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I tend not to roll the checks for Remove Diseases from spellcasting services, especially if there's only one chance on 20 to fail. If it's just a punition for nothing, I don't find that funny at all.
Also, 18 gp is a lot at low levels.
At higher level, when your party should have access to Remove Disease by themselves, then it's another story.
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I feel like if you hire a professional to fix a problem and they can't fix the problem you don't pay them, or at least you only pay for the initial inspection/estimate/analysis/whatever and not for the full service since that service was never rendered.
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Were I a spellcaster selling such services, I would just charge the PCs normally, because if the PCs want (nearly) guaranteed results, they can pay for a higher level of the spell. It is more expensive, but such is life. The counteract rules are such that if you use an overleveled slot it still counteracts on a failure.
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IMO, the PC's hiring the equivalent of a humanoid scroll: you don't buy a scroll and try to take it back if it didn't Remove Disease so why would you expect something different: only the casting method changed.
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I'd expect an RP interaction. Almost every character I've played wouldn't pay for a service that didn't work. As a GM a player pushing back like that can be fun RP and good world building.
Then again an experienced caster would have a failure cost in their contracts. 18 gold for success, half for the attempt and expenses in event of a failure as an example.
Real world case, what happens when you take your car in to get fixed and the mechanic doesn't fix the problem? I would run it like that if I was inclined to not just have it work.
In the real world, if the mechanic took the time to disassemble the engine and put it back together, you're gonna pay them for the labor. If they think they fixed it but then you start hearing that squeaking sound again, you don't get a refund on their previous work. Nor do you get refunded for medicine which doesn't work, either.
And again, a customers can just pay for a higher level of spell slot if they want guaranteed results.
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I'd expect an RP interaction. Almost every character I've played wouldn't pay for a service that didn't work. As a GM a player pushing back like that can be fun RP and good world building.
Then again an experienced caster would have a failure cost in their contracts. 18 gold for success, half for the attempt and expenses in event of a failure as an example.
Real world case, what happens when you take your car in to get fixed and the mechanic doesn't fix the problem? I would run it like that if I was inclined to not just have it work.
The roleplaying experience I would run, from a reputable spellcaster, would be, "I am sorry, that casting failed. Could the patient please remain overnight? I will study the disease to see if I overlooked some magical resistance, and I will prepare the Remove Disease spell again tomorrow morning."
A 3rd-level spellcasting service costs 18 gold, all going to the spellcaster. A 3rd-level scroll costs 30 gp, half toward raw materials and half toward crafting and the spellcasting. So the spellcasting is worth less than 15 gp when cast into a scroll. The extra 3 gp is the cost for the spellcaster trying again if the spell fails.
Threaten to sue them for medical malpractice perhaps?
You probably can't sue them, but you sure can drag their name through the mud. 18gp probably isn't worth the hit to PR, especially if you're a cleric trying to get more people to worship your deity.
Also, medicine is a physical resource that takes expertise and specialized stuff to make. Magic also takes expertise, but in most cases the only thing it costs is a good night's sleep and an hour's thonk. There's an opportunity cost, sure, but it's a little different.
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How do you handle a case...
For me, "that'll be 18gp please" occurs before the service is provided. In a world as chaotic as Golarion it is prudent to get paid in advance, especially from someone who can simply walk away after the service. In my campaigns you are not paying to have your disease removed so much as you are paying to have a spell cast on you, that just happens to be remove disease" and the NPC will be clear about that, unless they are unscrupulous. There is no guarantee of success, just like there is no guarantee your fireball will kill or even hurt the target. Magic is hard. If it was easy, everyone would do it. Is it unfortunate when a spell fails? Sure. Moreso when you are paying someone else to cast it, but for me, the rules are what they are.
If you hire a mercenary, you don't expect every swing of his sword to hit the target and they aren't going to accept a lower payment simply because every attack wasn't a 'nat20'. It stands to reason if you hire a spellcaster, not every spell they cast is going to be perfectly effective. Though as some have said, that opens the possibility of a dialog. Maybe the caster will give a discount on the (likely) follow up attempt/s. Or maybe they can be convinced to refund part of the fee due to a failure. Its just that the "standard" or starting point is going to be service paid, service failed. Transaction complete. Move on, next.
YMMV
That's why you have the Great Axe Barbarian Readying an Attack to motivate them not to fail.
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I also find that 18gp for a spell is extremely expensive.
If my level 5 Sorcerer could get 18gp x 3 each days of downtime to just spend 6 rounds of casting and prepare his spells in the morning (which he does anyway), it would be a hell of an income compared to the few silver coins he's supposed to get for a day of work.
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Regarding the original question - I usually just assume the service paid for is the casting of the spell, and most likely paid up front :D
If the spell can fail, well.... Then it can fail.
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An important component of this is the availability of alternatives. If the caster you are going to is the only gig in town and you are dying of a disease, don't expect it to be a buyer's market, unless of course the caster in question has some aspect of altruism. Maybe s/he's a Iomedean or perhaps a Sarenite who may be pre-disposed to help you for free.
OTOH, s/he could be an Abadarian and we know they don't give discounts lightly. Or it could be there are a number of qualifying casters in the vicinity and if one wants to get any business s/he needs to be a bit more "customer friendly."
Nothing says this exchange has to be consistently black and white in either direction. There are plenty of justifications for variability.
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I believe that unless I am mistaken, it says somewhere, or maybe a dev mentioned something about paying someone to move a rune, you just pay the craftsman the cost to move it and they move it. I thought it was said (and I can't remember if it was in book or just comment on board) that you pay, and they do it.
I'm pretty sure in Age of Ashes, if you hire folks to manage stuff (something you can do, but would have to roll) they automatically succeed. They don't fail, or critically fail, but they also don't critically succeed. I sort of interpreted this as they succeeded, or if they did by chance fail at something, they dealt with it outside of your sight and made up for it to get it back on track. (likely costing them some or most of their pay for the period)
This said, I think it is perfectly reasonable to assume that if an NPC casts a spell, if the outlook is likely a success, and there isn't a particular improvement to the story to take it down a failure track. It is perfectly in line to simply rule it a success and move on.
If you like to leverage the chance of failure, for the tension and role-playing opportunities, and potentially force the players to choose between a couple different priced options with different chances of success, that is perfectly legitimate use of the rules as well.
If for role-playing purposes, it would be reasonable for scenarios involving failed castings to have multiple outcomes based on local traditions, relationship with the vendor, and bartering abilities. It could range from no cost for failure, Half-price until successful casting. (potentially the caster offering additional castings to attempt to achieve success) Or paying full price, but offering multiple castings up to a certain number of times. It could be that subsequent casting to get that success might be free, or they might be tied to favors, or a quest to get a needed specialized material component (that might improve chance of success of spell, for instance)
Actually, Second edition did a lot to make downtime income be far more controlled and anticipatable for the GM, getting rid of the capital multiplication schemes, and made most characters capable of making an basic controlled amount of money at a job or crafting. However, the cost of Spellcasting services, technically would allow spell casters to potentially blow the earning potentials of those individuals out the roof. In theory, an alchemist might be able to get income on their daily items, if they buyer is buying it to use immediately. Obviously buying it to use tomorrow would probably cause fraud claims.
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Perhaps we need to crunch some numbers.
A 2nd-level party battles a Zebub devil, creature 3, in a dungeon, and the Zebub infects the party sorcerer with Cocytan Filth.
Cocytan Filth (disease, virulent) Saving Throw DC 18 Fortitude; Onset 1d4 days; Stage 1 enfeebled 1 (1 day); Stage 2 enfeebled 2 (1 day); [b]Stage 3 enfeebled 3 (1 day)
The sorcerer has Fort +6 (+2 Con, +4 trained proficiency). Thus, he has to roll a 12 or higher to reduce the disease, a 45% chance; otherwise, the disease intensifies. By the time the party reaches town, the sorcerer has finished the onset, is at Stage 1, suffers enfeebled 1. The party members each received 45 gp of treasure from their dungeon delving, so the sorcerer decided to go to the local temple of Sarenrae to seek healing.
The 5th-level cleric of Sarenrae did not prepare Remove Disease that day. She is a +12 expert in Medicine, so she gives the sorcerer a bed for the night (1.9 sp for lunch, dinner, bed, and breakfast) and will try Treat Disease first for a non-divine cure costing 1 gp.
The cleric needs to roll only a 6 or higher to overcome the DC 18 of the Cocytan Filth, so let's say she succeeds. The sorcerer gains a +2 for his overnight Fort save. Let's say that he rolls a 9 on the d20 for a Fort save of 17, below the DC 18, and progresses to Stage 2 in the morning.
The cleric had delayed her daily preparations and now asks the sorcerer whether he wants a Remove Disease spell. She explains that she had other uses for the spell slot, so she has to charge him the full 18-gp standard price for a 3rd-level spell.
The sorcerer had planned to spend his 45 gp on a magic item. He kisses that opportunity goodbye and pays the cleric 18 gp. The party has to leave town that day for their quest, so he cannot spend another two nights for Treat Disease, the cheap but slow method.
Cocytan Filth is a 3rd-level disease, but the counteracting rules say, " If an effect is a spell, its level is the counteract level. Otherwise, halve its level and round up to determine its counteract level. If an effect’s level is unclear and it came from a creature, halve and round up the creature’s level." Thus, Cocytan Filth's counteract level is 2. The cleric's Remove Disease spell will remove it if she rolls a failure or better. She has a +10 to spell rolls, so she will counteract the disease on any roll except a natural 1.
Sadly, she rolls a natural 1.
This is were roleplaying could come in. The charismatic sorcerer might persuade the cleric to give him a partial refund. Or perhaps she gives him two bottles of lesser antiplague from the temple's stockpiles. Sarenrae is a charitable god.
Another solution would be that instead of a cleric of Sarenrae, imagine he sought healing from a cleric of Adadar. "We have two different contracts you may buy. You could gamble on the single casting of Remove Disease for 18 gp. Or you could contract for the Guaranteed Cure Plan for 20 gp, which buys repeated casting until your disease is gone."
From a GM's point of view, having the sorcerer still sick with Cocytan Filth and no longer able to afford to upgrade his equipment will unbalance the party. I don't like to gamble on the usefulness of a character unless it makes the plot more exciting.
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How do you handle a case like a hero asking the local priest for a Remove Disease.
The priest rolls a 1 on the counteract so nothing happens and goes "that'll be 18 gold please"
Zapp
PS
Is there previous discussion?
I don't charge them for the spell, I charge them for the service which is to remove a disease. There has to be a reason they're paying for the spellcasting service. If that reason is to remove a disease, then they don't pay until the disease is removed.
The only time I would adjust this is if there was a costly component per casting.
Cost of services is a guideline, not a hard cap. All these games are trying to provide a framework or guideline for you to allow your players to interact with the world. It is still up to the DM to make this interaction seem real and meaningful within the context of play.
I doubt a priest of Sarenrae would charge 18 gold a casting even if they failed. Whereas you could do something like that with Droskar to build up that priest is a jerk looking to take their coin. But it should be dependent on what they're doing, who they're interacting with, and help develop the players ideas about the world.
What it should not become is some hard-coded rule used to take gold and play the game like 18 gold for a 3rd level casting is some hard-coded element of the world that cannot possibly be adjusted.
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I doubt a priest of Sarenrae would charge 18 gold a casting even if they failed. Whereas you could do something like that with Droskar to build up that priest is a jerk looking to take their coin. But it should be dependent on what they're doing, who they're interacting with, and help develop the players ideas about the world.
What it should not become is some hard-coded rule used to take gold and play the game like 18 gold for a 3rd level casting is some hard-coded element of the world that cannot possibly be adjusted.
When I asked my wife her opinion about charging for a failed cure, she asked "What is the religion of the cleric?"
I said Erastil, and she said that that cleric would not charge in the first place. Erastil advocates community.
I changed that to Abadar, and she invented the 20-gp Guaranteed Cure Plan that I mentioned above.
I said Lamashtu, and she said no-one in their right mind would visit a cleric of Lamashtu for a cure.
I said Shelyn, and she said that they would offer free cures, but would strongly encourage tips.
She would rather emphasize the individual styles of different religions than stick to one price regardless of the religion.
Fixed prices are good for straightforward decisions, but we ought not let the directness prevent meaningful roleplaying.
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This said, I think it is perfectly reasonable to assume that if an NPC casts a spell, if the outlook is likely a success, and there isn't a particular improvement to the story to take it down a failure track. It is perfectly in line to simply rule it a success and move on.
I think most of us agree, but something being "reasonable" is not the same as it being the expected rule. There is enough ambiguity in this topic that a GM should be comfortable ruling it either way depending on how they view it within the scope of their own campaign.
IIRC org play recently confirmed that spellcasting services always succeed, but that is not a Pathfinder 2E rule, it is a campaign-specific ruling.
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When I asked my wife...
I hope she attends services on their weekly holy day and drops a sack of coins in the offering plate then because for some churches, temples, etc spellcasting services is a primary form of income, perhaps their only one. Unless the "realism" of the economy is something you hand-waive, at which point their sources of income are assumed and unnecessary.
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Though I am not entirely 100% sure whether all these three instances of ghoul fever count as "the same".
For what its worth, in my own campaigns, I would consider each of those as independent instances that all infect the target, but only the most severe instance has an effect. Say someone receives two instances of persistent bleed 1d6 — I roll twice and take the worst. The source of those two instances has to either be different creatures 9or hazards or whatever) or two distinctly different abilities from the same creature (example, a monster that does bleed both with its claws and bite). This also means the victim has to resolve each instance separately unless said resolution could reasonable affect all instances simultaneously. Example, someone with multiple instances of persistent fire was to fully submerge themself in water. YMMV
Cocytan Filth is a 3rd-level disease, but the counteracting rules say, " If an effect is a spell, its level is the counteract level. Otherwise, halve its level and round up to determine its counteract level. If an effect’s level is unclear and it came from a creature, halve and round up the creature’s level." Thus, Cocytan Filth's counteract level is 2.To clarify, you seem to conclude "if [...] it came from a creature, halve and round up the creature’s level" is the go-to rule here. But if this was all we had to go on, it is far from given.
You could easily say the effect's level is not unclear at all, and that "halve its level and round up to determine its counteract level" is the rule to use. (Its level is 3 and so we arrive at a counteract level of 2 regardless)
However, the disease is governed by the rules for afflictions:
"The level of an affliction is the level of the monster, hazard, or item causing the affliction or, in the case of a spell, is listed in the affliction entry for that spell."
So, yes, the disease in this particular case is level 3, and yes, it's because the creature's level is 3, but possibly you utilized the wrong rules paragraph to get us to the counteract level of 2?
...
I am not an expert in afflictions. The characters in my game have had an occasional affliction from poison, and I follow the affliction DC without worrying about level.
I know even less about counteracting. The first time my players had to counteract anything was in a game session three weeks ago, in a campaign that has met weekly since October 2019. The sorcerer and druid cast Dispel Magic on some doppelgangers to remove their shapechange (an arcane effect, so it could be dispelled) and prove that they were doppelgangers.
The Archives of Nethys lists Cocytan Filth as a Disease 3 in its list of diseases. It also comes from a creature 3. That is the level of the affliction. I think that the affliction level is meant to act like a hazard level for when I decide whether the PCs ought to encounter that affliction.
Yet the counteract rules clearly say, "halve its level and round up to determine its counteract level." What level is divided by 2? The affliction level. The counteract level of an affliction is a different number than the affliction level, just like level of a focus spell or a cantrip or highest spell slot is different from the character level of a spellcaster. I think that this is because afflictions will be counteracted by spells, and the developers wanted the counteracting to have a level on the same scale as the spell level.
So the rules say one thing, pay your money.
Take your chances.
Immersive role playing says "it depends".
As a player I would my expectations would depend on the table.
In some games the process of getting healed would be part of resource management.
In others, an opportunity to role play.
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When I asked my wife...I hope she attends services on their weekly holy day and drops a sack of coins in the offering plate then because for some churches, temples, etc spellcasting services is a primary form of income, perhaps their only one. Unless the "realism" of the economy is something you hand-waive, at which point their sources of income are assumed and unnecessary.
Most adventurers do not stay in a town long enough to attend worship services. I have seen some paladins (champions) and clerics donate to the temple of their god when they enter town. I have also seen temples request the services of adventurers without paying the adventurers.
In my current Ironfang Invasion campaign, the druid PC was a friend of Cleric Noelan of the Riverwood Shrine in Phaendar. The cleric asked the druid to join a scouting mission without pay and later, during the invasion, asked him to evacuate the children and elderly from town. Ranger Aubrin the Green multiclassed to cleric of Cayden Cailaen and served as Phaendar's other cleric. The ranger PC was Aubrin's apprentice and was given the same assignments by her.
Aubrin ended up leading the refugees from Phaendar. She used her apprentice and the apprentice's friends (i.e., the PCs) as her scouts to find allies, food, and hiding places for the refugees. Aubrin once used a Scroll of Remove Poison to save a PC from centipede venom. I did not roll; instead, I gave the scroll an automatic success. That is the closest the PCs came to requesting a spellcasting service from an outside cleric.
When the PCs rescued the tiny mining town Radya's Hollow from invasion, the single cleric in town had died fighting off the first wave of the invasion before the party arrived. The villagers donated materials for crafting to the party out of gratitude. The party donated the weapons and armor from the enemy soldiers to the villagers.
Recently, the PCs arrived in the city of Longshadow. They have not requested any services from the local temples. The party has been working to shore up the defenses of the city, which will help those temples. They have paid for the materials and workers for the improvements out of a line of credit authorized by the mayor. A cleric of Adadar was the banker who managed the line of credit, so I presume that the temple of Abadar in Longshadow earns its money by selling banking services.
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Then again an experienced caster would have a failure cost in their contracts. 18 gold for success, half for the attempt and expenses in event of a failure as an example.Had this been stated in the Equipment chapter all would be well and there would have been no issue.
Alas there isn't.
Officially codifying interactions like this would make them game worse actually
It's become a recurring joke in my group that the church of Abadar has a "no refunds" policy on spellcasting services.
Sounds like it's a great opportunity for other churches. Get churches near there, tell everyone Abadar's church has no refunds on spell failures while your church does, rake in the faith.
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I think there is no standard answer, since I'd imagine in setting that there is no standard answer.
In fact, this problem could be foreshadowing for an entire questline. A priest fails their spell, and then you complain to the local authorities. However, the local authorities can't do anything because the church has a firm stranglehold on that country, and they had the laws written in their favor.
Then, you can lead your party down an entire rabbit hole of all the standard issues that come from an oversized political faction- corruption, embezzling, contraband items, assassinations, political infighting, plots to grab the seat of power (probably through a puppet heir during a succession struggle), foul rituals to dark forces in return for power, wealth, youth, etc.
On the flip side, some noble faction might also have too much power, and they might have written the laws to punish the spellcaster, either due to personal pettiness (since nobles have the money to buy casting, and they have the authority to be make customer service a living hell) or as a power play against the spell caster factions.
Different parts of the same country might have different laws on this matter depending on which faction controls the region. You could easily set up a large dispute as the factions vie for power.
Yes, you can lead your party into an entire civil war just because of a service fee dispute with a local priest.
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No bartering, no interaction, no complications, no gameplay slow-down. Whether you buy a horse or a sword or a spell doesn't matter.
If detailing interactions with NPC spellcasters is going to slow down your game and pull narrative focus away from things your table is interested in, you can just handwaive the rules and say either it works or it doesn't depending on if the spellcaster is capable of removing the disease and keep the game moving. The gamemastering section of the CRB makes it pretty clear that keeping the game moving can be more important than following the rules to the letter.
Man, I wish the rules clearly stated you're paying for the spell slot and not a service accomplished (or vice versa).
I don't personally. Having some spellcasters or situations view spellcasting services as paying a spellcaster to solve your problem and others view spellcasting services as paying for the service of spellcasting can create interesting dramatic tension and change dynamics between different factions.
Maybe the church of Asmodeus is tolerated in a region due to their generosity regarding spellcasting services, offering to solve your problem regardless of how many castings it takes. Everyone knows it is them trying to endear the community into depending on infernal powers, but at the same time the guarantee may be hard to pass on when finances are tight. Meanwhile the church of Nethys next door views any use of their divine art as worth the price, regardless of success. Now the party has to choose to work with devils who can promise to get the job done or magicians who can promise to charge more if they fail.
Alternatively, maybe the local clergy normally would treat spellcasting services as paying for more than merely the service of casting a spell but currently have resources spread thin due to an attack on the city. The chance of failure can't be offset by a future casting because every casting of Remove Disease is one fewer casting of Sanctified Ground to defend a strongpoint, one fewer casting of Dream Message to reach out to nearby allies. Now introducing the chance of failure and chance of several castings of Remove Disease also adds an extra pressure on the party to fight back the attackers and save the city as once community resources are not so taxed it will be easier (cheaper) to cure what ails them.
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If you really want realism, the spellcasters should charge to cast the spell, whether it works or not, but offer "failure insurance" where they can pay an extra 10-50% up front to have it recast the following day if it doesn't succeed the first time.
If you want a fun game, just have it succeed unless having it fail leads to a story more interesting than whatever the characters were doing when they got diseased. Most players don't play the game to have an accurate representation of their diseased characters haggling with greedy priests, especially if the dragon they were chasing is still terrorizing the land.
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That's why you have the Great Axe Barbarian Readying an Attack to motivate them not to fail.Sorry, that does not play.
That's akin to games where players rob shopkeeper NPCs.
It just breaks the social contract of the game. Attack town NPCs and the only resort for the GM is to bring in a never-ending sequence of guards, and after the party TPKs, start a new campaign with new players.
Nah, set the number of guards, and if the PCs kill them, great. They have a town where there is no law, and they're the most powerful thing there. Are they gonna kill everyone in town? Are they gonna decide to run the town like tyrants? Are they gonna abandon it, and leave it to whatever decides to attack it?
"OK, what now" you ask when the dust has settled. They'll expect you, as the GM, to provide them with a new hook. You can't. Your hooks are dead, or terrified of them.
Players need to eat the consequences of their actions.
If you really want realism, the spellcasters should charge to cast the spell, whether it works or not, but offer "failure insurance" where they can pay an extra 10-50% up front to have it recast the following day if it doesn't succeed the first time.
If you want a fun game, just have it succeed unless having it fail leads to a story more interesting than whatever the characters were doing when they got diseased. Most players don't play the game to have an accurate representation of their diseased characters haggling with greedy priests, especially if the dragon they were chasing is still terrorizing the land.
So, I'm running Abomination Vaults right now. What's the point of having Ghoul Curse or Blueblisters as a potential affliction if they can just run to Vandy and get magically cured for less than 20 gp?
Sometimes a challenge is fun. Facing hardship is part of an engaging story. Suffering or even dying from that hardship, as failed attempts at healing just can't seem to save them? They suffer, tragically fighting until the end, despite their diminished capacity, all to help the group? That can make a character truly memorable.
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Oh joy, this thread again. I maintain that if you're paying for spell casting, it is just a fact of life that "on level" casting, using a counteract level equal to the disease's level, will be almost always be roll of the dice. Below level casting has a 95% chance of failure, and above level casting has a 95% chance of success.
This is something casters should explain to customers before the transaction, so the customer can make an educated purchase. If the customer chooses to use a lower level slot to save coin, they need to accept the risk of failure. If a caster/GM fails to explain it, you're in grey territory.
Now, there are some variables that could shift that math, like the caster being a much higher level but using a low level spell slot. They could still potentially crit succeed at that points thanks to their higher counteract bonus, but at that point they are also so high level their time is more valuable.
That's why you have the Great Axe Barbarian Readying an Attack to motivate them not to fail.Sorry, that does not play.
That's akin to games where players rob shopkeeper NPCs.
It just breaks the social contract of the game. Attack town NPCs and the only resort for the GM is to bring in a never-ending sequence of guards, and after the party TPKs, start a new campaign with new players.
Nah, set the number of guards, and if the PCs kill them, great. They have a town where there is no law, and they're the most powerful thing there. Are they gonna kill everyone in town? Are they gonna decide to run the town like tyrants? Are they gonna abandon it, and leave it to whatever decides to attack it?
"OK, what now" you ask when the dust has settled. They'll expect you, as the GM, to provide them with a new hook. You can't. Your hooks are dead, or terrified of them.
Players need to eat the consequences of their actions.
If you really want realism, the spellcasters should charge to cast the spell, whether it works or not, but offer "failure insurance" where they can pay an extra 10-50% up front to have it recast the following day if it doesn't succeed the first time.
If you want a fun game, just have it succeed unless having it fail leads to a story more interesting than whatever the characters were doing when they got diseased. Most players don't play the game to have an accurate representation of their diseased characters haggling with greedy priests, especially if the dragon they were chasing is still terrorizing the land.
So, I'm running Abomination Vaults right now. What's the point of having Ghoul Curse or Blueblisters as a potential affliction if they can just run to Vandy and get magically cured for less than 20 gp?
Sometimes a challenge is fun. Facing hardship is part of an engaging story. Suffering or even dying from that hardship, as failed attempts at healing just can't seem to save them? They...
Vandy is level 5, meaning she only reliably Remove Diseases below 4th level, and has a reasonable chance of success at 5th or 6th level diseases. At low levels, that 20gp will be felt in the purse. At high levels, she stops being a viable resource.