War is coming and I'm all for it! Especially a villain themed campaign!
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Exactly. In the Inner Sea, I would say that the great powers are Absalom, Andoran, Cheliax, Geb, Nex, Qadira, and Taldor.
As far as it goes, Paizo practically giftwrapped us their view of who the Inner Sea Region's Great Powers were between about 4708 and 4712 with the national Factions in Pathfinder society at the time: Andoran, Cheliax, Osirion, Qadira, and Taldor. What's more, these factions were framed as jockeying for political influence in Absalom which played the role of Cold War Vienna and was thus implicitly excluded as a Great Power. Regime and policy changes in Absalom make it a somewhat different beast as of 4719 relative to 4708, but I don't think they have elevated it to a Great Power - the events of 4717 make it pretty clear that Kortos remains an arena for intervention by other powers rather than a secure base for Absalom to project power outwards. I also don't think that Osirion has fallen out of the ranks of Great Powers - Khemet's policy has vacillated between aggression and isolation over the years, but forbearance as to the use of power does not diminish the significance of its existence.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Exactly. In the Inner Sea, I would say that the great powers are Absalom, Andoran, Cheliax, Geb, Nex, Qadira, and Taldor.As far as it goes, Paizo practically giftwrapped us their view of who the Inner Sea Region's Great Powers were between about 4708 and 4712 with the national Factions in Pathfinder society at the time: Andoran, Cheliax, Osirion, Qadira, and Taldor. What's more, these factions were framed as jockeying for political influence in Absalom which played the role of Cold War Vienna and was thus implicitly excluded as a Great Power. Regime and policy changes in Absalom make it a somewhat different beast as of 4719 relative to 4708, but I don't think they have elevated it to a Great Power - the events of 4717 make it pretty clear that Kortos remains an arena for intervention by other powers rather than a secure base for Absalom to project power outwards. I also don't think that Osirion has fallen out of the ranks of Great Powers - Khemet's policy has vacillated between aggression and isolation over the years, but forbearance as to the use of power does not diminish the significance of its existence.
We also got that 2e fiction piece that claims even the Successor States of Tian Xia are jockeying for influence in Absalom. It seems to be more of a stage for the other powers than a power in its own right.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
As much as I love Osirion, I think its claim to Great Power status is pretty weak. It dabbled in Absalom politics for a while, but as I understand its faction there had to go independent when its leader resigned in scandal after accidentally cursing the Ruby Prince. They're now more interested in recovering Ancient Osiriani heritage and preventing its continued looting. It was going through a military buildup pre-4714, but it has no apparent overseas possessions it could want, no alliances for it to come to aid, no reason to like any of the other Great Powers any more than the others, and it may still be recovering from a bunch of flying pyramids crashing down near every city, disgorging hordes of aberrations, undead and fiends. It's only a Great Power if by that you mean it's the more economically and militarily powerful and populous nation in Northern Garund, and other than its neighbours Thuvia and Katapesh, maybe Rahadoum if it got annoyed enough by their stance on divinity interrupting their ability to do trade it stands no real chance against more powerful nations in that club like Taldor or Qadira. A Great Power by default. As for Absalom, as its ill-fated Freedom Corps shows it has the potential to project power if it wanted to, quite far in fact - it was interfering in Vudran politics catastrophically enough for Vudra to sail an imperial fleet to properly express its anger, a feat only matched by Taldor's Sixth Army of Exploration which planted Amanandar. It just remains to be seen whether, in an era where its neighbours are still vulnerable, it wants to carve that niche out for itself. My guess would be no, but it's possible, especially since the Starstone still exists there as a catalyst until it canonically gets shot into space some time in the distant future before The Gap.
I think Cheliax being involved is a fairly safe bet - Cheliax NEEDS to pick a fight against someone, and soon, to arrest its downward slide into imperial irrelevance. The Thrune dynasty has a stronger grip on the country than ever, but it's vulnerable. It's just a matter of who would be a better adversary - Andoran, which has similar interests in Arcadia and is fairly close, as well as historically Chelaxian territory; or Taldor, looking to improve its image across the Inner Sea, knock out a naval rival, restore some of the old Pax Taldaris and shore up its rear flank in case Qadira ever agitates more aggressively. A war with Rahadoum, securing the Arch of Aroden and retaking Khari, ranks a distant third in terms of likelihood I think, but is still something I'd be down for. A proxy-war in Varisia against New Thassilon ranks a very faint fourth.
After that, any other speculation probably belongs in a very different threat than this one.
.
|
|
A Great Power by default.
Every Great Powers club needs its Prussia (1815-1878)/Italy (1878-1945)/France (1945-1982)/Britain (1982-present) :V
I don't see a full Great Power conflict developing between Cheliax and Taldor that excludes Andoran, simply because amphibious operations across large stretches of open water are hard, even with magic.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It does seem likely that if Cheliax and Andor do get involved in the kerfuffle they've been foreshadowing for a while, then Andor's going to aggressively make the sales pitch of "hey, you should help us out" to anybody and everybody but especially Taldor. After all, in terms of "being able to sell a military operation to ones public" there's little that ranks higher than "they are literal devil worshipers coming to oppress us because they hate freedom."
I'm not sure how enthusiastic Taldor would be in support of Andoran, but I think they would at least make a token effort of support until riled up further. I mean, they'd be a lot more help to Andoran than Ravounel or Nidal is to Cheliax, at least.
|
It does seem likely that if Cheliax and Andor do get involved in the kerfuffle they've been foreshadowing for a while, then Andor's going to aggressively make the sales pitch of "hey, you should help us out" to anybody and everybody but especially Taldor. After all, in terms of "being able to sell a military operation to ones public" there's little that ranks higher than "they are literal devil worshipers coming to oppress us because they hate freedom."
I'm not sure how enthusiastic Taldor would be in support of Andoran, but I think they would at least make a token effort of support until riled up further. I mean, they'd be a lot more help to Andoran than Ravounel or Nidal is to Cheliax, at least.
I find it extremely unlikely that Cheliax would start a war right now, precisely because almost everyone would jump to the rescue of Andoran.
Now, if Andoran was starting the war, things would be less clear-cut.
Ravounel would try for absolute neutrality. I don't see them helping Andoran unless a decisive victory that deposed the Thrunes was assured. The only reason they would help Cheliax is if a) Andoran was indeed the aggressor, and b) they were forced to accept a mutual defense pact. Anything else would alienate their allies and bring them back into Cheliax's orbit, two things they desperately wish to avoid. It's the other countries who broke away from Cheliax who would be a problem. Vidrian and Galt would help Andoran to the best of their ability (at sea and on land respectively), and fear of the lich and/or Oprak is the only thing that might keep Molthune from doing the same. Cheliax beating Andoran is a threat to all of them even if Cheliax doesn't conquer it.
Ravounel is contractually obligated to support Cheliax in account of war. However, they're broke and they're ideologically opposed to Cheliax so they're going to offer as little help as they can get away with.
Nidal simply would never help anybody except Nidal.
Isger is a vassal state of Cheliax, but simply couldn't offer much in the way of help. In fact, the Isgeri committing on any grand scale would start to give Molthune and Oprak ideas.
Cheliax simply doesn't have a lot of allies on this side of Hell. They have considerable allies in Hell, but Asmodeus doesn't give anything away for free.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I don't see a full Great Power conflict developing between Cheliax and Taldor that excludes Andoran, simply because amphibious operations across large stretches of open water are hard, even with magic.
I didn't mean to suggest it would exclude Andoran - any conflict between Cheliax and Taldor is likely to draw in a LOT of their neighbours, however reluctantly - only that in such a war, Taldor would be the principal opponent. Andoran would probably leap quite enthusiastically to screw with Cheliax while it's mostly focussed on a larger, more powerful enemy, especially if it leaves Taldor's crumbling byzantine aristocracy vulnerable to democratic reformers and/or revolutionaries.
It does seem likely that if Cheliax and Andor do get involved in the kerfuffle they've been foreshadowing for a while, then Andor's going to aggressively make the sales pitch of "hey, you should help us out" to anybody and everybody but especially Taldor. After all, in terms of "being able to sell a military operation to ones public" there's little that ranks higher than "they are literal devil worshipers coming to oppress us because they hate freedom."
I'm not sure how enthusiastic Taldor would be in support of Andoran, but I think they would at least make a token effort of support until riled up further. I mean, they'd be a lot more help to Andoran than Ravounel or Nidal is to Cheliax, at least.
Purely politically, setting aside the moral issues, it's not really in Taldor's interests to help Andoran win, nor is it to allow them to lose. It doesn't want a muscular democracy on its borders given their history of interfering in domestic affairs, especially with the example of Galt5 to show what happens when democracy gets used to violence, nor does it want a resurgent imperial Cheliax. But at the very least, Taldor would want to ensure Cheliax doesn't conquer Andoran. The same could probably be said of Absalom - Andoran has made its business messing with international shipping for long enough its ships were banned from Absalom for a long while and Chellish and Andoren sailors routinely cause brawls in Absalom's dockyards, and after memories of the Virtue Corps (I got the name wrong earlier) I doubt other places are eager to see a reformist government with an expeditionary foreign policy that would absolutely want to "export democracy." As they say, better the devil (worshippers) you know.
Actual in-depth coverage of the lesser orders of Hellknights. Especially fixing Order of the Torrent's inability to gain their iconic "Seek the Taken" from 1E.
I think Cheliax being involved is a fairly safe bet - Cheliax NEEDS to pick a fight against someone, and soon, to arrest its downward slide into...
I tend to think the new crisis with Tar-Baphon in the inner sea probably provides the "fight" Cheliax needs right now. Cheliax has just tone through to many crises lately to start a fight with any major power. It needs to regrow its strength, and being a major supporter of a Anti-Tar-Baphon alliance allows them to do that.
|
|
I tend to think the new crisis with Tar-Baphon in the inner sea probably provides the "fight" Cheliax needs right now. Cheliax has just tone through to many crises lately to start a fight with any major power. It needs to regrow its strength, and being a major supporter of a Anti-Tar-Baphon alliance allows them to do that.
Unfortunately for Cheliax, it doesn't control all the other international actors, and no one is under any obligation to let it pursue its policy preferences. Or not to aggress against it.
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Tar-baphon as a lich has practically forever to put his plans into motion so he could just go dormant long enough to fit a war in. Or does the lore indicate he is particularly active at the moment?
He ended 1e by breaking out of his prison, destroying the nation of Lastwall, and laying siege to Absalom. He’s actively picking fights with Belkzen and threatens pretty much all of Avistab.
On top of that, while Tar-Baphon is a lich, and could therefore wait hundreds of years for his plans to bloom, Tar-Baphon is also Tar-Baphon, and Tar-Baphon is famously petty, peevish, and overconfident to the point that it's meme-worthy.Tar-baphon as a lich has practically forever to put his plans into motion so he could just go dormant long enough to fit a war in. Or does the lore indicate he is particularly active at the moment?He ended 1e by breaking out of his prison, destroying the nation of Lastwall, and laying siege to Absalom. He’s actively picking fights with Belkzen and threatens pretty much all of Avistab.
I've seen him compared to Skeletor. It's not untrue.
In roughly a month I'm going to start a new group w/ PF2e and run The Fall of Plaguestone as the groups intro to 2e. Knowing that Etran's Folly is in or near Isger, I'd love some additional information on Isger, maybe seeing Etran's Folly on an updated map (just for a point of reference).
But a lot of what everyone has offered or suggested is certainly very interesting.
Tar-Baphon as Skeletor makes it so much harder to take him seriously.I've seen him compared to Skeletor. It's not untrue.On top of that, while Tar-Baphon is a lich, and could therefore wait hundreds of years for his plans to bloom, Tar-Baphon is also Tar-Baphon, and Tar-Baphon is famously petty, peevish, and overconfident to the point that it's meme-worthy.Tar-baphon as a lich has practically forever to put his plans into motion so he could just go dormant long enough to fit a war in. Or does the lore indicate he is particularly active at the moment?He ended 1e by breaking out of his prison, destroying the nation of Lastwall, and laying siege to Absalom. He’s actively picking fights with Belkzen and threatens pretty much all of Avistab.
But his putdowns are EPIC! (Wait, this is Pathfinder) But his putdowns are MYTHIC!
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
But his putdowns are EPIC! (Wait, this is Pathfinder) But his putdowns are MYTHIC!Tar-Baphon as Skeletor makes it so much harder to take him seriously.I've seen him compared to Skeletor. It's not untrue.On top of that, while Tar-Baphon is a lich, and could therefore wait hundreds of years for his plans to bloom, Tar-Baphon is also Tar-Baphon, and Tar-Baphon is famously petty, peevish, and overconfident to the point that it's meme-worthy.Tar-baphon as a lich has practically forever to put his plans into motion so he could just go dormant long enough to fit a war in. Or does the lore indicate he is particularly active at the moment?He ended 1e by breaking out of his prison, destroying the nation of Lastwall, and laying siege to Absalom. He’s actively picking fights with Belkzen and threatens pretty much all of Avistab.
I hear his voice as Mr. Torgue from Borderlands.
|
|
I'm pretty sure they have cannons. They just don't have guns.Guns and gears implies that their cannons and guns are either bought from alkenstar or confiscated from the pirates which just seems weird to me.
I guess the approval process is stuck in some layer of Hell.
Deniable assets might be tasked with advancing the timetable or ensuring the required stamps are forever lost, depending on their sponsor.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
It could also be a genre conceit. Age of Sail pirate fiction has cannons in it, ergo, pirates should have cannons for people who want to play that flavor of fiction. I could be totally wrong but isn't Alkenstar fairly landlocked?
Also--and again, I could be wrong--I think that making a functional cannon is easier than making a functional man-portable firearm.
Even assuming that to be true, Cheliax pretty clearly does not have significant cannon production and does not buy significant quantities of cannon on the world market. As far as I can tell, the Chelish fleet of forty-seven ships in From Hell's Heart has not a single cannon between them. Furthermore, much of the plot of Wrath of Thrune consists of building a magic fireball engine with a highly-involved magical ritual, that could be fairly trivially replaced by an artillery battery if the Thrune forces had one. It seems reasonable to say they do not.
Fair, but I wasn't addressing why Cheliax might have cannon, but rather why assorted pirates might.Even assuming that to be true, Cheliax pretty clearly does not have significant cannon production and does not buy significant quantities of cannon on the world market. As far as I can tell, the Chelish fleet of forty-seven ships in From Hell's Heart has not a single cannon between them. Furthermore, much of the plot of Wrath of Thrune consists of building a magic fireball engine with a highly-involved magical ritual, that could be fairly trivially replaced by an artillery battery if the Thrune forces had one. It seems reasonable to say they do not.It could also be a genre conceit. Age of Sail pirate fiction has cannons in it, ergo, pirates should have cannons for people who want to play that flavor of fiction. I could be totally wrong but isn't Alkenstar fairly landlocked?
Also--and again, I could be wrong--I think that making a functional cannon is easier than making a functional man-portable firearm.
Shackles pirates probably wouldn't get cannons from Alkenstar. The cannons would have to travel overland or take a very long trip by sea, and that's if the pirates were able to somehow trick Alkenstar into selling them. If a nation like Cheliax can't do that, I doubt the pirates could. It's much more likely that they got their cannons from Arcadian ships, one way or another (probably "another," given the whole piracy thing).
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Shackles pirates probably wouldn't get cannons from Alkenstar. The cannons would have to travel overland or take a very long trip by sea, and that's if the pirates were able to somehow trick Alkenstar into selling them. If a nation like Cheliax can't do that, I doubt the pirates could. It's much more likely that they got their cannons from Arcadian ships, one way or another (probably "another," given the whole piracy thing).
We don't need to speculate - Guns & Gears talks extensively about this.
Vidrian does a lot of trade with Alkenstar for guns and cannons, which Shackles pirates not only steal in daring raids, but also via a number of well-placed infiltrators in both nations. Inferior reverse-engineered weapons are produced for the Free Captains by Motaku Isle Ironworks, goblin designs that are notoriously unreliable.
It also says that the Chelaxian navy has seized several cannon-carrying pirate ships and used them as a template to build an anti-pirate naval squadron operation in the Arcadian Ocean.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Plus Alkenstar is a long long way from Cheliax if you look at a map. Basically everybody from here to there would prefer Cheliax not have an ordinance advantage (particularly since Andoran probably maintains naval superiority due to their timber reserves and shipyards), and that's assuming that Alkenstar would be falling all over itself in order to sell canons to the diabolists which they most certainly are not. If they wanted to sell guns to evil people who mean them harm in the long run, they can look directly north or south.
I'm curious about the trade route from Alkenstar to Vidrian, you could go over the largely impassable mountains and through some pretty thick jungle overland, or you could sail all the way around Southern Garund (which might be safer, but it's a loooong journey.)
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Plus Alkenstar is a long long way from Cheliax if you look at a map. Basically everybody from here to there would prefer Cheliax not have an ordinance advantage (particularly since Andoran probably maintains naval superiority due to their timber reserves and shipyards), and that's assuming that Alkenstar would be falling all over itself in order to sell canons to the diabolists which they most certainly are not. If they wanted to sell guns to evil people who mean them harm in the long run, they can look directly north or south.
I'm curious about the trade route from Alkenstar to Vidrian, you could go over the largely impassable mountains and through some pretty thick jungle overland, or you could sail all the way around Southern Garund (which might be safer, but it's a loooong journey.)
LO Travel Guide and one of the Blood Lords volumes both talk about that route; you basically either cross over (Ndele Gap) or under (Kulenett "highways") the mountains from Alkenstar, then hop a riverboat to get to Kibwe or further into the Mwangi Expanse. It sounds like a lot of fun for a caravan guards campaign!
|
|
What are you talking about? A warship by the rules as written at that time had 20 direct-fire large siege engines (light balista or cannon). The map for that AP shows the ship as having 20 cannons. So what do you mean that that they didn't have cannons?
From Hell's Heart notes that of the ships appearing in it, only Filthy Lucre has cannon. Page 8 notes that "firearms won't have much of an effect on the fleet battle with the Chelish armada in Part 1." Pages 8 through 18 describing the said fleet battle armada don't include the word "cannon" (except that page 18 includes it in describing the next section's cannon golem, which has nothing to do with the Chelish armada). The description of the Chelish flagship Abrogail's Fury on page 16, however, describes two light ballistae on the foredeck, a further two on the quarterdeck, and a heavy ballista on the poop deck; further, the map of her deck on page 15 shows the same five ballistae, no cannon on deck, and no muzzles protruding from gunports belowdecks. Nor are cannon visible on the Chelish warships pictured on page 6. This is in stark contrast to the map of Filthy Lucre on page 40, where cannon are very much in evidence. QED, the Chelish fleet didn't carry cannon.
As for the magical fireball cannon, a fun quirk of the system at the time was that you could set up magical traps to shoot infinitely with a 1 minute cooldown. Yeah they are going to try to develop that and build it into every ship. Just imagine a full armada of ships that can just shoot strong magic at will instead of being limited by having to carry ammunition and propellant.
The materials (including the blood of a hundred innocents, the recently defiled waters of a holy site, and the ashes of truly-recorded history) and skilled labor required to create a tathlum are immensely more scarce (and the materials in particular are used up a lot faster) than those required to create cannon. So much so that cannon must be much cheaper than tathlums, and if a rational state could purchase the former (whether from domestic producers or on the world market), they would. Abrogail may take aesthetic pleasure in defilement and cruelty, but she is not wholly irrational and neither is the abstracted Chelish state. And yet we see no cannon in evidence at decisive battles of the 4715 - 17 civil war. QED, Cheliax does not have a significant firearms-production industry, and does not purchase significant quantities of cannon on the world market.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
G&G ends its section on firearms in The Shackles by noting that Cheliax, Rahadoum, and Vidrian "many Motaku cannons and firearms" have wound up in the hands of their own navies, seized from pirate vessels. Even if that particular gunworks produces shoddy weapons, understanding of the technology is clearly spreading across the major naval powers of the western seaboard.
Given the nation's youth, fondness for Lubaiko, and canon (heh) trade with Alkenstar, we know Vidrian's embraced cannons for the bulk of their navy. Cheliax, as stated above, has focused their guns into an elite anti-pirate squadron. G&G tells us that the average Free Captain has a few cannons on their ship "if they're lucky," with knowledge of them proliferating from Motaku Isle. While mostly a curiosity for now, Rahadoum has some of the keenest academics, chemists, and engineers in the Inner Sea; between confiscated designs and old Jistkan knowledge, I bet they can make some incredible guns eventually - but the military hasn't been presented as a major Rahadoumi priority so far. It even says that Ulfen raiders have grown to loathe Chelish cannons, ramming their ships on sight rather than risking gunfire.
While not omnipresent yet, I bet anyone sailing the Arcadian Ocean nowadays has at least *heard* of a cannon by now.
|
|
G&G ends its section on firearms in The Shackles by noting that Cheliax, Rahadoum, and Vidrian "many Motaku cannons and firearms" have wound up in the hands of their own navies, seized from pirate vessels. Even if that particular gunworks produces shoddy weapons, understanding of the technology is clearly spreading across the major naval powers of the western seaboard.
Incidental capture of cannon (and shot, and powder) does not even come close to approaching the reliability or scale of domestic production or purchase on the world market, and this dearth can be seen from the concentration of all available such in one squadron (a squadron being less than a dozen ships).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
G&G ends its section on firearms in The Shackles by noting that Cheliax, Rahadoum, and Vidrian "many Motaku cannons and firearms" have wound up in the hands of their own navies, seized from pirate vessels. Even if that particular gunworks produces shoddy weapons, understanding of the technology is clearly spreading across the major naval powers of the western seaboard.Incidental capture of cannon (and shot, and powder) does not even come close to approaching the reliability or scale of domestic production or purchase on the world market, and this can be seen from the concentration of all available such in one squadron (a squadron being less than a dozen ships).
Ah, "squadron" wasn't a direct quote - here's the actual text:
The Chelaxian navy eventually captured one of these vessels and slowly adopted the weaponry for itself, concentrating its few cannon-armed ships in small, elite, anti-pirate flotillas scouring the Arcadian Ocean.
Building several flotillas from the study of one ship certainly sounds like they have their own production up and running.
|
|
Ah, "squadron" wasn't a direct quote - here's the actual text:
The Chelaxian navy eventually captured one of these vessels and slowly adopted the weaponry for itself, concentrating its few cannon-armed ships in small, elite, anti-pirate flotillas scouring the Arcadian Ocean.Building several flotillas from the study of one ship certainly sounds like they have their own production up and running.
That is a rather different picture, yes.
(Although, same source, it's Shackles ships that Ulfen ships tend to ram, not Chelish ones.)
|
|
Ravounel is contractually obligated to support Cheliax in account of war. However, they're broke and they're ideologically opposed to Cheliax so they're going to offer as little help as they can get away with.
The Silver Ravens also may have negotiated an exception to the mutual defense pact - Breaking the Bones of Hell specifically calls out Taldor and Andoran as states to which such an exception might apply. Also, "broke" is overstating things - Ravounel is not in arrears, it can tax the people sufficiently to fund its state budget and has access to domestic and international credit. It is simply not a rich country. Small GDP, positive balance of payments.
|
|
LO Travel Guide and one of the Blood Lords volumes both talk about that route; you basically either cross over (Ndele Gap) or under (Kulenett "highways") the mountains from Alkenstar, then hop a riverboat to get to Kibwe or further into the Mwangi Expanse. It sounds like a lot of fun for a caravan guards campaign!Plus Alkenstar is a long long way from Cheliax if you look at a map. Basically everybody from here to there would prefer Cheliax not have an ordinance advantage (particularly since Andoran probably maintains naval superiority due to their timber reserves and shipyards), and that's assuming that Alkenstar would be falling all over itself in order to sell canons to the diabolists which they most certainly are not. If they wanted to sell guns to evil people who mean them harm in the long run, they can look directly north or south.
I'm curious about the trade route from Alkenstar to Vidrian, you could go over the largely impassable mountains and through some pretty thick jungle overland, or you could sail all the way around Southern Garund (which might be safer, but it's a loooong journey.)
Under the mountains seems the best bet to me.
|
|
10+ years ago the cheliax armada was fitted with balistas while some specific ships had cannons. There is no reason why cheliax would not have cannons in their armada by now. Wether its confiscated from pirates, bought from another country, developed from their own inventors, or created by their casters.
10 years sounds like a short time, but technology advances quickly and the military is one of the fastest producer of technology. Also making a cannon is not incredibly difficult, the biggest issue is making sure it doesn't explode, but that is a matter of trial and error that can be accelerated from reverse engineering a captured cannon.
You claimed specifically that the fleet of 4712 carried about 20 cannon apiece. The claim that certain other Chelish ships may or may not carry cannon as of 4723 is different, for all that it is easier to defend.
You also claimed that Cheliax would have a program to fit tathlums on every ship before admitting that they were rare. And supernatural effects of tathlums aside, cannon deal 6d6 damage apiece in 1E and accordingly a battery of four reliably outdamages a tathlum. To compare the latter with a nuclear weapon of any yield is a gross overstatement.
|
|
Also are you really going to say that they will make an air to ground anti-population bomb and then place it on all their boats in the middle of the ocean?
You said that. I said such a program was far too expensive to be feasible, that a program to arm their ships with cannon would be much cheaper, and that the domestic production or international trade to support even that much cheaper program was not in evidence.