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Obviously, you throw the bow at the enemy to deal damage.
But in all seriousness, yeah it's probably just a mix up and should say 0. Zero and - are not equal, but could easily be confused when writing.
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Throw to Reload. ;)
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Is it just me or does it seem a little weak?
Compared to the comp longbow, it loses all of its traits and 20 feet of range. Compared to the shortbow, it loses all of its traits for +1 damage and 20 feet more range.
The range probably doesn't matter a lot, but a Fighter with Point Blank is effectively trading Propulsive and Deadly for a flat +2 damage by switching from a composite longbow to a daikyu. Or those two traits for +1 damage per die by trading in a shortbow.
That seems very sidegrade-y at best. Except the Daikyu is an advanced weapon and those are supposed to have a bigger overall trait budget. Fighters get reduced proficiency with advanced weapons theoretically because of this.
So our Fighter who trades their Composite Longbow for a Daikyu effectively loses propulsive, deadly and 20 feet of range in exchange for having a -2 to all of their attacks instead of just a -2 within the first 30 feet (with no way to mitigate it like longbow users can with PBS).
Honestly, I'm confused why the daikyu doesn't have propulsive or volley.
Daikyu bows were designed to be asymmetrical for use from horseback. They're larger than longbows and would in theory be just as unwieldy up close.
It honestly feels like the probably made the longbow too good, and realized they didn't want to make a superior bow, but the daikyu should be superior if they're going to make it an advanaced weapon. Losing the propulsive trait isn't fair for also losing volley, and from a mechanical perspective they should both really have the trait due to their size.
The Daikyu just seems...unfinished. I thought for sure it would have a Composite version, and be a Monk weapon - given Monastic Archery calls out Monk bows...but there aren't any. I doesn't have any normal traits either, not even Deadly.
Yeah, I have a hard time believing the Daikyu as-printed was intended. Perhaps something got lost during layout? As written, it's not even good for using on horseback, since nothing stops you from using a composite longbow or shortbow while mounted.
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Maybe... just maybe, it's supposed to communicate that the bow "Throws" the projectiles and you should benefit from your Strength Modifier by default?
If that were the case it would be both an incredibly obtuse way to print it and actually useful.
Thinking on the bow more now, is it the first item to care about "facing"? This is the first time I've seen anything in either edition have a Left or Right.
Maybe... just maybe, it's supposed to communicate that the bow "Throws" the projectiles and you should benefit from your Strength Modifier by default?If that were the case it would be both an incredibly obtuse way to print it and actually useful.
Thinking on the bow more now, is it the first item to care about "facing"? This is the first time I've seen anything in either edition have a Left or Right.
The game doesn't even have a mechanic for determining which way you're "facing", it just assumes you can turn whichever way you need to in your space. I'm not sure how you're supposed to run the Daikyu's restriction. Or maybe it's just fluff?
The Daikyu just seems...unfinished. I thought for sure it would have a Composite version, and be a Monk weapon - given Monastic Archery calls out Monk bows...but there aren't any. I doesn't have any normal traits either, not even Deadly.
I think the Monastic Archery thing is just future proofing like how hobgoblins get access to hobgoblin weapons of which there are none currently.
Although the Daikyu being a Monk weapon would make a little sense.
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It would be nice to have word of the developer because as it stands now the Daikyu is an exceptionally underwhelming weapon
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Maybe... just maybe, it's supposed to communicate that the bow "Throws" the projectiles and you should benefit from your Strength Modifier by default?If that were the case it would be both an incredibly obtuse way to print it and actually useful.
Thinking on the bow more now, is it the first item to care about "facing"? This is the first time I've seen anything in either edition have a Left or Right.
It's actually a super dumb restriction because the Daikyu was designed to be use mounted originally and has asymmetrical upper and lower limbs to make it easier to pass the bow from the left to right side while mounted.
The whole thing is just a terrible weapon entry that's a waste of space it's written on.
As it sits it's much more cumbersome than a composite longbow, with it's only benefit being that it loses the volley trait but that's a pretty narrow benefit. Especially when considering the fighter is likely the only one to pick it up specifically, but because they have higher proficiency with martial weapons than advanced weapons the fighter would have the same attack bonus within 30 ft with a longbow vs daikyu, and a higher attack bonus beyond.
Okay how about this for the Daikyu (consider it my homebrew)
damage, range etc remain unchanged
Traits:
Deadly d10 (this seems to be standard for bows)
Agile (Bows of these kind create less vibrations after the arrow is loosened so it should be easier to aim the next one)
Monk (because we all know the picture of monks with those bows)
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Giving an advanced bow the monk trait just seems cruel. Since the monk archery suite just gives (and advances) proficiency in simple and martial bows with the monk trait.
So a monk would have to spend two feats to get proficiency in the advanced weapon, and then it would stay at trained forever.
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Giving an advanced bow the monk trait just seems cruel. Since the monk archery suite just gives (and advances) proficiency in simple and martial bows with the monk trait.
So a monk would have to spend two feats to get proficiency in the advanced weapon, and then it would stay at trained forever.
Cries in sad monk noises
TBH, I really want a monk martial bow with a d8 and no volley penalty. Since the monastic archer is conflicted about "how often can I stay in the annular region between 20' away and 50' away"?
Heck, I'd go for a monk bow that was d8, deadly d10, range 50'. You'd have to stay even closer than the shortbow in order to flurry but "staying close" is less of an issue (just "be anywhere other than adjacent" works) than staying far away (the longbow monastic archer is going to have issues in small rooms).
Daikyu has a niche, mainly for low Str archers (w/ minimal armor since it's Bulk 2).
It's just not enough to warrant being "Advanced" especially with PF2's stat bumps and how Advanced cuts it off from Monk use.
My guess is that since it's as good as a shortbow in the hands of a 14 Str PC, the Advanced status is to make up for being able to ignore a stat?
And as Striking Runes get added, it does get better than the shortbow.
Arguably comparable the longbow if you have Point Blank Shot to get the +2 (which would be equivalent to an 18 Str w/ longbow, freeing up a lot of stats).
Okay, now I've talked myself into seeing why it's Advanced. :)
Not sure how that balances with the difficulty of acquiring it though!
Hmm.
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Okay, now I've talked myself into seeing why it's Advanced. :)
I don't think it really holds water.
If you look at other advanced weapons, they generally get one extra trait or bump over a comparable martial weapon. Trading away two traits for more base damage is more like a sidegrade. Those numbers might make sense on another martial weapon, but that doesn't really seem like a compelling argument for advanced.
You'd expect an advanced shortbow to be a shortbow + an additional trait.
I'm inclined to think that the printed version is unfinished, since it has no traits other than rarity. The only other weapons with no traits are crossbows.
Like, why wouldn't an advanced bow have the deadly d10 the other bows have?
I'd forgotten that Deadly had been removed. Doh.
That rebalances the damage so it's nothing special (unless one expects not to crit much, which means they probably shouldn't invest in this anyway.)
So even a low-Str PC shouldn't bother hunting down a route to proficiency.
Maybe if it were Ancestral, but then again the list of competing feats improves with every release.
Bump for the same reason as above. I'm really looking forward to an errata giving the Daikyu its appropriate traits (and hopefully one of them being Monk).
It's not meant to be thrown like a boomerang? :P
Bump for the same reason as above. I'm really looking forward to an errata giving the Daikyu its appropriate traits (and hopefully one of them being Monk).
Given the requirments of the Monastic Archer Stance Feat, I am defiently of the opinion that the Daikyu was meant to have the Monk trait, seeing how the feat states "You are unarmed and wielding a...(insert irrelevant text here)...bow with the monk trait." As it stands, that would be a net 0 number of bows with the monk trait, unless you assume the Daikyu was meant to be said bow.
Also, I'd like to take issue with the name. Daikyu implies the existance of the Hankyu as well. So unless they intend to also add the latter, I'd say Yumi would be a better name here. Just throwing the idea out in case a dev does peek in here.
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Bump for the same reason as above. I'm really looking forward to an errata giving the Daikyu its appropriate traits (and hopefully one of them being Monk).Given the requirments of the Monastic Archer Stance Feat, I am defiently of the opinion that the Daikyu was meant to have the Monk trait, seeing how the feat states "You are unarmed and wielding a...(insert irrelevant text here)...bow with the monk trait." As it stands, that would be a net 0 number of bows with the monk trait, unless you assume the Daikyu was meant to be said bow.
Also, I'd like to take issue with the name. Daikyu implies the existance of the Hankyu as well. So unless they intend to also add the latter, I'd say Yumi would be a better name here. Just throwing the idea out in case a dev does peek in here.
even if the Daikyu had the Bow trait it wouldn't work well with monastic archer stance.
Monastic Weaponry doesn't work like Weapon Familiarity feats lowering advanced to martial proficiency scaling. You'd still need to get the scaling in some other way.
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I expect that now that the first LO errata dropped in a big dump that we can probably expect to see further releases probably also follow this pattern.
Given the assumption that they're being done in batches, and those batches so far SEEM to be grouped by "product line" what I expect is another FAQ update and a wave of errata sometime near the end of the summer or perhaps into this fall that covers CRB, APG, GMG and Bestiary books. As part of this, I am hopeful that this weapon can be reworked since it's currently just a hot mess.
The Daikyu is a weapon with massive range that can be fired from horse back. I agree that it needs to have its reload fixed to 0, and maybe it is given one more trait in the process, but in world, for armies, the weapon has a very useful niche. It just happens to utilize strengths PCs are not often able to utilize them selves because battle maps are not scaled to handle mobile archers very well.
More bows would be really cool to see, but I don’t think we’ll see much better mechanics on a mounted long range bow