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Ok I know I asked for help a lot with builds but I'm getting tired of feeling useless in my party
With a Total of 42 (Rolled a 19) Still could not Touch the enemy. I landed one hit on a roll of 20 but that's a Roll 20
And this is like 5hr 4th time this happenedSo I like to Build a Magic Missle specialist (Really want Dazing Spell with it)
Want to Min max this character as much as possibleI will be behind party in Level (Party LV11 / I'll be Level 7)
I need help building a Level 7 build but plan out to Level 11 To 12
Need to overcome come SR as well the best I can
Any race (well almost) anything really strong I'll half to run by GM
Any pazio + 3rd party on caze by case bases
Assuming this is the same party as the 'SR31+ foes' post, there is something seriously 'off' with your campaign: You shouldn't be facing SR or AC that high at level 11, so it's kinda important to figure out what is going on before we can give any really useful advice.
First off, how are you getting +23 to hit on a Wizard 11? Or is this a different 11th level character? That seems very suspiciously high to me...
Was this an attack with a spell against Touch AC, or against normal AC?
Was the 42 result actually less than the target's AC, or did a 'miss chance due to concealment' come into play?
Are the other members of your party having similar issues? If not, what sort of stats do they have?
What sort of creatures are you actually fighting?
ADDENDUM:
- a) Assuming medium advancement, you should be about 120k xp behind the rest of your party (35k vs 155k), which means if the campaign runs to 12th level for them, you'll only be 10th level or so at the end (12th level starts at 220k, while 10th starts at 105k).
- b) Being so far behind the rest of the party is going to make you completely useless against creatures with SR (you now need a +13 or so boost to get back to a 50/50 chance of penetrating SR31).
- c) Magic Missile caps out at 9th level and the builds I am familiar with try to boost caster level early on (getting +4 caster levels at 1st level is rather impressive), so you're probably at a 'not great' level to start such a build.
- d) Flagged this thread to be moved to the PF1 'Advice' Forum
You should not be fighting a CR 20 as even a level 12 party. A fight that is CR 15 should be able to tpk a full strength 12th level party if everything plays out poorly for the party.
This reeks of "new player playing with a GM who has no idea what he is doing either so you both have no idea how lost you are."
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You should not be fighting a CR 20 as even a level 12 party. A fight that is CR 15 should be able to tpk a full strength 12th level party if everything plays out poorly for the party.
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Pretty much this.
Source
GameMastery Guide pg. 41
Table 12–1: Encounter Design only covers encounters from APL –1 to APL +3, so that CR range is the usual limit for most encounters. After all, for a party of four 6th-level PCs, an “easy” encounter (APL –1) is a “rival” group of four 2ndlevel NPCs (CR 1 each, +4 for 4 creatures = CR 5); if beating up NPCs one-third your level is easy, beating up even weaker creatures is more like bullying than adventuring. The risk of using very easy encounters is that the players may grow bored—they know their characters can deal with the monsters, but have to go through the motions of making attack and damage rolls without the excitement or risk from a “real” encounter. (Much like a “god mode” setting in a video game, the novelty of easily destroying all opponents gets old after a few encounters.) In some cases it’s acceptable or even a good idea to lead off an adventure with a very easy encounter—for example, if the players need a morale boost or have power-boosting abilities that require some kills to start functioning—but in most cases you don’t want to create encounters below APL –1.
The value of APL +3 should be a fairly hard limit for difficult encounters unless you want there to be a considerable risk of PC death. Once you’re beyond APL +3, the PCs’ ability to pose a threat to a monster dwindles, especially if the encounter is a single powerful creature rather than multiple ones on par with the APL. In most cases, this is because using a higher-CR monster may cross one of the invisible “break points” in monster design where the creature’s defenses and abilities assume the PCs are a certain level and have access to certain spells or gear, such as magic weapons, spells to remove ability damage, items neutralizing poisons or disease, or even simple things like being able to hit the monster’s AC or meet its saving throw DCs. If the PCs lack a critical spell or piece of gear, a difficult encounter may be nearly impossible.
For example, a succubus is a CR 7 encounter, and is an “epic” encounter for a group of four 4th-level PCs. Most PCs at that level lack cold iron or good weapons, and thus have to deal with the demon’s DR for every attack. The PCs may have difficulty overcoming her SR 18, energy resistances, and immunities, thus spellcasters will be frustrated. The PCs have even odds at best of resisting her at-will charm monster and suggestion (usually taking one PC out of the fight), and have to work very hard to make up for the temporary hit points from her at-will 6d6 vampiric touch.
It’s entirely possible to have an exciting and challenging fight (CR equal to APL +1 or +2) without overwhelming the PCs. An “epic” fight may last two or three hours of real time—a memorable fight if the PCs win, but a depressing slog if they can’t. It’s generally better to keep combat encounters to about an hour—that way you can get two or three encounters into one night of gaming, and make more progress in the adventure or campaign than a single, longer fight. If the fight you’ve given the PCs ends up too tough for them, don’t forget to remind them that they can run away, or you can cheat a little bit and suddenly treat the monster as if it had the young creature template (–2 on all rolls), which might be enough to turn the tide in the PCs’ favor—after all, you want the PCs to win, because that means everyone gets to keep playing. Killing them with an accidentally-too-hard encounter is no fun for anyone.
APL + 9 is a 'PCs should die horribly' type of encounter: You foes are very likely to succeed at saves, unlikely to be hit (except by touch attacks), and you've seen what SR can be like at this level...
@Mightypion, see "This reeks of 'new player playing with a GM who has no idea what he is doing either so you both have no idea how lost you are.'"
Even the above scenarios wouldn't technically be considered an APL+9 fight, because if you're fighting the things in the Balor and Solar's shadows, you aren't also getting XP for the Balor, which is alone enough to instantly push a level 11 party to level 12 if you awarded xp for it like it was.
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Why a new character should be behind other characters in XP?
That stuff was feasible in previous versions of the game, where different classes had different XP thresholds for gaining levels (D&D BECM, !st and 2nd AD&D) or where lower-leveled characters gained more XP when participating in the same fight together with the higher leveled characters (3, 3.5 D&D), but Pathfinder gives the same XP regardless of your level, and normally characters can't lose levels in any way (you can get negative levels, but not lose a level).
So a level disparity (XP, actually) will stay forever.
Sure, 120.000 XP of difference when the main characters are level 11, means that the new character will be level 7, while only a few levels more reduce that gap to a single level (level 14 requires 445,000 XP, level 13 315,000, the difference is less than 1120,000 XP). After the main characters reach level 14 the characters will even have the same levels for part of the adventure.
But in a system where you buy stats with the same number of points and where every bit counts it becomes a grating disparity.
Even more if there is an initial disparity in wealth. A character with level 7th gear in a level 11 adventure risks suffering from serious disadvantages.
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Oh sorry guess I should explain . It's an Archer Fighter I'll be switching out
Normal Ac using a Bow and arrow
42 was less than its Ac (Its a CR 20 Green Dragon)
Also we'll likely fight a Balor 2 at some pointNo in the party we have an Alchemist so Bombs = Touch Ac
We have an orcale who Buffs him self to where his own C IS ABOVE 40
and he lands like 45+ a lot on hisalso I sent this thread during the game cause i was pertty peeved
But guess the Gm feels bad and he'll allow me to start at level 11But I'm locked in to elf Arcanaist
But I want magicl misssle / target touch AC and deal big damage and daze my foes and such
So, a green dragon great wyrm, possibly with shield, mage armor, and maybe haste.
AC 46, touch AC 1, SR 31.Possibly even more if it uses that Ring of deflection it has in his hoard.
Seeing the touch AC, I can see why some GM can think it is an "appropriate" encounter if you have an alchemist in your party.
"The opponent should be a challenge for the alchemist (or whatever is the target class in the specific scenario)"
But that isn't the way to play a cooperative game. The goal isn't to have a single player "win" the encounter while the others twiddle their thumbs. The goal is to have fun together.
Especially when a single bad save on the part of the guy that should "win" is enough to doom the whole party.
Sorcerer Crossblooded comes to mind. Orc and Draconic. take the orc arcana for +1 daamge and then switch the bloodline to get blood havoc in evocation (need spell focus evocation at lv 1).
That way you will be adding +2 to every Die at least. So that'll up damage a little bit.
Crossblooded gets both Arcanas, and Blood Havoc can only be taken as a feat by that archetype. Resulting in +3 per die.
Draconic at base only gets it on elemental.
Unless you were applying elemental metamagic switch over I dont think you'd get the +3, just the +2 yeah ?stil Ihave done lightning magic missles. Honestly They're so much cooler in my head~ Blame Negi Springfield vs Takahata
Was about to suggest Esoteric Draconic bloodline for Astral or Etheric, but apparently they are bludgeoning damage… could have sworn they were force at one point
while Orc may be the only bloodline arcana that directly increases damage for force spells, there are several options that can still prove useful to take with crossblood.
Ectoplasm makes your spells more effective against incorporeal creatures.
Arcane is always good for metamagic.
Raksasha makes it harder to identify your spells.
Psychic is always useful since it lets you wear armor and use weapons.
Unicorn can provide some supplementary battle healing.
You won't be able to solve this with a new caster build. If the GM doesn't want a character to work, it won't work. The Shield spell can completely negate Magic Missile (as already said). Immunity to mind-affecting can completely negate Dazing Spell (IMO).
Talk with your GM about a solution. If he doesn't care, leave the group or play something your GM feels comfortable well.
Before addressing the CR issue; there is a prestige class from 3.5 called a force missile mage. Its a 5 level Pr class where your magic missiles do more damage, cause you shoot more of them, and they can punch through things like the shied spell that specifically call out magic missile. Things that don’t call it out still block it though. Now somewhere on here someone already converted it and for 5 levels it’s balanced. Pros it makes your one trick pony keep up with the party. Cons: your one trick can get boring and a clever GM for key fights can still shut down your one trick; but always hitting and always doing decently good damage has its perks.
Now the CR. How big os your party. I run a group from 5-6 players so it’s automatically CR+1 so at 6th level my common threats should be CR 7; the issue is even if I threw an above mentioned succubus and the party gear is “underpar” the action economy will still kill said demon in 1-2 rounds. During my last dungeon with this group; when they were 5s I threw a (in separate encounters) A CR 9 boss (one rounded by the way); 2 CR 6s (died in 3 turns), 2 CR 7s (died in 2 turns) and a test CR 9 (just to gage if it was too intense of a planned boss later)
The boss was a half fiend alchemist. During the surprise round his reaction (them bursting through the door) he flew up. To negate some of the melee. My players knew this was the boss fight so buffed before fight before walking through. Init was rolled; boss went last but at least was in air so can’t get physical mauled. Ranger got top of initiative. His preparation was he had 2-3 scrolls of nature ally 1. Summoned stirges auto hit auto con damage, only 1 point per swarm but con damage is still con damage, if I remember correctly that did 4-5 con before he, the only ranged none caster, one rounds the boss but rolling well with his shots (this is with DR shaving off points). If the stirges hadn’t been there, he would have had 8 hp still in a party with a wizard and cleric still to go although SR would have had a chance to save. In that fight it came down to good rolls, a good idea by players and boss going last; however in other fights the action economy really shaves the fear from a fight unless you’re swarming them with swarms (which I did earlier in dungeon).