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So, I can see where you're coming from on the Dragons, but I think the idea long term for the Angel Eidolon (and presumably Demon) is that in the long term, other more specific and focused base types can be presented to represent specific Celestial types with more fidelity.
Ie, since there's not infinite space in Secrets of Magic, we're getting just the "Angel", which is a temporary stand in for othrr Celestials.
But in the long term, we can add Azatas, with unique Azata things instead of travelers aura or whatever Angels get in the print edition.
Whether its better to have a Super Generic Celestial base type now and do all the specific Celestial types later as a swap of their 7th level ability is a good discussion to have though. I wouldn't hate that, but I suppose we'll see if that's the direction Paizo wants to go - or if having Angel as a core option is too iconic for them to pass on.
One question the problem is the label? Because I would rather have an weaker but more a la carte eidolon like one of the other poster had in mind. The problem with that is the issue that he will be weaker than the current ways an eidolon is built.
But if the problem is just a label yeah that could solve it. Current archetypal eidolons also are fine to me but I would rather see a more customizable one even if he loses on some cool abilities like the current dragon eidolon has.
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So the super generic beast type seems to work better imo. I get why they want angels there iconic but it also why I feel that why they shouldn't have angels because they can't live up to their meta. In much the same way a pitfiend eidolon would be exercise in frustrations because what they are isn't something the eidolon chassis can do justice too.
I'm certainly not opposed to a Celestial or Fiend base type as opposed to Angel or Demon, in general. Its more broad, and it does address some peoples hangups with not being able to achieve things like Flight at level 1 - and it certainly doesnt prevent people who want to have an Angel from building one.
It might be a step backwards for those looking for more mechanical distinctiveness at level 1, though.
So far of the granted abities given to eidolon based on type only the travelling aura is something inherently Angelic. The rest could work for any celestial (good damage and healing spells) and any draconic creature (a super generic breath weapon and a flurrry of attacks that refreshes said breath weapon and another ability that is so generic I can't even remember what it is) .
Basically supercharge breath weapon.
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So far nearly all of the granted abities given to eidolon based on type only the travelling aura is something inherently Angelic. The rest could work for any celestial (good damage and healing spells) and any draconic creature (a super generic breath weapon, a flurrry of attacks that refreshes said breath weapon and another ability that is soo generic I can't even remember what it is) .
You're not wrong.
In the case of Dragons, breath weapons are pretty universal but the Draconic Frenzy ability could easily be swapped around for something more appropriate to say, Linnorms (looks like Constrict?).
Making the level 7 ability the "subtype specific" swap would allow for a lot of efficiency and mileage from a broad base type.
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I don't see how the Dragon as written doesn't live up to its concept. Your getting a medium sized dragon, that means a fledgling or hatchling. Smaller and thus younger then anything in the books. By level 6 you can take hulking to be the same size as young dragons of similar level, and by 14 you can take towering to be huge just like adult dragons of similar level.
The fantasy of getting a Dragon egg and raising a dragon.
Flight is a mechanical/power issue people are just going to struggle with, it sucks but that's the way things look to stay.
On the other hand you can keep your Dragon smaller and say they will grow in a few decades or hundred years, what ever floats your boat.
Could it be better, sure, but I think people are wanting to fill out some epic fantasy type stuff at level one and not thinking about growing into the epic fantasy concept.
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Once you have a choice between thirteen options (I take that as a minimal number, as those are the eidolon types mentioned in the playtest text), if you don't like any of them you can ask your GM to mix and match stuff to create something that is closer to your fantasy.
Just like you can do with backgrounds: it won't break the game.
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The best your going to get for flight is ask your GM. It ranges from a nifty thematic ability to a game breaking adventure ruining thing that GMs loath. Maybe Mark could put a caveat on the full flight saying it could be taken at lower level but becomes uncommon, so you have to ask for it. We all want it, but it's valued very differently by different groups.
The other issue though, if you think your getting a flying, town roasting, fear aura great wyrm at level one, well, as I said, curb your expectations. Have you read Age of Fire, Erragon, Pit dragon, Dragon of ash and stars or Temeraire? All books that feature baby dragons that grow up in them. I also ran the original council of wyrms module where you start the adventure by hatching and protecting your nesting area from trolls. Having dragons and Dragon like powers put at PC scale is often going to look like it's weak and not living up to its potential as your part of a group, and a dragon is often its own group. We just have to get enough feel and flavor to make a good progression. If you run into a young level 6 Dragon when your level 3, it will look terrifying, but that same Dragon when your level 10 will look insignificant.
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The best your going to get for flight is ask your GM. It ranges from a nifty thematic ability to a game breaking adventure ruining thing that GMs loath. Maybe Mark could put a caveat on the full flight saying it could be taken at lower level but becomes uncommon, so you have to ask for it. We all want it, but it's valued very differently by different groups.
The other issue though, if you think your getting a flying, town roasting, fear aura great wyrm at level one, well, as I said, curb your expectations. Have you read Age of Fire, Erragon, Pit dragon, Dragon of ash and stars or Temeraire? All books that feature baby dragons that grow up in them. I also ran the original council of wyrms module where you start the adventure by hatching and protecting your nesting area from trolls. Having dragons and Dragon like powers put at PC scale is often going to look like it's weak and not living up to its potential as your part of a group, and a dragon is often its own group. We just have to get enough feel and flavor to make a good progression. If you run into a young level 6 Dragon when your level 3, it will look terrifying, but that same Dragon when your level 10 will look insignificant.
One of the best things about 2E is that because of how the level scaling works, even an Ancient Wurm Red Dragon is a mere villainous minion at the highest level.
Makes for an epic encounter, but they do lack slightly in the "terror" department when a Fighter can take it head to head and expect easy victory.
I don't see how the Dragon as written doesn't live up to its concept. Your getting a medium sized dragon, that means a fledgling or hatchling. Smaller and thus younger then anything in the books. By level 6 you can take hulking to be the same size as young dragons of similar level, and by 14 you can take towering to be huge just like adult dragons of similar level.
The fantasy of getting a Dragon egg and raising a dragon.
Flight is a mechanical/power issue people are just going to struggle with, it sucks but that's the way things look to stay.
On the other hand you can keep your Dragon smaller and say they will grow in a few decades or hundred years, what ever floats your boat.
Could it be better, sure, but I think people are wanting to fill out some epic fantasy type stuff at level one and not thinking about growing into the epic fantasy concept.So this may be me just watching too much media, reading too many books, playing to many games, listening too many fairy tales but what a dragon is first and foremost is the thing that fly over your village burning it to ashes. Its a a nightmare a force of nature.Its the reason you need those legendary heroes in the first place because normal people cannot resist the touch flame, scale and talon.
Its Smaug, Alduin, its its Nidhogg, Jormungandur, fanfnir, sometimes its an end not even gods can fight.
Not to mention dragons are one of the few constants in Mythology, Europe, Asia, South America they all have their dragons. If their is a collective subconscious pretty close to the top of the monsters that might live their is the dragon.
So yes clearly I take dragons overly seriously and all the dragon this dragon disciple that, dragon blood etc I find quite annoying.