Inquisitor works well. (Molthuni) arsenal chaplain warpriest and eldritch archer magus are notably good.
Pretty much any spellcaster can be an effective archer if built that way, though full spellcasters have the siren lure of focusing on their spellcasting instead. The 3/4 and full BAB types are easier to build that way of course but even sorcs, wizards, arcanists and witches can be made to work. Maybe not a psychic. Do you have any qualifiers other than 'good archer' and 'has magic'?
(Top archery DPR goes roughly arsenal chaplain > inquisitor/other warpriest > fighter > others. An eldritch archer can do momentary bursts of scaryness.)
Bards can make good archers. Arcane strike and inspire courage up damage so you don't necessarily need to use deadly aim. Good hope and/or haste plus inspire courage on turn 1 of combat then spend the rest of the time plinking away. There's even a special magic item, the tuned bowstring, that supports the concept.
Depending on starting level, going human to grab point blank shot and precise shot at level 1 is strongly recommended.
How good has an archer to be in order to qualify for "good archer"?
The majority of casters can make archery work at least reasonably well.
Full casters: All medium BAB full casters work, although mostly with stronger casting than archery. Nature's Fang Druid, Warsighted or Ocean's Echo Oracle (Battle or Wood mystery), Crusader Cleric, Name-Keeper Shaman (Battle Spirit) can make pretty good archers.
6/9 Casters: Inquisitor (Bane), Warpriest (Fervor and MAC's Weapon Training), and Occultist (transmutation Implement) make excellent archers, often better than martials. Bard (Inspire Courage), Investigator (with Ranged Study), and Magus (Eldritch Archer archetype) can also make good archers. Alchemist, Hunter, and Skald (with Twilight Speaker, Spell Warrior, or Urban archetype) are doable, too.
4/9 casters: Medium (channeling Champion Spirit) makes an excellent archer. Paladin, Ranger, and Bloodrager (with Urban archetype) make good archers, too.
What makes the Arsenal Chaplain so very good for an archer? If you dont mind me asking.
Archery requires a lot of feats, but can almost always full attack, and gets up to 2 bonus attacks over other martials. Thus, bonus feats and bonus to damage rolls are what you're looking for. Warpriest, and especially MAC, grants both, and can take bonus feats (especially Manyshot) earlier than other medium BAB classes.
@avr I was realy just thinking of an archer, Thats good at archery, But has access to some spells and utility. I hadent planned too much and was just curious to see what was avalable.
What makes the Arsenal Chaplain so very good for an archer? If you dont mind me asking.
@Darigaaz the Igniter Did not think of Bard, Thanks!
The Arsenal Chaplain Warpriest gets the Fighter's Weapon Training class feature which ends up as a significant accuracy and damage boost. It also opens up GLOVES OF DUELING which are a more efficiant use of your money than going up to a +3 weapon (and eventually stack with a +3 weapon).
The main draw of ranged combat in Pathfinder is the ability to full-attack every round. Even though the Barbarian is dealing 6d6+24 damage per hit they have to move up to the enemy before attacking, and once they've downed that enemy they have to spend actions moving again. Not so for the archer - you may only deal 1d8+14 damage per hit, but you'll make so many more attacks that the damage trophy will go to you.
The Warpriest and Magus (and I'm sure a few notable others) have the benefit that they can full-attack in the same round as casting. The Magus does this better since the Warpriest can only swift-action cast spells on themselves (no debuffs or group buffs), but they're both amazing for action economy.
(Of course any caster can swift-action cast with quickened spell.)
For most other caster/archers you'll want to have one big spell you cast at the beginning of combat, then just fire away.
The Bard for example will be able to Inspire Courage plus Haste in a single round at level 7, giving everyone in the party (including themself) +3 to hit, +2 to damage and an extra attack. This is a phenomenal use of a round and well worth losing 1 round of attacks.
The Wizard may wish to cast Black Tentacles to prevent those pesky orcs from charging, giving your party all the time in the world to pick off the hapless greenskins as they struggle in the grip of inevitability.
Whichever route you take, your first two feets should be Ppint Blank Shot and Precise Shot. You can't damage something if you can't hit it.
Next up you probably want Rapid Shot and Deadly Aim (the Inquisitor will want Rapid Shot first for the spike damage with Bane, but for most classes the order of these two doesn't matter as much).
After that there's Manyshot, Clustered Shot, Snap Shot (and Improved). Weapon Focus is boring but solid (Weapon Specialization is great if available as well). Shot on the Run could be useful. I kinda want to make an Archon Style character at some point.
Special mention should probably go to Vital Strike. You don't need to do this, but readying am action to fire at an enemy caster when the go to cast a spell can completely shut them down. You don't actually need Vital Strike to do this (in fact the +1d8 damage probably won't really matter) but investing 1 feat into this might help you remember that this option is there for you. Heck even just reading avout it here might be enough to jog your memory at the right time (you're welcome ;D ).
Honestly this post has gone way longer than I thought it would, and I'm vaguely straying off topic so I'll leave it there.
It's a bit further afield, since it's spell-likes rather than spellcasting, but the qingqong monk archetype stacks with zen archer, which is a darn good archer on its own. My wife is currently playing this combo, now at 9th level. She took barkskin to make her good AC even better, and dragon's breath to give herself an AOE attack when dealing with swarms and other things her arrows can't do enough damage to.
Warpriest with the Air Domain makes a pretty frightening archer build, and then if you can play a Mythic character, take the path ability Limitless Range and then talk your DM into letting you target things that you magically scry. Hit enemies from anywhere on the planet at no range penalty!
A good archer is going to require a couple of things. First obviously is proficiency with bows, preferably a long bow. Second is going to be the basic archery feats. Minimum is going to be point-blank shot, precise shot rapid shot and deadly aim. If you want to hit you are also going to need at least medium BAB. The ability to increase your chance to hit and damage is also important. The last can be done with feats, class abilities or even spells. The last thing an effective archer needs is some way to deal with the fact that firing a bow provokes an attack of opportunity. There are two ways to deal with this, the first is to find some way to eliminate provoking an AoO, the second is to be able to function using a melee weapon.
As was mentioned in the original post Inquisitors can be very effective archers. They are a medium BAB class with proficiency with bow. Between bane, judgements and spells they have a lot of ways to increase your chance to hit and damage. Since bane, judgements and spells are can also be used in melee you can still function when the bow cannot be used. You could even pick up quick draw and go for a switch hitter build.
Inquisitors also have good fortitude and will saves. While that does not have anything to do with being a good archer it has a lot to being an effective character. Since most of their spells tend to be buffs and utility they don’t need to max out their casting stat like other casters. As long as you have enough WIS to be able to cast your spells you are fine. This allows you to focus on other stats. You will want a decent (probably around 14 STR) and a good DEX. That means even your week save is going to be fairly decent. Your DEX and medium armor should be give you a decent AC, and more importantly a good touch AC.
Being able to add both WIS and DEX to initiative means more often than not you will be going fist. This will mean that you can get your buffs up and going before you get attacked. Just remember that a high initiative does not mean you go first, it allows you to choose when you go.
The inquisitors spell list mostly buffs and utility spells. But this is exactly what you want for an archer. If you have a lot of offensive spells, why bother with archery? But an invisible archer is something that is always useful.
What sort of magic do you like Merellin? Alchemists and eldritch archers and arcane archers can do the flashy stuff, inquisitors, warpriests, rangers and hunters do selfish buffs, oracles, clerics and eldritch archers do party buffs well, and any number of spellcasters have useful utility.
Arrowsong minstrel is like the bardic archetype to go into arcane archer
Honestly the big draw of Eldritch Archer for me is that you can Haste the party and still full-attack the same round.
Being able to throw out some buffs/debuffs/battlefield-control while full-attacking every round seems more important than adding more damage to your damage so you can damage while you damage.
Not that having the option of all that damage is bad, I just wouldn't rate it as the best thing the class can do.
Honestly the big draw of Eldritch Archer for me is that you can Haste the party and still full-attack the same round.
Being able to throw out some buffs/debuffs/battlefield-control while full-attacking every round seems more important than adding more damage to your damage so you can damage while you damage.
Not that having the option of all that damage is bad, I just wouldn't rate it as the best thing the class can do.
I honestly think swift action buffs are up in the top 3 most powerful things you can do in the game.
I honestly think swift action buffs are up in the top 3 most powerful things you can do in the game.
Let me guess ...
3. Swift action buffs
2. Immediate action buffs
1. Free action buffs
Yeah that's fair. Buffs/debuffs are only good to a point. Eventually someone has to be the damage dealer.
(Heh, now I'm imagining a party who does no damage but has so many buffs/debuffs that they can just ignore the enemy while they search the dungeon for treasure. I don't know how doable it is, but it'd be hilarious.)
The Occultist can manage:
- Full BAB (with the trappings of the warrior panoply)
- Six Level Casting
- Gravity Bow
- Bane on Demand (transmutation implement) once your weapon is at least +1.
Eventually you can cast Aroden's Spellsword on your bow to stash a lesser metamagic rod of quickening in there so you can drop Gravity Bow and Bane (whatever you're fighting) in a single round of prebuffing.
Archery's going to be really feat intensive, but you can make this truly disgusting. Probably the second most powerful archer I ever saw was a Haunt Collector Trappings of the Warrior Occultist with a Hornbow (the most was a ranger/erastilite cleric/hinterlander that critical pathed Antimagic Field delivered through an arrow and used Wis to hit).
@PossibleCabbage Dont Trappings of the Warrior requier you to have both a weapon and a shield at the same time? How can you wield a shield and a bow? (Sorry, There is still a lot of stuff I dont know about the game..)
bucklers are still a shield
Occultists are my new favourite class, and a Haunt Collector with Trappings is disgustingly good. If you do this I'd recommend Transmutation andAbjuration at 1st level, Haunted Conjuration at 2nd level and Trappings at 6th (just a personal preference).
The other thing I'd do is forget about Gravity Bow. It's nice, but even if you're using an Orc Hornbow it's only adding ~3.5 damage per hit. Legacy Weapon (Bane) will be adding +3 to hit and ~+10 damage per hit by level 6, so you really don't need the extra damage. Liberating Command on the other hand is a Transmutation spell that only needs to be used once per campaign to make you everyone's favourite player.
Occultists are incredibly powerful and versatile, but if I'm being completely honest I think there are others who do the caster/archer character better. No bonus feats means you're waiting till level 7 (5 for Human) just to get the standard archery feats online. No swift-action buffing means you always lose that first round (Legacy Weapon is way to good to ignore). It'll 100% do the job, but I think others do it better.
Fighter1/investigator(naturalist)/hinterlander
Ranger/Wizard/Arcane Archer is the weakest I've seen.
It depends on how you go about it.
[fighter or ranger]* 1/wizard 6/eldritch knight 2/arcane archer 3/eldritch knight +8 works pretty well as both an archer (ends up with +17 BAB) and a caster (ends up with 17th level spell progression and 9th-level spells, even without Favored Prestige Class/Prestigious Spellcaster). Granted, you don't get to mix archery and casting in the same round for the first 10 levels (which is something different than "weak"), but it becomes a beast at 11th (Imbue Arrow) or 12th (5th-level spells; retrain the Arcane Armor Training feat taken at 3rd level, which the character qualifies for by taking Magical Knack with one of their starting traits, to Quicken Spell) level.
If you are trying to go ranger 6/[sorcerer or wizard] 1/arcane archer 10, then you will probably be frustrated. Arcane archer really has limited benefits (IMO) after taking 2 (Imbue Arrow) or 3 (Enhance Arrow [Elemental]) levels; all of the "trick shots" at higher levels are limited use and (other than Arrow of Death) cannot be used with the Imbue Arrow feature (they are spell-like, which require standard actions just like Imbue Arrow).
*- depending on whether you want a bonus feat from fighter or Favored Enemy (Ranger's Focus with guide archetype) and the ability to use wands of cure light wounds without Use Magic Device checks from ranger
Oh yeah.. You can use a buckler along with a bow! I honestly did not think of that. Thanks! =Dbucklers are still a shield@PossibleCabbage Dont Trappings of the Warrior requier you to have both a weapon and a shield at the same time? How can you wield a shield and a bow? (Sorry, There is still a lot of stuff I dont know about the game..)
kinda worthless IMO, since you won't get the shield bonus if you make an attack.
Maybe not exactly topical, but I'm playing a half-elf witch that wields a longbow, and I've taken Point Blank and Precise Shot as my first two feats. From here on out, I'll take more traditional Hex and spellcasting feats. In a few levels, I'll retrain the two archery feats away for something more useful. The plan is to rely on my bow for decent-ish damage at low levels while using my spell slots for support, and then to start relying on spells and hexes more and more and not worry about ranged damage when I have enough spells, hex-uses, and magic items to be able to use them more frequently.
Maybe not terribly efficient, but a robed archer is also kind of a cool visual.
Probably already been said but my favorite archers are:
1) Inquisitor with the feather domain for an animal companion and a bonus to perception and initiative. Drawback, doesn't get point blank master, though with a mount you should rarely need it. Big advantage, you can make archery full attacks while mounted even if your mount moves. You only take a penalty if the mount moves twice it's speed (I think).
2) Arsenl Chaplain Warpriest. With weapon training and counting as a fighter you can be a really strong archer.
3) Ranger, less casting that either of the previous options but full BAB. With Instant Enemy as a wand you can stack favored enemy on one type and then apply it to anyone. Can also have a mount. For the shenanigans as an Inquisitor.
kinda worthless IMO, since you won't get the shield bonus if you make an attack.
The point of the buckler and bow Occultist is to use the "Trappings of the Warrior" panoply in case the GM requires you to be holding both implements of the panoply to get the bonus. So you're using it so you can use your Abjuration focus powers and get the resonant bonuses of the implement and the panoply.
Some GMs will let you just have your shield strapped to your back and get to bonuses, in which case it doesn't matter what kind of shield. But if your GM is a stickler about "Whenever an occultist casts a spell he must ... present the implement to the target or toward the area of effect" then the buckler has you covered.
kinda worthless IMO, since you won't get the shield bonus if you make an attack.The point of the buckler and bow Occultist is to use the "Trappings of the Warrior" panoply in case the GM requires you to be holding both implements of the panoply to get the bonus. So you're using it so you can use your Abjuration focus powers and get the resonant bonuses of the implement and the panoply.
This.
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Ranger/Wizard/Arcane Archer is the weakest I've seen.It depends on how you go about it.
[fighter or ranger]* 1/wizard 6/eldritch knight 2/arcane archer 3/eldritch knight +8 works pretty well as both an archer (ends up with +17 BAB) and a caster (ends up with 17th level spell progression and 9th-level spells, even without Favored Prestige Class/Prestigious Spellcaster). Granted, you don't get to mix archery and casting in the same round for the first 10 levels (which is something different than "weak"), but it becomes a beast at 11th (Imbue Arrow) or 12th (5th-level spells; retrain the Arcane Armor Training feat taken at 3rd level, which the character qualifies for by taking Magical Knack with one of their starting traits, to Quicken Spell) level.
If you are trying to go ranger 6/[sorcerer or wizard] 1/arcane archer 10, then you will probably be frustrated. Arcane archer really has limited benefits (IMO) after taking 2 (Imbue Arrow) or 3 (Enhance Arrow [Elemental]) levels; all of the "trick shots" at higher levels are limited use and (other than Arrow of Death) cannot be used with the Imbue Arrow feature (they are spell-like, which require standard actions just like Imbue Arrow).
*- depending on whether you want a bonus feat from fighter or Favored Enemy (Ranger's Focus with guide archetype) and the ability to use wands of cure light wounds without Use Magic Device checks from ranger
Arcane Archer is also about the only way to cast Antimagic Field on someone else and just nuke the poor BBEG caster.
Arcane Archer is also about the only way to cast Antimagic Field on someone else and just nuke the poor BBEG caster.
Ranger 2/Separatist Cleric of Erastil with the Protection Domain 3/Hinterlander X works better though. Imbue Arrow comes online at 12th level and AMF shows up at 13th.
If you go back to cleric after you finish Hinterlander you end up with BAB +18, one fewer archery style combat feat than a full ranger, and the ability to cast 9th level spells (casting as per an 18th level cleric, with CL 20 if you took the Magical Knack (Cleric) trait.)
@PossibleCabbage: Hinterlander is 3/4 BAB; total +15 BAB in those hen's-teeth-rarity games which go to L20.
To point of highlight of Molthuni Arsenal Chaplain:
1) Swift action self buffing. You're primarily going to be using Divine Favor and Divine Power. Bonus point for taking fates favored trait and being an half-orc with a sacred tattoo.
2) Weapon training is a big deal, you can pick up advanced weapon training as a feat and get Warrior Spirit, which allows you to get bane against whatever enemy happen to be on the battlefield.
3) You qualify for bonus feats as though you were a fighter of your level and as if you had BAB equal to your level. While other 3/4 BAB classes would lag behind in their feat options for things like Point Blank Master (which they couldn't actually get without fighter levels) you can get it at the same time a fighter would with careful planning (I think, I'd have to double check this). You can even use the favored class bonus as a half-orc to pick up the human favored class bonus (half-orc also counts as human) to get 1/6 a bonus feat. Archery is all about feats, and the fighter and ranger are the only classes that can really out do you, but you have access to most of the same tricks as the fighter but have strong magic to support you.
Analysis has been done in the past and Arsenal Chaplain Warpriest is likely the highest damage archer in the game, but doesn't have any "tricks" that are exclusive to it or really alter the style of play. But if you want to shoot a lot of arrows at high attack bonus and high damage bonus it's really hard to beat.