Hi everyone,
I'm a bit puzzled about Fascinating Performance.
Fascinating Performance says that you can fascinate a creature in combat, but Fascinated says that you are freed from the condition if anyone makes a hostile action against you or an ally. So, you can fascinate someone during a fight but it lasts as soon as one of your allies attack? It looks quite useless.
Also, a Fascinated creature takes a small debuff to all its skills but can act normally as long as it doesn't use Concentration actions. I can understand that forcing the creature to attack you would be too much, but it looks like the creature can ignore you completely despite being Fascinated. Would you, as a DM, consider that the creature will attack you over someone else when it can do it as easily?
I ask this question because of the Battledancer Swashbuckler. I don't understand what use you can have of this style. In my opinion, Braggart is way better at forcing someone to attack you.
It is basically an opener you are doing going into a fight before anybody has acted. It is pretty situational the main reason to do it is for panache and it does serve to distract a target and stop sustained spells. Also it helps to throw off the initial reactions of your enemy specially at higher levels where you could open a fight by basically causing a number of the opponents to not pay attention to what your group is doing allowing you to set up the fight in your favor.
Also if you compare to braggart there is bit of a difference. The braggart gets panache when he successfully demoralizes his opponent the battledancer You gain panache during an encounter when the result of your Performance check to Perform exceeds the Will DC of an observing foe, even if the foe isn't fascinated.
Not a huge difference but the main goal of those abilities is putting you into a state of panache and the battledancer fascinate seems to do that reasonably effectively.
Doesn't Fascinating Performance predate the Swashbuckler? Or am I confusing it with a different ability?
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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Let's look at the various ways at level 1 to gain panache. Also worth mentioning is what each path can easily build into to determine relative value.
(All) Tumble Through: Acrobatics vs Reflex DC. Moves you through an opponent's space as part of a Stride. Can be used as part of the movement to get to the enemy with enough movement. Combos with Tumble Behind at level 2 to also make them flat-footed.
(Braggart) Demoralize: Intimidate vs Will DC. Target is Frightened on success. Combos with You're Next(lvl 1) and Antagonize(lvl 2).
(Fencer) Feint: Deception vs Perception DC. Target is Flat-footed against your next melee attack, longer on a crit. Combos with Goading Feint(lvl 1) and the Scout archetype's Scout's Charge(lvl 4). Melee only. Fencer can also use Create a Diversion to gain panache as an alternative option.
(Gymnast) Grapple, Shove, Trip: Athletics vs Fort DC or Reflex DC for Trip. Target is grappled, shoved, or tripped, depending on which option you use. Can add Disarm to that list using Disarming Flair(lvl 1), or gain additional Athletics benefits with Flamboyant Athlete(lvl 4). Generally melee only, might require Titan Wrestler to be useful. Prioritizes Str secondary instead of Cha, which increases melee weapon damage and could be more useful for a combat focused build than Cha.
(Wit)Bon Mot: Diplomacy vs Will DC. Target takes a -2 Status penalty to Perception and Will Saves for 1 minute. One For All gives an additional Panache option when Aiding using Diplomacy. Bon Mot is given for free.
(Battledancer)Fascinating Performance: Perform vs Will DC. Target is Fascinated only on a crit success in combat. Focused Fascination(lvl 1) makes the target fascinated on a normal success when in combat. Builds into Leading Dance(lvl 4) for an additional option for panache (Perform vs Will DC). Fascinating Performance is given for free.
There's also the balancing factor of each style's Exemplary Finisher, which I will not list here.
Each style's unique way of gaining panache grants a secondary useful effect, such as the enemy being frightened, flat-footed or given a penalty to attack, grappled/shoved/tripped, given a penalty to Will saves (good party play) and Perception, or... Fascinated.
Fascinate is such a bad condition for combat use. It breaks as soon as you or any of your allies takes any hostile action towards the enemy or any of the enemy's allies. While it's in effect it grants a -2 to Perception checks and skill checks and stops actions with the Concentrate tag that wouldn't target you, the source of the Fascinate.
I suppose that Leading Dance is nice, but why not just Shove as a Gymnast?
Am I correct in thinking that the Battledancer (which has BATTLE in the name) grants nothing useful for combat situations that the other styles don't do better? Or is there some hidden gem of a feat that makes it all beautifully connect as a build that I'm overlooking?
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Leading dance seems pretty good for setting up multi-target finisher
I agree that fascinate is not exactly a great condition though
leading dance clearly wins vs shove since you can move with the target and use it in every direction - also a different safe of the enemy so you can pick depending on what you fight
but since fascinating performance targets ALL onlooking foes and a bunch of enemies are afflicted there is a rather good chance for success since you most likely compare not only to high will but also low will targets
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Leading Dance + Impaling Finisher is pretty gnarly with a Rapier. Also Leading Dance is fantastic battlefield control utility, imo one of the best forced movement in the game. Can be used to get a bad guy away from squishy with no AoO trigger, or place an enemy into flanking position to get flat footed for finisher. Very creative positioning can send enemies off a cliff.
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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
You are more likely to gain panache with Battledancer than the other styles. The number of targets for fascinating performance goes up as you skill level does. Expert is four targets, master is ten, and legendary is unlimited.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
I might have been undervaluing Leading Dance due it not being available until level 4. I agree it's great battlefield control. And I think I was quite ironically focusing too hard on Focused Fascination and only considering using Fascinating Performance on a single target because of it.
Thanks for the replies.
After reading more about Leading Dance, I agree this is an absolutely fantastic feat with many creative uses. It is way better than Shove (you can move the enemy in any direction, it's not an attack, it targets Will and not Fortitude, you don't need a free hand or a Shove weapon).
And it looks like everyone agrees on Fascinating Performance being rather meh during combat. It builds Panache and that's all you can expect from it.
SuperBidi wrote: It builds Panache and that's all you can expect from it. Well, at least it's good at that
Seisho wrote: SuperBidi wrote: It builds Panache and that's all you can expect from it. Well, at least it's good at that Yes, clearly. But I would take ten times Demoralize limitations to benefit from its effect.
While fascinating performance is subpar in combat, it's pretty good in out of combat encounters. Being able to fascinate a bunch of onlookers to focus on you, allowing the rest of the party to do their stuff in peace (like sneak someplace, steal something, open a lock, setup a subtle spell and etc)
in combat, i expect battledancer will rely more on tumbling for panache since it comes bundled with a pretty good combat action, and only use fascinatig performance when it's critical that they gain panache at all costs and no danger (since they can target a bunch of mooks alongside the boss)
focused fascination is imo a bad feat, since you normally wouldnt prioritize to fascinate a single target while in combat.
yeah, focused fascination is most of the times just dead in the water
if it would inflict another condition or ignore the fascinated limitations it could be nice
but if the next one in turn order is an ally you might as well skip on it altogether
SuperBidi wrote: After reading more about Leading Dance, I agree this is an absolutely fantastic feat with many creative uses. It is way better than Shove (you can move the enemy in any direction, it's not an attack, it targets Will and not Fortitude, you don't need a free hand or a Shove weapon).
And it looks like everyone agrees on Fascinating Performance being rather meh during combat. It builds Panache and that's all you can expect from it.
Yup pretty much. Its main combat use is if a swashbuckler goes first at higher levels you can fascinate some/all of the opponents and let your party maneuver around the battlefield a bit without much worry. Other than that it is a roll you can force that lets you panache and thats about it.
I think there is a "quirk" in the Feat lines for Focused Fascination that people have not taken into account, and it is INSANELY powerful.
In fact, a Battledancer can effectively remove up to 3 opponents from the combat each turn, and none of them count as "attacks", no multi-attack penalty.
The Feat "Fascinating Performance", free to the Battledancer, adds the Trait "Incapacitate" to the Perform action. Normally, in combat, it requires a Critical Success. With Focused Fascination, a first level Swashbuckler feat, it only requires a Normal success. Performance, is a one action skill use.
Assuming you are only targeting equal or lower level creatures then you, you are built decent Charisma, you have a better than 50% chance to take out weak willed opponents, no matter their HP.
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Shain Edge wrote:
Assuming you are only targeting equal or lower level creatures then you, you are built decent Charisma, you have a better than 50% chance to take out weak willed opponents, no matter their HP.
Somebody fascinated with the swashbuckler is in no conceivable way "taken out" of the combat. Pretty much the BEST that you can hope for is that the opponent will concentrate on you. Much of the time the GM will essentially ignore the condition, or so says actual play experience with my swasher.
pauljathome wrote:
Somebody fascinated with the swashbuckler is in no conceivable way "taken out" of the combat. Pretty much the BEST that you can hope for is that the opponent will concentrate on you. Much of the time the GM will essentially ignore the condition, or so says actual play experience with my swasher.
Just putting out there what is RAW. Maybe they just run away. Incapacitation is very vague on the actual reason why you are no longer in the battle. It's anything from Death, to stone, to.. whatever.
Fascinating Performance-
"When you Perform, compare your result to the Will DC of one observer. If you succeed, the target is fascinated by you for 1 round. If the observer is in a situation that demands immediate attention, such as combat, you must critically succeed to fascinate it and the Perform action gains the incapacitation trait. You must choose which creature you’re trying to fascinate before you roll your check, and the target is then temporarily immune for 1 hour. If you’re an expert in Performance, you can fascinate up to four observers; if you’re a master, you can fascinate up to 10 observers; and if you’re legendary, you can fascinate any number of observers at the same time."
""If the observer is in a situation that demands immediate attention, such as combat, you must critically succeed to fascinate it and the Perform action __gains the incapacitation trait__.""
Incapacitation-
"An ability with this trait can take a character completely out of the fight or even kill them, and it’s harder to use on a more powerful character. If a spell has the incapacitation trait, any creature of more than twice the spell’s level treats the result of their check to prevent being incapacitated by the spell as one degree of success better, or the result of any check the spellcaster made to incapacitate them as one degree of success worse. If any other effect has the incapacitation trait, a creature of higher level than the item, creature, or hazard generating the effect gains the same benefits."
Focused Fascination-
"When you use Fascinating Performance in a combat encounter, you need only a success, rather than a critical success, to fascinate your target. This works only if you're attempting to fascinate one target. For example, if you were an expert in Performance, you could choose to target multiple creatures normally or target one creature and fascinate it on a success."
Shain Edge wrote: pauljathome wrote:
Somebody fascinated with the swashbuckler is in no conceivable way "taken out" of the combat. Pretty much the BEST that you can hope for is that the opponent will concentrate on you. Much of the time the GM will essentially ignore the condition, or so says actual play experience with my swasher.
Just putting out there what is RAW. Maybe they just run away. Incapacitation is very vague on the actual reason why you are no longer in the battle. It's anything from Death, to stone, to.. whatever.
Fascinating Performance-
"When you Perform, compare your result to the Will DC of one observer. If you succeed, the target is fascinated by you for 1 round. If the observer is in a situation that demands immediate attention, such as combat, you must critically succeed to fascinate it and the Perform action gains the incapacitation trait. You must choose which creature you’re trying to fascinate before you roll your check, and the target is then temporarily immune for 1 hour. If you’re an expert in Performance, you can fascinate up to four observers; if you’re a master, you can fascinate up to 10 observers; and if you’re legendary, you can fascinate any number of observers at the same time."
""If the observer is in a situation that demands immediate attention, such as combat, you must critically succeed to fascinate it and the Perform action __gains the incapacitation trait__.""
Incapacitation-
"An ability with this trait can take a character completely out of the fight or even kill them, and it’s harder to use on a more powerful character. If a spell has the incapacitation trait, any creature of more than twice the spell’s level treats the result of their check to prevent being incapacitated by the spell as one degree of success better, or the result of any check the spellcaster made to incapacitate them as one degree of success worse. If any other effect has the incapacitation trait, a creature of higher level than the item, creature, or hazard generating the effect gains the... ? The Incapacitation trait just makes them get a degree of success better on their save if they're above your level, it doesn't affect what the action does in any way.
This is all that the Fascinated condition does:
Quote: You are compelled to focus your attention on something, distracting you from whatever else is going on around you. You take a –2 status penalty to Perception and skill checks, and you can’t use actions with the concentrate trait unless they or their intended consequences are related to the subject of your fascination (as determined by the GM). For instance, you might be able to Seek and Recall Knowledge about the subject, but you likely couldn’t cast a spell targeting a different creature. This condition ends if a creature uses hostile actions against you or any of your allies.
Shain Edge wrote: pauljathome wrote:
Somebody fascinated with the swashbuckler is in no conceivable way "taken out" of the combat. Pretty much the BEST that you can hope for is that the opponent will concentrate on you. Much of the time the GM will essentially ignore the condition, or so says actual play experience with my swasher.
Just putting out there what is RAW. Maybe they just run away. Incapacitation is very vague on the actual reason why you are no longer in the battle. It's anything from Death, to stone, to.. whatever.
Fascinating Performance-
"When you Perform, compare your result to the Will DC of one observer. If you succeed, the target is fascinated by you for 1 round. If the observer is in a situation that demands immediate attention, such as combat, you must critically succeed to fascinate it and the Perform action gains the incapacitation trait. You must choose which creature you’re trying to fascinate before you roll your check, and the target is then temporarily immune for 1 hour. If you’re an expert in Performance, you can fascinate up to four observers; if you’re a master, you can fascinate up to 10 observers; and if you’re legendary, you can fascinate any number of observers at the same time."
""If the observer is in a situation that demands immediate attention, such as combat, you must critically succeed to fascinate it and the Perform action __gains the incapacitation trait__.""
Incapacitation-
"An ability with this trait can take a character completely out of the fight or even kill them, and it’s harder to use on a more powerful character. If a spell has the incapacitation trait, any creature of more than twice the spell’s level treats the result of their check to prevent being incapacitated by the spell as one degree of success better, or the result of any check the spellcaster made to incapacitate them as one degree of success worse. If any other effect has the incapacitation trait, a creature of higher level than the item, creature, or hazard generating the effect gains the... you misunderstood:
the incapacitation trait in no way, shape or form takes someone out of the picture.
what it does is making the abilities with said trait have a Level limit depending on the caster vs target level.
what the effect actually does depends on the actual ability.
so, sleep is incapacitation effect that Sleeps the target.
charm is an incapacitation effect that charms the target.
atunning fist is an incapacitation effect that stuns the target
and etc.
in the same vein, Fascinating Performance is an incapacitation effect that Fascinates the target.
The big difference is that Fascinate is all but irrelevant in combat due to how it works.
The Trait, by itself, doesnt give any extra conditions to the target.
Being a Fascinate effect with Incapacitation Trait is an extra negative, not something positive, it means that you still only Fascinate, but you only Fascinate targets bellow your level.
Incapacitation-
"An ability with this trait can take a character completely out of the fight or even kill them, and it’s harder to use on a more powerful character.
The very first sentence in Incapacitation states, without much difficulty in understanding, that the ability can take a person out of the fight... or kill them" The rest of the description is how that happens, and how difficult it is to affect higher level people.
Now if that is not how it is supposed to read, Pazio can make an errata for it. But reading it just in context of the three rules, absolutely, by not reading anything else into them, that: Incapacitation as a Trait can take out opponents. Fascinating Performance gives that Trait to the Perform action, while in something like combat. Focused Fascination lets you use it easier, against one target, while in combat.
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Shain Edge wrote: Incapacitation-
"An ability with this trait can take a character completely out of the fight or even kill them, and it’s harder to use on a more powerful character.
The very first sentence in Incapacitation states, without much difficulty in understanding, that the ability can take a person out of the fight... or kill them" The rest of the description is how that happens, and how difficult it is to affect higher level people.
yes:
it can take someone out of the picture depending on said incapacitation ability.
Sleep does it by sleeping targets, Charm by charming them, Uncontrollable dance by making them waste their actions dancing, and etc.
every single "save or die/be disabled" ability is an incapacitation effect.
incapacitation trait is the limiter of said abilities.
again:
Fascinating performance:
The condition that "incapacitates" the target is Fascinate. There's no "incapacitate" condition.
Fascinate is a fine condition for a social encouter, but in a combat encounter not so much.
shroudb wrote:
yes:
it can take someone out of the picture depending on said incapacitation ability.
Sleep does it by sleeping targets, Charm by charming them, Uncontrollable dance by making them waste their actions dancing, and etc.
every single "save or die/be disabled" ability is an incapacitation effect.
incapacitation trait is the limiter of said abilities.
again:
Fascinating performance:
The condition that "incapacitates" the target is Fascinate. There's no "incapacitate" condition.
Fascinate is a fine condition for a social encouter, but in a combat encounter not so much.
The very name of the trait doesn't sound like a limiter. The very first sentence of that the Trait does, is incapacitate the target.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/incapacitate
1. to deprive of ability, qualification, or strength; make incapable or unfit; disable.
Why would Pazio be using Incapacitation as a Trait name, and ignoring the meaning of the word? Except that they do indicate the meaning of incapacitate in the very first sentence.
MAYBE you can incapacitate for one round, which is the duration of the fascinate effect (having your jaw dropping and just staring). I was searching for the duration of incapacitation, with no results.
To my reading, Incapacitation, by itself is not a modifier based on level, but an actual result (of incapacitation) of being a target of what the trait affects. Within the Incapacitate trait, there is a modifier, of the difficulty of affecting targets higher level.
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Shain Edge wrote: shroudb wrote:
yes:
it can take someone out of the picture depending on said incapacitation ability.
Sleep does it by sleeping targets, Charm by charming them, Uncontrollable dance by making them waste their actions dancing, and etc.
every single "save or die/be disabled" ability is an incapacitation effect.
incapacitation trait is the limiter of said abilities.
again:
Fascinating performance:
The condition that "incapacitates" the target is Fascinate. There's no "incapacitate" condition.
Fascinate is a fine condition for a social encouter, but in a combat encounter not so much.
The very name of the trait doesn't sound like a limiter. The very first sentence of that the Trait does, is incapacitate the target.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/incapacitate
1. to deprive of ability, qualification, or strength; make incapable or unfit; disable.
Why would Pazio be using Incapacitation as a Trait name, and ignoring the meaning of the word? Except that they do indicate the meaning of incapacitate in the very first sentence.
MAYBE you can incapacitate for one round, which is the duration of the fascinate effect (having your jaw dropping and just staring). I was searching for the duration of incapacitation, with no results.
To my reading, Incapacitation, by itself is not a modifier based on level, but an actual result (of incapacitation) of being a target of what the trait affects. Within the Incapacitate trait, there is a modifier, of the difficulty of affecting targets higher level. lol, dont try to dictionary your way. There are specific rules in the game that don't depend on naming sense, as the easiest example look at "volley" trait on bows having nothing to do with volley and being a negative.
The incapacitation Trait lists specifically waht it does:
It goes into an ability that will take someone out of an encounter and modifies his saving throw based on his level.
That's all it does.
Fascinating performance will indeed take someone out of a social encounter. It's almost useless in combat, but that doesn't matter.
Now, "how" exactly each Incapacitation ability limits the target, that actually depends on the ability. Again, sleep will slepp, charm will charm, uncontrollable dance will dance, calm emotion will take them out of hostile actions, etcetcetc
In the same vein, "Fascinating performance" will Fascinate them. Which is an actual condition that you impose.
Actually, volley is to give an object arc upward, and over. Like Volley ball. The bows volley effect, as a negative, assumes the weapon is best employed at a longer range, with that arc.
So, yea, Volley can make sense in that effect.
So, it doesn't make ANY sense that Fascinating Performance gives the Incapacitation trait, only in a combat setting, unless the target(s) are going to be incapacitated. If ALL of the definitions surrounding it are NOT ACTUALLY about incapacitating the target, then why use it? It would be far better that they NEVER add Incapacitation Trait to Fascinating Performance, and instead just add a few sentences stating that it is harder to affect someone who is in combat?
Shain Edge wrote: Incapacitation-
"An ability with this trait can take a character completely out of the fight or even kill them, and it’s harder to use on a more powerful character.
The very first sentence in Incapacitation states, without much difficulty in understanding, that the ability can take a person out of the fight... or kill them" The rest of the description is how that happens, and how difficult it is to affect higher level people.
Now if that is not how it is supposed to read, Pazio can make an errata for it. But reading it just in context of the three rules, absolutely, by not reading anything else into them, that: Incapacitation as a Trait can take out opponents. Fascinating Performance gives that Trait to the Perform action, while in something like combat. Focused Fascination lets you use it easier, against one target, while in combat.
Just because an action with the Incapacitation trait can take someone out of the fight doesn't mean every action with the Incapacitation trait will. The wording here is simply a description of the kind of effect that Incapacitation limits, a justification for it.
If someone passes their save against sleep they are not removed from the fight just because they were targeted by an action with the Incapacitation trait, instead you follow what the action says it does. The same goes for Fascinating Performance.
There is no need for an errata here because nothing about the trait actually tells you to take someone out of a fight, and, to my knowledge, the only person who has misinterpreted it as such up until now is you.
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Shain Edge wrote: Actually, volley is to give an object arc upward, and over. Like Volley ball. The bows volley effect, as a negative, assumes the weapon is best employed at a longer range, with that arc.
So, yea, Volley can make sense in that effect.
So, it doesn't make ANY sense that Fascinating Performance gives the Incapacitation trait, only in a combat setting, unless the target(s) are going to be incapacitated. If ALL of the definitions surrounding it are NOT ACTUALLY about incapacitating the target, then why use it? It would be far better that they NEVER add Incapacitation Trait to Fascinating Performance, and instead just add a few sentences stating that it is harder to affect someone who is in combat?
that's not what volley means.
volley means either "discharge several projectiles/bullets/etc" at once, which was the arrow volley and make no sense in that regard, or for sports it means "strike before hitting the ground" that makes also no sense.
the arc thing is your own definition.
and again, there are more than Combat encounters in the game. Social encounters are a thing, and Fascianting the level 15 royal guards at level 1 and sneaking in and robbing the king blind, would be kinda too much.
Again, "Incapacitate" with a capital I, is a specific Trait that does a specific thing: Changes the Saving throw based on the Level of the target, nothing more, nothing less.
It's a trait found in abilities that debilitate or incapacitate (lower i) the target through various conditions.
The condition that Fascinating Performance inflicts is specifically Fascinate, nothing more, nothing less.
Shain Edge wrote: Incapacitation-
"An ability with this trait can take a character completely out of the fight or even kill them, and it’s harder to use on a more powerful character.
The very first sentence in Incapacitation states, without much difficulty in understanding, that the ability can take a person out of the fight... or kill them" The rest of the description is how that happens, and how difficult it is to affect higher level people.
Yes, that's a description of what kind of abilities have the trait. Now read the sentences that explain what it does in game terms--y'know, like you said. If the Incapacitate tag meant that everything else in the ability description was pointless, why do you think they all have descriptions?
Effects that can incapacitate have the Incapacitation trait, which has rules so that PCs can't one-shot more powerful villains and minor bad guys can't one-shot PCs.
Shain Edge wrote: So, it doesn't make ANY sense that Fascinating Performance gives the Incapacitation trait, only in a combat setting, unless the target(s) are going to be incapacitated. Perhaps not. Maybe it's because of its ability to target many creatures.
Shain Edge wrote: It would be far better that they NEVER add Incapacitation Trait to Fascinating Performance, and instead just add a few sentences stating that it is harder to affect someone who is in combat? The entire point of traits with game effects is that they don't have to write out the same thing repeatedly. The book is already huge.
shroudb wrote: Social encounters are a thing, and Fascinating the level 15 royal guards at level 1 and sneaking in and robbing the king blind, would be kinda too much. Fascinating Performance only gains the Incapacitate trait "in a situation that demands immediate attention, such as combat..." But a level 1 character isn't likely to Fascinate level 15 guards anyway--the DC's too high. And even if they did, Fascinated isn't going to be much help in sneaking past.
Sorry for necro posting, but i recently encountered this problem in my group. Our bard did not know how to play his character, So I suggested maybe attempting to demoralize his foes. then we got into thinking about Fascinating Performance, the Perform action, and Versatile Performance... so here are my thoughts on it.
1. before for we even get to fascinating perfromance we have to look at the perform action. the perform action states it normally has no effect on it's own. Obviously, fascinating performance does actually give this action an effect. But this action also give the GM discretion as well.
2. Fascinating performance is worded horribly. it said "whenever you perform." What it should say is whenever you take the perform action. however, as it is written a player can easily get confused, (this happened to my bard) and think that it means that any time he makes a performance check. If this was the case, Versatile Performance would be insane, because every time you demoralize a single target, use group coercion, make an impression, or any other feat that versatile performance allows you to roll performance for instead of intimidation, you would be getting a free Fascinating performance. Now, i actually like this idea, making a purely social character who can actually effect combat just by being a social butterfly a viable character, but i do not believe that that was intended. but strictly speaking, because Fascinating Perfromance does not say "whenever you use the perform action" a GM could interpret it to be any time you roll performance.
3. Interpreting as a GM. I personally allow my players to use Fascinating Performance when they use the perform action. However i also, if they have versatile performance, allow them to use the perform action instead of the stated actions. They still have to critically succeed, and because most of these effects make people immune for 10 minutes afterwards, regardless of the effect it's okay. I allow players to use the perform action to attempt to get a specific effect, but I limit it based on the Mastery levels listed along with the perform action.
Pyrofool wrote: Sorry for necro posting, but i recently encountered this problem in my group. Our bard did not know how to play his character, So I suggested maybe attempting to demoralize his foes. then we got into thinking about Fascinating Performance, the Perform action, and Versatile Performance... so here are my thoughts on it.
1. before for we even get to fascinating perfromance we have to look at the perform action. the perform action states it normally has no effect on it's own. Obviously, fascinating performance does actually give this action an effect. But this action also give the GM discretion as well.
2. Fascinating performance is worded horribly. it said "whenever you perform." What it should say is whenever you take the perform action. however, as it is written a player can easily get confused, (this happened to my bard) and think that it means that any time he makes a performance check. If this was the case, Versatile Performance would be insane, because every time you demoralize a single target, use group coercion, make an impression, or any other feat that versatile performance allows you to roll performance for instead of intimidation, you would be getting a free Fascinating performance. Now, i actually like this idea, making a purely social character who can actually effect combat just by being a social butterfly a viable character, but i do not believe that that was intended. but strictly speaking, because Fascinating Perfromance does not say "whenever you use the perform action" a GM could interpret it to be any time you roll performance.
3. Interpreting as a GM. I personally allow my players to use Fascinating Performance when they use the perform action. However i also, if they have versatile performance, allow them to use the perform action instead of the stated actions. They still have to critically succeed, and because most of these effects make people immune for 10 minutes afterwards, regardless of the effect it's okay. I allow players to use the perform action to attempt to get a...
Game terms and mechanics are capitalised in the book to separate them from casual language.
So, "when you Perform" is different than "when you perform".
The 1st one talks about the game term Perform, which is a very specific action, and the 2nd one talks about when you do a performance as a looser term like the one your player understood.
Fascinating Performance specifically works when you Perform, not when you perform.
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