Beckett99's page

Is it me or does the way ravounel got their independence show how culturally chelish they are? Cause they abused a legal technicality until a new nation came out which seems very chelish to me.

What do you think happened to chelish sailors and soldiers from kintargo and the rest of Ravounel? Would the duchies rebellion have affected them?

Beckett99 wrote:

zimmerwald1915 wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Why they keep putting lore in lore books is a mystery for the ages :P

I suppose it's a bit much to expect from a setting that ballooned the length of the Terror from three to forty years, but uprisings don't actually tend to last very long - either overthrowing the government or being suppressed - unless backed far more strongly by foreign powers than Andoran is doing (the Firebrands are a comparative nonfactor and can be discounted). I simply don't buy a long-running Katapeshi Civil War as part of the setting's status quo, as opposed to a brief episode leading to a changed status quo.

The terror wasn't a single uprising it was decades of back to back uprisings happening one after another that the outside world lumped together.

If you mean the French Terror, you might want to check Wikipedia. It was not decades-long.

He only referred to the Terror and I had forgotten the specific name name of the galtan revolution so I accidentally called the red revolution the red terror in my head

keftiu wrote:

Why they keep putting lore in lore books is a mystery for the ages :P

I suppose it's a bit much to expect from a setting that ballooned the length of the Terror from three to forty years, but uprisings don't actually tend to last very long - either overthrowing the government or being suppressed - unless backed far more strongly by foreign powers than Andoran is doing (the Firebrands are a comparative nonfactor and can be discounted). I simply don't buy a long-running Katapeshi Civil War as part of the setting's status quo, as opposed to a brief episode leading to a changed status quo.

The terror wasn't a single uprising it was decades of back to back uprisings happening one after another that the outside world lumped together.

She could push for the strengthening of central bureaucracy which would directly undermine the rights and privileges of the nobles and she could expand the civil services and draw more of its members from the lower Classes undermining the role of hereditary power in the central government.

Cultivation is mentioned in Quain do you think that is how they refer to class levels or do you think it something unique to Quain?

I think the linvarre push for democracy is weird why would taldans who have an antagonistic history with democracy and tiens who as far as I am aware have no native concepts of democracy use the system I would have thought it would be more like the Mongols or Manchu after they conquered china and made use of native institutions and cultural norms

Phillip Gastone wrote:

Well they are rather rude to others. Plus why should we show devils respect when they keep messing with us?

Because they are higher level ?

That is no reason to respect those who wish you subjugation and enslavement. If you must be polite give the minimum demanded by etiquette and no more.

I was watching a video about the hellknights and was wondering do we have information on the chelish prison system like famous prisons, what are the conditions in prison and are dissidents keep separate from common criminals or are they all held together? Any mention of the use of prison labor?

Want Irorans who perform civic duties educating people? They run the public schools in

I vaguely remember reading somewhere that they get called on the mediate the disputes of other churches sometimes.

Garrett Guillotte wrote:

- The Iroran Sacred Order of Archivists defend written history from revisionists and propagandists (including those glory-seeking Pathfinders!), and were a lynchpin of Hell's Rebels.

Eh. They all died in the backstory, and their being Iroran specifically wasn't all that foundational to their praxis (hoarding and cataloguing objects in a secret dungeon).

They were in a nation full of state censors and book burners what else could they do with the knowledge they collected publish it and get themselves executed?

Something I want to know is how to the various lands of tian xia perceive the avistani, garundi, vudrani, and keleshite. Like what stereotypes do they hold about them are they positive or negative and to what extent the various nations interact with the other continents if at all.

Is Galt even a democracy I mean they say they are but they seesawed between dictatorship and anarchy for decades do they have any functioning democratic institutions left? I mean for most of galts history as an independent state the only stable institution was a worm worshipping murder cult.

keftiu wrote:

Please, give me Hellknights as the tax service. I'm begging you.

When it could be an actual state bureaucracy rather than farmed off to mercenary contractors? Seems like a low-state-capacity thing to do.

Nothing stops hellknights from being state employees just make a minor order that is part of cheliaxs tax bureau.

Would this also include things like honorary membership in things like national academic institutions?

Beckett99 wrote:

Does this mean families with foreign titles have to give up those titles to hold office in ravounel or are they just not allowed to aquire new ones?

I'd say the former. There is a colorable argument to be made for the latter, but I wouldn't buy it.

Well either way that is what the children who are not heirs are for.

In a similar vein, a possible text of the agreement adhered to in furtherance of Mission 2: Uniting Ravounel (see The Kintargo Contract, at *27 - 28), that constitutes in essential form the state depicted in various Lost Omens texts (e.g., the World Guide, Legends, Tomorrow Must Burn, Firebrands):

** spoiler omitted **...

Does this mean families with foreign titles have to give up those titles to hold office in ravounel or are they just not allowed to aquire new ones?

I was thinking about Nirmathas and was wondering is nirmathas even organized enough to meet the legal definition of a country cause the only formal position they have is the forest Marshall right?

I get the impression that in cheliax you pay your dues in full the house of Thune doesn't seem like they would play favorites when it comes to getting their cut.

Do you think people in cheliax use ravounel as a tax haven cause there is no way ravounel taxes are as high as the ones in cheliax right?

Beckett99 wrote:

Given how long cheliax and ravounel were one country how so you think they dealt with mutual overlordship? Did they make new cadet houses and give them the lands or do you think they just seized them?

I'm not sure what you mean by "mutual overlordship." Do you mean the problem of some Chelish subjects owning land in Ravounel, and some Ravounel citizens owning land in Cheliax? If so, this isn't actually a problem as long as they all pay their taxes to the state that controls the territory (the frontier is well-defined in the Kintargo Contract).

My concern is that a noble in cheliax with holdings in ravounel could raise an army from their chelaxian lands and use the fact that they are also a ravounel Noble to use that army to fight ravounel because technically they are not invading but simply rebelling against their overlord. Or does the Kintargo contract have clauses that prevent that?

Given how long cheliax and ravounel were one country how so you think they dealt with mutual overlordship? Did they make new cadet houses and give them the lands or do you think they just seized them?

On that time scale you have Taldor and Nidal no other country in avistan has been stable anywhere near as long cheliax. Those three are so old it skews the scale.

Beckett99 wrote:

Temperans wrote:

Beckett99 wrote:

How does being poorly organized but you on the level of galt. Galt was being manipulated by a conqueror worm.

Galt is a great example, but fine the river kingdoms.

The point remains: unorganized == bad government == bad country. Great for individuals, sometimes.

The Nirmathi would object to that very strongly.

In regards to Nirmatha, they are a bunch of libertarians so of course they will disagree. But disagreeing doesn’t make them right.

Specially not when they went independent and immidiately started to lose land. Oprak only stopped because the war was getting tiresome, once they stabilize they might go for an expansion effort. While Molthune has only slowed down because "defeat the lich" is a much more pressing issue than "conquer that region": Once the undead are dealth with they will return to trying to get that land back.

Heck one of Nirmatha's most notable characteristic is how bad at organizing and planning they are because everyone just keeps doing their own thing. So the only reason they are still a country is just guerilla warfare.

How is stopping molthune from having meaningful gains for 50 years losing territory immediately?

What does being democratic have to do with a state's ability to operate competently?

Beckett99 wrote:

How does being poorly organized but you on the level of galt. Galt was being manipulated by a conqueror worm.

Galt is a great example, but fine the river kingdoms.

The point remains: unorganized == bad government == bad country. Great for individuals, sometimes.

The Nirmathi would object to that very strongly.

How does being poorly organized but you on the level of galt. Galt was being manipulated by a conqueror worm.

If they built a mercantile empire like they would also build a navy to protect it. Ravounel having a navy will help them with all of their vulnerability in relation to cheliax.

One wonders at just how much Cheliax is quietly turning the screws on them. A bit of gold in the right palms can cause so many problems, and Cheliax knows exactly how to get that gold to the exact right palms while still holding to the letter of their forced arrangement with Ravounel.

Cheliax is obsessed with law so I think they will favor the tactic of bureaucratic dregery to make life as inconvenient as possible with lots and lots of filing fees of course.

Korvosa and magnimar are both bigger cities then kintargo

Which do you think is more important for ravounel's development capital for investment or a larger labour pool for more labour intensive industries? Cause there is a whole bunch of stuff ravounel can't do due to it's tiny population.

I think they also sell fancy marble

Beckett99 wrote:

zimmerwald1915 wrote:

Kasoh wrote:

zimmerwald1915 wrote:

Kasoh wrote:

As the nation gets older and has something to offer besides Kintargo and Vyre, I think it will have some kind of national identity.

If anything the reverse. Kintargo and Vyre are getting poorer, and nowhere else in particular is growing.

I'll trust your reading on the subject. My table's corner of the world has veered drastically off from the currently published norm so I don't have any incentive to keep up with it.

Description comes from the World Guide. As paraphrased on the wiki:

"After the departure of those who remained loyal to Cheliax, most of Ravounel's citizens are optimistic that they can build their country into a fair and kind place, even if independent Ravounel is less rich and grandiose than when it used to be an archduchy of Cheliax."

That's capital flight.

How does capital fight work In a pre industrial economy?

Liquidate assets, flee the country with specie?

Is Ravounel developed enough to stop it's most valuable assets from being tied to land and landownership?

Kasoh wrote:

zimmerwald1915 wrote:

Kasoh wrote:

As the nation gets older and has something to offer besides Kintargo and Vyre, I think it will have some kind of national identity.

If anything the reverse. Kintargo and Vyre are getting poorer, and nowhere else in particular is growing.

I'll trust your reading on the subject. My table's corner of the world has veered drastically off from the currently published norm so I don't have any incentive to keep up with it.

Description comes from the World Guide. As paraphrased on the wiki:

"After the departure of those who remained loyal to Cheliax, most of Ravounel's citizens are optimistic that they can build their country into a fair and kind place, even if independent Ravounel is less rich and grandiose than when it used to be an archduchy of Cheliax."

That's capital flight.

How does capital fight work In a pre industrial economy?

Kasoh wrote:

I also find that Ravounel's national identity isn't quite solidified. I think you're more likely to hear someone say, "I'm a Kintargan" or "I'm Vyran" than anything else.

On the one hand, more's the pity, parochialism sucks. On the other hand, it might be for the best that no one's adopting a national identity defined primarily by selling out.

Their national independence is based on selling out but I'm pretty sure ravounel's national identity is based on pretending the last hundred years of cheliax culture shift never happened with the parts of that culture they don't like being quietly ignored

Yeah, most people in Avistan are ethnically Taldan. The Kellid, Shoanti, Varisians, Nidaelese, Ulfen, Jadwiga, and Varki are the other Avistani ethnicities.

It's not really that different from how most people in Nex and Geb are Osiriani. Big empires that fall apart tend to leave their people in territories they used to hold.

1E had Iobarians in Mendev and Brevoy but they seem to have vanished consumed by the unending tide of taldens

Beckett99 wrote:

The people of cheliax are ethnic chelaxian

You won't find Chelaxian ethnicity in 2e. It's been Taldan since the 2e core.

That so many taldans that means old cheliax, the shining lands the southern river kingdoms and the southern part of the eye of dread and southern varisia are all majority taldan

The people of cheliax are ethnic chelaxian

What are people from ravounel called they aren't chelish anymore but I don't remember them being called something new

Does Ameiko have a 2nd edition write up?

Beckett99 wrote:

Are there any constitutional monarchies?

No, and why would you want one if you could have a democratic and social republic?

People who want to limit royal power but don't trust republicanism because of galt

Are there any constitutional monarchies?

It seems to me that Ravounel will always have trouble getting out from under a functional chelish state

So I was wondering which inner sea nations would have the most trouble incorporating cannons into their navies and which would do it best or fastest?

And if they had a problem with guns why would they let spacefairing civilizations build all of the lazerguns that landed in Numeria.

The Synchrony Device is a much more impressive one time use device for comparison to a nuclear device

I'm pretty sure they have cannons. They just don't have guns.

Guns and gears implies that their cannons and guns are either bought from alkenstar or confiscated from the pirates which just seems weird to me.

How come Cheliax and its rivals don't have gunworks? If some pirate in the Shackles can start producing cannons then surely the major powers of the inner sea can work it out as well.

Perpdepog wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Beckett99 wrote:

Tar-baphon as a lich has practically forever to put his plans into motion so he could just go dormant long enough to fit a war in. Or does the lore indicate he is particularly active at the moment?

He ended 1e by breaking out of his prison, destroying the nation of Lastwall, and laying siege to Absalom. He’s actively picking fights with Belkzen and threatens pretty much all of Avistab.

On top of that, while Tar-Baphon is a lich, and could therefore wait hundreds of years for his plans to bloom, Tar-Baphon is also Tar-Baphon, and Tar-Baphon is famously petty, peevish, and overconfident to the point that it's meme-worthy.

I've seen him compared to Skeletor. It's not untrue.

Tar-Baphon as Skeletor makes it so much harder to take him seriously.

Tar-baphon as a lich has practically forever to put his plans into motion so he could just go dormant long enough to fit a war in. Or does the lore indicate he is particularly active at the moment?