Can you swap the position of two targets with collective transposition?
The spells states that their positions must be unoccupied, but if I'm switching them, that means their positions are vacated at the same time and therefore unoccupied when it matters, right?
I'm imagining a scenario such as when a bad guy has pushed an ally off a cliff and they're dangling by their finger tips or some such; how cool would it be to turn the tables on said bad guy just as my ally's turn comes around?
The spells states that their positions must be unoccupied, but if I'm switching them, that means their positions are vacated at the same time and therefore unoccupied when it matters, right?
I'd allow it.
GMs may vary.
For me, as long as when the spell resolves all transposed characters end up in a space occupied only by themselves, then it is fine. Requirements to teleport to an unoccupied location met.
I was really ready to come in and say no, because when I read the spell my first thought is "no the space isn't unoccupied".
I can kind of see it if you imagine at least one target being whisked away into a temporary non-space, or if we say the teleportation occurs simultaneously, but otherwise the space is occupied.
I still lean towards no, but I'd be opening to it being a yes potentially. But I'd need more convincing arguments.
That said, I would not allow the scenario your describe at all RD, as you cannot teleport people into hostile/non-supportive positions.
I don't know why I thought that to be the case. Probably because most teleportation is designed to be used on allies. But as far as I can see rereading the rules there's nothing to stop you from teleporting someone 30ft up into the air, or off a cliff, or whatever. Although I still wouldn't allow you to teleport them into hanging onto the cliff. But you could teleport them adjacent to the cliff where they would start to fall.
I'd allow it. At the moment of resolution, no one moved into a space occupied by anyone else. If you assume simultaneous movement, at no point is the space occupied by more things than fit there. I feel like this is trying to prevent shenanigans like "put 4 players in the same space."
This does create some edge cases: can you move a tiny creature into a space with a medium creature you aren't moving, since that space is occupied? That's legal movement in that a tiny creature is absolutely allowed to be in that space if they had moved normally, but the spell seems to disallow that.
I'm imagining a scenario such as when a bad guy has pushed an ally off a cliff and they're dangling by their finger tips or some such; how cool would it be to turn the tables on said bad guy just as my ally's turn comes around?
Unexpected Transposition is great for this. I had a player use it when they were being attacked by a creature that was riding a dinosaur. Suddenly the player was riding the dinosaur. Good times.
Unexpected Transposition is great for this. I had a player use it when they were being attacked by a creature that was riding a dinosaur. Suddenly the player was riding the dinosaur. Good times.
I'm not sure that's allowed either, as riders are considered to occupy the same squares as the mount.
I do think you could teleport the current rider off, and teleport an ally above the mount, who would fall and land on the mount. But they would need to spend some action to actually start riding the mount.
Of course, I can understand using rule of cool to say "it just works" since the difference is basically just 1 action. Depending on the size of the mount maybe sort of reflex save to stay on top of the creature.
Unexpected Transposition is great for this. I had a player use it when they were being attacked by a creature that was riding a dinosaur. Suddenly the player was riding the dinosaur. Good times.I'm not sure that's allowed either, as riders are considered to occupy the same squares as the mount.
I do think you could teleport the current rider off, and teleport an ally above the mount, who would fall and land on the mount. But they would need to spend some action to actually start riding the mount.
Of course, I can understand using rule of cool to say "it just works" since the difference is basically just 1 action. Depending on the size of the mount maybe sort of reflex save to stay on top of the creature.
I'd probably allow that in my games, provided the player's next action was the Mount action, to secure themselves to the creature appropriately. Just because you get dropped into the saddle doesn't mean you're the least bit secure or ready. Your feet probably aren't in the stirrups, your hands probably aren't holding the reigns, you're not belted in (for climbing mounts), etc.
Unexpected Transposition is great for this. I had a player use it when they were being attacked by a creature that was riding a dinosaur. Suddenly the player was riding the dinosaur. Good times.I'm not sure that's allowed either, as riders are considered to occupy the same squares as the mount.
Unexpected Transposition is a different spell so the situation is different since its just "you swap places" and doesn't care about the space being unoccupied. That said, it was the dinosaur attacking and not the rider (they swapped with the rider so the rider was being attacked by their own dinosaur).
Using Collective Transposition it probably wouldn't work in the same way my question about a tiny creature going into another creature's space wouldn't work. And if it did, you'd have to secure yourself, etc.
I do think you could teleport the current rider off, and teleport an ally above the mount, who would fall and land on the mount. But they would need to spend some action to actually start riding the mount.
Of course, I can understand using rule of cool to say "it just works" since the difference is basically just 1 action. Depending on the size of the mount maybe sort of reflex save to stay on top of the creature.
I'm less worried about having to get situated on the mount again, but they definitely had to command it to get it under control (otherwise it would try to buck them off since they're unfamiliar). So actions were being spent just with a different explanation.
This does create some edge cases: can you move a tiny creature into a space with a medium creature you aren't moving, since that space is occupied? That's legal movement in that a tiny creature is absolutely allowed to be in that space if they had moved normally, but the spell seems to disallow that.
You can't transpose that person to that location. That location has a gnat in it already, so it isn't unoccupied.
As a rules question, no. The unoccupied restriction prevents a whole chain of transposition swaps from failing if one enemy makes their save.
As a practical choice for running it, I'd absolutely allow it, but it means that any moves relying on a space being vacated by an enemy will fail if the spot isn't vacated, with potential to cascade. Transposing to adjacent spaces is more reliable.
Unexpected Transposition is great for this. I had a player use it when they were being attacked by a creature that was riding a dinosaur. Suddenly the player was riding the dinosaur. Good times.I'm not sure that's allowed either, as riders are considered to occupy the same squares as the mount.Unexpected Transposition is a different spell so the situation is different since its just "you swap places" and doesn't care about the space being unoccupied. That said, it was the dinosaur attacking and not the rider (they swapped with the rider so the rider was being attacked by their own dinosaur).
Using Collective Transposition it probably wouldn't work in the same way my question about a tiny creature going into another creature's space wouldn't work. And if it did, you'd have to secure yourself, etc.
I'm less worried about having to get situated on the mount again, but they definitely had to command it to get it under control (otherwise it would try to buck them off since they're unfamiliar). So actions were being spent just with a different explanation.I do think you could teleport the current rider off, and teleport an ally above the mount, who would fall and land on the mount. But they would need to spend some action to actually start riding the mount.
Of course, I can understand using rule of cool to say "it just works" since the difference is basically just 1 action. Depending on the size of the mount maybe sort of reflex save to stay on top of the creature.
My bad, I totally missed you were referring to a different spell and still thought we were talking about the original. My bad.