What class makes the best magical blaster, for damaging spells?

[Merellin]

So, I know that this is not the optimal way to build a caster in Pathfinder but I was interested in trying it anyway. What class would be the best for a full caster using damaging spells?

Most casters can still have a backup toolbox for when they dont want to be a blaster.. But sometimes you might want to be a blaster for the fun of it.

[IluzryMage]

Well first I've gotta ask, do you want to be ONLY a blaster or just mainly a blaster?

[Claxon]

Can I offer something that is a blaster but doesn't have spells?

And suggest kineticist? You can blast all day and pick up some utility ability depending on your element that can let you do some cool stuff. Even if it isn't full on spell casting I think you will have the most fun if your goal is to be blasting all the time.

[The Toaster]

Well... Wizard?

My preference would be Alchemist - but to be a "full caster", pure Blaster, I would say Evoker Wizard.

[Darigaaz the Igniter]

Raw damage: crossblooded orc/draconic sorcerer with blood havoc and spell focus:evocation. +3 damage per die.

more high level spell slots plus metamagic and spell versatility: admixture wizard with preferred spell. +1/2 level to damage, 3+int/day free element switch, all your spells can be prepared as something else then spontaneously converted to metamagiced fireball (or whatever spell you set as preferred) for no increase in casting time.

[Merellin]

@IluzryMage Well, Primarily a blaster. I want to be able to blast with a few different damaging spells, But also have some other utility for whe I dont want to blast.

@Claxon Oh, I do like the Kineticist. I have played one and it was much fun, I just wanted to try a full caster for once, But also be able to blast some with the full caster...

@ The Toaster Alchemist is by far my favorite class, I love them and they can do a bit of everything. :D But I wanted to try a full caster for once, But also be able to do some blasting with damaging spells. I'l take a look at the Evoker Wizard. Thanks. :)

@Darigaaz the Igniter Thank you, I'l look into the Sorcerer and Admixture Wizard. :)

[Dragonchess Player]

Arcanist with both the Blood Arcanist (Orc bloodline) archetype and the School Understanding (Evocation/Admixture) exploit can be a strong choice: gains both the +1 per damage die from the Orc bloodline arcana and the ability to switch elements on the fly with Versatile Evocation; plus, can learn/prepare any spell (versatile day to day and/or can be tailored for specific activities) while expending spell slots flexibly (versatile round to round).

However, the character has fewer spell slots overall and has to wait until 5th level to select the School Understanding exploit (either as a class ability or through the Extra Arcanist Exploit feat).

[Ryze Kuja]

Any caster can be made as a blaster tbh. That being said, I like wizards who get Heighten Spell and Preferred Spell as feats, and then select your favorite blaster spell as your Preferred Spell. The reason being that you can prepare every single spell slot as utility spells, and then trash them for your Blaster spell while pumping w/e metamagic feats you want, and on a per-cast basis.

So now you have the freedom to prepare utility spells and stay true to "utility is what makes a wizard a wizard", and then you also have the freedom to put dazing, persistent, empower, maximize, heighten, quicken, or w/e you decide on your blaster spell right then and there.

Another thing to consider is putting Wayang Spellhunter and Magical Lineage as traits on your blaster so you can pump MM feats into it cheaper.

[DeathlessOne]

Dragonchess Player wrote:

Arcanist with both the Blood Arcanist (Orc bloodline) archetype and the School Understanding (Evocation/Admixture) exploit can be a strong choice: gains both the +1 per damage die from the Orc bloodline arcana and the ability to switch elements on the fly with Versatile Evocation; plus, can learn/prepare any spell (versatile day to day and/or can be tailored for specific activities) while expending spell slots flexibly (versatile round to round).

However, the character has fewer spell slots overall and has to wait until 5th level to select the School Understanding exploit (either as a class ability or through the Extra Arcanist Exploit feat).

If you want to tack on Flumefire Rage, Raging Blood, and Mad Magic to your list, you can net yourself another +2 damage per die using fire spells. But ... your choice.

[Chell Raighn]

If you want to be a primary blaster with access to utility spells… might I suggest the Havoker Witch? They trade out their Hexes for Kinetic Blast and some Wild Talents enabling them to blast all day and freeing up their spell slots for more utilitary usage.

[VoodistMonk]

Dragonchess Player wrote:

Arcanist with both the Blood Arcanist (Orc bloodline) archetype and the School Understanding (Evocation/Admixture) exploit can be a strong choice: gains both the +1 per damage die from the Orc bloodline arcana and the ability to switch elements on the fly with Versatile Evocation; plus, can learn/prepare any spell (versatile day to day and/or can be tailored for specific activities) while expending spell slots flexibly (versatile round to round).

However, the character has fewer spell slots overall and has to wait until 5th level to select the School Understanding exploit (either as a class ability or through the Extra Arcanist Exploit feat).

I was going to say School Savant Arcanist with the Bloodline Development Exploit and one level of Crossbloooded Sorcerer. Probably go into Bloatmage if you want to nova.

[Andostre]

I think for the "best" of any build, you're going to want to invest in a level of system mastery beyond what is being suggested here. I'd recommend perusing something like Zenith Games' comprehensive guides list, and seeing what appeals to you.

If you don't want to get too fiddly with your build, and are fine with just a "good" blaster build, I've seen many of the suggestions here work very well.

[rorek55]

wizard, spell specialization, preferred spell, Ioun stone to increase CL, Intensify spell,

Battering Blast.

[UnArcaneElection]

Arcanist guide for you.

[Merellin]

Thanks everyone! You have given me lots to think about. :D

@Andostre I wasn't looking for the best build, Just what class is good for it. I am just very very bad at words..

[Andostre]

Merellin wrote:

@Andostre I wasn't looking for the best build, Just what class is good for it.

Yeah, I was wondering. I have to also wonder at how many other people asking similar "best" questions on this forum are not actually looking for specific builds, but more just a starting point to build a PC skilled in whatever they're asking about.

[VoodistMonk]

Andostre wrote:

Merellin wrote:

@Andostre I wasn't looking for the best build, Just what class is good for it.

Yeah, I was wondering. I have to also wonder at how many other people asking similar "best" questions on this forum are not actually looking for specific builds, but more just a starting point to build a PC skilled in whatever they're asking about.

Are we to the point where there are established "best" builds? What determines this? The DPR olympics? Have we boiled it down to actually KNOW which is best between Battering Blast and Fireball? Like is there actually one specific blaster build that unquestionably wears the crown?

[Mikemad]

Yeah "best" is a really hard thing to nail down unless it's not even remotely close. In most cases, even if you could nail down a best build, it would depend on the GM, the campaign, the level range, and the rest of the party such that it couldn't be standard on forums like these.

[Scavion]

VoodistMonk wrote:

Andostre wrote:

Merellin wrote:

@Andostre I wasn't looking for the best build, Just what class is good for it.

Yeah, I was wondering. I have to also wonder at how many other people asking similar "best" questions on this forum are not actually looking for specific builds, but more just a starting point to build a PC skilled in whatever they're asking about.

Are we to the point where there are established "best" builds? What determines this? The DPR olympics? Have we boiled it down to actually KNOW which is best between Battering Blast and Fireball? Like is there actually one specific blaster build that unquestionably wears the crown?

Sort of yeah. For RAW output, Orc Bloodline + Blood Havoc Sorcerer. If you want all the power of a blaster while still getting ALL the utility, you go Admix Wizard with preferred spell.

Battering Blast is really really good, but also interacts with more rules than Fireball typically does. A Sorcerer is good with both too.

[Mark Hoover 330]

I feel like "what's a good class for..." or "what's the best build for..." threads should have some kind of benchmarks in the OP. Like, say I want to make a "good" blaster type full caster PC. I might define "good" as being able to deliver 10% above the average HP damage expected of me, by CR, on the Monster Creation table. So, at level 1 I want my "good" blaster to be dropping 4.125 average damage with every successful spell, while at level 10 I need to hit 35.75 damage per spell, and finally at level 20 I need to be consistently delivering 101.75 damage.

Numbers and benchmarks might make it easier for folks to deliver recommendations. Of course, this boils all of PF1 down to a series of mathematical formulae, based on the numerical preferences of the OP.

Whatever the case, I love being a spectator in threads like this. Not only does it tell me how many different interpretations there are of "best" but it also delivers build ideas I have never even thought of/read up on.

My own personal suggestion to the OP is Wizard. Nothing fancy, don't need to do much more than Spell Focus: Evocation, Greater Spell Focus: Evocation, and then some metamagic feats like Selective Spell to make sure your pals are out of harm's way or the obvious extra damage ones. Just remember that all that damage isn't worth much if your enemy has immunity to the energy types of your spells, your save DCs are low or you can't beat the SR of your foes.

[rorek55]

Battering blast is also really good with arcane trickster.

[Andostre]

VoodistMonk wrote:

Are we to the point where there are established "best" builds?

We are at the point where there are people who believe that there are established "best" builds, I think.

[Andostre]

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

I feel like "what's a good class for..." or "what's the best build for..." threads should have some kind of benchmarks in the OP.

I agree 100%, but also keep in mind that many of the people making these threads are just beginning exploring the character they want to build. When they ask for "best," I always interpret it as a request for options to consider a class/archetype/whatever that's skilled at a certain type of thing. But I see many answers along the line of "if you select this specific trait, tied to this specific feat, the dps of this specific spell when cast by this specific archetype can put out more damage than anyone else."

Which is fine, because those sorts of specific builds do exist. I just don't think it's what most OPs asking for "best" builds are asking for.

But I'm sure some are.

[Melkiador]

Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:

Raw damage: crossblooded orc/draconic sorcerer with blood havoc and spell focus:evocation. +3 damage per die.

Note that you can't combine crossblooded with replacing your first bloodline power. But at level 7 you can take it in place of a bloodline feat.

[Lelomenia]

I think sorcerer is objectively better at Battering Blast builds just from Blood Intensity.

Fireball builds (which are pretty absurd for damage post Magic Trick) can use any of wiz/sorc/arc effectively.

[Scavion]

There are two main concerns to building a blaster. Damage dice in-of-itself is not very useful and sometimes you need to go around immunities/resistances.

How do I just kill them?

Main options are Orc Bloodline Sorcerer with Blood Havoc which nets you +2 to damage per dice with all the spells you care about. A 10d6 Fireball becomes 10d6+20. You can go Crossblooded(Draconic) as well, but I personally think Crossblooded's reduced progression is worse overall than without it. Any class or archetype that can replicate this is a solid blaster like the Winter Witch/Winter Witch.

Intense Spells Evoker Wizard gets 1/2 their wizard level to evocation spells. Not amazing, but still very handy.

False Focus(Alchemical Power Components): This lets you squeeze out extra damage on specific spells.

What do I do if they're immune/resistant to my bread and butter spells?

Admixture School for Wizards is the normal go to for Blasters. You don't really miss the old school powers for Evocation either.

Sorcerers need to pick up Elemental Spell Metamagic at some point or keep a few Metamagic Rods loaded up with it. Thankfully they're fairly cheap, but they are keyed specifically to one element. I recommend Acid.

All Blasters typically concern themselves with both Spell Focus(Makes you more likely to do full damage), Spell Specialization(Boosts your bread and butter spell) and Spell Penetration(Very few blasting spells avoid Spell Resistance). Mage's Tattoo is a great feat if you have room for it. Scribe Scroll is a great way to pack utility spells while you fill your slots with blasts.

[DeathlessOne]

I'm less interested in the amount of damage a build can put out, than I am with what sort of bells and whistles they can attach to the damage that either hinder their enemy further, or help their party. Or both. But, I am biased that way. I favor versatility over pure power any day.

[Sysryke]

Scavion wrote:

Any class or archetype that can replicate this is a solid blaster like the Winter Witch/Winter Witch.

Can someone give me a quick explanation on this please? I see Winter Witch/Winter Witch come up semi frequently, and I have no idea what folks are talking about. I know there's an archetype for Winter Witch, but where is the second identical label after the slash coming from?

[Kasoh]

Sysryke wrote:

Scavion wrote:

Any class or archetype that can replicate this is a solid blaster like the Winter Witch/Winter Witch.

Can someone give me a quick explanation on this please? I see Winter Witch/Winter Witch come up semi frequently, and I have no idea what folks are talking about. I know there's an archetype for Winter Witch, but where is the second identical label after the slash coming from?

The Winter Witch prestige class, I assume.

[VoodistMonk]

Yeah, the Winter Witch Prestige Class is pretty much just the middle half of the Witch's Winter Witch archetype. They just go together like that... you enter at level 7, even though you technically could enter the prestige class at level 6, so you don't skip the BAB... and you literally don't miss a beat. Sure, the Winter Witch is 9/10 spellcasting progression, but you can take Prestigous Spellcaster for that. The Magical Knack trait also exists, and/or the Orange Prism Ioun Stone. An Industrious Urbanite-Overwhelming Magic Elf can start with two Spell Focus feats, opening up a few slots for Favored Prestige Class and Prestigious Spellcaster [if you go that route].

As for blasting, the Winter Witch prestige class gives Unnatural Cold, which cuts through resistances, and Inexorable Cold which bolsters Caster Level and helps penetrating Spell Resistance. But I doubt it ever qualifies for "best".

[UnArcaneElection]

^Sure gives good Bad Touch debuffing along with the blasting, though. Combine the Frozen Caress Hex (which isn't very good by itself) available to the archetype with the Numbing Chill Major Hex, and now when you cast a Bad Touch spell that normally isn't a Cold spell and the target fails its Fortitude Save, it becomes a Cold spell (Frozen Caress) and thereby does Dexterity Damage to and Staggers the target (Numbing Chill). Note that the Bad Touch spell could be one that does damage by some means other than being a Cold spell -- in that case, these Hexes add insult to injury. Numbing Chill is also nice to have against the boss (or other key) target when you cut loose with an outright Cold blast (which doesn't have to be a Touch spell), although it only affects one target (so get Rime Spell for multi-target debuffing on your Cold blasts).

[Michael Talley 759]

Sorcerer

Depending on the type of blasting you pick bloodlines to improve damage.

You cannot lose a spellbook, you are the spellbook

which holds at level 1 and upwards effectively.

Feats and such make your spell choices more effective, at which point you pick AOE Spells and Ray spells for Sniping.

I generally go with Fire/Water Elemental Bloodline and then take Cold/Fire Spells as you can freely change the energy type on casting.

Burning Hands (Freezing Hands)

It doesn't increase your damage output, but it does make it harder or more expensive to resist both versions of your Arcane power.

[Mark Hoover 330]

What level do you think this campaign is going to get to? Like, at 20th level the expected damage output against CR20 creatures is 92.5 damage. Clashing Rocks carries a Ref save but deals Bludgeoning with no SR, delivering an average of 70 damage. For the added 22.5 damage, the vanilla wizard might either have a quickened spell or has their familiar using a ray from a scroll, so long as the familiar has a high enough UMD.

While the other builds upthread deal MORE damage than a vanilla wizard or Sorcerer for that matter, I'm just saying that vanilla Core classes can still get the job done. It really comes back to what I was saying above... what benchmark do you need the blaster to hit in order to be "best?"

If your GM is using monsters straight out of the Bestiaries or is running an AP with no modifications, I don't know that you need to go by anything more than the core classes and feats for your build. On the other hand if your GM is running a homebrew where they need to mod monsters or create custom NPC villains to keep pace with a rage-pouncing barbarian DPR machine, chances are you'll want one of these specialized builds with extra gas in the tank.

[Scavion]

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

What level do you think this campaign is going to get to? Like, at 20th level the expected damage output against CR20 creatures is 92.5 damage. Clashing Rocks carries a Ref save but deals Bludgeoning with no SR, delivering an average of 70 damage. For the added 22.5 damage, the vanilla wizard might either have a quickened spell or has their familiar using a ray from a scroll, so long as the familiar has a high enough UMD.

While the other builds upthread deal MORE damage than a vanilla wizard or Sorcerer for that matter, I'm just saying that vanilla Core classes can still get the job done. It really comes back to what I was saying above... what benchmark do you need the blaster to hit in order to be "best?"

If your GM is using monsters straight out of the Bestiaries or is running an AP with no modifications, I don't know that you need to go by anything more than the core classes and feats for your build. On the other hand if your GM is running a homebrew where they need to mod monsters or create custom NPC villains to keep pace with a rage-pouncing barbarian DPR machine, chances are you'll want one of these specialized builds with extra gas in the tank.

The math kind of breaks down in the later levels because most things dangerous are "Fail a saving throw or be incapacitated probably forever" so you need to kill things in 1 round or severely injure them to the point where they can't use their optimal tactics. Clashing Rocks is neat, but is subject to DR which most high CR enemies have some form of typically. That math also assumes that everyone is dealing perfectly equal distributions where some party members may not be able to effectively do anything some turns or be unable to meaningfully contribute. In this fairly common situation, you want to be able to punch far above your weight class.

When it comes to Vanilla Core, blasters pretty much don't work well at all and are in fact fairly miserable. You're missing Metamagic Master for your bread and butter, Elemental Spell for flexibility, and pretty much all the normal means of amping damage. It's just not...fun being a blaster in Core. Nothing really WOWs.

Even in my home games with extensive house rules for helping characters get off the ground smoother, we still have people regularly dying in APs as written(Sometimes the advanced template gets thrown around). It's not really BIG stats or custom NPCs that kill people. It's the enemy tactics and abilities.

[rorek55]

Scavion wrote:

The math kind of breaks down in the later levels because most things dangerous are "Fail a saving throw or be incapacitated probably forever" so you need to kill things in 1 round or severely in

Or, don't fail the save. Its pretty simple do have a character that doesn't care much about saving throws. Without much loss combat wise.

[Kurald Galain]

Scavion wrote:

The math kind of breaks down in the later levels because most things dangerous are "Fail a saving throw or be incapacitated probably forever" so you need to kill things in 1 round

Or, you know, have teammates that can fix whatever is incapacitating you :D

Quote:

It's just not...fun being a blaster in Core. Nothing really WOWs.

I'd say a lot of classes or builds don't really "WOW" in core-only. That's not an issue with blasters, that's an issue with core.

[rorek55]

Kurald Galain wrote:

Quote:

It's just not...fun being a blaster in Core. Nothing really WOWs.

I'd say a lot of classes or builds don't really "WOW" in core-only. That's not an issue with blasters, that's an issue with core.

IDK, Druids are pretty great in Core.

[Kurald Galain]

rorek55 wrote:

Kurald Galain wrote:

I'd say a lot of classes or builds don't really "WOW" in core-only. That's not an issue with blasters, that's an issue with core.

IDK, Druids are pretty great in Core.

Yes, that's why I said "a lot of" classes, not "all" classes.

[Dark Immortal]

Call me strange, but I'm a fan of the Geyser mage.

[UnArcaneElection]

^I can't find a Geyser Mage on www.d20pfsrd.com or Archives of Nethys. Is this a type of build?

[Te'Shen]

UnArcaneElection wrote:

I can't find a Geyser Mage on www.d20pfsrd.com or Archives of Nethys. Is this a type of build?

If I had to guess, I'd think it was a build using specialized spells like air geyser and geyser for a thematic effect.

The idea seems fun, but I'm not sure how useful it'd actually be.

[Azothath]

Merellin wrote:

... What class would be the best for a full caster using damaging spells?

Most casters can still have a backup toolbox for when they don't want to be a blaster.. But sometimes you might want to be a blaster for the fun of it.

well, Wizard, specialize in one of: evocation, divination, or conjuration. Also see if the old Summoner class is allowed (spell levels on your spell list is borked). Do not go into Thassalonian or other specialties. Choose a bonded object (amulet) rather than a familiar. Wizard beats Arcanist and Sorcerer as levels rise past 7th and it gives you more help with your magic items and spell lists.

Race can also help; Aasimar, Samsaran(Mythic Past Lives), and a race that works with your school.

The best Blaster is one that doesn't focus too much on blasting so they have other powerful options in case the blasting doesn't work or isn't an optimal action. Knowledge of how to use your spells effectively and in a situation is the key to a more powerful wizard. It is more likely that buffing your party will do more damage than the extra points from specializing your blasts and will save them from being hit as often keeping them up and swinging.

the Class Guides

Items that can save you

[Doompatrol]

I would say Sorcerer based on these criteria.

Spells slots, blasting is not a precision playstyle, you're a hammer and you will need to use up more resources being a hammer.

No awkward or cheese builds are required. Out of the box, lots of bloodlines strongly support it, as well as mutations. You can optimise with crossblood if you want, but it's not required.

Sorcerer/Wizard spell list has the best blast spells.

Kineticist is good for single targets but they where really stingy with area effects, very few good options until very high level.