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After Gauntlight fires its beam on the graveyard, why does the recharging ribbon of light from area D9 stop at area B35? Shouldn't it also go through area A11 until reaching A25(the cupola)?
Eventually it probably should, but by having it not extend as far gives the PCs (and thus the players) a visual cue that the Gauntlight can't keep zapping things, and thus (hopefully) implies to the PCs (and thus the players) that they're not on a timer and can take their time exploring the dungeon. The Abomanation Vaults were meant to host numerous separate forays, not one long marathon.
After Gauntlight fires its beam on the graveyard, why does the recharging ribbon of light from area D9 stop at area B35? Shouldn't it also go through area A11 until reaching A25(the cupola)?Eventually it probably should, but by having it not extend as far gives the PCs (and thus the players) a visual cue that the Gauntlight can't keep zapping things, and thus (hopefully) implies to the PCs (and thus the players) that they're not on a timer and can take their time exploring the dungeon. The Abomanation Vaults were meant to host numerous separate forays, not one long marathon.
Oh, okay, my players have very different theories, they think it's somehow connecting to the blood pool on A11 (since they refuse to go into Gauntlight at night, for them it's just a weird pool of blood that never dries).
What exactly is the point of the battle against the Vampiric Mist in the cupola, other than just a cool fight? Defeating it doesn't even stop the haunt below from repeating, and there's no benefit to entering the cupola in the first place as far as I can tell.
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What exactly is the point of the battle against the Vampiric Mist in the cupola, other than just a cool fight? Defeating it doesn't even stop the haunt below from repeating, and there's no benefit to entering the cupola in the first place as far as I can tell.
Vampiric mists are thematically associated with Nhimbaloth, so it made sense to include one in the cupola, sort of like a moth being drawn to a flame. Not every encounter in the dungeon leads to a step forward in the plot mechanically; some lead steps forward in the plot thematically.
This sort of encounter helps to set the flavor and feel and theme of the adventure path. And some really on-the-ball players might note the presence of a vampiric mist and realize that might mean the influence of Nhimbaloth... be it from player knowledge (which whether or not they keep that separate from character knowledge can still create some fun spooky realizations), or from character knowledge when someone Recalls Knowledge about the creatures. Gives you, the GM, a chance to lay some foreshadowing.
Hm. Is Nhimbaloth an obscure diety on Golarion generally? Or amongst religious or occult scholars, or amongst those generally knowledgeable, though perhaps not considered scholars, in those fields? Trying to figure out where to set the DC of checks to Recall Knowledge that vampiric mists are associated with Nhimbaloth.
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Hm. Is Nhimbaloth an obscure diety on Golarion generally? Or amongst religious or occult scholars, or amongst those generally knowledgeable, though perhaps not considered scholars, in those fields? Trying to figure out where to set the DC of checks to Recall Knowledge that vampiric mists are associated with Nhimbaloth.
Yes, she's very obscure. I'd say in the category of Master (DC 30) to Recall Knowledge about perhaps... but I don't recall if that's what we went with in print in Abomination Vaults. Certainly playing through that Adventure Path will reveal more knowledge about her.
As for obscure to players? Depends on if they've read about her before. As far as entities in they mythos goes she's very obscure overall, since I invented her a few decades ago for my unpublished Unspeakable Futures game, and only sold her off to Paizo during Strange Aeons, if I recall correctly.
I'd say that for the vampiric mist... take the normal DC for their level and then if someone gets a critical success on that check, drop the bit about them being associated with an obscure deity known as the Empty Death, and then if the PCs research more then start parceling out more tidbits.
That helps a lot, thank you!
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First book went with DC 25, though maybe thats more of just knowing name of the deity rather than what it is about
DC 25 works just fine. In fact, that's better for a lower level adventure, where the point is that the PCs should learn about Nhimbaloth before the end of that first one so they have as much of the dungeon to anticipate where that plot might go.
So one of my players wants to play a summoner. It sure seems like Gauntlight would counter the Manifest Eidolon activity, which is a teleportation effect into Gauntlight, but I don't think I'm going to do that.
That's usually what "persistent" means, but if I were gming it, I'd rule it only applies as long as the tendril is touching the target.
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I'm sure I just keep missing it, but can anyone tell me the route that Boss Skrawng and the rest of the Mitflits took to get to level one? It doesn't look like any of the areas that he is familiar with have a way up.
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I'm sure I just keep missing it, but can anyone tell me the route that Boss Skrawng and the rest of the Mitflits took to get to level one? It doesn't look like any of the areas that he is familiar with have a way up.
My guess would be through area B19 (Freznelkesh's Lair). The drake appears to leave its lair often enough for food trips anyway. Maybe they were lucky when they were ousted by the Morlocks? Then again the book mentions that their 'violent eviction' diminished their group.
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My guess would be through area B19 (Freznelkesh's Lair). The drake appears to leave its lair often enough for food trips anyway. Maybe they were lucky when they were ousted by the Morlocks? Then again the book mentions that their 'violent eviction' diminished their group.I'm sure I just keep missing it, but can anyone tell me the route that Boss Skrawng and the rest of the Mitflits took to get to level one? It doesn't look like any of the areas that he is familiar with have a way up.
This is correct. Remember that with great cowardice comes great fear, and the mitflits would not risk moving through areas that are too scary—they waited for area B19 to be empty and the morlocks, if they noticed them, likely thought of them more like pests to be scared and teased and mocked rather than anything worth fighting.
Still that trip saw a lot of mitflits get killed. I think it's fair to say that only 25% of them survived the relocation.
Has anyone put together handouts for the partial maps given by Boss Skrawng or Graulgust?I'm starting this this week, I'll likely work something up in the next couple weeks.
Any chance you're still working on these?
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My party is just about to start chapter 4 but we are having massive troubles with the combat. We are all new to the game (coming from 5e) except for me and I have only 2 books of Age of Ashes under me. To make them stronger, I am using the free archetype rule.
Party is:
Swashbuckler/acrobatic - tank
Druid/fighter - off tank/healer (medicine & good berries)
Wizard/cleric - dps/support
Rogue/ranger - dps/skillIn combat, I feel like they are doing the right things. Druid is wildshaping and helping flank. Swashbuckler is tumbling to get into flanking position. Rogue is getting into flanking and sneak attacking. Wizard tries to get a clear line of sight or he uses illusions/magic missile. Monsters are attacking (up to 3 times, not sure if this recommended) or using special abilities.
My players feel like they are constantly getting beat to crap and are struggling to kill the monsters in a timely manner. On top of that, almost all of the monsters are floor 3 & 4 are higher level then them. So they have less of a chance to hit, get hit more, and the wizard is struggling to get anything to land.
I have heard this module is well balanced and fun, and most of the players love the setting but combat is making people want to quit. Can anyone help me solve this?
If your party is really struggling with combat, there's nothing wrong with either applying the Weak template to some enemies that seem too powerful for them. The module is a tough one.
Speaking of tough, does the Dooms of Tomorrow trap seem insanely powerful to anyone else? RAW, both of the first two set off when you step through the door to the area, each rolling a +16 to hit with 2d10+13 (average of 24) damage. The highest AC in my party is 19, meaning the chance that one of these traps instakills whoever walks in is not unreasonably low.
EDIT: After rereading, I suppose if you want to be generous, there's a path you can take where you only end up within 10 feet of the back of one of the first two alcoves but skirt outside the range of the rest of them. But even just getting hit by one seems brutal.
My guess would be through area B19 (Freznelkesh's Lair). The drake appears to leave its lair often enough for food trips anyway. Maybe they were lucky when they were ousted by the Morlocks? Then again the book mentions that their 'violent eviction' diminished their group.I'm sure I just keep missing it, but can anyone tell me the route that Boss Skrawng and the rest of the Mitflits took to get to level one? It doesn't look like any of the areas that he is familiar with have a way up.
This is correct. Remember that with great cowardice comes great fear, and the mitflits would not risk moving through areas that are too scary—they waited for area B19 to be empty and the morlocks, if they noticed them, likely thought of them more like pests to be scared and teased and mocked rather than anything worth fighting.
Still that trip saw a lot of mitflits get killed. I think it's fair to say that only 25% of them survived the relocation.
Thank you both!
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There's a story here
That there is! (And if you wanna see it, it's printed on page 57 of "Malevolence" where I go on for a page about the making of the adventure—in Ron's defense, though, I can't remember if his Jhaltero of the Kintargo Jhalteros was at that particular session where the group got run off by the spooky spooks...)
Is there a physical description of Belcorra somewhere that I'm missing? I've been looking for one because she shows up so many times but haven't found one. The portrait describes her as a "smirking woman." The blood of Belcorra haunt is Belcorra, but blood. And the images in Eyes of Empty Death are of ghosty Belcorra. I'm not sure if it's even said that she's human. The image on her page in Eyes of Empty Death has pointy ears, so maybe she's a half-elf?
The party is supposed to recognize Belcorra on sight - multiple times - after they see the portrait of her. An art piece of that portrait would have been nice (in hindsight).
Am I just missing a description somewhere? There are obviously hundreds of results when I search for "Belcorra" in the PDFs.
There is a thread about Belcorra's appearance. But it will not help you much, except for not feeling alone in your plight.
No description for the villain who is personally known to every boss and shows up multiple times is a pretty big oversight!
I can see how it would happen on the writing side, though. Book one establishes Belcorra and her history, but she doesn't physically appear in that volume, so why describe her there? Book three has her character entry, except it only gives her stat block and her role in book three because her background was described in book one. And she was referenced 236 times in books one and two, so surely she doesn't need a physical description at the end of the adventure.
The other example of "this makes sense from a writing perspective but is totally unhelpful if you are running the adventure" is the sidequest with the missing thieves. The sidequest entry with the boat briefly mentions that four thieves are missing. The only information given about them, though, isn't in the sidequest, but in B24, where the three survivors are found. And further, while the three who survived are named, the poor sacrificed thief is unnamed. From a writer's perspective, who cares what the dead one's name is - he's a corpse. But from a GM's perspective, when the party discovers the connection to the Crook's Nook (it's an easy check!), the very first question they're going to ask Yinyasmera is the names and descriptions of the thieves. And that information is buried in another chapter and incomplete to boot.
I don't mean this with any rancor, because I know publishing is not easy and deadlines are a thing. It's easy to miss stuff, especially when you've been working on a project for a long time. And I suppose that's what these forums are for!
And in case anyone is looking for info on the thieves, the surviving three are Gorul Vetters, Shad Nunder, and Ziskilly Theed. I gave them random-ish ancestries. The fourth is a human man.
I figure you can make her look like you want her to look. Find some cool picture that fits what you want and that's Belcorra.
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So I'm running Abom Vaults on every other weekend when one of our players can't make the regular game (We're going through Ashes normally, and this gives the GM a chance to play some himself! :D)
Sadly, we're down to 3 players, plus myself, so what I've done is given them an extra level. This seems to balance out pretty well so far, and if this character party sticks around, I'll be running Ruby Phoenix the same way (or even with a new group, I might just do that.)
The group consists of:
Spirit Instinct Barbarian
Forensic Science Investigator
Redeemer of Pharasma Champion
The two best moments so far:
Going through the first level and clearing out the Mitflits, one mitflit accepted the Redeemer Reaction ability and aborted his attack. The Redeemer (a Dwarf) immediately said, "Ok, he's the one I'm sparing." Every other mitflit took lethal damage, but the Champion non-lethal'd him down to unconsciousness. The rest of the mitflits, including Boss Skrawng all, perished in combat (Boss got crit by the barbarian and it was not pretty. Didn't even get a chance to surrender. Hahaha!) So, the party continues to clear out the first level and leaves the Scorpion alone.
Then, for whatever reason, the party decided they need an official representative of the tribe to officially declare peace with the village of Otari. So, this poor Mitflit, bound and woozy from the multiple hammer strikes to the forehead, wakes up to see the entire party standing over him, smiling and holding out a piece of paper that he can't read. They speak to him in VERY broken undercommon, and tell him he is the new chief and he can agree to not attack the village. Fearing for his life, again, he agrees to whatever is being said. The party lets him go and congratulates him on becoming king (yes, they changed the title halfway through.)
He then gets the scorpion to not sting him immediately, and rides him off to the sunset...until he comes back because it was dark and the Fens are scary. So every so often, the party comes back to see just a little bit of progress on the lighthouse. Next time, they're gonna see mud "drying" to fill in a particularly nasty part of the wall that's fallen in on itself.
The next part is not nearly as long, but it shows that enemies can be great NPCs if they get the chance.
So, the Morlocks are downstairs and the party fights AROUND the barracks area of the second level and works their way to the back of Graulgust's throne room. Everyone is just as shocked when the party comes barging in, and in the fight, Graulgust is wounded, but not fatally. So, the party immediately captures him and takes him back to Otari as apparently, there are multiple tribes and kingdoms in the Gauntlight (to the point that the Pharasman Champion has joked about taking "Lore: Gauntlight Nobility" get things straight.)
In Otari, good old Longsaddle has a quick chat with the party to please take a bath before coming in all swampy and damp into his garrison, but takes Graulgust as prisoner. A day goes by, and the party gets nothing good out of Graulgust for information, so they head back into the Gauntlight. All the Morlocks have just gone. So they continue to look around until they come up to a hallway with 4 Morlocks and 2 Engineers are literally constructing a ballista to fight the party. A quick call of peace comes out and it comes out that the Lead Engineer was tired of all this "Worshiping of the Blood Ghost" and losing valuable engineers to a random sacrifice, so if he could get proof that Graulgust was dead, he'd let them past without any issues. The party did one better and brought Graulgust to the Engineer. I think the words I used were, "In no civilized land of Golarian would what is happening in front of you be acceptable."
But, because "justice" was done, the Engineer actually helped walk them through the rest of the second level (there was only one fight that they hadn't completed yet, so that was an easy thing to bypass.).
Saturday is the start of Chapter 3. I can't wait to see how this will turn out.
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Almost had a TPK with my group (level 1) after the party recklessy bumped into the Bloodsiphon (L+4). By extreme luck they managed to take it down with only the bard left standing. Thanks to this epic fight the party was catapulted to level 2.
After a quick trip to town the party is now once again exploring the ruins (surface level). They actually have roughly 50% left to go and are now close to Boss Skrawng, even though they already are level 2. I'm looking for the right moment to start Deadtide, probably after they're done with Skrawng.
I tried to build the suspense leading up to Deadtide by having the players make random perception checks over the course of the past several sessions. These checks revealed increasing tremors/ripples surging through the ground towards Gauntlight tower, and more recently a 'static' kind of feel to indicate the increasing build up of magic energy. It's really starting to freak them out - can't wait to start Deadtide, probably next session!
I also plan to expand on the Deadtide event (if things go as planned) by having the party fend off waves of weak undead ('damaged' zombies that survived the initial impact of jumping of the cliff, bij landing on the increasing pile of other zombies/skeletons) in Otari, holding out until Longsaddle and the guard show up to relieve them.
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No description for the villain who is personally known to every boss and shows up multiple times is a pretty big oversight!
It is. And I think your suggested reason behind it seems plausible, also I think it's such a given, such a major thing to have a description of the main villain - especially as she appears in a painting in the first book - that you can miss to include it just because of that. But Paizo's AP books, while generally good, are published once a month and are to my understanding seldom playtested (which would likely have caught this), so with that brisk production schedule you cannot really expect Mask of Nyarlathotep-level attention to detail. In my experience the errors/omissions are usually remarkable few. Not that that excuses not having a detailed physical description of your BBEG.
Anyway, I said to my players that the painting in A22 was too faded to make out any details. I couldn't find any good substitute image myself, despise trawling Google image search and Pinterest. Then again I'm spoiled by the excellent art quality in Paizo's product and won't accept any old anime drawing, nor a photo. Did anyone find a "stand-in" image of Belcorra that they are happy with and are willing to share a link?
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Question regarding the dead Purple Worm in B35. In several of the adjacent rooms the necromantic energies spilling over out of Gauntlight have reanimated the dead monsters inside (the minotaur and Majordomo, for instance).
It seems unlogical that this huge dead worm (or the skeletal duergar inside it, for that matter) remains dead. Especially since it's actually on top of the 'ley line' of necromantic energy (the ribbon).
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Question regarding the dead Purple Worm in B35. In several of the adjacent rooms the necromantic energies spilling over out of Gauntlight have reanimated the dead monsters inside (the minotaur and Majordomo, for instance).
It seems unlogical that this huge dead worm (or the skeletal duergar inside it, for that matter) remains dead. Especially since it's actually on top of the 'ley line' of necromantic energy (the ribbon).
You certainly could make those undead creatures (the Duergar for sure), but the second level is kinda dangerous already. I'd have the Duergar animate as a normal skeleton, but treat the Purple Worm as a hazard that flails about without any purpose. Say, necromantic energies that aren't working properly because of the nature of the enchantment. So, it could do an attack on anyone in B35, +10 to hit, 1d8 + 6 damage.
You could even treat it as a haunt for anyone with the Ghost Hunter archetype or if someone is daring, the Thaumaturge class with a lantern implement. A Religion check to disrupt the necromantic energies (temporarily, for like a minute or so), and/or an Atheltics check to wrestle the dessciated purple worm down to where it doesn't attack everyone.
Just a few thoughts. :)
I think he's asking why the dead Purple Worm hasn't been reanimated by all the necromantic energies flowing about, when other dead monsters have been reanimated.
My guess: because the writer didn't feel like that reanimation would be good for the story. That or he just didn't see the logical inconsistency.
I think he's asking why the dead Purple Worm hasn't been reanimated by all the necromantic energies flowing about, when other dead monsters have been reanimated.
Yes this exactly. Especially since the worm is on top of the 'channel' of necromantic energy.
Buy I like the ideas posted by Churcher!
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The point of the giant worm carcass in the dungeon isn't to TPK a low-level group with an encounter featuring an undead purple worm, but to foreshadow the link to the Darklands and to instill in the players a sense of being at the tip of an iceberg where they are facing something truly dangerous. Finding evidence that someone kept a pet purple worm is intended to make the players nervous, not to give them a fight.
As for those necromantic energies... they follow the rules of magic (and plot) not scientific logic. If the PCs worry that those energies might animate the worm, that's as spooky as anything else. Maybe when they find it, the worm gives a great but ultimately harmless if spooky undead twitch?
Or maybe a purple worm's mind and soul are just not interesting enough to corrupt into undeath for the forces at play?
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The point of the giant worm carcass in the dungeon isn't to TPK a low-level group with an encounter featuring an undead purple worm, but to foreshadow the link to the Darklands and to instill in the players a sense of being at the tip of an iceberg where they are facing something truly dangerous. Finding evidence that someone kept a pet purple worm is intended to make the players nervous, not to give them a fight.
This was very successful for my group. They flipped the eff out when they found it.
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I don't know where else to post this, so I'll post it here. If you're an artist familiar with Abomination Vaults, I would love to see a Pathfinder Infinite art pack of named but un-illustrated characters, especially the Otari characters.
So I'm running Abom Vaults on every other weekend when one of our players can't make the regular game (We're going through Ashes normally, and this gives the GM a chance to play some himself! :D)
Sadly, we're down to 3 players, plus myself, so what I've done is given them an extra level. This seems to balance out pretty well so far, and if this character party sticks around, I'll be running Ruby Phoenix the same way (or even with a new group, I might just do that.)The group consists of:
Spirit Instinct Barbarian
Forensic Science Investigator
Redeemer of Pharasma Champion
Well, let me type up what's happened since I last updated this. And, it's been....interesting to say the least.
(Chapter 3 Spoilers ahead)
We've only had two sessions in Chapter 3, but they've been pretty packed. The first encounter was with the sole Morlock Ghast who's pretty chill, but the party still takes severe umbrage with the undead, so after a very SHORT conversation, they forcefully put this Morlock to rest. They discover the spy haunt and disable that with a couple of prayers to Pharasma. Once done, they come across the "green ghost" and starts a series of combat turns when they come up to the Mist Stalker, then into the main library filled with ghouls, and ending in the restricted section with a cultist and more ghouls. But, the party of 3 makes quick work of everything (and we learn that Phantom Pain is a REALLY good spell for Persistent Damage!")
The next session rolls around and the group starts looking around for more stuff and investigates more around the library and get the basic stuff that they need to. They decide to retrace their steps and come up to Korlok's chamber. Seeing fiend, they attack immediately, and a series of strong attacks really brought the party to their knees. The Spirit Instinct Barbarian did some major damage in, but took a pretty nasty attack right as Korlok perished. And the Infernal wound caused a bunch of damage, to the point where a series of rolls couldn't align and she sadly perished to bloodloss. The player had a strong desire to play an Automoton from Guns and Gears, so he was going to build up a monk. In the time to fix up the last two characters and do the burial rites for the barbarian, we had an Automoton Monk in the jail. A bit of roleplaying and trips back to town, and we're back in the Vaults. A profanity-ridden Lurker-in-Light died trying to run away, and that's where we sit now. It's been....INTERESTING.
One of my player's (an alchemist) gathered some of the Blood of Belcorra from the light-house into a vial and took it back to Otari. They haven't been there at night yet so haven't seen the haunt. They brought it to Wrin, who took it for further study. I'm not sure what to do with it though. Should it be inert after leaving the lighthouse? Or perhaps Wrin can figure out something from studying it, so that when they return after dark they may come prepared to handle the haunt. Any cool ideas?
One of my player's (an alchemist) gathered some of the Blood of Belcorra from the light-house into a vial and took it back to Otari. They haven't been there at night yet so haven't seen the haunt. They brought it to Wrin, who took it for further study. I'm not sure what to do with it though. Should it be inert after leaving the lighthouse? Or perhaps Wrin can figure out something from studying it, so that when they return after dark they may come prepared to handle the haunt. Any cool ideas?
Not sure, but imo its the proximity to Gauntlight/the Empty Vault/the necromantic energy-ribbon that makes the blood 'active', so it could be inert after removing it.
But maybe studying it could reveal the abberation-strain in the Haruvex-bloodline, so you can build upon the mystery of Belcorra and her dark powers?| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Popping here to say that I replaced vampiric touch with earlier Worm's Repast and it worked out great :D
It makes sense to me since 1) its still quite dangerous while level 2 spell on level 1 party is much fairer 2) Worm's Repast seems to be spell either designed or at least learned by Volluk and he is creator of the soulbound doll sooo....
This is a genius level suggestion. Definitely adopting it when I run this AP. Thanks for the share of this idea!
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This is a genius level suggestion. Definitely adopting it when I run this AP. Thanks for the share of this idea!Popping here to say that I replaced vampiric touch with earlier Worm's Repast and it worked out great :D
It makes sense to me since 1) its still quite dangerous while level 2 spell on level 1 party is much fairer 2) Worm's Repast seems to be spell either designed or at least learned by Volluk and he is creator of the soulbound doll sooo....
Thanks :D
Sidenote, Ron Lundeen's pathfinder infinite "Abomination Vaults GMs Guide" (its basically gm cheatsheet, it has cheat sheet of all sidequests of entire ap and reprints all statblocks of campaign) also replaced vampiric touch, though that one used phantom pain x'D Yeah I prefer Worm's Repast for thematic reasons