Favorite low level builds...

[VoodistMonk]

Let's say a maximum of level 5, but I would really like to see some fun 2nd-3rd level builds, too.

To start, I will list a few of my favorites... a lot play off of racial features and only work with that specific race, but some are more universal.

Gnome Ninja 3... to my knowledge, this is pretty much the fastest way to have Bewildering Koan up and running. Hierloom Weapon for Starknife proficiency, Desna's Shooting Star at level 1. Max out Charisma and Bluff. You can use Ninja Tricks for Weapon Focus, and, if you continue, Dazzling Display... Empty Threats can trade Bluff in place of Intimidate.

Gnome Zen Archer Monk 5... another excellent Bewildering Koan build. You can get Bluff from a trait (like Fast Talker) easy enough.

Medium 1/Weapon Master Fighter 3... stacking Spirit Focus with Weapon Training is legit AF. If you continue, Spirit Bonded armor and Gloves of Dueling really complete this combination.

Nagaji Mesmerist 5... between the Nagaji FCB and Memtal Potency, Color Spray is scary.

Underfoot Halfling Disciple of the Pike Cavalier 5... Underfoot stacks with Bigger They Are for a decent defensive buff, and you get Weapon Training. Order of the Dragon is pretty awesome for Helpful Halflings and Aid Another.

[DeathlessOne]

What kind of rules are we working with? If Fractional BAB/Saves are in play, I have many shenanigans. Also, are we assuming a MAX level of 5 for their career or do we take in long term level 20 gameplay as something to consider?

[VoodistMonk]

I would like them to be as self-contained as possible, but I would always leave room for if it was to continue... playable, not just one shot campaign stuff.

Probably 25pt buy, none of that free/progressive/fractional $#!+... just normal PF1/Paizo stuffs.

[Belafon]

Yeah, rules and levels are the keys here.

At a convention one year I played in a "survival/kill as much as you can" level one game. Had a lot of fun with a Human Fighter using Weapon Focus, TWF, Disposable Weapon, and as many obsidian kukris as I could afford.

edit: ah, OK. More guidelines popped up between my preview and my post. :) Not exactly what you were looking for.

[Guardianlord]

A simple a fast combat one is Vanara Rogue (Makeshift Scrapper), take Surprise weapon trait, and multiclass with Core Monk (Of the empty hand). First feat is disposable weapon, then splintering weapon. Carry a lot of improvised fragile weapons, get improved disarm fast. Then hit all the things with all of the other things and make everything bleed as you confirm crits while doing sneak damage. Online level 3 with so many feats to spare after 6th.
Quick, easy, cheap, highly mobile with vanara climb, great for intrigue games, and fun to be totally not Jackie Chan.

[DeathlessOne]

VoodistMonk wrote:

I would like them to be as self-contained as possible, but I would always leave room for if it was to continue... playable, not just one shot campaign stuff.

Ah, glad I asked. There is a very big difference between designing something for a one shot, something for lower level play, and something for extended play.

Quote:

Probably 25pt buy, none of that free/progressive/fractional $#!+... just normal PF1/Paizo stuffs.

25 point buy is very generous, something you don't even see in PFS. Its generally 20 points there and 15 points for adventure paths. And, as far as Fractional BAB/Saves go (its from the Unchained Book), it just makes things less punishing for multiclassing classes with less than full BAB.

Let me think on it and I'll see what I have in my character vault.

[Wonderstell]

I think you remember the Fat Tail Kobold build from the previous low lv build thread. Some other off-the-shelf ideas scavenged from higher level builds would be the following.

Master of all
lv 2 or 3 (not class-specific)
Arms Master + Quick Learner means you can lower the nonproficiency penalty from all exotic weapons to 0. Buy a golfbag of them and go to town. The only "level restriction" is being able to buy all the different weapons you want to use.
There's a Vigilante build you can go for if you want to continue shuffling weapons beyond the low levels.

Long arm of the law, crook!
lv 2 Brawler (Strangler / Verdant Grappler)
The Crook. Use it to Grapple people outside of their reach, leaving them unable to retaliate. Since it is not using the Grapple Special Weapon Feature, you can choose to pin while using the Crook. Which pairs well with the Green Grasp's ability to tie up your target with summoned vines.

[Name Violation]

cavalier 2 (order of the cockatrice)/ rogue (thug archetype) 1.
take the feat skill focus (intimidate)

you're a walking AoE of fear.

Add helpful halfling , honorguard archetype, and you got a proper level 3-5 "threat"

[Magus Black]

Unfair Accuracy "AKA: Terribly Unsporting NPCs"
Ranger (Ilsurian Archer) 1/ Gunslinger (Bolt Ace) 1 (CR 1)
1st Level Feat: Deadly Aim

DEX Mod: +2
BAB: +2
Masterwork Gastraphetes: +1
Bullseye Shot: +4
Deadly Aim: -1
Total Attack Bonus: +8

Weapon Stats: +8 1d12+2 (3-14) 19-20/x2 120ft.
*Spend 1 Grit on Sharp Shoot to hit Touch AC at 120ft.

[Marina, Servant of Wadjet]

First, a few from a friend
Phillip, master of fire tattooed sorcerer (dragon, orc, or crossblooded if allowed)
Spell focus (evocation), bonus Varisian Tattoo (evocation, +1 CL), spell specialization (+2 CL burning hands), gifted adept (trait, +1 CL burning hands)
burning hands 5d4+5 level 1

Mawg, the unstoppable - few variations - unstoppable fighter/barbarian, orc atavism, etc.

Anything with an animal companion is really strong early, like half orc or human with the bonus stat to them.

[VoodistMonk]

Magus Black wrote:

Unfair Accuracy "AKA: Terribly Unsporting NPCs"

Ranger (Ilsurian Archer) 1/ Gunslinger (Bolt Ace) 1 (CR 1)
1st Level Feat: Deadly Aim

DEX Mod: +2
BAB: +2
Masterwork Gastraphetes: +1
Bullseye Shot: +4
Deadly Aim: -1
Total Attack Bonus: +8

Weapon Stats: +8 1d12+2 (3-14) 19-20/x2 120ft.
*Spend 1 Grit on Sharp Shoot to hit Touch AC at 120ft.

Reminds me of Vrern Downflower, a Warslinger Halfling Weapon Master 3... much less impressive damages, Vrern Downflower has... but unfair accuracy, he has for sure.

20pt buy (w/ racials):
12,17,14,10,14,10

Feats: Arc Slinger, Point Blank Shot, Slipslinger Style, Weapon Focus (sling)

To attack: (+11)
+3 BAB +1 Size +1 Mwk +1 WF +1 PBS +1 WT +3 Dex

To damage: (5-10)
1D6 +1 PBS +1 WT +1 Style +1 Str

[VoodistMonk]

Marina, Servant of Wadjet wrote:

First, a few from a friend

Phillip, master of fire tattooed sorcerer (dragon, orc, or crossblooded if allowed)
Spell focus (evocation), bonus Varisian Tattoo (evocation, +1 CL), spell specialization (+2 CL burning hands), gifted adept (trait, +1 CL burning hands)
burning hands 5d4+5 level 1

Mawg, the unstoppable - few variations - unstoppable fighter/barbarian, orc atavism, etc.

Anything with an animal companion is really strong early, like half orc or human with the bonus stat to them.

Point your friend towards the Elf alternative racial features Illustrious Urbanite which replaces Keen Senses, and Overwhelming Magic which replaces Elven Magic as well as Weapon Familiarity... these both give you Spell Focus... so an Elf can start the game with two different Spell Focus feats as bonus feats. I like this Industrious Urbanite Overwhelming Magic Elf as my entry for the Sorcerer 1/School Savant Arcantist X builds abusing the Bloodline Development Exploit.

And for your friend's unkillable build, they need to look into adding the Fey Foundling and Fast Healer feats to their list, and multiclassing to pick up the Resolve (for Unconquerable Resolve and Ultimate Resolve) and/or Mercy (for Greater Mercy and Ultimate Mercy) class features. I like Warrior Poet Samurai and Hospitaler Paladin levels, with a single dip of Unbreakable Fighter (at level 4).

1. Warrior Poet Samurai
2-3. Hospitaler Paladin
4. Unbreakable Fighter
5-7. Warrior Poet Samurai
8-13. Hospitaler Paladin

1. Fey Foundling
1. Weapon Finesse
3. Combat Reflexes
4. Endurance
4. Diehard
5. Fast Healer
7. Unconquerable Resolve
9. Greater Mercy
11. Ultimate Mercy
13. Ultimate Resolve

[Marina, Servant of Wadjet]

VoodistMonk wrote:

Point your friend towards the Elf alternative racial features Illustrious Urbanite which replaces Keen Senses, and Overwhelming Magic which replaces Elven Magic as well as Weapon Familiarity... these both give you Spell Focus... so an Elf can start the game with two different Spell Focus feats as bonus feats. I like this Industrious Urbanite Overwhelming Magic Elf as my entry for the Sorcerer 1/School Savant Arcantist X builds abusing the Bloodline Development Exploit.

And for your friend's unkillable build, they need to look into adding the Fey Foundling and Fast Healer feats to their list, and multiclassing to pick up the Resolve (for Unconquerable Resolve and Ultimate Resolve) and/or Mercy (for Greater Mercy and Ultimate Mercy) class features. I like Warrior Poet Samurai and Hospitaler Paladin levels, with a single dip of Unbreakable Fighter (at level 4).

Nice!

[Taja the Barbarian]

A Magic Missile build a friend of mine played...

[zza ni]

At level 1 a Undine with a bite attack (can gain from his class or be adopted by orcs\half-orcs for the tusked trait), and one of the 2 Undine alt racial abilities that give an acid breath attack ('Acid Breath' or 'Ooze Breath' both replace the sla) can take the feat Noxious Bite at 1st level which is the earliest one can gain access to a nauseating effect - and one he can use with every bite attack as well, not limited to times\day -like high level bombs\cruelties etc.
(some GM might limit it's use if he uses his daily breath attack saying he doesn't have the requirements anymore so he doesn't get the feat until it recharge).

Later you can pick up 'Ability Focus (breath attack)' for +2 to the dc.

anything that can flurry with a bite attack can make this into something very nasty..

remember

Nauseated:

Creatures with the nauseated condition experience stomach distress. Nauseated creatures are unable to attack, cast spells, concentrate on spells, or do anything else requiring attention. The only action such a character can take is a single move actions per turn. (so raw, not even swift\free\immediate actions)

[VoodistMonk]

zza ni wrote:

At level 1 a Undine with a bite attack (can gain from his class or be adopted by orcs\half-orcs for the tusked trait), and one of the 2 Undine alt racial abilities that give an acid breath attack ('Acid Breath' or 'Ooze Breath' both replace the sla) can take the feat Noxious Bite at 1st level which is the earliest one can gain access to a nauseating effect - and one he can use with every bite attack as well, not limited to times\day -like high level bombs\cruelties etc.

(some GM might limit it's use if he uses his daily breath attack saying he doesn't have the requirements anymore so he doesn't get the feat until it recharge).

Later you can pick up 'Ability Focus (breath attack)' for +2 to the dc.

anything that can flurry with a bite attack can make this into something very nasty..

remember ** spoiler omitted **

The Serpentine Bloodline Sorcerer and the Naga Bloodline Bloodrager both get bite attacks... both are Charisma-based and could be combined with Scaled Fist UnMonk and Feral Combat Training to Flurry with said bite attack. The uses per day would probably go pretty quicky if you were using Flurry, though, so the trait may be a better option (even though it is cheesy AF).

I do really like Noxious Bite on Undine Vampires... something about it just seems right.

[Zandragal]

More a fun build, but one I actually played:

Strong half-orc earth wizard with a flail as a weapon and a pig familiar.
You look like a farmer, fight like a fighter but in reallity are a wizard.

Chain Fighter gives proficiency with a flail
Earth Supremacy gives +1 to hit and damage in most cases a low level will encounter

[VoodistMonk]

Someone had this stellar first-level build using Medium and a Longsword... wish I could remember it better, or who posted it/could find the post. They had all sorts of traits and stuff really adding to what what they could do, I think they even had Burning Disarm as an SLA. Any chance this sounds familiar to anyone?

[Zandragal]

This might fit here.
It was about which bonuses you can add to damage cantrips and has a level 1 sorc build in it that deals 1d3+7 with a ray of frost.

[StonedBeholder]

Hello all,
Rogue-knife master level 1
Wizard-universalist level 1
Quickdraw

Hand of the Apprentice (Su)

You cause your melee weapon to fly from your grasp and strike a foe before instantly returning to you. As a standard action, you can make a single attack using a melee weapon at a range of 30 feet. This attack is treated as a ranged attack with a thrown weapon, except that you add your Intelligence modifier on the attack roll instead of your Dexterity modifier (damage still relies on Strength). This ability cannot be used to perform a combat maneuver. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier. The unchanged rogue allows the use of your dex on attack rather the str

[Tim Emrick]

I'm still figuring out how effective she is, but I'm having fun playing a halfling oracle in Legacy of Fire. She's a Lore oracle with the Community Guardian archetype; I took Extra Revelation at 1st level to take Sidestep Secret (giving her the best AC in the party at first level, with just a chain shirt, size, and Cha), and an AP-specific trait to boost her saves vs. fear even higher. She's working to qualify for the Healer's Touch achievement feat, so has been avoiding doing anything more offensive in combat than casting bless and holding a weapon to give her allies a flank buddy. Apart from Combat Casting (which she just took at 3rd), I expect her feats to be chosen more for utility and fun (like more Extra Revelation) than combat effectiveness.

At the opposite side, tactics-wise, is my dhampir warpriest of Pharasma. At 3rd level, she already has all three Weapon of the Chosen feats, so has gotten pretty good at dishing out damage with her dagger. IIRC, the plan is to pick up Power Attack next, and eventually take Vital Strike when she qualifies (at 6th, when her sacred weapon will do 1d8). She gets kind of cranky when asked to make skill checks, though...

[Darigaaz the Igniter]

Human cleric of Gorum, channel negative energy, 13+ str, high wisdom, Cha 14+, take the feats channel smite and guided hand. Now you've got Wis for your attack rolls and can funnel your smites into your greatsword all from level 1. Level 3 you can grab power attack and leverage the extra damage from the fact you're still using a two-handed weapon.

Dwarf cavalier (daring champion). 13+ str for power attack, otherwise high dex and good con and wis. A heavy pick is your one-handed piercing weapon of choice. Take the favored class bonus to add half your level to the damage from your challenge. At level 4 you gain precise strike. Now, you're now adding your level plus power attack on all regular attacks, plus 1.5x level when you challenge. Just at level 4 that's 1d6+4+4+6 not even factoring in your str bonus or weapon enhancement.

[Wonderstell]

Thread is still going on, eh?

Friend in every place
Lv 2 Cleric or Life Oracle (really, anyone with Channel Energy)
Human with the Silver Tongued and Focused Study ARTs. Silver Tongued allows us to improve someone's attitude by three steps when using diplomacy and provides a skill bonus. Focused Study grants us Skill Focus at lv 1, 8, and 16. Then Patient Optimist character trait (and Empathic Diplomat as a Cleric for Wis-to-Diplo).
Finish off with the Authoritative Vestments to perform an AoE diplo check against everyone within 60 ft as a swift action multiple times a day. You should have about a +18 diplo bonus for this.

[VoodistMonk]

Wonderstell wrote:

Thread is still going on, eh?

Friend in every place
Lv 2 Cleric or Life Oracle (really, anyone with Channel Energy)
Human with the Silver Tongued and Focused Study ARTs. Silver Tongued allows us to improve someone's attitude by three steps when using diplomacy and provides a skill bonus. Focused Study grants us Skill Focus at lv 1, 8, and 16. Then Patient Optimist character trait (and Empathic Diplomat as a Cleric for Wis-to-Diplo).
Finish off with the Authoritative Vestments to perform an AoE diplo check against everyone within 60 ft as a swift action multiple times a day. You should have about a +18 diplo bonus for this.

Perfect build for the Concilator story feat...

[VoodistMonk]

Fun with feint:
Warrior Poet 1/Snakebite Striker 3
For your Flourish, take Kitsune’s Mystique which gives you Improved Feint, and some fun [but limited] ways to use feint. Snake Feint then expands upon the fun ways you can feint, especially if you just happen to have Improved Feint...it's like Kitsune's Mystique "unchained".

Yet another Helpful Halfling Aid Another build:
Bonded Investigator 3
Give your Familiar the Mascot archetype, take the Effortless Aid Investigator Talent... take Combat Advice for more fun ways to help.

[UnArcaneElection]

For some reason I just now found this thread, which I definitely want to keep an eye on.

DeathlessOne wrote:

What kind of rules are we working with? If Fractional BAB/Saves are in play, I have many shenanigans. Also, are we assuming a MAX level of 5 for their career or do we take in long term level 20 gameplay as something to consider?

Fractional Saves actually prevents some shenanigans too. Without this, if you extensively multiclass in full BAB classes with good Saves, you will end up with monster Saves (hard to swing for Will, but you will get really high Reflex and especially Fortitude Saves).

[VoodistMonk]

Some love for Flame Blade Dervish:
Feyspeaker Druid 3, or
Voice of the Wild Bard 5, or
Fey Trickster Mesmerist 5
It's all about getting that spell on a Charisma-based class... that's where the magic happens. I have been too lazy to figure out a decent Shaman build for Flame Blade Dervish, though, as the class seems to have very little use for Charisma. Although, the Battle Spirit's uses per day and DC's are Charisma-based... Noble Scion of War @ 1, Flame Blade Dervish @ 3...?

[Name Violation]

In PFS you were allowed a free rebuild when you hit level 2.

I'd often run Honey Badger, The Mad Dog Barbarian. with a reach weapon
thanks to (pre-errata) Tribal scars feat (6hp) he had 21 hp at level one. and his animal companion, Honey Badger, the Honey Badger in front of him, ready to maul anyone who approached.

Honey BAdger (the barbarian) didn't/couldn't rage, so he left that to Honey Badger (the badger)

[Wonderstell]

VoodistMonk wrote:

Perfect build for the Concilator story feat...

Huh, look at that. Good thing the 1st level feat is untouched (if your backstory is convincing enough to let you qualify).

[VoodistMonk]

Switch-hitter, with PANACHE:
Hooded Champion Ranger 2/Arrow Champion Swashbuckler 3
Honestly, the order of the levels is irrelevant... I just like to start with Ranger because it has more skills and better saves. Either way, you get Panache with a bow, and all the normal Swashy light or one-handed piercing weapons. You get the Deadly Aim deed from your Ranger levels allowing you to target touch AC with a bow, and an Archery Ranger Combat Style feat without prerequisites. You get the Retaliation, Precise Aim, and Swift Switch deeds from your levels in Swashbuckler.

You could technically get away with only one level in Hooded Champion Ranger, one level in Arrow Champion Swashbuckler, and one level of Kata Master Monk... that would give you Panache with light and one-handed piercing weapons, bows, and unarmed strikes. Lol. But at that point, you don't even need the level of Swashbuckler to be Arrow Champion... you could even further expand your Panache to thrown weapons or Falcatas or whips or whatever clever archetype-specific weapon you want to add to the ever-growing list of ways you can use Panache.

I had a character named Variel, that had one level of Inspired Blade Swashbuckler, four levels of Kata Master-MoMS Monk, one level of Hooded Champion Ranger, and six levels of Kensai Magus... he could use Panache with his Rapier, bow, and unarmed strikes. He could interchange Ki and Arcane Pool with his Panache, too.

[Kurald Galain]

VoodistMonk wrote:

Some love for Flame Blade Dervish:

Or, Nature-Bonded Magus to get the flame blade spell with Spell Combat. Getting an extra attack per round does a lot to improve Flame Blade!

[VoodistMonk]

Kurald Galain wrote:

VoodistMonk wrote:

Some love for Flame Blade Dervish:

Or, Nature-Bonded Magus to get the flame blade spell with Spell Combat. Getting an extra attack per round does a lot to improve Flame Blade!

Oh fun... looks like it could have Flame Blade Dervish by level 5... not Charisma-based, but the extra attack could make up for the lower Charisma modifier. I like options.

[*Khan*]

VoodistMonk wrote:

Kurald Galain wrote:

VoodistMonk wrote:

Some love for Flame Blade Dervish:

Or, Nature-Bonded Magus to get the flame blade spell with Spell Combat. Getting an extra attack per round does a lot to improve Flame Blade!

Oh fun... looks like it could have Flame Blade Dervish by level 5... not Charisma-based, but the extra attack could make up for the lower Charisma modifier. I like options.

What about a Sarenrae Warpriest… or dual wielding Ranger?

[Wonderstell]

Battle Dancer Brawler has been part of many of my multiclasses. It's crazy how hard it is to find abilities that allows you to move while full-attacking. Dip two levels and you've gotten the gimmick, so it fits perfectly with the Magical Knack trait if you wanted some martial aid on your 6th level caster.

Big boi coming thru
Battle Dancer 2 / Swarm Shifter 1
Friendly Switch allows you to do a lot of ally shuffling when you effectively have three 5-ft steps per round. The swift-action size increase from Swarm Shifter (not a polymorph effect so you can wield weapons) increases the length of the ally displacement while also allowing you to share space with creatures.
Dwarven Heavy Axe-Gauntlet (part of the Close Weapon Group) is probably your best weapon for the 1d8->2d6 size increase, if you can't use the Versatile Design cheese.

[VoodistMonk]

Wonderstell wrote:

Battle Dancer Brawler has been part of many of my multiclasses. It's crazy how hard it is to find abilities that allows you to move while full-attacking. Dip two levels and you've gotten the gimmick, so it fits perfectly with the Magical Knack trait if you wanted some martial aid on your 6th level caster.

Big boi coming thru
Battle Dancer 2 / Swarm Shifter 1
Friendly Switch allows you to do a lot of ally shuffling when you effectively have three 5-ft steps per round. The swift-action size increase from Swarm Shifter (not a polymorph effect so you can wield weapons) increases the length of the ally displacement while also allowing you to share space with creatures.
Dwarven Heavy Axe-Gauntlet (part of the Close Weapon Group) is probably your best weapon for the 1d8->2d6 size increase, if you can't use the Versatile Design cheese.

I like this.

[zza ni]

Wonderstell wrote:

Battle Dancer Brawler has been part of many of my multiclasses. It's crazy how hard it is to find abilities that allows you to move while full-attacking. Dip two levels and you've gotten the gimmick, so it fits perfectly with the Magical Knack trait if you wanted some martial aid on your 6th level caster.

Big boi coming thru
Battle Dancer 2 / Swarm Shifter 1
Friendly Switch allows you to do a lot of ally shuffling when you effectively have three 5-ft steps per round. The swift-action size increase from Swarm Shifter (not a polymorph effect so you can wield weapons) increases the length of the ally displacement while also allowing you to share space with creatures.
Dwarven Heavy Axe-Gauntlet (part of the Close Weapon Group) is probably your best weapon for the 1d8->2d6 size increase, if you can't use the Versatile Design cheese.

i myself believe that 'Battle Dancer' and jabbing Dancer were made for each other.

(saves you up on the move part and jabbing style \ jabbing master just top it all up)

[strayshift]

Okay Human Court Bard Diplomancer/Enchanter
Note that this build was also PFS legal and for campaigns where language dependancy is not a huge issue this build is the bees-knees (I played it in Kingmaker).

Alternate Race Traits:
Focussed Study (= Skill Focus: Diplomacy) & Silver Tongued. Take a diplomacy boosting trait (say +2) and at first level you will have a diplomacy skill (with 18 charisma) of:
+4 (Stat) +3 (Class Skill) +1 (Skill Rank) +3 (Skill Focus) +2 (Silver Tongued) +2 (trait) +1 (Heraldic Expertise) so +16 at first level PLUS Heraldic Expertise gives you a reroll 1/day AND you can move attitudes 3 steps.

But wait there's more...

At 2nd level your versatile performance (Perform Sing) gives you charisma to sense motive and bluff so you will have about a +9 to +10 Sense Motive and Bluff. Later on you can get Disguise, Intimidate, Acrobatics, Handle Animal and Fly as well.

AND...

Your 3rd level performance 'Mockery' allows you to debuff enemy Charisma based skills so in 'social combat' you are a beast.

THEN there's your enchantment spells and your performances (YES these are language dependant but that's not an unbeatable barrier to most enemies).

Your first level performance is a scaling debuff called Satire which not only reduces damage to your party but makes save DCs for fear and enchantment spells higher. So from 3rd level on if you focus your feats on your enchantment and other magics you will end up a VERY formidable enchanter as well as having exceptionally high social skills (which can be further augmented by bardic spell buffs).

AND FINALLY... If all that fails you have the ability cast buffing spells too...

Finally as an option you could focus your feats on the enchanter side of things, be a 'standard' bard for combat or explore a different race, e.g. Kitsune...

[VoodistMonk]

strayshift, I love me some Bards! I see your Diplomancer/Enchanter, and raise with this witchmarket Hoaxer Bard (levels 1/3/5/whatever)...

Traits
(drawback) Umbral Unmasking
(faith) Strength of Submission
(regional) Voices of Solid Things
(social) Maestro of Society

Umbral Unmasking is hardly a drawback, oh no, I don't have a shadow. Whatever, it gets us a free trait. Strength of Submission because Sow Thought is a Bard spell, and "Razmir is great". Voices of Solid Things puts Craft on Charisma, and we will be crafting lots of cursed $#!+... like Witchmarket Coins, since Voices of Solid Things is a witchmarket-related trait. Maestro of Society is three free rounds of Bardic Performance, which we will be using to hand out our cursed $#!+ via our Buyer Beware performance.

Being a Drow would go with the Umbral Unmasking thing, and they [Drow] have an alternative racial feature called Seducer that adds +1 to the DC's of spells/SLA's from the Enchantment school, of which Beguiling Gift happens to be... our Buyer Beware performance acts "as per Beguiling Gift"... not sure if that's close enough for Seducer to affect the DC, but I really do like me a Seducer-Surface Infiltrator Drow Noble. Played a Drow Noble Arcane Duelist Bard, not that it matters. Lol.

Anyways, right out the gate you can spend the three "free" rounds of Bardic Performance from your Maestro of Society trait combining Bad Deal, Buyer Beware, and Personal Guarantee to convince someone to take a useless trinket from you that curses them a minute later... after you are long gone. Here, hold this for me. It's hilarious.

Your trait bonus from the Sow Thought/Strength of Submission combination will stack with the scaling morale bonus you get from Misery when you attack the people you trick. And it only gets better from there as you get more Hexes to curse items with, and "free" item creation feats to craft more cursed $#!+...

[VoodistMonk]

Constable Cavalier 2... Order of the Penitent... using a Lasso.

Let's say Human or Half-Elf for easy access to EWP:Lasso from the start. Probably grab Improved Grapple as the first level feat... since I doubt Quickdraw or Rapid Reload would help reset a Lasso any quicker.

The Constable's Apprehend ability gives you Improved Unarmed Strike at 1, and allows you to make a grapple attempt in place of the attack at the end of a charge. At level 2, you get a +1 bonus on Perception checks and combat maneuver checks to disarm, grapple, or trip opponents.

Order of the Penitent's Expert Captor ability states; "When determining the DC to escape bonds secured by the cavalier, the cavalier’s Combat Maneuver Bonus increases by 1/2 his cavalier level"... which, I would assume, extends to the Escape Artist/Strength check DC of the Cavalier's Lasso.

[Firebug]

VoodistMonk wrote:

Someone had this stellar first-level build using Medium and a Longsword... wish I could remember it better, or who posted it/could find the post. They had all sorts of traits and stuff really adding to what what they could do, I think they even had Burning Disarm as an SLA. Any chance this sounds familiar to anyone?

That seems to fit my level 1 Medium "Martial Pregen" character for PFS.

Human(Fey Magic, Adoptive Parentage)
16+2 Str, 14 Dex, 14 Con, 8 Int, 10 Wis, 12 Cha
Trait 1: Chosen of Iomedae (Start play with MW Longsword for free, Light 1/day and whenever anyone casts Light on this longsword it has double radius and duration)
Trait 2: Arodenite Sword Training (proficiency with Longsword, if you are already proficient +1 to AoOs)
Adoptive Parentage: Tengu do not have a weapon familiarity (they have Swordtrained) but otherwise qualify, so can take Weapon Focus(Longword). Or really any other sword-like object, but Longsword fits this character.
Fey Magic: Urban. Also gains Low Light Vision, but I think PFS turned off Fey Thoughts for Human. Guidance, Mending, Read Magic for 1/day Druid orisons. I like Goodberry here for 1/day Druid 1, but you can fit in the Burning Disarm. As you probably know, it's better if they save vs Burning Disarm at low levels and our DC is 12.

Medium 1 (no archetype), pick Champion Spirit most days, channel weaker spirit to gain 2 additional uses of Spirit Surge instead of Martial Proficiency/1 Exotic (unless you need the Exotic for a McGuffin)
FCB: +1 HP
Feat 1st: Spirit Focus(Champion)
Take Detect Magic and Light for Medium Knacks, since Light is more effective on your sword and Detect Magic is always useful even if you can't make the check to identify anything. Otherwise, Message to keep the party on Comms.
3 Skills to choose, I liked taking one for a day job(ie craft alchemy for cheaper Acid Flask, though you can channel Trickster on crafting days), Perception and Diplomacy.
150 gp: Scale Mail for 50gp (upgrade to Breastplate when you can afford), 50 gp potion of cure light wounds, and a few alchemic splash weapons (ir acid) plus backup weapons (kunai, morning star, longspear, etc). Alchemical weapons are very effective in our hands, since Spirit/Seance Bonus apply to their damage.

I would have liked to add in a shield, but no proficiency. Eventually purchase MW light steel shield for 159 gp after an adventure or two since 2h on the Longsword isn't much of a benefit compared to +1 AC.

Summary:
11 HP AC 17 F/R/W 4/2/2
+5 Diplo, +4 Perception, +2 Initiative
Almost always in 40' normal light with 80' +1 light step, and Low-Light Vision
+8 to hit MW Longsword for 1d8+8 1h or +8 1d8+10 2h
+4 to hit touch Acid Flask for 1d6+4 acid
Can add +1d6 to a failed Hit or Fort save 3 times before penalties (basically losing spellcasting, and Int penalty)

[VoodistMonk]

That's it. There it is.

[VoodistMonk]

I'm coming back to these...

Wonderstell wrote:

Master of all
lv 2 or 3 (not class-specific)
Arms Master + Quick Learner means you can lower the nonproficiency penalty from all exotic weapons to 0. Buy a golfbag of them and go to town. The only "level restriction" is being able to buy all the different weapons you want to use.
There's a Vigilante build you can go for if you want to continue shuffling weapons beyond the low levels.

There's a Gnome alternative racial feature that gives proficiency with any weapon you craft... could be pretty interesting being able to use any weapon you want/come across.

Wonderstell wrote:

Long arm of the law, crook!
lv 2 Brawler (Strangler / Verdant Grappler)
The Crook. Use it to Grapple people outside of their reach, leaving them unable to retaliate. Since it is not using the Grapple Special Weapon Feature, you can choose to pin while using the Crook. Which pairs well with the Green Grasp's ability to tie up your target with summoned vines.

I like how clean this is as a single class build... and with a Crook! Lol. Just awesome. Would be great to VMC Cavalier, for Order of the Hammer. You get your Challenge at level 3 with VMC Cavalier, and "An order of the hammer cavalier can attempt a free grapple check or free sunder combat maneuver check anytime she takes the full-attack action against the target of her challenge. This free combat maneuver does not provoke an attack of opportunity." I was hoping that the Crook possibly counted as a Quarterstaff, and would work with Stick-Fighting Style/Maneuver... but it doesn't. Drats. Still fun, regardless.

[Firebug]

For the Crook, since you succeeded on a grapple check on someone not adjacent to you, aren't they immediately pulled to an adjacent open space per the standard grapple rules? And since you were grappling with a weapon and the Crook is a Reach Weapon, you are no longer threatening an adjacent target with it, so the grapple auto-breaks?

[Wonderstell]

Good question. The answer is that grappling is convoluted and although never explicitly stated, using a weapon is implied to come with some exceptions to the normal rules.

An example of this is the Mancatcher. A reach weapon that uses the Grapple Special weapon feature. It comes with rules for what you can do after the grapple is successful, so clearly not meant to instantly auto-break the grapple.

Grapple Special Weapon Feature:

On a successful critical hit with a weapon of this type, you can grapple the target of the attack. The wielder can then attempt a combat maneuver check to grapple his opponent as a free action. This grapple attempt does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the creature you are attempting to grapple if that creature is not threatening you. While you grapple the target with a grappling weapon, you can only move or damage the creature on your turn. You are still considered grappled, though you do not have to be adjacent to the creature to continue the grapple. If you move far enough away to be out of the weapon’s reach, you end the grapple with that action.
***

"If you move far enough away to be out of the weapon’s reach, you end the grapple with that action."

This part is actually impossible with the normal rules for grappling, as the grappled condition prevents you from moving. The only movement possible is to take the "Maintain-Move" action but even then you move both yourself and your target the same distance.
My interpretation of that sentence is that it was intended that grappling with a weapon allows you to move around the grappled target as long as your weapon threatens them.

"You are still considered grappled, though you do not have to be adjacent to the creature to continue the grapple."

Again, same impossibility. But in this case I think "continue the grapple" is actually directly referring to the 'move creature adjacent' clause of the normal grapple rules as failure to do so results in a failed grapple.
So imo using a weapon to grapple means that you are not forced into pulling the enemy adjacent.

[VoodistMonk]

In juxtapose to the Mancatcher, the Crook has better damage and no restrictions for the size of target [other than the basic size restrictions associated with grappling].

And, just for fun, another low level Lasso build... probably Human or Half-Elf for easy access to EWP... Huamns can get EWP twice via Military Tradition, and that would allow us to be proficient in the Spiked Chain as well as the Lasso.

Bandit-Kidnapper UnRogue 4
1. Finesse Training (rope/spiked chain)
1. Sneak Attack 1D6
1. Clean Captor
1(race): EWP Lasso
1(race): EWP Spiked Chain
1(level): Equipment Trick (rope)
2. Evasion
2. Rogue Talent
... Improved Grapple
3. Finesse Training (rope/spiked chain)
3. Sneak Attack 2D6
3. Abductor +1
3(level): Throw Anything?
4. Debilitating Injury
4. Ambush
4. Rogue Talent
... Rope Master

Gear: Robe of Infinite Twine

With a Lasso, and Equipment Trick/Throw Anything, you have several ways to ensnare targets at range... you can use a knotted rope as a spiked chain up close... it probably doesn't work with Finesse Training due to being bludgeoning damage, but I would allow it. You could always just use a normal Spiked Chain, but what is the fun in that? Lol.

[Mark Hoover 330]

After watching all these lasso builds, anyone have a good grippili net build?

[VoodistMonk]

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

After watching all these lasso builds, anyone have a good grippili net build?

Probably a Wave Warden Ranger with all the Net Adept/Maneuvering/Trickery feats, as well as Equipment Trick/Improved Dirty Trick/Improved Grapple... but literally any Grippli net build will be good. Lol.

[UnArcaneElection]

VoodistMonk wrote:

In juxtapose to the Mancatcher, the Crook has better damage and no restrictions for the size of target [other than the basic size restrictions associated with grappling].

And, just for fun, another low level Lasso build... probably Human or Half-Elf for easy access to EWP... Huamns can get EWP twice via Military Tradition, and that would allow us to be proficient in the Spiked Chain as well as the Lasso.

Bandit-Kidnapper UnRogue 4
1. Finesse Training (rope/spiked chain)
1. Sneak Attack 1D6
1. Clean Captor
1(race): EWP Lasso
1(race): EWP Spiked Chain
1(level): Equipment Trick (rope)
2. Evasion
2. Rogue Talent
... Improved Grapple
3. Finesse Training (rope/spiked chain)
3. Sneak Attack 2D6
3. Abductor +1
3(level): Throw Anything?
{. . .}

One minor problem: For some bizarre reason, Equipment Trick requires BAB +1. You could interchange when you get Equipment Trick and Throw Anything to fix this problem. Or, since it's a Combat Feat, you could interchange it with Improved Grapple, although that has the disadvantage of having to use your instance of Combat Trick instead of taking Improved Grappple directly as a Rogue Talent (as Bekyar Kidnapper lets you do). Alternatively, since you'll probably have considerably more Dexterity than Strength, you're going to want to squeeze in Agile Maneuvers pretty soon (and it's more important than Throw Anything), and this doesn't have a prerequisite, so go ahead and stick it in at the beginning. Note that if you can also get Combat Stamina, Agile Maneuvers gets a LOT better -- every 2 points you spend makes you count as 1 size larger.

[zza ni]

ok so this one build can be done early on and grow stronger as you level. but it need gm approval to adjust a 3.5 feat (which is in the AON list) to pathfinder since it uses the hide skill. (and also the flavor text call out for it to be used by bugbears).

the 'IM B@TMAN' build
- scare your enemies to unconsciousness by sneaking and never showing up!

- you need the 3.5 feat 'sow terror' (which has the Stealthy feat as requirement).
- you need the 'Twisting Fear' Vigilante talent. (need picking the 'stalker' vigilante option for this and the hidden strike damage)

and... that's it! (a human can pull this off as soon as 2nd level)

now whenever you use stealth and the enemy fail to find you (hide skill from the 3.5 need gm approval to remake into stealth) and fail their save he get shaken, and because of twisting fear it takes your reduced hidden strike damage as nonlethal. Keep it up and you'll be knocking them out by hiding!

best part is this can effect a whole group as long as they fail their perception and save.

also nice is that it has very littlie investment (2 feats and talent, which can be useful with other things) so you can build out the rest of your character as you see fit.

[Wonderstell]

@zza ni

Something similar can be done with the Eerie Disappearance rogue talent (available to a Vigilante with the Rogue Talent Vig Talent). Intimidate everyone within 60 ft as part of a full-round action to enter stealth while moving.
Pairs well with a 'Human Shadow' ART Halfling for easy access to stealth checks.

Downside is that you need to wait until level 6.

***

@Mark Hoover 330

Believe it or not, more grappling.
Hangman Vigilante to weave your net into a noose, which you wield as a net and can grapple with. Net Adept turns it into a 10 ft reach weapon which has the previously mentioned advantage of grappling someone outside their reach.
It has some wonky interaction with the original entangled effect but should inflict it while you grapple, making it perfect for the Equipment Trick.