dwarf vs duergar

[MR CRITICAL]

can a duergar be an cleric(forgemaster) even tho it says dwarf???

[Lelomenia]

Duergar have Type: humanoid (dwarf), so yes, they meet dwarfy prereqs.

[MR CRITICAL]

r u sure???

[Heather 540]

Yes. Duergars are a type of dwarf.

[Ryze Kuja]

Duergar wrote:

Type: Duergar are humanoids with the dwarf subtype.

Duergar 8 RP

An argument can be made that Duergar are not dwarves, but rather humanoids with the dwarf subtype. Although, I personally would not make that argument. I'd say that Duergar can indeed by Forgemasters, but I would ask your GM.

[Warped Savant]

MR CRITICAL wrote:

can a duergar be an cleric(forgemaster) even tho it says dwarf???

Yes, they count as dwarves unless your GM says no.

[Ryze Kuja]

To be fair, Dwarves are also considered "Humanoids with the dwarf subtype" as well. So, this lends even more credence that a Duergar indeed qualifies for Forgemaster per RAW, as well as other effects that affect Dwarves only, such as Bane weapon enchants.

[Diego Rossi]

Bestiary wrote:

Duergar

This bald, long-bearded dwarf has dull gray skin, low arching
brows, and eyes that seem to absorb rather than reflect the light.
...
Cousins to dwarves, duergar are foul-tempered creatures that loathe intruders to their underground realms—but not nearly as much as they do their kinfolk closer to the surface.

Advanced Race Guide wrote:

Dwarves and duergar once were one race, but the dwarves left the deeps for their mountain strongholds.

Duergar still consider themselves the only true dwarves, and the rightful heirs of all beneath the world’s surface.

I would say that for all purposes Duregar count as Dwarves.

[Melkiador]

Duergar being dwarves is technically correct. The best kind of correct.

[Name Violation]

All duergar are dwarves
Not all dwarves are duergar

[SheepishEidolon]

Advanced Race Guide, page 5 wrote:

But races are not all about racial traits and favored class rewards. Each of the core races comes from a vibrant culture with its own history, norms, and adventuring outlooks. To represent this, each race’s entry presents a number of new character options, such as race-specific archetypes, adventuring equipment, feats, magic items, and spells.

Race-specific archetypes, not type-specific. So by RAW duergar can't take dwarf archetypes.

[vhok]

SheepishEidolon wrote:

Advanced Race Guide, page 5 wrote:

But races are not all about racial traits and favored class rewards. Each of the core races comes from a vibrant culture with its own history, norms, and adventuring outlooks. To represent this, each race’s entry presents a number of new character options, such as race-specific archetypes, adventuring equipment, feats, magic items, and spells.

Race-specific archetypes, not type-specific. So by RAW duergar can't take dwarf archetypes.

not true at all. half elves/orcs count as human and elf/orc for archetype requirements.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Half elves also have a racial trait that specifically states they count as both an elf and a human for any effected related to race.

Personally I have no problem with a duergar counting as a dwarf. The first line in the description in the bestiary calls them a dwarf.

Duergar

This bald, long-bearded dwarf has dull gray skin, low arching brows, and eyes that seem to absorb rather than reflect the light.

[Java Man]

If having the (dwarf) subtype qualifies you for "dwarf only" options, how does one qualify for a duergar or drow only options, since there are not duergar or drow subtypes? Is it that subtype is required unless there is no subtype, and then you must have the specific term used to describe your race?

Or maybe all race limited options are limited to only that specific race.

[Melkiador]

Advanced Race Guide p217:

Quote:

Subtypes are often important to qualify for other racial abilities and feats. If a humanoid has a racial subtype, it is considered a member of that race in the case of race prerequisites.

[Java Man]

Okay, looks like my drow Lantern Lighter/Treesinger is a go!

[Temperans]

If you specify a specific subtype then only that specific subtype can get it. Ex: If something specifies drow, then an elf cannot get it. But drow can get things that just say elf. Its also why Half-elf/orc have exclusive options not available to elf/orc or humans.

For example: A half drow/half-human counts as an elf, a drow, and a human. They can also take racial heritage to become another subtype meaning at least 4 subtypes for better or worse.

[Ryze Kuja]

Melkiador wrote:

Advanced Race Guide p217:

Quote:

Subtypes are often important to qualify for other racial abilities and feats. If a humanoid has a racial subtype, it is considered a member of that race in the case of race prerequisites.

^---- here's your hard proof answer that Duergar can be Forgemasters

[MR CRITICAL]

SO DROW COUNT AS WELL 'ISNT THAT THE PURPOSE Of A SUBTYPE ??

[Warped Savant]

MR CRITICAL wrote:

SO DROW COUNT AS WELL 'ISNT THAT THE PURPOSE Of A SUBTYPE ??

Drow count as elves, yes.