Could I get some help adjusting my character, I think I may have made a few mistakes?


Advice


For my first game of Pathfinder 2E, I decided to make my own character and not use the Pre-gen that the DM offered me in advance, whilst I had never made a character in 2E before I have a few years of experience playing (and therefore making characters in) 1E, so I felt pretty confident but when it came to actually play my first game, I felt like no matter what I did I just wasn't as effective as the rest of the party, so I was hoping that you may be able to give me a few pointers in character creation and could hopefully suggest some adjustments that I could make to my character before the next game, as this is a PFS character you can make any changes you want before you reach level 2 - Thanks in advance

Class: Rogue (Eldritch Trickster)
Race: Half-Orc
Background: Street Urchin

Ability Scores;
Strength: 14
Dexterity: 14
Constitution: 12
Intelligence: 18
Wisdom: 10
Charisma: 10

Feats;
Iron Fists
Pickpocket
Cat Fall
Nimble Dodge
Wizard Dedication

Spells;
Shield
Detect Magic
Mage Hand
Produce Flame

In combat, my usual plan would be to either attack the enemies with a Produce Flame Spell or to attempt to flank them and attack them with my unarmed strikes

If you require any more information please do let me know


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Mainly put Dexterity at 18 and Intelligence at 16 I believe as you are still mainly a martial character, the feats are fine.


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A few tips:

1- Raise dex to 16 and lower str to 10 ( swap wis to 12 ). Sometimes you'll find yourself unable to cast due to an enemy with attack of opportunity. Consider that produce flame is going to trigger AoO like any other spell ( look at point 2 ). If you plan to go eldritch trickster, don't you dare to lower int to 16 and raise dex to 18 or you'll regret later.

2- Consider getting different damaging cantrips like

+ Telekinetic Projectile
+ Ray of frost

The former to get a higher damage die, and the latter for ranged targets ( 120 feet vs 30 feet of both flame and projektile ).

3- Don't raise STR. Consider instead to invest in DEX, CON, INT, WIS at any level. You won't need it that much.

4- Consider to take a finesse weapon as well as a longbow ( for example, if you are against a flying target immune to cold damage, you could easily swap to physical with a great range increment ).

5- Consider to get mobility by lvl 2 ( you'd stride at half speed without triggering reactions ). Pretty handy to join or leave the fight.

6- Consider to take orc sight ( you can only take it at lvl 1, and darkvision is too nice not to take it ) instead of iron fists. Consider also to get pervasive supersition by lvl 9 ( ancestral paragon = orc superstition + lvl 9 feat > pervasive superstition ).


Yeah not having dex at 16 or 18 is your problem here.

Also if you're flanking you should be casting gouging claws.


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1) Eldritch Trickster is basically a trap option. Even full casters can barely make ranged spell attacks work long-term and that's only with true strike (from a staff of diviniation mostly).

2) Following the above, ET is basically just a free dedication feat. You can replicate this by just taking the dedication feat itself at 2nd level.

3) As others have stated above, dex should be your main stat and it needs to be 18. Some say 16 is acceptable but the moment you come up against anything moderately threatening you'll be regretting the permanent -1 to your attacks.

4) If you're set on the wizard dedication, understand that anything with a DC or attack roll should be avoided, because your dedication proficiency doesn't cut it. Again, eldritch trickster is a trap so your best bet for this would be thief racket so you can dump str and invest in int to meet the prerequisite.


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gesalt wrote:

1) Eldritch Trickster is basically a trap option. Even full casters can barely make ranged spell attacks work long-term and that's only with true strike (from a staff of diviniation mostly).

2) Following the above, ET is basically just a free dedication feat. You can replicate this by just taking the dedication feat itself at 2nd level.

3) As others have stated above, dex should be your main stat and it needs to be 18. Some say 16 is acceptable but the moment you come up against anything moderately threatening you'll be regretting the permanent -1 to your attacks.

4) If you're set on the wizard dedication, understand that anything with a DC or attack roll should be avoided, because your dedication proficiency doesn't cut it. Again, eldritch trickster is a trap so your best bet for this would be thief racket so you can dump str and invest in int to meet the prerequisite.

Alternatively I hear good things about scoundrel racket, but it definitely doesn't fit the OP build theme.

Mastermind with level 2 class feat going to wizard dedication could also work good.

ET is very much a waste of racket IMO. It's main advantage is being able to slap stupefied as a debilitation later on.


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It looks like the character you want to play is actually a Magus; if a Rogue takes magic stuff its for utility purposes, unfortunately all of the magic attacking stuff in Rogue is very poor. Laughing Shadow with Arcane Fists as your first feat is pretty much exactly what you're doing here except far more functional. You'll still want to change your ability scores for this (18 STR/16 INT/12 DEX or 18 DEX/14 STR/14 INT both possibilities).

Shadow Lodge

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I have to agree with most of the other posts that Eldritch Trickster is not a particularly good racket and I'd strongly recommend against taking it on your first character: Once you get a better feel for the game mechanics and a little system mastery, then you could give it some consideration...

Eldritch Trickster basically give you three things:

    1) Allows you to apply your 'class' stat buff to your casting stat rather than Dexterity. Considering how few spell slots you will get and how poorly your casting proficiency will scale, this is a bit questionable as a benefit.
    2) You start with a multiclass spellcasting archetype, which is basically just a 2nd level class feat.
    3) You can take Magical Trickster as a 2nd level feat instead of as a 4th level feat. While this sounds nice, actually getting a sneak attack with a spell is kinda awkward in general (RAW, spell casting breaks stealth before you attack so your foe isn't flat-footed, flanking only works in melee, and a lot of your spells will provoke opportunity attacks).
Also note that buff spells tend to have really short durations in this edition: Most will expire after one fight if you stop to heal or search afterwards...


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Arachnofiend wrote:
It looks like the character you want to play is actually a Magus; if a Rogue takes magic stuff its for utility purposes, unfortunately all of the magic attacking stuff in Rogue is very poor. Laughing Shadow with Arcane Fists as your first feat is pretty much exactly what you're doing here except far more functional. You'll still want to change your ability scores for this (18 STR/16 INT/12 DEX or 18 DEX/14 STR/14 INT both possibilities).

Lots of good advice in here, but I think this is the best. The magus chassis is much better suited to what you're doing, and comes with a sneak attack like mechanic AND a teleport focus spell to help you get into flanks. You'll also have a wider array of spells you can use in melee. There's even a sample build straight out of the book you can use.

You can then use your ancestry feat to take Natural Ambition and pick up the Arcane Fist Magus class feat, which will upgrade the damage die on your fists and give you the option to switch between lethal and nonlethal at will. Plus it makes your fists magic and eventually gets you the critical specialization of unarmed strikes, which is really good.

You might find this guide helpful.. The basic principles at the beginning apply to any PF2 build, and class descriptions may help you decide if you want to go Magus or stay Rogue.


A lot of posts here about just not playing an Eldridge Trickster. While they may be better off with a thief or mastermind, I'm not sure if that's actually answering their questions. I think HumbleGamer has the right idea. Another thing to add, you can flank with spell attack rolls. Wizard archetype is gonna give you access to their school specific focus spells, take a look through those. There's some good ones. Crafting and arcana are gonna be handy in adding more spells and making scrolls. Focus on utility mainly for your slots and scrolls. Maybe keep one open for scorching ray, it's great with surprise attack.


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It's funny to see how this post is going.

Eldritch Trickster is not a trap option at all, there are a lot of things that are extremely interesting to do with it (as a side note, I play one).

First, if you want to play an Eldritch Trickster, you need to use a ranged weapon. Melee weapons just don't work (for action economy issue as you need to cast a spell and make one attack per round to maximize your efficiency).
So you don't really need Strength. Going at 16 Dex is a necessity. You don't have to go to 18 if you choose Intelligence as your main stat (and that's fine).
Electric Arc + Strike will be your bread and butter at low level. Once you reach level 6 you can have basic spellcasting and Dread Striker. Dread Striker allows you to get Sneak Attack against Frightened foes. With Basic Spellcasting you can have a few Fear spells to make a Fear + Strike (with Sneak Attack) round.
Magical Trickster doesn't work fine. I haven't found a way to get anything out of it. I agree that it should be avoided.

Overall, as an Eldritch Trickster, you'll be a debuffer as much as a damage dealer, as giving the Frightened condition is nearly a necessity for you.


As a side note, as you can review your character entirely:

Intelligence is the least functional main attribute for an Eldritch Trickster.
Charisma gives you access to Demoralize so you can Frighten with one action.
Wisdom is considered the best stat, giving you great saves and high Perception (and high Initiative rolls when you don't need Surprise Attack).

Also, it looks like you chose Arcane as spell list. It's a strong choice but there are other lists with great assets. The best spells are:
- Electric Arc (but you can get it through an Ancestry feat like Adapted Cantrip as a Half Orc).
- Fear (all lists).
- Haste and Invisibility are very nice.
- Healing is important. Drawing a scroll and casting a 2-action Heal or Soothe can save the day.
- Other buffs (Heroism for example) are always nice to have.
- Utility (always nice to have scrolls to solve a lot of situations).

In my opinion, the best spell list to have for an Eldritch Trickster is Occult. The worse is Divine, as it gives you nothing interesting. Arcane and Primal are roughly equivalent.
If you want to stay Intelligence-based, Witch can give you access to all spell lists.

Also, you should consider Focus Spells. Gaining one (one feat) means that you'll cast a spell per fight. It's the easiest way to gain more casting. I don't know all of them, but among the good ones you have:
- Fey Disappearance: 1-action greater Invisibility. Only issue, it's level 12 and 3 feats.
- Horrific Visage: At-will Fear. Same issue.
- Blinding Beauty: Same drawback.
- Fire Ray and Elemental Toss: If you really want to use Magical Trickster, then they're the best.
- Vision of Weakness: Cheap True Strike.
- Life Boost: 1-action healing.


SuperBidi wrote:

It's funny to see how this post is going.

Eldritch Trickster is not a trap option at all, there are a lot of things that are extremely interesting to do with it (as a side note, I play one).

First, if you want to play an Eldritch Trickster, you need to use a ranged weapon. Melee weapons just don't work (for action economy issue as you need to cast a spell and make one attack per round to maximize your efficiency).
So you don't really need Strength. Going at 16 Dex is a necessity. You don't have to go to 18 if you choose Intelligence as your main stat (and that's fine).
Electric Arc + Strike will be your bread and butter at low level. Once you reach level 6 you can have basic spellcasting and Dread Striker. Dread Striker allows you to get Sneak Attack against Frightened foes. With Basic Spellcasting you can have a few Fear spells to make a Fear + Strike (with Sneak Attack) round.
Magical Trickster doesn't work fine. I haven't found a way to get anything out of it. I agree that it should be avoided.

Overall, as an Eldritch Trickster, you'll be a debuffer as much as a damage dealer, as giving the Frightened condition is nearly a necessity for you.

This is a completely different character from what the OP was trying to build; I do agree that there are effective things that can be done with the ET chassis but "attack with produce flame and unarmed strikes" is not one of them, that's a Magus through and through.


Arachnofiend wrote:
SuperBidi wrote:

It's funny to see how this post is going.

Eldritch Trickster is not a trap option at all, there are a lot of things that are extremely interesting to do with it (as a side note, I play one).

First, if you want to play an Eldritch Trickster, you need to use a ranged weapon. Melee weapons just don't work (for action economy issue as you need to cast a spell and make one attack per round to maximize your efficiency).
So you don't really need Strength. Going at 16 Dex is a necessity. You don't have to go to 18 if you choose Intelligence as your main stat (and that's fine).
Electric Arc + Strike will be your bread and butter at low level. Once you reach level 6 you can have basic spellcasting and Dread Striker. Dread Striker allows you to get Sneak Attack against Frightened foes. With Basic Spellcasting you can have a few Fear spells to make a Fear + Strike (with Sneak Attack) round.
Magical Trickster doesn't work fine. I haven't found a way to get anything out of it. I agree that it should be avoided.

Overall, as an Eldritch Trickster, you'll be a debuffer as much as a damage dealer, as giving the Frightened condition is nearly a necessity for you.

This is a completely different character from what the OP was trying to build; I do agree that there are effective things that can be done with the ET chassis but "attack with produce flame and unarmed strikes" is not one of them, that's a Magus through and through.

Suggesting to change the class entirely is arguably as unhelpful as suggesting switching to a bow.


Lets forget about the bow for a Moment

What does OP want?

If it is rogue Versatility, skills + Magic with Sneak Attack

Increase dex to 16, consider If you need the Archetyp at lvl 1 (other Rackets might actually be better) and Go for it.
Consider different Options to get the enemy flatfooted and try to have fun

If it is Magical facepunching the Magus is probably the better choice as they can benefit from Weapon Attack Bonus
And the damage of a unarmed cantrip spellstrike is roughly in par with spell trickster Sneak Attack - without Conditions (ff) but with recharge


You could always archetype into magus and have sneak attack spell strike once an encounter.

Or eldritch Archer.


OP needs to clarify what they are trying the achieve

All they have posted is the current build and the current fighting style

As discussed these are not necessarily best aligned.

If they want to continue the fighting style mentioned then the magus suggestion is definitely a good one.

But if they want rogue skills and things then it might not be. But at the moment assumptions are being made that the OP definitely wants to play an eldritch trickster rogue - to the point of suggesting a completely different fighting style

I’d lean towards suggesting a build based on how the OP wants to fight personally (so laughing shadow magus). But confirmation would be useful


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Lanathar wrote:

OP needs to clarify what they are trying the achieve

All they have posted is the current build and the current fighting style

As discussed these are not necessarily best aligned.

If they want to continue the fighting style mentioned then the magus suggestion is definitely a good one.

But if they want rogue skills and things then it might not be. But at the moment assumptions are being made that the OP definitely wants to play an eldritch trickster rogue - to the point of suggesting a completely different fighting style

I’d lean towards suggesting a build based on how the OP wants to fight personally (so laughing shadow magus). But confirmation would be useful

Agreed! Is the priority the class name or the play style?

This is why I wrote that guide. Much of the time people pick the wrong class to support how they want to play.

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