload now...it just takes more feats than is maybe reasonable to get.
And what about a add Risky Reload and Risky SpellStrike Reload (OK the name is bad but is easy to understand) feats.
Basically Risky SpellStrike Reload would be a lvl 4 Feat to merge Risky Reload with SpellStrike and pre-requires Risky Reload feat. You can use you 2-actions to Reload and SpellStrike with a firearm but if SpellStrike fails your firearm misfires and you also need to recharge your spellstrike (it's a pretty gamble).
Other option is a Risky Recharge. You interact to reload your firearm and recharge at same time. But in next time you shot with that weapon in with a Strike or SpellStrike and you fail your firearm misfires.
But being honest I don't think that a recharge and reload with same action at cost of a class feat is unbalanced. It's not like firearms was that good at all.
Building Str on a ranged magus is not an insignificant opportunity cost, and firearms can get kickback. A 14-Str magus wielding a harmona gun is doing Xd10+1 instead of Xd6+1. Not sure why the proportion of guns that beat out shortbow matters;
That is definitely a point that Kekkres left out, thank you for adding that; However, you are also leaving some very significant holes. Because the shortbow doesn't only deal d6s, it is d6s plus deadly d10(s), which apparently on a regular martial is extremely slightly below d8 overall. In addition, while handedness is less of an issue at range, the fact remains that the shortbow is 1+ hands, while the harmona gun is 2-handed. The Magus doesn't have the actions to mitigate that via reload even with my custom feat. Lastly, for the harmona gun magus, having 14 STR isn't a choice, but realistically it is a prerequisite.
So for the price of 2 ability boosts, no free hands, (functionally) no conflux spells and a theoretical 2nd level feat, what do we get? Very roughly an average of 1 additional damage per damage die, so 4 at level 19 (!), plus 1 damage from kickback. The harmona gun doesn't even get concussive, which is is the one thing that actually makes guns worth using over bows.
Regarding "you cannot use conflux spells like bows can" - I've found it difficult to fit Shooting Star into the bow magus' routine. Yes, it's "free" relative to simply recharging, but it's a choice between -5 on the Spellstrike or making Shooting Star's Strike at -10. There's Force Fang, but I wouldn't consider it so stellar that it would make the difference between a shortbow and a harmona gun or jezail.
I'm not a fan of Shooting Star either, tbh. Same for most conflux spells, though the rest are actually useful. Force Fang, was the one I was specifically thinking of, though. Because even if a gun magus were viable via my feat, this feat alone would mean bow magus is still better. For example at level 2 [for composite shortbow reasons], Force Fang deals an average of 3.5 damage, meaning you'd need about 3 hits from the harmona gun to get even. At level 5, it'll deal 7 damage, meaning you'd need 5 hits from the gun to get even and so on.
Crits complicate the matter a bit, but I think you get what I want to say. This wouldn't make the gun magus the default, it would just actually make it an option.
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So... I don't have a problem with reload+recharge per se.
The issue is that, from what I hear, Starlit Span in particular really doesn't need the help. They especially don't need help in a way that encourages them to play "spellstrike turret" more than they already do.
And what about a add Risky Reload and Risky SpellStrike Reload (OK the name is bad but is easy to understand) feats.
Basically Risky SpellStrike Reload would be a lvl 4 Feat to merge Risky Reload with SpellStrike and pre-requires Risky Reload feat. You can use you 2-actions to Reload and SpellStrike with a firearm but if SpellStrike fails your firearm misfires and you also need to recharge your spellstrike (it's a pretty gamble).
Other option is a Risky Recharge. You interact to reload your firearm and recharge at same time. But in next time you shot with that weapon in with a Strike or SpellStrike and you fail your firearm misfires.
Generally, you only get 1 action for free via action compression feats. Spellstrike is already Cast a Spell plus Strike, so I seriously doubt they'd ever go down this particular road. Also, as you said, it would be gambling a lot, which should be avoided. This goes for both suggestions. Gunslinger feats are already way too free with that and they get a +2 to their attacks.
But being honest I don't think that a recharge and reload with same action at cost of a class feat is unbalanced. It's not like firearms was that good at all.
Exactly. Guns (and crossbow) are slightly better per hit than bows, but come with a slew of downsides that more than make up for that fact. Concussive is the main upside and even that is situational.
So... I don't have a problem with reload+recharge per se.
The issue is that, from what I hear, Starlit Span in particular really doesn't need the help. They especially don't need help in a way that encourages them to play "spellstrike turret" more than they already do.
Seeing as non-repeating reload weapons are literally not a viable pick on the magus right now, I'd say that is the opposite of "not needing the help".
I'd be all for a more interesting solution than what I proposed, because it it is indeed quite lame and lends itself to a repetitive playstyle. I don't have a better idea, though. That's just 2e reload weapons in a nutshell, unfortunately.
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on a semi related note, can we please just... lose the reload feature on slings? Like, I know that contractually every RPG that is dnd adjacent is obligated to make slings pure garbage, but like, you don't reload a sling anymore than you reload a bow.
Speaking of slings, I'd really like some more options to make use of slings and slingstaff. I know that rigth now every ranged option are bellow bows (exept firearm and crossbow for gunslingers for obvious reasons), but I feel like slings are faring especially bad under this "meta".
Especially the sling staff. Like crossbows they have the 1 action reload (but unlike crossbows there isn't any ways of "loading up" multiple amunitions at once), and they have the 2 hand requirement (despite 1+ making as much sense as it does for bows), but they don't have half as much special amunition or classes/feat that care about them.
Also, I know propulsive is a beneficial trait, but it always annoy me when I see that the emblematic halfling weapon have a trait that punish low strenght (and reward high strenght) in a strenght flaw ancestry.
So... I don't have a problem with reload+recharge per se.
The issue is that, from what I hear, Starlit Span in particular really doesn't need the help. They especially don't need help in a way that encourages them to play "spellstrike turret" more than they already do.
Seeing as non-repeating reload weapons are literally not a viable pick on the magus right now, I'd say that is the opposite of "not needing the help".
I'd be all for a more interesting solution than what I proposed, because it it is indeed quite lame and lends itself to a repetitive playstyle. I don't have a better idea, though. That's just 2e reload weapons in a nutshell, unfortunately.
Non-repeating reload weapons on the magus are not currently viable... but Starlit Span is generally accepted as the strongest hybrid study the Magus has. If we give them a feat that makes rifles (or whatever) into "bow, but better" and they're not strongly feat-constrained, then it's essentially a buff to the starlit span magus in particular... and that's a buff that they really don't need.
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Non-repeating reload weapons on the magus are not currently viable... but Starlit Span is generally accepted as the strongest hybrid study the Magus has. If we give them a feat that makes rifles (or whatever) into "bow, but better" and they're not strongly feat-constrained, then it's essentially a buff to the starlit span magus in particular... and that's a buff that they really don't need.So... I don't have a problem with reload+recharge per se.
The issue is that, from what I hear, Starlit Span in particular really doesn't need the help. They especially don't need help in a way that encourages them to play "spellstrike turret" more than they already do.
Seeing as non-repeating reload weapons are literally not a viable pick on the magus right now, I'd say that is the opposite of "not needing the help".
I'd be all for a more interesting solution than what I proposed, because it it is indeed quite lame and lends itself to a repetitive playstyle. I don't have a better idea, though. That's just 2e reload weapons in a nutshell, unfortunately.
As I demonstrated in the post above, this is a sidegrade for pretty much all intents and purposes, as long as you use a two-handed weapon.
What I failed to mention, though, was that this would allow you to use a reasonable combination of one-handed weapon + staff, which is something bow magi can only do in a limited fashion with an 8th level feat (Fused Staff). The current options are the long air repeater, which is hot garbage and the repeating hand crossbow, which isn't great in terms of per-shot effect either and advanced to boot. Now you could use capacity weapons instead. Neither the rotary bow or slide pistol are amazing, but they are still pretty nice.
Whether that is an actual concern or just a different option? I tend towards the latter, but I'm not fully sure.
As I demonstrated in the post above, this is a sidegrade for pretty much all intents and purposes, as long as you use a two-handed weapon.
What I failed to mention, though, was that this would allow you to use a reasonable combination of one-handed weapon + staff, which is something bow magi can only do in a limited fashion with an 8th level feat (Fused Staff). The current options are the long air repeater, which is hot garbage and the repeating hand crossbow, which isn't great in terms of per-shot effect either and advanced to boot. Now you could use capacity weapons instead. Neither the rotary bow or slide pistol are amazing, but they are still pretty nice.
Whether that is an actual concern or just a different option? I tend towards the latter, but I'm not fully sure.
I admit that I currently don't (and probably won't) have the mental resources to check your numbers one way or the other. At the same time, I cannot claim that it is implausible.
I'll also say that the one-handed thing is probably even less of a concern than you're thinking, as you'd still need some way to reload with one hand full. There are ways to achieve that, but they start requiring enough feats to be a serious cost.
Oh, and on the matter of hand crossbows specifically - I'm not saying that they're great, but if you dip into the Archer archetype, Crossbow Terror can make them a fair bit more worthwhile.
I admit that I currently don't (and probably won't) have the mental resources to check your numbers one way or the other. At the same time, I cannot claim that it is implausible.
I'll also say that the one-handed thing is probably even less of a concern than you're thinking, as you'd still need some way to reload with one hand full. There are ways to achieve that, but they start requiring enough feats to be a serious cost.
Oh, and on the matter of hand crossbows specifically - I'm not saying that they're great, but if you dip into the Archer archetype, Crossbow Terror can make them a fair bit more worthwhile.
I honestly don't know if those numbers are strictly correct either, as I am relying on other people's work in regards to how crits affect expected damage. Deadly d10 being roughly 1 die size seems plausible though and I'm sure it isn't very far off, even if it is inaccurate.
One-handed reloading can be done without feats via capacity weapons - i.e. the rotary bow, slide pistol and maaaybe the pepperbox. Capacity 3 is kinda dubious, though.
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Pointing to how strong Starlit Span is in its current form seems like a stronger argument for just nerfing the hybrid study in general than a specific argument against QoL options for clunky weapons.
Plus... it kind of feels self serving in a sort of "I got mine screw yours" way to fret over the balance implications of someone spending a feat for a slight damage increase while also acknowledging the inherent and severe disparities that already exist. "But think of the bow users" just rings kind of hollow.
The thing is, neither one should be objectively better than the other.
In the provided example, someone is spending a feat (possibly more than one) in order to enable their weapon of choice. So to some extent it absolutely should be better than a build that doesn't need to do that.
Agreed, it would practically be a feat tax, much like Running Reload is for a Ranger. In fact we can use that as a base for when it can be made available to the Magus without breaking much (Level 4-6 feat).
Agreed, it would practically be a feat tax, much like Running Reload is for a Ranger. In fact we can use that as a base for when it can be made available to the Magus without breaking much (Level 4-6 feat).
Running reload doesn't have quite the same benefit for a ranger as a reload + recharge spell strike would for a magus.
Something that would be more similar is if ranger's could combine say hunt prey and reload. Which as far as I'm aware, is not an option.
A ranged ranger doesn't need running reload to function, but it is nice to be able to move and reposition in a fight if it comes up. Otherwise your crossbow rangers are reloading and getting no other benefit.
However, I'm not opposed to letting magi grab Running Reload as a level 4 feat, but it would work exactly as written.
If you ultimately want a feat that will let you reload and recharge as 1 action, I think it's going to be more like a level 10 or 12 feat (at least) to be balanced.
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Risky Reload is already is more closer as a feat tax like reload + recharge would be or more correctly a must have feat.
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However, I'm not opposed to letting magi grab Running Reload as a level 4 feat, but it would work exactly as written.
honestly, given the lack of a generic scaling firearms archetype in the style of archer or mauler (which they really should have had in g&g but whatever) I make running reload available to any character who wants to use firearms as a level 4 feat
However, I'm not opposed to letting magi grab Running Reload as a level 4 feat, but it would work exactly as written.honestly, given the lack of a generic scaling firearms archetype in the style of archer or mauler (which they really should have had in g&g but whatever) I make running reload available to any character who wants to use firearms as a level 4 feat
I think that's reasonable, if the player character has been allowed access to firearms in the first place (normally uncommon) then it's not unreasonable to allow running reload to help deal with the action tax that guns have. However, stride or stepping and reloading isn't nearly the level of benefit that recharge spellstrike + reload is for a magus.
To me it's obvious you can't have a reload benefit that good at such an early level.
Compare it also to the reload options you get from Gunslinger ways, and they're kind of mediocre benefits while also allowing the gunslinger to reload which they absolutely must do.
There's just not any amazing reload + do things options published that I found when looking.
The best one is probably reloading strike, but forces the use of one handed weapons. I'd be willing to maybe allow recharge + reload but of one handed weapons only. People would probably pickup the jezail, but be roughly equivalent to a bow, but at the cost of a feat (although you'd have fatal so minor net benefit above bow).
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I appreciate you trying to find alternative solutions, but Running Reload is functionally worthless on the magus as-is. It doesn't solve the incompatibility of spell strike and reload and as long as that problem exists, nothing will make reload weapons more viable for the class.
I think that's reasonable, if the player character has been allowed access to firearms in the first place (normally uncommon) then it's not unreasonable to allow running reload to help deal with the action tax that guns have. However, stride or stepping and reloading isn't nearly the level of benefit that recharge spellstrike + reload is for a magus.
To me it's obvious you can't have a reload benefit that good at such an early level.
Compare it also to the reload options you get from Gunslinger ways, and they're kind of mediocre benefits while also allowing the gunslinger to reload which they absolutely must do.
There's just not any amazing reload + do things options published that I found when looking.
The best one is probably reloading strike, but forces the use of one handed weapons. I'd be willing to maybe allow recharge + reload but of one handed weapons only. People would probably pickup the jezail, but be roughly equivalent to a bow, but at the cost of a feat (although you'd have fatal so minor net benefit above bow).
The jezail only has fatal when wielded in two hands, so that wouldn't work with your feat idea. It still wouldn't be a terrible weapon to pick for its nice range and concussive, but I question whether that is worth all the downsides plus the feat tax. A capacity weapon would at least allow you to cast from staves, which I think is much more worth it. It is also an actual expansion of your previous capabilities, which is what class feats should be reserved for, imo.
In regards to other reload benefits - yeah, Paizo have shown that they value reload feats/features exorbitantly highly, which I can only explain with niche protection for the gunslinger. Because it sure isn't balancing, as even with reload feats bows still beat all reload weapons. The belief that the gunslinger is a support class isn't coming out of nowhere, even if it is a bit odd.
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The fundamental question is "Is this magus expected to spellstrike every round?"
If they *are* then they have an extremely tight budget for everything else that they might need to do. Spellstrike is two actions, and the third must be spent on something that recharges it. Every round, they get one spellstrike, and whatever secondary effects they can extract from the action that recharges. They still get their reaction, but aside from that, they're done. Runnign Reload isn't spellstrike, and doesn't recharge spellstrike, and is therefore useless.
If they're not, then they can actually do things in their off-rounds for setup. This enables stuff like recharging in the off-round so that you can use True Strike, repositioning, reloading... maybe even activating your other class feature.
The problem is that the "Starlight Span who spellstrikes every round" build is effective, ut it isn't particularly fun or interesting. Each round, you pick which level of nuke to dial to, you pick which enemy to drop the hammer on, and that's it. You're done with your decisions. First round, you're probably using your one unassigned action for the encounter on True Strike. If you get attacked and start having to actually do things that aren't in the tightly constrained combat loop, then that gets frustrating.
Do we want to encourage that playstyle? I kind of think we don't want to encourage that playstyle.
The fundamental question is "Is this magus expected to spellstrike every round?"
If they *are* then they have an extremely tight budget for everything else that they might need to do. Spellstrike is two actions, and the third must be spent on something that recharges it. Every round, they get one spellstrike, and whatever secondary effects they can extract from the action that recharges. They still get their reaction, but aside from that, they're done. Runnign Reload isn't spellstrike, and doesn't recharge spellstrike, and is therefore useless.
If they're not, then they can actually do things in their off-rounds for setup. This enables stuff like recharging in the off-round so that you can use True Strike, repositioning, reloading... maybe even activating your other class feature.
The problem is that the "Starlight Span who spellstrikes every round" build is effective, ut it isn't particularly fun or interesting. Each round, you pick which level of nuke to dial to, you pick which enemy to drop the hammer on, and that's it. You're done with your decisions. First round, you're probably using your one unassigned action for the encounter on True Strike. If you get attacked and start having to actually do things that aren't in the tightly constrained combat loop, then that gets frustrating.
Do we want to encourage that playstyle? I kind of think we don't want to encourage that playstyle.
In my experience, that is exactly what the starlit span magus already does every round. As they have literally no reason to activate Arcane Cascade without higher level feats, it's not like they have much else to do.
It's also not like that isn't a running theme with ranged martials - ranger and ranged fighter only stand there and Strike a million times a turn as well. So that ship has firmly sailed.
Hence why I like the sniper gunslinger. It takes ages to get there, but after about level 9, it is easily the most interesting ranged martial. Because you actually have options that aren't just "Strike x3", so while it is still underpowered, it is actually interesting.
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However, I'm not opposed to letting magi grab Running Reload as a level 4 feat, but it would work exactly as written.honestly, given the lack of a generic scaling firearms archetype in the style of archer or mauler (which they really should have had in g&g but whatever) I make running reload available to any character who wants to use firearms as a level 4 featI think that's reasonable, if the player character has been allowed access to firearms in the first place (normally uncommon) then it's not unreasonable to allow running reload to help deal with the action tax that guns have. However, stride or stepping and reloading isn't nearly the level of benefit that recharge spellstrike + reload is for a magus.
To me it's obvious you can't have a reload benefit that good at such an early level.
Compare it also to the reload options you get from Gunslinger ways, and they're kind of mediocre benefits while also allowing the gunslinger to reload which they absolutely must do.
There's just not any amazing reload + do things options published that I found when looking.
The best one is probably reloading strike, but forces the use of one handed weapons. I'd be willing to maybe allow recharge + reload but of one handed weapons only. People would probably pickup the jezail, but be roughly equivalent to a bow, but at the cost of a feat (although you'd have fatal so minor net benefit above bow).
hmm perhaps as an alternative, perhaps some sort of free action metamagic that would allow a magus to tie a reload into the somatic components of a spell, that would let them reload on their conflux spells, as well as any normal spells they cast, but would not work on the base recharge action (not a spell) or spellstrike itself (which does not work with metamagic)
The fundamental question is "Is this magus expected to spellstrike every round?"
If they *are* then they have an extremely tight budget for everything else that they might need to do. Spellstrike is two actions, and the third must be spent on something that recharges it. Every round, they get one spellstrike, and whatever secondary effects they can extract from the action that recharges. They still get their reaction, but aside from that, they're done. Runnign Reload isn't spellstrike, and doesn't recharge spellstrike, and is therefore useless.
If they're not, then they can actually do things in their off-rounds for setup. This enables stuff like recharging in the off-round so that you can use True Strike, repositioning, reloading... maybe even activating your other class feature.
The problem is that the "Starlight Span who spellstrikes every round" build is effective, ut it isn't particularly fun or interesting. Each round, you pick which level of nuke to dial to, you pick which enemy to drop the hammer on, and that's it. You're done with your decisions. First round, you're probably using your one unassigned action for the encounter on True Strike. If you get attacked and start having to actually do things that aren't in the tightly constrained combat loop, then that gets frustrating.
Do we want to encourage that playstyle? I kind of think we don't want to encourage that playstyle.
Depend from your character role.
If you made Sparkling Targe and your focus is into tank physical and magical attacks, OK! You don't really need to SpellStrike every turn once that you main objective is to resist, call the attention and sometime catch the opportunity to SpellStrike (and keep the attention into you).
But if you are a Starlit Span your main role is probably to be a DPR and you want to do the most damage per round you can even if this means to work like a turret that shots physical+magical attacks without stop.
And don't misunderstand many players will like this. See that you are making enormous amount of damage and your enemies falling in front of you is fun for many players because it's that what they wanted! That's why the complains about do a firearm exist because these magus may feels ineffective.
hmm perhaps as an alternative, perhaps some sort of free action metamagic that would allow a magus to tie a reload into the somatic components of a spell, that would let them reload on their conflux spells, as well as any normal spells they cast, but would not work on the base recharge action (not a spell) or spellstrike itself (which does not work with metamagic)
I'd be all for something in that direction, as that would be much more interesting! That said, this wouldn't work, as all conflux spells and other relevant one-action spells are verbal only. It is also still a large downgrade from the current ability to spellstrike every turn, so it would need more to it.
The fundamental question is "Is this magus expected to spellstrike every round?"
If they *are* then they have an extremely tight budget for everything else that they might need to do. Spellstrike is two actions, and the third must be spent on something that recharges it. Every round, they get one spellstrike, and whatever secondary effects they can extract from the action that recharges. They still get their reaction, but aside from that, they're done. Runnign Reload isn't spellstrike, and doesn't recharge spellstrike, and is therefore useless.
If they're not, then they can actually do things in their off-rounds for setup. This enables stuff like recharging in the off-round so that you can use True Strike, repositioning, reloading... maybe even activating your other class feature.
The problem is that the "Starlight Span who spellstrikes every round" build is effective, ut it isn't particularly fun or interesting. Each round, you pick which level of nuke to dial to, you pick which enemy to drop the hammer on, and that's it. You're done with your decisions. First round, you're probably using your one unassigned action for the encounter on True Strike. If you get attacked and start having to actually do things that aren't in the tightly constrained combat loop, then that gets frustrating.
Do we want to encourage that playstyle? I kind of think we don't want to encourage that playstyle.
I agree. And the melee magus definitely doesn't get to spell strike every round, as presumably there will be times when they need to move to a enemy, recharge, and want to spell strike and obviously they can't.
I don't think the magus power budget should be considered around spell striking every round, but every other round.
So I'm not particularly inclined to give anything that cause a Starlit span magus to turret in place and simply spellstrike, recharge, anymore than the bow using version already can. Even then, the bow starlit span magus needs to not have any negative influences on their turn to have it work the way they want, if you assume they NEED to spell strike every turn.
I think the answer is, they don't. And they shouldn't expect to spell strike every turn.
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I can only echo Squiggit's comment - starlit span magi already have that capability and players tend to use it quite liberally, for obvious reasons. Whether that is actually intended or not is questionable, but that is the current reality. Unless we have concrete dev confirmation that this will change, we have to judge everything on that basis, not a hypothetical scenario.
Therefore, using the "it shouldn't be like that" argument to specifically exclude reload weapons from something the magus is already capable of is just not right.
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I wonder how much free Q&A these sorts of discussions provide the developers if they ever see these. Or if it has no effect at all because they know something we don't about the game.
We actually get dev responses on the boards from time to time, so we know that they at least wander through occasionally. I'm pretty sure that they gain some value in it, though it's often of middling quality.
My guess is that this sort of thing is more useful to them as an indicator of "things to consider looking into" and perhaps "preliminary ideas for ways it could be addressed" than anything further on in the design process. Still, that's not nothing... and from our side, it's still a lot more responsiveness to such things than we've seen out of certain other companies.
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Yeah, we are quite vocal, but they have to consider that we are a rather small minority. Our views on any given topic are also influenced more strongly by the "meta" than those of people not active on here or reddit, which further lowers representativeness. So while feedback usually helps and I'm sure they read it when they can, we should not expect it to be more influential than it has any right to be.
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So I really want a bloodrager, but I've also been thinking about skald.
I know people who want Skald probably want it looking quite similar to the 1e version but I've been wondering if it could benefit from a rebuilding from the ground up like Investigator, Swashbuckler, and others. The images the name conjure up feel different the class it self conjures. It feels like they wanted a combination of bard and barbarian and then pick a name that had a "viking feel." I'm not saying thats bad, I love 1e skald but It was just something I've been thinking about.
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So I really want a bloodrager, but I've also been thinking about skald.
I know people who want Skald probably want it looking quite similar to the 1e version but I've been wondering if it could benefit from a rebuilding from the ground up like Investigator, Swashbuckler, and others. The images the name conjure up feel different the class it self conjures. It feels like they wanted a combination of bard and barbarian and then pick a name that had a "viking feel." I'm not saying thats bad, I love 1e skald but It was just something I've been thinking about.
If it can scratch the Warlord itch of "buffing allies from within the fray," I'm all for it. The 1e Skald's "give the party Rage" gimmick was cool!
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Do we want to encourage that playstyle? I kind of think we don't want to encourage that playstyle.
I mean it's not really a matter of encouraging or discouraging. The playstyle already exists.
And it's not like the firearm build is operating with some sort of unique playstyle here. They're only really different in the ways they're worse.
There are legitimate concerns about whether starlit span, or to some extent the magus class in general, has boring attack routines or is too static in how it plays... but those are more systemic things.
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The thing is, why wouldn't you like something more interesting? Like, you could use a bow to be the stationary turret, or you could use a gun, and utilize some cool reloads or class feats, so while you only spell strike every other round, you are still contributing just as much as a bow magus. Maybe not contributing as much damage wise, but contributing though spells, skills, and non spell strike attacks like every other magus. I really think the "reload when you cast a non spell strike spell" could be really cool, and would make it play differently from all the other maguses as it is encouraged to actually cast spellsI can only echo Squiggit's comment - starlit span magi already have that capability and players tend to use it quite liberally, for obvious reasons. Whether that is actually intended or not is questionable, but that is the current reality. Unless we have concrete dev confirmation that this will change, we have to judge everything on that basis, not a hypothetical scenario.
Therefore, using the "it shouldn't be like that" argument to specifically exclude reload weapons from something the magus is already capable of is just not right.
I absolutely agree that there should be a more interesting solution. The core problem here is that such a solution has to start with being able to spellstrike every round. I know that is dumb, but that is the standard for starlit span magi, and any such magus who cannot meet that standard is objectively inferior. Because bow users can do all the things you mentioned as well.
That's why I call it "the tyranny of spellstrike".
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You don't actually need to spellstrike every round if you're incorporating true strike into your big spellstrikes. Doesn't change the issue that the gun user needs two actions to reload and recharge where the archer only needs one which opens up far more options.
You could probably get away with a merged reload+recharge ability if it came with the caveat of not spellstriking during the turn it is used. Removes the option to go for the spellstrike every turn, and you don't really have the flexibility of attacking on your non-spellstrike turns, but at least it wouldn't be borderline unplayable and you lean into the crit-fish style guns encourage anyway.
You don't actually need to spellstrike every round if you're incorporating true strike into your big spellstrikes. Doesn't change the issue that the gun user needs two actions to reload and recharge where the archer only needs one which opens up far more options.
You could probably get away with a merged reload+recharge ability if it came with the caveat of not spellstriking during the turn it is used. Removes the option to go for the spellstrike every turn, and you don't really have the flexibility of attacking on your non-spellstrike turns, but at least it wouldn't be borderline unplayable and you lean into the crit-fish style guns encourage anyway.
I like this idea, agreeing for reload + recharge but can't spell strike. I'm good with that. You could even flavor it as using residual magical energy to reload, similar to arcane cascade.
I'd also be open to an option (possibly the same one) allowing a bullet to be reused if it missed. Magically being transported back into the chamber, ready to go.