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After watching all these lasso builds, anyone have a good grippili net build?
Wonderstell's Hangman Vigilante would be pretty slick. Having never looked at the Hangman before, I am excited to explore that archetype further. There are lots of silly things one could do with that.
If you can get more than just one net-using frog on the same team, then the Knotted Nets teamwork feat would be freaking awesome. Combine that with the Wall of Flesh teamwork feat, and suddenly these little net-using frogs don't seem so little no more. It's hilarious. I know the two virtual size increases will not stack, but it does give you several ways to get past being Small.
Grippli make excellent Vexing Mousers, too. Could probably make a Vexing Mouser with Net and Trident.
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Here's another glorious liar... you could go UnRogue 5 with this for Skill Unlock Bluff, and all the other UnChained Rogue BS... but you then could not take the Convincing Lie Rogue Talent.
Charlatan-Guild Agent Rogue 4
1. Sneak Attack 1D6
1. Honor Among Thieves
1. Natural Born Liar
1(level):
2. Guild Connections
... Black Market Connections (rogue talent)
2. Rogue Talent
... Obfuscate Story
3. Sneak Attack 2D6
3. Grand Hoax
... Rumormonger (rogue talent)
3(level): Extra Rogue Talent
... Convincing Lie
4. Guild Connections
... Gossip Collector (vigilante talent)
4. Rogue Talent
... Steal Story
I have a Tengu, named Cawn, that uses this [Charlatan-Guild Agent Rogue 4] to start a career as a Brazen Deceiver Bard... people will literally believe anything he says, and he is so good at lying that other people spread his lies with his Bluff bonus! Lol. He can reshape the reality of what a population believes. Cawn can be your best friend, or your worst nightmare. He has the Amiable Blunder trait and the Confabulist and Lovable Scoundrel and Rhetorical Flourish feats to just kind of laugh it away on the rare chancd he gets caught lying/fails a Bluff check... Cawn hardly belongs in a thread about low level builds, though. He is Rogue 4/Bard 11, and I will probably bump him up to Rogue 4/Bard 13 next time I use him (simply because Bard 13 has better action economy).
To note, we should showcase things like the Charlatan Rogue getting the Rumormonger Advanced Talent at level 3. It is legit AF to get something that early... the short of thing that can really make a low level build stand out.
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@zza ni
Something similar can be done with the Eerie Disappearance rogue talent (available to a Vigilante with the Rogue Talent Vig Talent). Intimidate everyone within 60 ft as part of a full-round action to enter stealth while moving.
Pairs well with a 'Human Shadow' ART Halfling for easy access to stealth checks.Downside is that you need to wait until level 6.
***
@Mark Hoover 330
Believe it or not, more grappling.
Hangman Vigilante to weave your net into a noose, which you wield as a net and can grapple with. Net Adept turns it into a 10 ft reach weapon which has the previously mentioned advantage of grappling someone outside their reach.
It has some wonky interaction with the original entangled effect but should inflict it while you grapple, making it perfect for the Equipment Trick.
I try to avoid intimidate with this trick as the dc keep rising. And youll need to keep it up to knock people out.
Also the feat keep them unawere of your presence "..The victim cannot detect the source of the sound and dismisses it as the wind or some other mundane source.."
Which allow for full damage hidden strike when you do show up. And without metagaming the vicitm doesn't even know why they have nonlethal damage.
Get super high stealth and dc (ability focus , high cha etc) and you can sneak into an enemy camp while scouting and knock them all down without them being able to even target you.
(Well they would see people falling all over but detect magic won't ping. They would most likely think poison or the like)
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I try to avoid intimidate with this trick as the dc keep rising. And youll need to keep it up to knock people out.
I believe that the +5 DC increase is only if you failed the previous attempt, as it calls it a "retry", not if you made another demoralize after a successful one.
Also the feat keep them unawere of your presence "..The victim cannot detect the source of the sound and dismisses it as the wind or some other mundane source.."
Which allow for full damage hidden strike when you do show up. And without metagaming the vicitm doesn't even know why they have nonlethal damage.
This is false marketing! I paid for a batman build but instead I get a Skyrim stealth archery build without the archery!?
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I try to avoid intimidate with this trick as the dc keep rising. And youll need to keep it up to knock people out.I believe that the +5 DC increase is only if you failed the previous attempt, as it calls it a "retry", not if you made another demoralize after a successful one.
nothing talk about failing or succeeding. compare to diplomacy's try again:
"Try Again: You cannot use Diplomacy to influence a given creature’s attitude more than once in a 24-hour period. If a request is refused, the result does not change with additional checks, although other requests might be made. You can retry Diplomacy checks made to gather information. "
as for b@tman, 1st i never wrote "Batman" so sue me ;).
also you can show up and then stealth, the (misleading) image linked clearly show him out of stealth..
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Some low level Warpriest fun...
Warpriest 3
Aesocar [LG]
Aesocar's favored weapon is the Mancatcher, with which we automatically gain proficiency. And our Mancatcher does 1D6 damages, instead of whatever nonexistent BS damage it did before. We can use our level 3 feat and our first bonus feat to pick up Dirty Fighting and Improved Grapple at the same time.
Warpriest 3
Picoperi [CG], or
Seramaydiel [NG]
Both of their favored weapons are the Blowgun, with which we automatically gain proficiency. And our Blowgun does 1D6 damages, instead of whatever nonexistent BS damage it did before. Lol.
Warpriest 3
Apsu [LG], or
Iapholi [N]
Kobold for both of these ones... Apsu's favored weapon is the bite attack, for which we have the Dragonmaw alternative racial feature. And Iapholi's favored weapon is the tail slap, for which we have the Tail Terror feat. Could be Divine Commander Warpriests with Deinonychus mounts... bunches and bunches of little, angry lizards... rawr.
Warpriest 3
Khepri [NG], or
Lalaci [CG], or
Pulura [CG], or even
Wylgart [LE]
Halfling with the Warslinger alternative racial feature, because the Sling is our favored weapon. Probably start with Point Blank Shot, like always... Precise Shot can be had at level 3, as well as Slipslinger Style or Arc Slinger to really round out the build.
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Found an absolutely wild shenanigan that comes online at 4th level:
vetala-born dhampir alchemist (ragechemist) 4
ability scores: max Int, dump Str/Wis/Cha
traits: Called, Enduring Mutagen, Student of Philosophy
drawback: Headstrong
feats: Splash Weapon Mastery, Extra Discovery
discoveries: precise bombs, tumor familiar, extend potion
favored class bonus: mutagen duration
key gear: anatomy doll, potion of untold wonder
Use alchemical allocation with your potion, then drink your mutagen. Have your rhamphorhynchus familiar start continually biting you for damage and twisting the doll to heal you back up with negative energy. Fail saves against your rage mutagen to get escalating penalties, which are translated into bonuses thanks to untold wonder. So you end up with absurdly high Intelligence and Will bonuses that last for hours and give you unparalleled skill checks plus massive damage with your splash weapons.
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Found an absolutely wild shenanigan that comes online at 4th level:
vetala-born dhampir alchemist (ragechemist) 4
ability scores: max Int, dump Str/Wis/Cha
traits: Called, Enduring Mutagen, Student of Philosophy
drawback: Headstrong
feats: Splash Weapon Mastery, Extra Discovery
discoveries: precise bombs, tumor familiar, extend potion
favored class bonus: mutagen duration
key gear: anatomy doll, potion of untold wonderUse alchemical allocation with your potion, then drink your mutagen. Have your rhamphorhynchus familiar start continually biting you for damage and twisting the doll to heal you back up with negative energy. Fail saves against your rage mutagen to get escalating penalties, which are translated into bonuses thanks to untold wonder. So you end up with absurdly high Intelligence and Will bonuses that last for hours and give you unparalleled skill checks plus massive damage with your splash weapons.
I like this, but relying on a potion of Untold Wonder is dubious, at best. I don't know how many Paladins spend their time brewing such things, but I seriously doubt said potions are very common. I also like the Rhamphorhynchus as a Familiar, but I am also not sure if it can manipulate/twist an anatomy doll.
Overall, though, the build is silly and fun.
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Glad you like it! Fair concerns. The build is certainly dependent on being able to find the potion, though I'll note if you're using the magic item availability guidelines it does fall within the base value for a large town (or small city, depending on the CL you want), which means "a 75% chance that any item of that value or lower can be found for sale with little effort in that community."
As for the rhamphorhynchus, they are at least of a body type with "grasp/carry — yes" in the magic item slots table, but it's absolutely GM discretion whether they can stab or twist the doll effectively, and I suspect most real-life pterosaurs would probably need to use their mouth to exert any serious force. If all else fails you can always just activate the doll yourself as long as you're not in combat and don't need your standard actions for anything else.
Mostly I just love the image of an alchemist gaining power not through any sort of proper study, but by drinking a ludicrous hodgepodge of concoctions to contort their mental state in a way that would normally produce a disastrous feedback loop but in the right combination unlocks nigh-omniscience. It fits very nicely with the vetala flavor. Plus it allows for some mechanical options that need a little love — making ragechemist viable is hard enough, and I'm pretty sure this is the only reason anyone would even consider playing one that's not strength-based. Not to mention some of the weirder possibilities that getting such a high Int score at this level opens up, like occult rituals.
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I like this, but relying on a potion of Untold Wonder is dubious, at best. I don't know how many Paladins spend their time brewing such things, but I seriously doubt said potions are very common.
I'm certain that all of these paladin potion and wand shenanigans can be tracked down to one specific order. The Abadarians'. Most likely they're all Knights of Coins and have cornered the market with their 10% profit Prosperity Blessing.
Damn them! While we were busy fighting against the forces of evil, they aligned with the market forces!
***
Fail saves against your rage mutagen to get escalating penalties, which are translated into bonuses thanks to untold wonder. So you end up with absurdly high Intelligence and Will bonuses that last for hours and give you unparalleled skill checks plus massive damage with your splash weapons.
Pfffffft
What a wonderfully dumb spell. Love it.
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Since a Paladin would have to invest one of their scarce feats for Brew Potion, and since they would have to be fairly high level to cast Untold Wonder, it means that your party would need to have a fairly high level Paladin for a patron.
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Found an absolutely wild shenanigan that comes online at 4th level:
vetala-born dhampir alchemist (ragechemist) 4
ability scores: max Int, dump Str/Wis/Cha
traits: Called, Enduring Mutagen, Student of Philosophy
drawback: Headstrong
feats: Splash Weapon Mastery, Extra Discovery
discoveries: precise bombs, tumor familiar, extend potion
favored class bonus: mutagen duration
key gear: anatomy doll, potion of untold wonderUse alchemical allocation with your potion, then drink your mutagen. Have your rhamphorhynchus familiar start continually biting you for damage and twisting the doll to heal you back up with negative energy. Fail saves against your rage mutagen to get escalating penalties, which are translated into bonuses thanks to untold wonder. So you end up with absurdly high Intelligence and Will bonuses that last for hours and give you unparalleled skill checks plus massive damage with your splash weapons.
the anatomy doll won't heal the Dhmpir.
the negative energy need to call out that it heal undead to work. not damage the living. same as a cleric channeling energy.good cleric can channel positive energy to heal living or harm undead, but the one healing the living will not harm undead in the area, and the same for the opposite. the one harming undead won't heal the living. same goes for evil cleric channeling negative energy vs living and undead.
(only very specific archtypes\feats\items allow the channel to both heal one side while damaging the other at the same time.)
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Since a Paladin would have to invest one of their scarce feats for Brew Potion, and since they would have to be fairly high level to cast Untold Wonder, it means that your party would need to have a fairly high level Paladin for a patron.
Or they could just... buy it, right? Like, from a shop. In a town where most 2,000-gp items are readily available.
I mean, do you normally expect PCs to have a specific patron who personally crafts them every item they want to purchase?
the anatomy doll won't heal the Dhmpir.
the negative energy need to call out that it heal undead to work. not damage the living. same as a cleric channeling energy.
I'm genuinely not sure if that's true. You're of course accurately describing how channel energy works, but that's a direct result of the rules for channel energy. Meanwhile the positive/negative energy FAQ specifically calls out channeling as unusual, though it's not quite clear what the default expectation is for abilities that don't specify. It looks like a negative energy effect that doesn't heal undead will say so explicitly (e.g. chill touch, blood crow strike). My best reading is that a dhampir hit by umbral strike would suffer the blindness and the cold damage but be healed by the negative energy damage, and likewise a dhampir whose blood was used on an anatomy doll would be affected by the sympathetic link and the sickened condition as normal but be healed by the negative energy damage.
If not, they'll just have to rely on a wand of infernal healing until they can afford boots of the earth.
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Since a Paladin would have to invest one of their scarce feats for Brew Potion, and since they would have to be fairly high level to cast Untold Wonder, it means that your party would need to have a fairly high level Paladin for a patron.Or they could just... buy it, right? Like, from a shop. In a town where most 2,000-gp items are readily available.
I mean, do you normally expect PCs to have a specific patron who personally crafts them every item they want to purchase?
{. . .}
Not necessarily, but somebody has to make this item, and if it's really hard to get somebody to make it, you can expect it to be considerably more rare than its computed list price would suggest. I mean, you aren't expecting Lord WalDeMart to find the rare people who can make it and express it to wherever it might be needed, are you?
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..
I'm genuinely not sure if that's true. You're of course accurately describing how channel energy works, but that's a direct result of the rules for channel energy. Meanwhile the positive/negative energy FAQ specifically calls out channeling as unusual, though it's not quite clear what the default expectation is for abilities that don't specify. It looks like a negative energy effect that doesn't heal undead will say so explicitly (e.g. chill touch, blood crow strike). My best reading is that a dhampir hit by umbral strike would suffer the blindness and the cold damage but be healed by the negative energy damage, and likewise a dhampir whose blood was used on an anatomy doll would be affected by the sympathetic link and the sickened condition as normal but be healed by the negative energy damage...the anatomy doll won't heal the Dhmpir.
the negative energy need to call out that it heal undead to work. not damage the living. same as a cleric channeling energy.
it was faqed a while ago. (in 2016)
short story it need to say it heal undead to heal the undead (or dhampir). if it only list damaging living it only damage them (and do nothing to undead)
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Not necessarily, but somebody has to make this item, and if it's really hard to get somebody to make it, you can expect it to be considerably more rare than its computed list price would suggest. I mean, you aren't expecting Lord WalDeMart to find the rare people who can make it and express it to wherever it might be needed, are you?
I kinda get where you're coming from, but it seems a bit silly. After all, potions of level 3 paladin spells are specifically listed with prices in the very same chapter of the core rulebook that gives those availability guidelines. If they wanted them to be unusually hard to find compared to other items of similar value, couldn't they have just said so? And paladins don't have limited spells known, so there's no reason potions of untold wonder would be any more rare than potions of any other level 3 paladin spell.
As for the story side of things, yeah I would actually expect magic item shops in large towns to be buying potions off traveling merchants from distant lands, tracking down crafters who can fill gaps in their inventories, and so on, not just relying on whoever happens to live in the area. I'd assume that's all part of the unspoken background operation that explains why their selling prices are twice what PCs can get away with — customers are paying for selection.
And as a side note, I'm not sure I actually see why a paladin with Brew Potion would be so rare. Surely NPCs aren't all optimizing their feat selection for adventuring or dueling, and putting some resources toward bolstering your larger community's ability to fight evil at the expense of your own personal glory sounds like a fairly lawful good thing to do. Besides untold wonder there are half a dozen worthwile potions or oils that paladins are the sole or cheapest source for, maybe twenty more that they're as good a source for as anyone else, and unlike most casting classes a single paladin with Brew Potion can brew every last one of them. Don't see why they'd be especially hard to find.
But really I'd almost never expect that sort of analysis to matter, because when it comes down to it that seems like an exhausting way to handle shopping. "You want to buy a lesser extend metamagic rod when you get into the city? Let's see... there are thirty-seven casters in the region of 9th level or higher, but only two of them took Craft Rod because feats are scarce. One's a sorcerer who doesn't have Extend Spell and can't make a DC 27 Spellcraft check because he wanted to max out his social skills, and the other's a druid who's philosophically opposed to the institution of retail. Sorry, no luck." Makes sense for MacGuffins, not so much for buying basic magic gear. If it's not an unusually low-magic game, that's what the availability guidelines are there for. But that's just my take on it, your experience may vary.
it was faqed a while ago. (in 2016)
im not getting that from that FAQ
Yeah that's the FAQ I was referring to in my last post, clearly interpretations differ and I can see how either of you reached the readings you did, it seemed ambiguous to me. I'm not especially concerned since the build works either way, at most you'd have to tweak the source of healing you use.
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the last bit help understand.
"Negative energy works just as described above for positive energy, reversing living creatures and undead in all cases "
so let's read it with that in mind: the original words Vs the reversed word
"..PositiveNegative energy often heals livingundead creatures, though not always (for instance channeled positivenegative energy to harm undeadthe living or the life blast Umbral Strike spell ). It often harms undeadliving creatures, though not always (for instance channeled positivenegative energy to heal livingundead creatures). Individual effects will tell you whether they heal livingundead (if they mention healing without specifying what they heal, they always mean only livingundead creatures), harm undeadliving creatures, or both..."
if you read it as they ask you to, you see that they specifically call out that the effect should tell you what it does, and that not all effects do both healing and harming. so an effect that talk about dealing damage and not about healing does not in fact have the ability to heal.
-you can continue after the point that i stopped to have the full information:
"..Positive Negative energy never heals or harms creatures or objects that are neither living undead nor undead living (such as constructs), and it never directly damages the living undead or heals undead living, barring some special effect that explicitly changes this like a dhampir’s negative energy affinity..
-I'm not reversing the following, not related to negative energy planes-
..These rules extend to the fast healing from positive-energy attuned planes as well (though overhealing on a major positive-energy attuned plane can be dangerous as well); only living creatures gain fast healing on such a plane."
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Not necessarily, but somebody has to make this item, and if it's really hard to get somebody to make it, you can expect it to be considerably more rare than its computed list price would suggest. I mean, you aren't expecting Lord WalDeMart to find the rare people who can make it and express it to wherever it might be needed, are you?I kinda get where you're coming from, but it seems a bit silly. After all, potions of level 3 paladin spells are specifically listed with prices in the very same chapter of the core rulebook that gives those availability guidelines. If they wanted them to be unusually hard to find compared to other items of similar value, couldn't they have just said so? And paladins don't have limited spells known, so there's no reason potions of untold wonder would be any more rare than potions of any other level 3 paladin spell.
{. . .}
If it was also a level 3 Cleric (or some other common caster) spell, I would agree with you, but it really seems like a special case -- nobody else can make a potion of it at all. And yes, I wish they would have thought of that when writing the text to go with the potion cost tables.
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Not necessarily, but somebody has to make this item, and if it's really hard to get somebody to make it, you can expect it to be considerably more rare than its computed list price would suggest. I mean, you aren't expecting Lord WalDeMart to find the rare people who can make it and express it to wherever it might be needed, are you?I kinda get where you're coming from, but it seems a bit silly. After all, potions of level 3 paladin spells are specifically listed with prices in the very same chapter of the core rulebook that gives those availability guidelines. If they wanted them to be unusually hard to find compared to other items of similar value, couldn't they have just said so? And paladins don't have limited spells known, so there's no reason potions of untold wonder would be any more rare than potions of any other level 3 paladin spell.
{. . .}If it was also a level 3 Cleric (or some other common caster) spell, I would agree with you, but it really seems like a special case -- nobody else can make a potion of it at all. And yes, I wish they would have thought of that when writing the text to go with the potion cost tables.
remember that the one supplying the spell doesn't have to be the one crafting the item. (it doesn't even need to be a person, you can use a wand etc)
heck since the ragechemist doesn't give up his own 'brew potion' class ability he can pay a paladin to cast the spell while he brew the potion. spell caster spell service is priced as (10 gp) x(caster level)X(spell level).
so all he need is to find a 10th level paladin in a nearby church and ask his service for 210 gp.(remember paladin get -3 to caster level)
-assuming he has 16 cha to get the bonus 3rd level spell at 10th level , otherwise it's an 11th level paladin with at least 13 cha, to be bale to cast 3rd level spells. (so the price multiplier would rise from 7 to 8)
total price to make the potion would be 25X7X3 (for crafting the potion) + 10X7X3 (for spellcasting service) = 735 gp.
well nearby might not be close enough as:
"...Not every town or village has a spellcaster of sufficient level to cast any spell. In general, you must travel to a small town (or larger settlement) to be reasonably assured of finding a spellcaster capable of casting 1st-level spells, a large town for 2nd-level spells, a small city for 3rd- or 4thlevel spells, a large city for 5th- or 6th-level spells, and a metropolis for 7th- or 8th-level spells. Even a metropolis isn’t guaranteed to have a local spellcaster able to cast 9th-level spells."
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{. . .}
remember that the one supplying the spell doesn't have to be the one crafting the item. (it doesn't even need to be a person, you can use a wand etc)heck since the ragechemist doesn't give up his own 'brew potion' class ability he can pay a paladin to cast the spell while he brew the potion. spell caster spell service is priced as (10 gp) x(caster level)X(spell level).
so all he need is to find a 10th level paladin in a nearby church and ask his service for 210 gp.(remember paladin get -3 to caster level)
-assuming he has 16 cha to get the bonus 3rd level spell at 10th level , otherwise it's an 11th level paladin with at least 13 cha, to be bale to cast 3rd level spells. (so the price...
Using cooperative crafting is actually a good idea -- I forgot about that option.
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i actually had fun imagining the familiar harming the master with the doll.
i know what my wizard's Pooka familiar would ever say if told to do so:
"..why are you hurting yourself?..why are you hurting yourself?.."
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I really like Drow Sorcerer 5 for a low level wicked mage build... Sorcerer offers the best FCB for Drow, and I just personally prefer spontaneous casters.
Drow, especially Drow Noble, with the Champion of Dark Powers and Seducer alternative racial features for a +2 to the DC's of spells with the evil descriptor and +1 to the DC's of Enchantment spells, respectively. You can also add the Blasphemous Covenant alternative racial feature if you want to call/summon demons or make deals with devils.
The Damnation feat Maleficium adds +1 the DC's of spells with the evil descriptor, and gets better if you take more Damnation feats.
The Apocalyptic Spell metamagic feat adds the evil descriptor to spells it has modified, and is only a +1 spell slot modification. The Apocalyptic Spell effect isn't bad, either, making for some mild battlefield control lingering behind your instantaneous area spells.
Now, without using trait cheese, we have to wait until level 5 to take Apocalyptic Spell, for obvious reasons. We could take the typical BS traits to cheat metamagic costs, and also take Apocalyptic Spell at level 1... casting Apocalyptic Burning Hands, or whatever... but I honestly don't know if that is a good use of our traits. We could still use traits to access Apocalyptic Spell at 3, still before having 2nd-level spells, by taking Additonal Traits at 1... that allows us to at least later retrain the feat to the exact same feat with the exact same traits, just keyed to better spells.
Regardless, we will have Apocalyptic Spell and Maleficium within the first 5 levels... this is without archetypes or Bloodlines...
As for archetypes for this, I particularly like the False Priest VMC Cleric [Evil Domain]... it's as close as you can get to a high "priest" of Razmir. Lol. Although, the Tattooed Sorcerer also works well without VMC, or any relation to the Living God.
Bloodlines include your typical blaster stuffs, like Draconic and/or Orc if you want to focus on instantaneous area effect spells to be modified by Apocalyptic Spell. You could also go with something like Fey if you wanted to focus more on charms. Apocalyptic Spell adding the evil descriptor to any spell it modifies makes the instantaneous area effect spells pretty appealing, though... so the Bloodlines associated with those spells also immediately become more appealing. Special mention goes to the Abyssal Bloodline if you want to go for more of a Demonic Implants/Fleshcrafter build going for the Demoniac prestige class.
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Human goes one better than Drow for Sorcerer Favored Class Bonus -- still one bonus spell per level of at least 1 level lower than the highest you can cast, but not limited to the set of spells having the Curse, Evil, or Pain descriptors, so even if that's your inclination, you can still use it to snag something else you need. Of course, Humans are plenty capable of being Evil anyway . . . .
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Human goes one better than Drow for Sorcerer Favored Class Bonus -- still one bonus spell per level of at least 1 level lower than the highest you can cast, but not limited to the set of spells having the Curse, Evil, or Pain descriptors, so even if that's your inclination, you can still use it to snag something else you need. Of course, Humans are plenty capable of being Evil anyway . . . .
For sure, but Drow have the alternative racial features that really bring this together. And spells having the Curse, Evil, or Pain descriptors is kind of the entire focus, so it's not especially limiting in this particular situation.
And, in a fantasy game, I will generally/always try be something other than human... I have to be a human every day in real life, why would I ever want to be THIS in a fantasy game?
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{. . .}
And, in a fantasy game, I will generally/always try be something other than human... I have to be a human every day in real life, why would I ever want to be THIS in a fantasy game?
Good point . . . .
An unarmed Magus build, 15 Wis required:
Esoteric Magus(4)/Master of Many Styles Monk(1)
Get an Arcane Pool wich counts as ki pool for the purposes of meeting feat and ability requirements on top of being able to use points from arcane pool and ki pool interchangeably at lv 4.
Grabs Deadhand Initiate with a regular feat and Deadhand Master at lv 5 with MoMS, ready to be fused with your favored style.
Too bad Esoteric is a rather bad archetype of Magus (it gives up a LOT). Also, you don't get a Ki Pool as a pre-Unchained Monk until you get to 4th level (and Master of Many Styles doesn't speed this up), so a 1 level dip won't get this going. Even if you are allowed to kitbash Master of Many Styles onto Unchained Monk (which is not Rules As Written), you still need 3rd level to get the Ki Pool going.
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^I'm probably missing some, but it's possible to get an early Ki pool as a Ninja (gets it at 2nd level, Charisma-based).
(I was also going to say Rogue with the Ki Pool Talent, but Rules As Written Unchained Rogue doesn't have access to that, even though it has access to an Advanced Talent to unlock a scaling Ki Pool, and pre-Unchained Rogue is just bad.)
Jistkan Artificer still isn't a great Magus archetype, but the tradeoffs do not reduce effectiveness as much as Esoteric; however, as a result of one of the tradeoffs, you do have to wait until 6th level to get a Magus Arcana, so this gets out of the realm of effective early build and into the realm of effective mid-level build.
I see what you're trying to do to get Deadhand Master early, but unfortunately, while Master of Many Styles gets you off the hook for the prerequisites for the starting feat of each Style Feat chain, it doesn't get you off the hook for the prerequisites for the later feats, so you still need Wisdom 23 and 14 ranks of Knowledge (Religion) to get Deadhand Master.
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That works too; Teisatsu isn't quite as good as Ninja, due to not getting a Vigilante Talent at 2nd level (whereas Ninja still gets a Ninja Trick at 2nd level), but if having a secret identity is your thing, it could be worthwhile. Dwarven Iron Within gets you just 1 Ki Point (non-scaling), and you might be able to trade out the Racial Traits it replaces (Defensive Training and Hatred) for something better; that said, being able to increase your movement speed by +20 for 1 round starts getting attractive if you have more Ki Points from another source (on the other hand, if you're going to be a Magus, you have the option of Bladed Dash and eventually its Greater version to give you a better version of this (even so, spending Ki Arcane Pool Points might be more economical if you just need fast repositioning in a zone where you aren't subject to Attacks of Opportunity).
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Not quite done by level 5 but,
kitsune sorcerer (nine-tailed heir)
nine-tailed scion trait
FCB gain 1/6 of magical tail feat for the first 6 levels
By level 5 you have 5 tails, by level 7 you have all 9.
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ok so something kinda nice for low level runs:
ranger (any race realy) with a Snake, Constrictor companion going for the mounted combat style, or can just pick up the feats he wants from it, will only focus so far at mounted combat and ride by attack, i go for mounted combat style for trick riding to get 2X times per round to negate an attack on the mount with a ride check.
the snake at ranger level 5 has :
str 24 (start with 15 +1 from table +8 from level 4 upgrade)- heaving an unbuffed str of +7 at level 5 in the group help a lot with breaking down lock\stuck doors etc
dex 16 (start with 17 +1 from rable, -2 from level 4 upgrade)
con 14 (start with 13, +1 from the flexable ability at 4 hd)
int 1, wis 12,cha 2.
+5 nat ac bonus (start with +2, get +2 from table and +1 from level 4 upgrade) - will wear light armor barding to get +4 more.
be sure to train him with the riding (so he can be used as a mount) and combat tricks (you should have just enough tricks with the bonus you get from the table. 'heel' is a trick in both). if your GM object for this animal to be used as a mount give him this link. (if you start at a level before 4 you can start with a horse up to level 3 and replace him with snake at 4+)
gain 2 feats from the table by level 5. pick light armor prof and hefty brute now he count as one size larger (he's large so huge) for maneuvers, capacity etc. he also has the grab and constrict abilities tied to his bite (1d4+7 when he bite and when he constrict) and got 20 speed of climb and swim, so can be like a comando mount that can get to almost any place needed.
drill is riding the mount with a lance for charging at X2 damage while seating on the back side of his 10X10 space that way the mount can get to bite + grab the target before you do, unless you ride by, but then you get to hit & run (and so you get to try and hit a grappled target for that tasty X2 damage from lancing charge with +2 for charging and +1 for elevation bonus, which seam to only be mentioned in mounted combat) and by positioning the first half of that massive 10X10 between you and the enemies most enemies would have to get through your mount before they get to you (this is where 2 times per round negating attacks on him comes into play).
get a bit harder to charge in close quarters, but still nice brute to have grappling your enemies. as a ranger you should get that level 1 spell that let him move in difficult area without being slowed to allow charging in more places. it last a long time.
also do not forget, an animal companion get to share his ranger's favored enemy bonuses (at level 5 its +2 to one enemy and +4 to an other). Tailor them right and he's hitting a lot harder and surer...
and last tip (this one is good for any class with animal companion that doesn't want to hustle with handle animal every time he try to give it an complex order) if you can -pick the Beastkin trait. for at will speak with animal of this type. (and +1 survival). i got you your family picture right here. this also help getting that scent ability of the animal into play with less hitches.
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ok so something kinda nice for low level runs:
ranger (any race realy) with a Snake, Constrictor companion going for the mounted combat style, or can just pick up the feats he wants from it, will only focus so far at mounted combat and ride by attack, i go for mounted combat style for trick riding to get 2X times per round to negate an attack on the mount with a ride check.
the snake at ranger level 5 has :
str 24 (start with 15 +1 from table +8 from level 4 upgrade)- heaving an unbuffed str of +7 at level 5 in the group help a lot with breaking down lock\stuck doors etc
dex 16 (start with 17 +1 from rable, -2 from level 4 upgrade)
con 14 (start with 13, +1 from the flexable ability at 4 hd)
int 1, wis 12,cha 2.
+5 nat ac bonus (start with +2, get +2 from table and +1 from level 4 upgrade) - will wear light armor barding to get +4 more.
be sure to train him with the riding (so he can be used as a mount) and combat tricks (you should have just enough tricks with the bonus you get from the table. 'heel' is a trick in both). if your GM object for this animal to be used as a mount give him this link. (if you start at a level before 4 you can start with a horse up to level 3 and replace him with snake at 4+)gain 2 feats from the table by level 5. pick light armor prof and hefty brute now he count as one size larger (he's large so huge) for maneuvers, capacity etc. he also has the grab and constrict abilities tied to his bite (1d4+7 when he bite and when he constrict) and got 20 speed of climb and swim, so can be like a comando mount that can get to almost any place needed.
drill is riding the mount with a lance for charging at X2 damage while seating on the back side...
There is no "sitting on the back half", you occupy All its spaces. It doesn't have reach, so you can't use a Lance and have the mount attack...
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can you link that? because as far as i remember when a medium\small creature mount a larger animal he decide in which 5 ft space he occupy.
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can you link that? because as far as i remember when a medium\small creature mount a larger animal he decide in which 5 ft space he occupy.
Combat: Special Attacks: Mounted Combat: Mounts in Combat
"For simplicity, assume that you share your mount’s space during combat."| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
well that goes straight to the house rules pile then. good thing they state it's assumed for simplicity.
if a medium creature is mounting a colossal creature no way in hell am i allowing him to reach each space next to it at will...
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ok so something kinda nice for low level runs:
ranger (any race realy) with a Snake, Constrictor companion {. . .} if your GM object for this animal to be used as a mount give him this link. {. . .}
From the Serpent Mount ability, it looks like this suitability for use as a mount is a special perk of First Mother's Fang Cavalier, not something generally applicable.
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Multi-attack Ratfolk Rogue - sure this one will have been done before but here it is:
Ratfolk, Unchained Rogue (Scout or Waylayer);1. Weapon Finesse (class), Sharpclaw;
2. Combat Trick (Piranah Strike);
3. Finesse Weapon Training (Claw), Sharptooth;
4. Weapon Focus (Claws);
5. Multi-attack;So you get a full attack of 4 attacks a round with a tailblade, admittedly the bite and the tailblade are at -5 before you take Multiattack however this is a build that can shred when it gets sneak attack opportunities.
I know it be but 3 attacks, but you could be a Tengu with bite/claw/claw all as primary attacks from level one [no feats required]...
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I know it be but 3 attacks, but you could be a Tengu with bite/claw/claw all as primary attacks from level one [no feats required]...Multi-attack Ratfolk Rogue - sure this one will have been done before but here it is:
Ratfolk, Unchained Rogue (Scout or Waylayer);1. Weapon Finesse (class), Sharpclaw;
2. Combat Trick (Piranah Strike);
3. Finesse Weapon Training (Claw), Sharptooth;
4. Weapon Focus (Claws);
5. Multi-attack;So you get a full attack of 4 attacks a round with a tailblade, admittedly the bite and the tailblade are at -5 before you take Multiattack however this is a build that can shred when it gets sneak attack opportunities.
Or a lizardfolk.
^Just realized that Tengu actually has an advantage for this:
{. . .}
Claw Attack
Source Advanced Race Guide pg. 163
Tengus with this racial trait have learned to use their claws as natural weapons. They gain two claw attacks as primary natural attacks that deal 1d3 points of damage, and are treated as having the Improved Unarmed Strike feat for the purpose of qualifying for other feats. This racial trait replaces swordtrained.
{. . .}
Having free Improved Unarmed Strike for the purpose of qualifying for other feats could be pretty important for some builds, and most natural attackers (including Lizardfolk) don't get this, and thus either have to spend an extra feat or dip Monk or Brawler (or some Monk/Brawler hybrid archetype). A number of Style feats and some other feats (like Improved Grapple and Greater Grapple) require Improved Unarmed Strike, for instance. Of course, the downside is that the Constitution penalty is going to hurt on a melee Rogue. Did some preliminary research for this; can't put together a build right now, but going to have to think more about this later.
^Yes, so it comes down to how badly you need a big Ki Pool (Ninja's Ki Pool scales with level, and Rules As Written Unchained Rogue can't even get one with a Rogue Talent, but even if you let them use the Pre-Unchained Ki Pool Rogue Talent, it doesn't scale until they also get the Unlock Ki Advanced Rogue Talent (which strangely is in the list of Unchained Rogue Talents even though Ki Pool isn't).
A silly Tengu question.
A Tengu has claws on it's feet - "Tengus are a race of wingless avian humanoids with humanoid hands, clawed feet, and a beak that resembles that of a crow or raven." Thus presumably the claw attacks gained with the Claw Attack alternate racial are with it's feet.
If such a Tengu gets claws from another source (say the Draconic Bloodline), would it have 5 Natural Attacks (2 foot claws, beak, 2 hand claws) or would the claw attacks not stack ?
I thought the same thing at first, but claws on feet are called talons in this game. It's just dumb wording in the Tengu's description.
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So I think I've mentioned here and elsewhere my fondness for optimizing using weaker, underdog options. Also I've been mining this thread and others for build options for villain NPCs instead of PCs. Anyway, I noticed this thread re: building a ray-focused necromancer.
A lot of the suggestions revolve around metamagic amd obviously ray spells. This prompted me to look at kobolds, specifically those with the NPC Adept class. A kobold with NPC levels has a CR of Class levels -3 instead of the normal -2, so a kobold Adept 5/Warrior 2 is only CR3.
That's 7 levels, giving them 4 feats. Spending one of those on Extra Traits/Magical Lineage, Wayang Spellhunter means they can lower the spell increase by 2 on a spell of L3 or lower.
Well, CL7 Scorching Ray shoots 2 rays dealing 4d6 Fire damage. Tacking on Burning Spell means any target hit by one of the rays takes another 4 Fire damage the next round. This metamagic will not increase the spell level at all b/c of the kobold's traits.
Because we're the GM and this is an Adept NPC, we're going to change the magic type to Arcane, then give the kobold Arcane Strike and Point Blank Shot as well. Finally, this kobold is going to be adding saltpeter to each casting for an added +1 damage to the rays.
He's flying around on a 5th level rhamphorhynchus familiar with the Mauler archetype so it is Medium sized. Anytime it swoops down to within 30' of a foe, this kobold is making ranged touch attacks +6 and dealing 4d6+2 Fire damage, +2 from Arcane Strike on every hit. The kobold's saves and other stats are pretty weak, but as a CR 4 foe if this villain survives to hit a single PC in combat, this foe has a good chance of inflicting 36 damage to that PC on round 1, another 4 damage on round 2.
That's a CR 4 NPC that could conceivably slay a L3 chained barbarian, while raging, in 2 rounds. And that's probably not even the most optimal build for a ray-focused kobold. I just...
You can't arcane strike with a ray....