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Is the knuckle duster the new gauntlet? Save for being 1sp higher in price, it's equal to or better than the gauntlet in every way!
Is this a sign of power creep in this new edition!?
;P
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For a 50% price increase Monks can spend a feat to use it. Power Creep overwhelming.
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I don't really understand the Monk trait on this weapon, is there a single scenario where Fist won't be better? I guess if there is someone casting Magic Weapon.
I wonder if giving Monk Deadly Simplicity for monk weapons would make those type of weapons more fun to use?
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I don't really understand the Monk trait on this weapon, is there a single scenario where Fist won't be better? I guess if there is someone casting Magic Weapon.
I wonder if giving Monk Deadly Simplicity for monk weapons would make those type of weapons more fun to use?
Deadly simplicity would be great for those, or really on just any monk weapon. The weapon being weaker that a Fist is kinda dumb.
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I guess they allow non-monks to punch people to death without having to worry about the nonlethal trait penalties?
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Designer
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I guess they allow non-monks to punch people to death without having to worry about the nonlethal trait penalties?
They do everything a gauntlet does and then also work with martial arts stuff on the chance that that matters for your build. So you can make them out of precious metals (adamantine is particularly relevant, since stone golems and adamantine weapons both show up at level 11, long before monks get adamantine strikes), you can use them with doubling rings to grab runes off of e.g. a shield boss so they're a cheap add for certain materials that might be more situational, etc.
The monk trait by itself isn't a power add, it just opens the door to using the item with stuff that requires a weapon with the monk trait (the power creep would be in making a monk weapon that's better than any existing monk weapons).
So the question was, which of these two do we go with:
1) A thematic and situationally useful item that has some particular functionality for characters that care about keeping the hand free and works with martial arts
or
2) A thematic and situationally useful item that has some particular functionality for characters that care about keeping the hand free and doesn't work with martial arts because I don't know the game says you can't punch twice for one action if you have metal caps on your knuckles
We went with option 1, because while there's maybe an argument to be made that the metal hinges and such on a gauntlet might interfere with the finer movements of some martial arts styles, that argument loses most of the weight it might have when the item in question is specifically an offensive tool designed to increase your punching power and not a defensive accessory that happens to make your punches hurt more for the average person.
... at least as of right now, there is basically no reason at all to use them over just punching or kicking a guy...
With Knuckle Duster's, even a Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Swashbuckler et al. can be a lethal fist fighter without spending feats or taking a -2 penalty to make Lethal attacks with base 1d4 Non-Lethal fists.
Though, I'd love a feat for BPKD ("Explosive Punch"?) where you shoot when your fist hits the target, dealing both punch and gun damage simultaneously...
Shouldn't knuckle dusters and gauntlets add to anybody's punching-based damage? I fail to see how a trained fighter would somehow have their punches hit harder when subtracting nothing and adding a bar of metal to strike their foes with. This is simple logic.
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Shouldn't knuckle dusters and gauntlets add to anybody's punching-based damage? I fail to see how a trained fighter would somehow have their punches hit harder when subtracting nothing and adding a bar of metal to strike their foes with. This is simple logic.
Yup, and while we are solving this. Let's make falling damage a bigger problem, have limb based damage and make lava and spells thst use lava be instant kills.
Unarmed attacks do more damage just so people can use unarmed attacks, it isn't a simulation it is a fantasy abstraction.
Is the knuckle duster the new gauntlet? Save for being 1sp higher in price, it's equal to or better than the gauntlet in every way!
Is this a sign of power creep in this new edition!?
;P
Joke post is a joke, especially when I think you could flurry with both Gauntlets and Knuckle Dusters regardless (since both are done as unarmed strikes, and Flurry of Blows works with all unarmed strikes).
Even if you somehow couldn't with a Gauntlet, any class using Unarmed Strikes as a main attack will have both a higher dice and the option to do Lethal or Non-Lethal at no penalty, while dealing the same damage type, and the Knuckle Duster doesn't do anything to improve that other than make the distinct clarification that, yes, you can Flurry with them regardless.
Really, I don't see the point of a Knuckle Duster, other than to throw on low level Monk NPCs to provide a challenge to Level 1 PCs in a different manner that isn't "just use a dagger" or something.
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... at least as of right now, there is basically no reason at all to use them over just punching or kicking a guy...With Knuckle Duster's, even a Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Swashbuckler et al. can be a lethal fist fighter without spending feats or taking a -2 penalty to make Lethal attacks with base 1d4 Non-Lethal fists.
Though, I'd love a feat for BPKD ("Explosive Punch"?) where you shoot when your fist hits the target, dealing both punch and gun damage simultaneously...
A relevant thing there is that many monsters are immune to nonlethal damage. So at low levels when you fight a skeleton, your choice is either swing your sword and deal with resistance, or make an unarmed strike with that takes a -2 to deal lethal. With a gauntlet you can deal lethal bludgeoning damage with no penalty. (And coincidentally, your minimum damage on a Strength 18 character will always one shot the 5 hp skeleton.)
Is the knuckle duster the new gauntlet? Save for being 1sp higher in price, it's equal to or better than the gauntlet in every way!
Is this a sign of power creep in this new edition!?
;P
Joke post is a joke, especially when I think you could flurry with both Gauntlets and Knuckle Dusters regardless (since both are done as unarmed strikes, and Flurry of Blows works with all unarmed strikes).
Even if you somehow couldn't with a Gauntlet, any class using Unarmed Strikes as a main attack will have both a higher dice and the option to do Lethal or Non-Lethal at no penalty, while dealing the same damage type, and the Knuckle Duster doesn't do anything to improve that other than make the distinct clarification that, yes, you can Flurry with them regardless.
Really, I don't see the point of a Knuckle Duster, other than to throw on low level Monk NPCs to provide a challenge to Level 1 PCs in a different manner that isn't "just use a dagger" or something.
Perhaps Michael Sayre's post about the KD's niche offerings would provide insight on that, given it's 5 posts above your post?
Also, Gauntlets don't do unarmed attacks. They are a simple weapon and do their weapon's attacks, even if they're in all other senses conceptually the same as unarmed attacks. So no, you can't FoB with them without the Monk trait.
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... at least as of right now, there is basically no reason at all to use them over just punching or kicking a guy...With Knuckle Duster's, even a Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Swashbuckler et al. can be a lethal fist fighter without spending feats or taking a -2 penalty to make Lethal attacks with base 1d4 Non-Lethal fists.
Though, I'd love a feat for BPKD ("Explosive Punch"?) where you shoot when your fist hits the target, dealing both punch and gun damage simultaneously...
A relevant thing there is that many monsters are immune to nonlethal damage. So at low levels when you fight a skeleton, your choice is either swing your sword and deal with resistance, or make an unarmed strike with that takes a -2 to deal lethal. With a gauntlet you can deal lethal bludgeoning damage with no penalty. (And coincidentally, your minimum damage on a Strength 18 character will always one shot the 5 hp skeleton.)
Where in the skeleton's statblock does it say that it's immune to nonlethal?
I don't think it is power creep - the gauntlet and the fist are both their kind of special category of weapon in being something you get by default (either it comes with your armour or with having hands) that aren't designed primarily to be used as weapons.
The Knuckle Duster is something you have to purchase separately that is specifically designed to be a weapon, and the only benefit you get over a gauntlet is that it has the monk trait (which the gauntlet doesn't get because it is armour which isn't a monk thing).
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... at least as of right now, there is basically no reason at all to use them over just punching or kicking a guy...With Knuckle Duster's, even a Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Swashbuckler et al. can be a lethal fist fighter without spending feats or taking a -2 penalty to make Lethal attacks with base 1d4 Non-Lethal fists.
Though, I'd love a feat for BPKD ("Explosive Punch"?) where you shoot when your fist hits the target, dealing both punch and gun damage simultaneously...
A relevant thing there is that many monsters are immune to nonlethal damage. So at low levels when you fight a skeleton, your choice is either swing your sword and deal with resistance, or make an unarmed strike with that takes a -2 to deal lethal. With a gauntlet you can deal lethal bludgeoning damage with no penalty. (And coincidentally, your minimum damage on a Strength 18 character will always one shot the 5 hp skeleton.)
That was PF1. Undeads are no more immune to nonlethal, and it destroys them at 0hp, like lethal attacks.
Appart from Constructs, I don't think there's many things immune to non lethal.
A monk with a set of these things with different runes for different situations could be interesting. Imagine having one with flaming, one with frost, one with shocking, etc. for dealing with energy weaknesses and the like.
Edit: Aorry aobst128. Seems you already beat me to it.
... at least as of right now, there is basically no reason at all to use them over just punching or kicking a guy...With Knuckle Duster's, even a Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Swashbuckler et al. can be a lethal fist fighter without spending feats or taking a -2 penalty to make Lethal attacks with base 1d4 Non-Lethal fists.
Though, I'd love a feat for BPKD ("Explosive Punch"?) where you shoot when your fist hits the target, dealing both punch and gun damage simultaneously...
A relevant thing there is that many monsters are immune to nonlethal damage. So at low levels when you fight a skeleton, your choice is either swing your sword and deal with resistance, or make an unarmed strike with that takes a -2 to deal lethal. With a gauntlet you can deal lethal bludgeoning damage with no penalty. (And coincidentally, your minimum damage on a Strength 18 character will always one shot the 5 hp skeleton.)
That was PF1. Undeads are no more immune to nonlethal, and it destroys them at 0hp, like lethal attacks.
Appart from Constructs, I don't think there's many things immune to non lethal.
Whoops, yeah, it seems to just be constructs now, not undead.
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A monk with a set of these things with different runes for different situations could be interesting. Imagine having one with flaming, one with frost, one with shocking, etc. for dealing with energy weaknesses and the like.
Edit: Aorry aobst128. Seems you already beat me to it.
Cool idea, but prohibitively expensive.
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I HAVE RETURNED FROM THE GREAT BEYOND!
I HAVE RETURNED FROM THE GREAT BEYOND!
Huh. Poppet with the Mummy archetype?