PF2 but west marches style?

[Corvo Spiritwind]

Hope this isn't a wrong place to post this, but was kind of curious if there's anything like the 5e west marches style discords around, but for PF2.

Been itchy to try PF2 properly, but finding games is a bit diffcult with EU timezone. Even on roll20 they seem scarce.

[AceofMoxen]

I'm in a PF2 west marches discord server. Search for "Into the portal." If you DM me your discord your discord name, I'll ask the mods to send you an invite.

[AceofMoxen]

Sorry, that should be "Beyond the portal"

[The-Magic-Sword]

I do have one, although I don't think we're really recruiting at the moment since I don't have the bandwidth to run more and we haven't really seen enough other people actually running games, we're down a GM from where we thought we would be, and one of the remaining ones is perpetually overwhelmed, with the remaining one who isn't me only wants to run occasionally. The system works pretty well for it all things considered, ours is a pirate themed hexcrawl, I created a neat system of leads and voyages to facilitate player scheduling, and we used the treasure by level chart to develop a means for PCs to level up through spending treasure which is cool and really emphasizes the whole 'exploration and treasure hunting' thing.

[The Gleeful Grognard]

The foundry VTT discord community might be a good place to look, roll20 is extremely bad to run PF2e on imo. Fantasygrounds automates more and is a better developed system than Foundry but isn't as cheap / accessible as foundry. Foundry's PF2e community have done a lot of good work on their ruleset and it seems to be where PF2e players are settling online atm.

(I would use owlbear rodeo over R20 if I needed something simple tbh, it really is that bad for PF2e)

As for westmarch style games, I am not a fan of it for PF2e but it can be done. I would personally implement ABP and no level to proficiency rules though.

The reddit might be another good place to ask for resources for finding games.

[Corvo Spiritwind]

AceofMoxen wrote:

I'm in a PF2 west marches discord server. Search for "Into the portal." If you DM me your discord your discord name, I'll ask the mods to send you an invite.

Took a peek at it but nothing came up. Maybe discord hates me :( Mostly I'm just curious how active these things can be since my last experience with PF1 based ones was that there was a lack of interest.

The-Magic-Sword wrote:

I do have one, although I don't think we're really recruiting at the moment since I don't have the bandwidth to run more and we haven't really seen enough other people actually running games, we're down a GM from where we thought we would be, and one of the remaining ones is perpetually overwhelmed, with the remaining one who isn't me only wants to run occasionally...snip

Pirate themed hexcrawl seems interesting, especially making it treasure based. Will keep this in mind if me and my buddies wanna try starting something. Sadly what you've described is my last experience with pf1 based servers, just a lack of DM's and often players.

The Gleeful Grognard wrote:

The foundry VTT discord community might be a good place to look, roll20 is extremely bad to run PF2e on imo. Fantasygrounds automates more and is a better developed system than Foundry but isn't as cheap / accessible as foundry. Foundry's PF2e community have done a lot of good work on their ruleset and it seems to be where PF2e players are settling online atm...snip

I'll look into the foundry VTT. Not familiar with it. I've still not tried roll20 so thanks for the heads up. Anything in particular with PF2 that made you dislike it for west marches style game?

[The Gleeful Grognard]

Corvo Spiritwind wrote:

I'll look into the foundry VTT. Not familiar with it. I've still not tried roll20 so thanks for the heads up. Anything in particular with PF2 that made you dislike it for west marches style game?

PF2e is by default very power progression focused and has tight math for encounters which means drop in drop out are both harder to fill a world out with imo, and can get a bit skeevy treasure distribution. (Hence my supporting automatic bonus progression and no level to proficiency for any attempts)

It isn't unplayable, but I prefer something like the year zero system for westmarches style play (especially since exp advancement is per spend rather than per level)

Btw I am a huge PF2e shill, I just think it plays best with the default rules as a high fantasy system that embraces the scale innately.

[Corvo Spiritwind]

AceofMoxen wrote:

I'm in a PF2 west marches discord server. Search for "Into the portal." If you DM me your discord your discord name, I'll ask the mods to send you an invite.

Found my way into the server via reddit!

The Gleeful Grognard wrote:

Corvo Spiritwind wrote:

I'll look into the foundry VTT. Not familiar with it. I've still not tried roll20 so thanks for the heads up. Anything in particular with PF2 that made you dislike it for west marches style game?

PF2e is by default very power progression focused and has tight math for encounters which means drop in drop out are both harder to fill a world out with imo, and can get a bit skeevy treasure distribution. (Hence my supporting automatic bonus progression and no level to proficiency for any attempts)

It isn't unplayable, but I prefer something like the year zero system for westmarches style play (especially since exp advancement is per spend rather than per level)

Btw I am a huge PF2e shill, I just think it plays best with the default rules as a high fantasy system that embraces the scale innately.

That makes sense from what I heard. I'm just a huge nerd for persistent sort of theme, especially something simple like setting up a shop or trading items I don't need that I get during adventures.

[Ascalaphus]

West Marches style as in very varying parties, definitely not all the same level? Yeah I think that can get problematic in standard PF2. I would want to come up with some house rules/mini game solutions aimed at the party being able to avoid or escape monsters that are too strong for them, and come back for them later. I think it's very much in style for a West Marches campaign for players to actually organize a band of the strongest characters to take down a monster that's been a big red pin on the map for a while now.

Broadly speaking, that would require house rules with the following effects:
- Parties can figure out fairly easily if something is lower, equal or higher level, before engaging it in combat.
- Parties can scout out areas and decide whether to quietly take a different route when they spot a monster that's a bit above them.
- Parties can decide to run away from an encounter, especially one that is too strong for them, pretty reliably.

The reason this needs some house rules is because with standard rules, too-strong-for-you monsters will also tend to have higher Perception making Stealth unreliable, and be as fast or faster than the party so hard to outrun.

[Malk_Content]

Ascalaphus wrote:

West Marches style as in very varying parties, definitely not all the same level? Yeah I think that can get problematic in standard PF2. I would want to come up with some house rules/mini game solutions aimed at the party being able to avoid or escape monsters that are too strong for them, and come back for them later. I think it's very much in style for a West Marches campaign for players to actually organize a band of the strongest characters to take down a monster that's been a big red pin on the map for a while now.

Broadly speaking, that would require house rules with the following effects:
- Parties can figure out fairly easily if something is lower, equal or higher level, before engaging it in combat.
- Parties can scout out areas and decide whether to quietly take a different route when they spot a monster that's a bit above them.
- Parties can decide to run away from an encounter, especially one that is too strong for them, pretty reliably.

The reason this needs some house rules is because with standard rules, too-strong-for-you monsters will also tend to have higher Perception making Stealth unreliable, and be as fast or faster than the party so hard to outrun.

I think this can be resolved by not having monsters mostly be stumbled upon. I feel it is fitting for West March style games for one group of characters to find signs of certain monsters. Failing your check when discovering scat/tracks/other signs, is a pretty good indication that something might be out of your league.

Like you discover massive claw marks in the mud, and broken branches half again as high as a man. The druid in your party can't identify the creature based on these clues and so the party decides to make a drawing and see if more experienced adventurers in town recognize it.

[SuperBidi]

In my opinion, you need to use the Proficiency Without Level optional rule if you want to play a Westmarch PF2 campaign. It makes everything smoother, from having various levels inside the pary to stumbling on a higher/lower level opponent and have a balanced/interesting fight.