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Thank you for this; I was looking for ways for my NPC crazy cat lady necromancer to have a pet lich cat.I highlighted that second part though about the character's ability to cast spells with a CL of 11 or greater b/c I'm pretty sure that's saying it is a prereq for becoming a lich, not for making the phylactery.The point is moot anyway, since there is an official way to become a lich without a CL: The Eternal Apothesis ritual.McDaygo, you are mad! Turning a cat into a lich!?
It will lose all of its fur! Half of the fun of petting it will disappear!And everyone knows that if you really need to turn a cat into an undead, it should become a mummy!
2nd that,
heck when i throw Nez (my cat) a roll of toilet paper she wraps it around by herself!
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Thank you for this; I was looking for ways for my NPC crazy cat lady necromancer to have a pet lich cat.I highlighted that second part though about the character's ability to cast spells with a CL of 11 or greater b/c I'm pretty sure that's saying it is a prereq for becoming a lich, not for making the phylactery.The point is moot anyway, since there is an official way to become a lich without a CL: The Eternal Apothesis ritual.McDaygo, you are mad! Turning a cat into a lich!?
It will lose all of its fur! Half of the fun of petting it will disappear!And everyone knows that if you really need to turn a cat into an undead, it should become a mummy!
Sphinx cat say's hello.
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Sphinx cat say's hello.Thank you for this; I was looking for ways for my NPC crazy cat lady necromancer to have a pet lich cat.I highlighted that second part though about the character's ability to cast spells with a CL of 11 or greater b/c I'm pretty sure that's saying it is a prereq for becoming a lich, not for making the phylactery.The point is moot anyway, since there is an official way to become a lich without a CL: The Eternal Apothesis ritual.McDaygo, you are mad! Turning a cat into a lich!?
It will lose all of its fur! Half of the fun of petting it will disappear!And everyone knows that if you really need to turn a cat into an undead, it should become a mummy!
Never liked how they look, but that image is fantastic!
And I stay my opinion, petting it isn't the same thing as petting a furred cat.
i think any sensible leach would have made a permanent demiplane on the astral plane to hide his phylactery there. you need an attuned (to that plane) forked rod to plane shift there without being the caster (who can use create demiplane to go there) and the other options of using astral projection will just have you wandering the endless astral plane as i'd doubt legend lore will give you direct directions. just make it a solid rock with enough hallowed interior to revive and get ready to move out in one corner of it (or other method he is going to hide it there)
That is kind of the point I was making. It is kind of hard for the theoretical non-caster lich to do this. For a Wizard you just need to be 13th level and have Lesser Create Demiplane and Permanency. If you have access to Greater Create Demiplane you could make it a plane with the dead magic and minor negative energy dominant traits with a permanent portal. That portal is leads to a cave 5 miles underground with no entrances so it can only be reached by teleportation or similar means.
The dead magic trait means divinations will not work on the plane or anything in it. It also prevents any form of planar travel other than the permanent gate. Anything that does manage to get to the plane will not be able to use any magic means of defense to protect themselves from the negative energy damage. Usually when you create a plane it does have air, but I see no reason it has to if you don’t want it to. The entry point of the gate is located a great distance from the location of the Phylactery so you have to use non-magical methods to reach it while taking 1d6 damage every round.
Since Rejuvination is the SU the Phylactery would not function in the dead magic zone, but that can be solved by having part of the plane without the magic dead trait.
Thank you for this; I was looking for ways for my NPC crazy cat lady necromancer to have a pet lich cat.I highlighted that second part though about the character's ability to cast spells with a CL of 11 or greater b/c I'm pretty sure that's saying it is a prereq for becoming a lich, not for making the phylactery.The point is moot anyway, since there is an official way to become a lich without a CL: The Eternal Apothesis ritual.McDaygo, you are mad! Turning a cat into a lich!?
It will lose all of its fur! Half of the fun of petting it will disappear!And everyone knows that if you really need to turn a cat into an undead, it should become a mummy!
House cat that can paralyze with a purring rub lol
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House cat that can paralyze with a purring rub lolThank you for this; I was looking for ways for my NPC crazy cat lady necromancer to have a pet lich cat.I highlighted that second part though about the character's ability to cast spells with a CL of 11 or greater b/c I'm pretty sure that's saying it is a prereq for becoming a lich, not for making the phylactery.The point is moot anyway, since there is an official way to become a lich without a CL: The Eternal Apothesis ritual.McDaygo, you are mad! Turning a cat into a lich!?
It will lose all of its fur! Half of the fun of petting it will disappear!And everyone knows that if you really need to turn a cat into an undead, it should become a mummy!
Consider the effect of the dandruff of a mummy!
Nevermind the fleas that land on a plague zombie cat… plague zombie flea swarms
Back on topic, since a Lich is usually a cunning spellcaster, they can easily disguise themselves as regular mortals, carrying their phylactery as "mere objects" and still go unnoticed.
Vampires... cant go out in broad daylight, cross rivers and enter building without invitations. ANY of these could ring a bell to anyone knowledgeable.
I'm sorry, but a voodoo witch doctor masquerading as the mayor of a Louisiana/New Orleans city near a swamp works leagues better as a Lich than a vampire ^^; I was thinking also as a zombie lord or freed Juju zombie, but... the Lich feels more powerful and resourceful.
^This is a disturbingly plausible scenario . . . .
It would HAVE to be Lich. Wizards are already reality-altering gods at higher levels, being one without ALSO having the established and pretty fairly well known weaknesses of vampires. Definitely "Door number one, Bob."
Partially relevant story (and now we need a backport of Thaumaturge to 1st Edition).
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On paper, a lich is the best option. Sure, the other templates provide better mechanical benefits, but only a phylactery soul cage soul egg can nearly guarantee immortality - indeed, your greatest threat is not pesky adventures or rival undead, but boredom taking you and becoming a demilich...
Polymorph and possession spells resolve the "go in public" issue. Heck, if you want to indulge in the pleasures of the living (eating drinking, romantic pursuits) it's an option. But you'll probably get bored quickly. After a century or two. And if you're not a powerful caster, why bother?
With a vampire, the party goes on forever. Well, during the nights anyway, and with all that stolen youth you've got to sleep it off sometime. But your weaknesses are pretty brutal - sunlight can be dealt with a goth tattoo, but you'll never be safe. Also, with create spawn, you won't just have minions, you'll have a big family. But vampires are much easier to root out and you can't travel without keeping your coffin close by, so liches are more mobile.
Graveknights are obviously the most metal choice, but they're also the easiest to destroy... and if you're not engaging in battle, you'll lose interest quickly. There's evidence in at least one AP of graveknights falling into long torpor without a purpose.
Mummy Lords have a powerful rejuvenation ability as well, and if you're smart their tomb can be just as inaccessible as a Lich's phylactery[/] [s]soul cage soul egg. The greater despair aura is going to make interacting with the living difficult, but otherwise it's a good alternative to Lich and you save some cash. The bad news is it's harder (but not impossible!) to relocate your tomb than a trinket.
If you're a druid, Siabrae is an option. You need to be on blighted ground and able to make a DC 20 Fort Save, which means every time you are destroyed, there's a 5% chance you don't come back. Otherwise, it's unclear whether you can be stopped from coming back. Otherwise, you get some pretty neat stuff, although druids are pretty notorious for dumping CHA...
Ghosts are great. Powerful, very difficult to put down permanently unless they want to be, and being incorporeal with effective at will possession is a spicy combo. The biggest downside, most likely, is you have to be unfulfilled, if not miserable all the time. But for most, that's probably not an adjustment.
Also, don't forget all the variant types of liches and vampires - there's plenty of fun options there.
So which is best? It depends really on your needs. Your best option is to move to Geb or somewhere that's tolerant to undead to avoid all the aspiring undead slayers. But the paranoid caster with a doom lair with layered defenses isn't exclusive to the Lich, although they can for obvious reasons pull it off with the most confidence... really being destroyed is just an inconvenience most of the time. And living without fear... that's hard to put a price on. Also, all undead are immune to it anyway.
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On paper, a lich is the best option. Sure, the other templates provide better mechanical benefits, but only a
phylacterysoul cagesoul egg can nearly guarantee immortality - indeed, your greatest threat is not pesky adventures or rival undead, but boredom taking you and becoming a demilich......
Nice.
In seriousness, all undead are beautiful in their own way
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Is nobody gonna mention the Psychic Lich? Not only do they come back if destroyed, but their "Phylactery" (Memoir) gets restored if destroyed, unless you also destroy their Astral Legend.
Psychic Liches are still just Liches... destroying an Astral Legend is really no more involved than finding and destroying a phylactery/soul cage.
If you really want to throw a spanner in the works for the local Paladins, make it a Familial Lich... now they have to kill your bloodline. Lol. Some completely innocent soul whose only "sin" is being related to a Lich they don't even know about. Sorry little Sally, I know you be but seven, and you're loving and kind... but your great great great great great grandpa was very evil and you're the very last of their kin, so you have to die today.
Well, Sally could be brought to a decent orphanage where she is keenly observed. An antimagic field would help a lot, too.
But, inevitably some day Sally would leave her well-meaning observers, and a new story begins...
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^ . . . Just waiting for a glitch in Earth's planetary Anti-Magic Field to possess his next descendent. This may have already occurred . . . .
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If you really want to throw a spanner in the works for the local Paladins, make it a Familial Lich... now they have to kill your bloodline. Lol. Some completely innocent soul whose only "sin" is being related to a Lich they don't even know about. Sorry little Sally, I know you be but seven, and you're loving and kind... but your great great great great great grandpa was very evil and you're the very last of their kin, so you have to die today.They goofed that--there should be some way to destroy the link the lich has with someone so you don't end up with this problem.
No they shouldn't have. Lol.
Then Paladins would just do THAT instead of murdering innocent little Sally. We do NOT want an easy way out of this, regardless of how difficult the easy way may be. Just no.
Liches are already completely up to the GM... how to become a Lich isn't in the rules... the template doesn't explain HOW it is acquired.... the texts/description of the Phylactery of Jadis-Vel say it teaches you the process, but does not list/state said process... the process is also said to be unique to each soul, so what worked for one may not [and likely will not] work for another... blah blah blah...
All that being said, the process to disconnect a Familial Lich from their kin should be equally unique... and equally mysterious... and if I am the GM, doesn't exist, at all. The ONLY way to stop a Familial Lich should absolutely require snuffing out the entire bloodline of said Familial Lich. That is the whole point.
It is SUPPOSED to be diabolically wicked. It is SUPPOSED to make that choice difficult. Nobody thinks twice if presented with the opportunity to Sunder a Lich's phylactery/soul cage... but most people at least hesitate when it comes to dropping the axe on innocent little Sally. These are the moments we play for, right here. Don't take those moments away by offering alternatives to painful moral dilemmas.
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If the paladin can figure out a way for Sally to make her initial saving throw, she becomes permanently immune to it.
Since the ability is a SU it may be possible to block the lich from reaching his target. What is not clear is what happens if the lich cannot find a suitable host within the 10 days. For example, if the last remaining decedent was in an area with no magic does the lich die because it cannot find a target? If that is the case, you could move any decedents to a magic dead plane, and it would die while leaving the decedents alive.
If the paladin can figure out a way for Sally to make her initial saving throw, she becomes permanently immune to it.
Since the ability is a SU it may be possible to block the lich from reaching his target. What is not clear is what happens if the lich cannot find a suitable host within the 10 days. For example, if the last remaining decedent was in an area with no magic does the lich die because it cannot find a target? If that is the case, you could move any decedents to a magic dead plane, and it would die while leaving the decedents alive.
The tragic end of a Familial Lich. Lol.
I do believe your plan would work, and you would only need to have said family in said dead magic plane for 11 days... so, if you knew where all said family members were before killing the Familial Lich, AND convinced/coerced them all to go to this random plane "for their protection", THEN killed the Familial Lich... yeah, I do think it fails to reform. The Familial Lich dies a true death.
Looking at the demilich it seems to me that a lich who does not have a suitable container for its soul runs into some major problems. Based on that I would say that familial lich who is prevented from rejuvenating for too long will die or become a demilich. The question is how long does this take?
I'd count the antimagic field / dead magic zone as "family member succeeded at save", so that target would be no longer endangered. And as soon as the familiar lich runs out of potential targets, it's screwed:
If the relative succeeds at her save, she becomes permanently immune to this ability, and the familial lich must spend another 1d10 days searching for the next-nearest living relative, repeating the process until it succeeds or until no such relatives remain and it is destroyed instead.
While an antagonist who is hard to kill can be interesting, I wouldn't overdo it as a GM. At some point the players will start questioning whether it's worth the trouble to jump through yet another hoop, so better give them an entertaining hunt to finish off the lich and some intermediate rewards (might be as nonmechanical as frustrated telepathic utterances from the lich).
I feel that a single Lich really isn't worth the trouble... in most cases. Obviously, something like Tar-Baphon demands both your attention and action. Anyways, you give the party the last of kin, and let them figure out how to protect this one innocent soul from being taken over by an evil Lich. Or twins, or whatever. Doesn't matter, as long as you basically give them the living relative(s) as a freebie, because no party is going to waste the time tracking down a bunch of dumb relatives...
It's boring, fruitless, and an overall waste of a precious weekly session. It's more fun to just kill the stupid Lich every time it appears... ten days later, we'll be back... man, I hope this dude doesn't run out of family, this is fun... yeah, I'm getting good at this...
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The solutions generally are spells that are less morally troubling, like Trap the Soul (I was convinced it was an Evil spell, but it isn't).
Or you can get an Amulet of Protection from Evil for every member of the family. It is costly and finding all of them can be difficult, but it can be done.
Naturally, if during his life the lich was someone like Gengis Khan and now one person out of 200 is his direct descendant, it will become very difficult and very, very costly.
:-)
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I don't like this familial lich. It seems like you'll likely have to kill a lot of people just to keep this lich dead. By killing I mean either you kill members of the lich's family personally or kill indirectly when the lich is slain and must use its possession ability to come back.
There doesn't appear to be a good way to get around this. Not everyone has their own dead magic demiplane. I think its best to never use this type of lich.
It is evil... on purpose.
Definitely save such a thing for an epic adventure, all its own. Something like a Familial Lich doesn't make for good side quests.
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Alternatively, one of the PCs might have the Familial Lich as his ancestor. Which has never been a problem (as the lich evidently keeps itself to itself), except that there's apparently this crusading Pharasman zealot about. And she's got hold of a family tree.
Alternatively, one of the PCs might have the Familial Lich as his ancestor. Which has never been a problem (as the lich evidently keeps itself to itself), except that there's apparently this crusading Pharasman zealot about. And she's got hold of a family tree.
If you have several characters in the party playing as in-game blood relatives for any reason, you could just add a distant relative in their bloodline... now your Familial Lich has options. Lol.
Considering the average PFS adventure is 1-12, you could feasibly have this said distant relative be a BBEG for a campaign of similar length. So those saving throws they have to make after killing the Lich become extremely important. Nobody wants to lose their endgame character this way, because not only is that character dead... but the Lich is back. Lol.
I was thinking of the number of descendants a familial lich might have if they were different species. Elves would have fewer as they take longer to breed and would likely have documented family trees. Orcs would have more and might only trace their lineage through tales or memorization. Goblins would be worse; it might be best to kill them all (not that you needed a good reason to).
Human provides opportunity to mix with both Elves and Orcs. And whatever else you want via Racial Heritage.
If you worship Lamashtu and wear the Demon Mother's Mask, you "may interbreed with animals within one size category of the wearer’s size. The offspring of such unions are members of the mother’s race with the fiendish simple template and bear monstrous aesthetic features of the father’s race."
Anyone read the old AD&D 2Ed "Van Richten's Guide to the Lich"? It was a Ravenloft-focused supplement, easily the best of the Van Richten's Guide series, and an incredible resource.
After getting it way back in the day, I used many of the boosts, alternative rules and powers in non-Ravenloft settings.
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Anyone read the old AD&D 2Ed "Van Richten's Guide to the Lich"? It was a Ravenloft-focused supplement, easily the best of the Van Richten's Guide series, and an incredible resource.
After getting it way back in the day, I used many of the boosts, alternative rules and powers in non-Ravenloft settings.
A well-made lich should be a unique character. Same thing for a ghost.
Giving it different strength and weakness help make it special, as long as it is not tailored to be the party counter.