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I think it's probably best to keep the Lost Omens line about the world overall, and can be justified since said "lost omens" affect all of Golarion, but Age of Succession would be an excellent name for a Tian Xia book, come to think of it...
I dunno. The events of the Age of Lost Omens affected the entire world, but the books that form the foundation for this line represent a very specific geopolitical region in Golarion. Like, say you wanted to set up an Age of Succession campaign, and your new player picks up Character Guide at a local comic book shop to get ready. They create this really cool story about a Mbe'ke dwarven Hellknight, not realizing neither Hellknights nor dwarves are much of a thing out here at all, leaving GMs with a tricky situation. The thing is, Lost Omens, the way it's set up, is designed for Inner Sea campaigns. All the factions, ancestries, core ancestries, backgrounds, archetypes, etc – inside the core product line meant to introduce new players to your world – were designed with the assumption that your character will be operating mostly in the Inner Sea. You want a campaign elsewhere, you need an entirely new book that retroactively modifies options in that core line of Lost Omens books with new character options and lore info that's designed to fill players in on how the world works in a place that is not the Inner Sea. At that point, I think it'd be less confusing to just put a different brand up there.
I think that problem is something that's making it tricky for Paizo to step into new territory with Lost Omens. All the options in World Guide, Character Guide, and Gods & Magic would work for a character anywhere inside the Inner Sea pretty easily, but not so easily outside of that region. So when people pick up a Lost Omens book about Arcadia, they may be disappointed all their options in these Lost Omens books they paid a lot of money for just aren't made for Arcadia, and will require extra creative work to fit in. Making different brands under the Lost Omens subscription would give Paizo a chance to test the waters with books that won't be dependent on the options in these core books, and see how they sell (amazingly). That, and it's a little weird narratively defining the rest of the world by events that occurred in one small part of it.
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I mean, the bulk of the content in most Lost Omens books wouldn’t apply to a Mwangi campaign… that’s why they made a whole book about it. I doubt too many folks down there were too bummed about Aroden’s death, but they still live in a world without prophecy - the whole setting has suffered Lost Omens, not just the Inner Sea.
It’s really not that weird to say “we’re doing a game set in Tian Xia, so you should look at [hypothetical Tian book] for reference.”
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Eh, maybe. I think it does stress the need for some kind of player's guide book to come out ahead of exploring regions outside of the Inner Sea. And I disagree about most options not applying to Mwangi Expanse — due to Sargava's history and Chelish trade going on throughout the region, it's not jarring to see Hellknight operations in this region in the same way it would be to see one happening in Tian Xia. Same principle for Magaambya (maybe a little less so here, as they get around). But the Inner Sea seems to be defined by its trade networks that export culture and politics and religion across a variety of different cultures. The Mwangi Expanse didn't introduce a separate set of options for Mwangi Expanse heroes — it introduced a breadth of new options especially for characters in this meta-region — but could be used just as easily outside of them in the Inner Sea. I think any of the five factions probably have enough influence that they'd be recognizable no matter where you are in the ten meta-regions in LOWG.
You and DGM are probably right though, I guess; introduce a Lost Omens: Age of Succession book ahead of Tian Xia meta-region books and you'll likely be fine.
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Yeah, my hope is for World Guide-style overview books for the continents, and then Meta Region books that drill down further, though it does mean some places will absolutely not get their turn… at least, not for a very long time. I don’t know that there’s a world where we get a Fallen Razatlan book /and/ one for, say, the Shining Kingdoms.
Which is fine by me! I want the writers to be on projects they’ll be excited for, rather than just filling out a checklist. If we’re looking at the Inner Sea, I don’t personally need books for any more regions than the Impossible Lands, Broken Lands, and Golden Road - Old Cheliax is probably fine without an update, for instance.
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I hope so. I think the main reason I introduced this idea is because both the writers and fans of Lost Omens line seem split on where they want the franchise to go. On one hand, cornerstone books like Legends seemed to indicate a roadmap of developing plots that were almost entirely set in the Inner Sea, and little organizational decisions like TME and ACoLO sharing the same binding style makes me think sourcebooks for each of the ten meta-regions are also on the priority list. It seems like there are a lot of people who want to explore more of the plots, people and places that've been spotlighted in Lost Omens core books, and a lot of other people (like me) who want to see the rest of the world that's only been touched on. If Lost Omens continues course, it would be nice to see a new soft line with regular releases that set up plots and characters elsewhere like Arcadia and Tian Xia, that creatives could get more experimental with and have greater control over (since it won't necessarily impact the current plans for LO very much, happening elsewhere in the world).
Maybe I'm seeing more of a crossroads than is really present though. Books like Monsters of Myth certainly did a good job incorporating lore from regions all across Golarion (super intrigued to learn more about where Tehialai comes from, in particular).
At any rate, whatever wait that comes from this will be very, very painful indeed. :P
I mean, the bulk of the content in most Lost Omens books wouldn’t apply to a Mwangi campaign… that’s why they made a whole book about it. I doubt too many folks down there were too bummed about Aroden’s death, but they still live in a world without prophecy - the whole setting has suffered Lost Omens, not just the Inner Sea.
It’s really not that weird to say “we’re doing a game set in Tian Xia, so you should look at [hypothetical Tian book] for reference.”
Didn't the Mwangi have an entire civilization disappear due to Aroden's death?
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At any rate, whatever wait that comes from this will be very, very painful indeed. :P
We're getting a steady stream of Arcadia info compared to anything we saw in 1e; I'm holding out (maybe naive!) hope that we'll get a book for at least some part of it relatively soon. It seems like there's cheerleaders on staff for Fallen Razatlan and the Land of Northern Lakes both - fingers crossed they can get enough momentum behind them for fuller releases.
Book of the Dead apparently has some Arcadian info in it that I'm dying to see.
It happened at the same time, sure. But then many things happened at that time and they were not all necessarily caused by Aroden's death.
No I looked it up. Garund double dipped in the whole affected by Aroden's death. Not only did they get the eye of Abendengo, they also lost the prophecies that would have allowed them to see it coming.
For anyone else craving Arcadia info, the store page for a new Arcadia-set Society scenario just went up.
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It happened at the same time, sure. But then many things happened at that time and they were not all necessarily caused by Aroden's death.No I looked it up. Garund double dipped in the whole affected by Aroden's death. Not only did they get the eye of Abendengo, they also lost the prophecies that would have allowed them to see it coming.
I believe RB's point was that we have evidence these things merely coincided with the Big Guy's epic bucket kick, not were directly caused by him. The loss of prophecy is highly implied to be related to the loss of the great seal, not Aroden, while the Eye is another matter entirely.
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I believe RB's point was that we have evidence these things merely coincided with the Big Guy's epic bucket kick, not were directly caused by him. The loss of prophecy is highly implied to be related to the loss of the great seal, not Aroden, while the Eye is another matter entirely.It happened at the same time, sure. But then many things happened at that time and they were not all necessarily caused by Aroden's death.No I looked it up. Garund double dipped in the whole affected by Aroden's death. Not only did they get the eye of Abendengo, they also lost the prophecies that would have allowed them to see it coming.
Yeah, the point I was making above is that the Lirgeni and Yamasans didn’t go “Oh no, Aroden died!” but rather “Oh no, a hurricane is killing us!”
Aroden’s death may well have caused all the issues that coincide with it, but the end of prophecy is something that impacts the whole world, rather than just the folks familiar with one god’s cult - hence the setting being Lost Omens, and not Dead Arodenworld.
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What Sibelius said.
Aroden's death is one of the consequences of the wreckage of prophecies. Not the other way around.
It is the one that had the greatest impact on Avistan though.
And yes, the Lost Omens thing goes far beyond the Inner Sea and even Golarion. It affects all of Creation.
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Now I want to see a Tian character who thinks the fall of Lung Wa was shocking enough to kill Aroden and break prophecy.
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Recently I was struck with the idea of Lost Omens: Artifacts of Legend.
We had a book on key NPCs of worldwide/regional renown, we had a book on legendary monsters, why not tie it up with a book on important objects from throughout the world's history that adventurers so often thirst for?
But it need not just be big powerful weapons and quirky magic items and their direct stories (though that's certainly the big selling point). What are people who seek them, monsters that guard them, places where they can be found? Maybe some other player rules could sneak in as well, like rituals or feats. It'd be a great place to expand on item curses and relic gifts and stuff too.
There's plenty of already-existing ones, from what I gather, and the book could easily introduce a few new ones from around the world, giving us further hints into less-detailed regions outside the Inner Sea.
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As per the other thread I was just reading about Iron Gods
Lost Omens: Numeria
and/or something like Distant Worlds which touches on the various other planets
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Recently I was struck with the idea of Lost Omens: Artifacts of Legend.
We had a book on key NPCs of worldwide/regional renown, we had a book on legendary monsters, why not tie it up with a book on important objects from throughout the world's history that adventurers so often thirst for?
Would love to see this happen. If you're interested (and don't already know about it, which you might), basically this exact book came out for 1e, called "Artifacts & Legends." It's a really impressive book, with all the big toys you need to wrestle with demigods and dragons and undead tyrants: the Bloodstones of Arazni, the Book of the Damned, Baba Yaga's Dancing Hut, the Horns of Naraga (Tar-Baphon's helm), the Shield of Aroden, Skull of Ydersius, the Swords of Sin, the Harrow Deck of Many Things...so many manies. I love this book to death all the way to unlife again. If you don't have it, buy this thang and never you mind the thank-me-laters.
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As per the other thread I was just reading about Iron Gods
Lost Omens: Numeria
and/or something like Distant Worlds which touches on the various other planets
I doubt we'll see single-country books return, but Numeria and Sarkoris both getting some love in a Broken Lands book would make me jump for joy.
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I doubt we'll see single-country books return, but Numeria and Sarkoris both getting some love in a Broken Lands book would make me jump for joy.As per the other thread I was just reading about Iron Gods
Lost Omens: Numeria
and/or something like Distant Worlds which touches on the various other planets
Seconded. I was OBSESSED with Sarkoris since learning about it and its place in Wrath of the Righteous, one of my all-time favorite APs, and playing in an Iron Gods play-by-post for the past few years has made me grow to love Numeria just as much!
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I would love to see regional books about the size of the Mwangi Expanse on the regions outside the Inner Sea. I could see about ten of these books:
The Kelish Empire
Arcadia
Vudra
Southern Garund
Northern Casmaron and the Crown of the World
Tian-Xa
The Deep Oceans and the Ruins of Azlant
Sarusan
The Darklands
The Solar System (in Pathfinder time)
Yes, I know guides for some of these regions already exist. So did ones for Absalom and the Mwangi Expanse. They don't have to be as thourough as the Inner Sea (which could have a book this size for each of the 10 meta-regions detailed in the World Guide) but one book would really help flesh out the world and open up opportunities to have fanatsy games inspired by (and written by members of) various real world cultures beyond Europe.
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Though I can see the appeal for readers, I feel it's best for writers to focus on one area and describe it with depth and detail. So that they don't get limited in the future by small hastily written descriptions published years before.
I would gladly see individual books for regions outside the Inner Sea, to avoid the treatment Tian Xia got in 1e (most nations getting a single page and nothing further for years), but I know that might be a tough sell to the bosses.
The overview we got of the Deadshot Lands was nice; I’d gladly see its ilk for others, followed by LO: Mwangi Expanse-style deep dives.
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The Eye of Dread region--though I suspect Knights of Lastwall is gonna give us some of that. I'm especially curious about the relationship between the Knights and the Magaambayan Philanthropists who've showed up in Vellumis.
Hell, give me a writeup of Vellumis and that'll be more than enough to fuel my current campaign for a hot minute.
I thought WotR made it pretty clear that Aroden's death had no direct causal impact on the opening of the Worldwound, but I may be misremembering.
Aroden’s death may well have caused all the issues that coincide with it, but the end of prophecy is something that impacts the whole world, rather than just the folks familiar with one god’s cult - hence the setting being Lost Omens, and not Dead Arodenworld.
Who was talking about the Worldwound?
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Shenmen. There's like, one paragraph about it in book of the dead that's making me crave a deeper dive.
Although I'd admittedly like to see it moderated and fleshed out in the process. A place where fey and yokai and undead are so active as to be just a commonplace part of living there sounds fascinating and I feel like you could tell a lot of cool stories beyond the vague "everything about it sucks" that defines what we know so far.
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Shenmen. There's like, one paragraph about it in book of the dead that's making me crave a deeper dive.
Although I'd admittedly like to see it moderated and fleshed out in the process. A place where fey and yokai and undead are so active as to be just a commonplace part of living there sounds fascinating and I feel like you could tell a lot of cool stories beyond the vague "everything about it sucks" that defines what we know so far.
Yes! I’ve been thinking as of late that the border of Shokuro (an underdog nation likely to create or employ adventurers) and Shenmen (a haunted place of nefarious undead and wicked spirits). is a super fertile ground for play. There’s /so/ much potential for bloodstained fortresses, burned manors, and desecrated shrines as locales for awesome setpiece moments.
Give me Asian Ravenloft, please - I want to go fight the spooky stuff!
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I know It's pretty unlikely to happen, but as far as "organisation book" go, I would like one on the bellflower network. It being very halfling and slavery focussed mean it have very little chance to be made, but the network was always one of the most interesting part of cheliax for me, and I usually find the basic "good guys society" too bland for my taste.
There was something about that network that I find really captivating tho, and I really want to see more of them.
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Assuming the World Guide chapters can be seen as a preview of meta-regions to come, I'm looking forward to the Eye of Dread (especially for Nirmathas), Impossible Lands (for Jalmeray and Nex), and the Broken Lands (for Mendev).
Did you see the Impossible Lands book get announced a while back?
I know It's pretty unlikely to happen, but as far as "organisation book" go, I would like one on the bellflower network. It being very halfling and slavery focussed mean it have very little chance to be made, but the network was always one of the most interesting part of cheliax for me, and I usually find the basic "good guys society" too bland for my taste.
There was something about that network that I find really captivating tho, and I really want to see more of them.
Be nice to see one for the Free Captains, too. 2e doesn't feel like it currently has a go-to faction for the "Aspis Consortium/Zhentarim" chaotic-X players, out for scallywag selfish gains. Firebrands are pretty roped into mostly good causes, and Aspis is a little too evil for the average player, given everything it's got going on. Free Captains, on the other hand, are a little more ambiguously aligned, guided by both a CN Hurricane Queen and capricious, non-evil patron goddess. Free Captains have also grown a lot more relevant to the wider Inner Sea under Tessa's command, making alliances and enemies among all the big players, and infiltrating regions even as far-flung from the Shackles as Alkenstar to protect their interests. Faction is surprisingly industrious as well, even manufacturing its own bootleg cannons. Their "enemy yesterday, ally today, who knows what tomorrow" shtick has a lot of fun narrative potential for 2e parties, methinks. Not to mention Besmara's incredible signficance as a core 20 god in Starfinder, Pathfinder's (possible) future, indicating she done something right in Golarion's time.
I hope Magaambya gets more attention the soonest, though: a deep dive into Golarion's coolest magical school ever, with a complete gazetteer of the campus, article peering into a typical academic calendar with deeper dives into core curriculum and prominent extracurricular groups, NPC guide with teachers and staff, more info on the five branches, holidays and special events, etc. There's a lot to cover in this kind of book, and I'm a little surprised something like it hasn't been released already. Maybe in a revisit to Magaambya somewhere down the road (hopefully with some shiny Mwangi Expanse map folios).
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I hope Magaambya gets more attention the soonest, though: a deep dive into Golarion's coolest magical school ever, with a complete gazetteer of the campus, article peering into a typical academic calendar with deeper dives into core curriculum and prominent extracurricular groups, NPC guide with teachers and staff, more info on the five branches, holidays and special events, etc. There's a lot to cover...
I love the Magaambya, but I don't truthfully know that I need a ton more on them, personally - given the choice between info on a group who got a entire Adventure Path to themselves this edition and something new, I'm always going for the latter.
They're by far my fav of the factions in LOCG, though.
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Assuming the World Guide chapters can be seen as a preview of meta-regions to come, I'm looking forward to the Eye of Dread (especially for Nirmathas), Impossible Lands (for Jalmeray and Nex), and the Broken Lands (for Mendev).Did you see the Impossible Lands book get announced a while back?
Yes, and yet I completely memory-holed it after just a few weeks. I need sleep.
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Lost Omens: Dragon Empires Travel Guide.
Luis Loza mentioned that if it does well and people want it, the LO Travel Guide could blossom into a series of books on other parts of Golarion - and currently Tian Xia is the only other section of Golarion defined clearly enough to be a candidate.
And certainly, a book that can really serve as an opportunity to flesh out the continent's cultures and provide a...non-Orientalist look at it would be a very welcome setup to future adventures set there.
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Lost Omens: Dragon Empires Travel Guide.
Luis Loza mentioned that if it does well and people want it, the LO Travel Guide could blossom into a series of books on other parts of Golarion - and currently Tian Xia is the only other section of Golarion defined clearly enough to be a candidate.
And certainly, a book that can really serve as an opportunity to flesh out the continent's cultures and provide a...non-Orientalist look at it would be a very welcome setup to future adventures set there.
Agreed. It is time to renew Tian Xia.
With 2022 approaching its end and the first half of 2023 spoken for, I wanted to gently necro this thread. What and where in the Lost Omens setting are people fiending for next? The question of what will “pair” with Rage of Elements next year is an interesting one, and seems to add fuel to the Tian Xia theory’s fire, but it feels like anything goes.
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The question of what will “pair” with Rage of Elements next year is an interesting one, and seems to add fuel to the Toan Xia theory’s fire
How so? I would have thought a focus on elemental beings - including jinn - would lead into finally detailing Kelesh. But Casmaron never gets love.
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The question of what will “pair” with Rage of Elements next year is an interesting one, and seems to add fuel to the Tian Xia theory’s fireHow so? I would have thought a focus on elemental beings - including jinn - would lead into finally detailing Kelesh. But Casmaron never gets love.
The decision to include two new planes tied to the missing Wuxing elements and the Iconic Kineticist being Tian are my main data points, plus Treasure Vault coming from the perspective of an Imperial Dragon’s Kobold servant and both of the known APs for next year being globe-trotting.