New Errata?


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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I recall hearing in a Q&A panel at one point that there will be a new errata sometime soon, but haven't really seen any new information about it since then. I was wondering if there has been any mention by paizo about a specific time or even that it is still happening?


They mentioned in a not-a-promise way that they'd like to get it out by the 30th of this month.


I remember reading that back in early March too :(


QuidEst wrote:
They mentioned in a not-a-promise way that they'd like to get it out by the 30th of this month.

I remember reading that in December 2019.


Well I wish they would hurry up. I have a stack of rulings I'd like to retire becasue there are a fair number of loop holes, and just vague wording.


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https://paizo.com/pathfinder/faq

Has a change listened now to Battle Medicine. Did they stealth-drop the errata? Battle Medicine now needs Healers Tools and a free hand.


Cottoncaek wrote:

https://paizo.com/pathfinder/faq

Has a change listened now to Battle Medicine. Did they stealth-drop the errata? Battle Medicine now needs Healers Tools and a free hand.

Were do you see the hand requirement?

"...or wearing..." works perfectly fine with a bandolier.


Cottoncaek wrote:

https://paizo.com/pathfinder/faq

Has a change listened now to Battle Medicine. Did they stealth-drop the errata? Battle Medicine now needs Healers Tools and a free hand.

If they stealth dropped it there weren't many changes and I would be grumpy because there is a LOT not accounted for. :p

I expect this is just a random change someone slipped in.


Ubertron_X wrote:
Cottoncaek wrote:

https://paizo.com/pathfinder/faq

Has a change listened now to Battle Medicine. Did they stealth-drop the errata? Battle Medicine now needs Healers Tools and a free hand.

Were do you see the hand requirement?

"...or wearing..." works perfectly fine with a bandolier.

Yes, but previously it did not require it* nor a free hand. Now it requires you to have a kit and a free hand (or kit-in-hand) which is a pretty significant change.

*In the sense that it was not listed and by the way the book told us how to read things, that meant that it was not required in any way.


Yeah It looks like you need at least one hand to for the kit, possibly 2 if the kit isn't in a bandoleer but we don't know for sure.


Still don't get it were you all read the hand requirement from...


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Draco18s wrote:
Ubertron_X wrote:
Cottoncaek wrote:

https://paizo.com/pathfinder/faq

Has a change listened now to Battle Medicine. Did they stealth-drop the errata? Battle Medicine now needs Healers Tools and a free hand.

Were do you see the hand requirement?

"...or wearing..." works perfectly fine with a bandolier.

Yes, but previously it did not require it* nor a free hand. Now it requires you to have a kit and a free hand (or kit-in-hand) which is a pretty significant change.

*In the sense that it was not listed and by the way the book told us how to read things, that meant that it was not required in any way.

It says:

Quote:
Page 258: In Battle Medicine, change the Requirements entry to “You are holding or wearing healer's tools.” Change the second sentence of the effect to “Attempt a Medicine check with the same DC as for Treat Wounds, and restore a corresponding amount of Hit Points; this does not remove the wounded condition.”

That first part is a new edition and it seems weird that change got made without any announcement, but the fact that it includes "wearing healer's tools" really does nothing to resolve the number of hands issue. IF the intention is that the manipulate trait requires a free hand unless the ability specifies otherwise, that aspect of the rules still requires changing.


Draco18s wrote:
Ubertron_X wrote:
Cottoncaek wrote:

https://paizo.com/pathfinder/faq

Has a change listened now to Battle Medicine. Did they stealth-drop the errata? Battle Medicine now needs Healers Tools and a free hand.

Were do you see the hand requirement?

"...or wearing..." works perfectly fine with a bandolier.

Yes, but previously it did not require it* nor a free hand. Now it requires you to have a kit and a free hand (or kit-in-hand) which is a pretty significant change.

*In the sense that it was not listed and by the way the book told us how to read things, that meant that it was not required in any way.

In the APG I see a few places that note battle medcine needing to have the healing kit held or worn so presumably loaded into your bandolier is fine.


The point is, it didn't need the healers tools at all before. And by requiring the Healer's Tools, which actually require *two hands*, you inherit the hands requirement.

Liberty's Edge

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Old Woman wrote:
It's FAQs all the way down...


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Actually, the Bandolier doesn't reduce the number of hands, either, it simply:

"A bandolier can be dedicated to a full set of tools, such as healer’s tools, allowing you to draw the tools as part of the action that requires them."

Healers Tools require *two hands* to use. That means Battle Medicine now requires *two hands* to use.

Now, Alchemy Tools *also* require 2 hands, but the Quick Alchemy ability grants them an exception stating you only need one free hand.


Cottoncaek wrote:

Actually, the Bandolier doesn't reduce the number of hands, either, it simply:

"A bandolier can be dedicated to a full set of tools, such as healer’s tools, allowing you to draw the tools as part of the action that requires them."

Healers Tools require *two hands* to use. That means Battle Medicine now requires *two hands* to use.

Now, Alchemy Tools *also* require 2 hands, but the Quick Alchemy ability grants them an exception stating you only need one free hand.

Best answer, also. Gonna be a big change for some of my players. Springing this on them tomorrow lol.


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Well, they went for the worst possible version of Battle Medicine, which I kind of had a feeling was going to happen. Looks like it goes in the trash pile.


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How did people imagine battle medicine working without your hands free and a healer's kit?


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ikarinokami wrote:
How did people imagine battle medicine working without your hands free and a healer's kit?

For your reading pleasure.


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ikarinokami wrote:
How did people imagine battle medicine working without your hands free and a healer's kit?

Rules abstraction. There's literally four six hundred posts+ about it in other threads.


Cottoncaek wrote:

https://paizo.com/pathfinder/faq

Has a change listened now to Battle Medicine. Did they stealth-drop the errata? Battle Medicine now needs Healers Tools and a free hand.

This is just the small batch of errata that was published last year with the "Mutagenic Flashback". Nothing new or pertaining the current discussions.

The new errata we're talking about was a bigger one involving other aspects that required more effort and analysis. Some of us, me included, expects some changes to the alchemist to make it less janky, hopefully make it more fun and in line with other classes (Fighters and Rogues have amazing base chassis on top of cool and interesting feats, meanwhile the Alchemist has a weak chassis and lackluster feats on top of not being a spellcaster to compensate the lack of feats and proficiency).


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Wait, nothing in the new rule says anything about using the tools, you just have to be wearing them.

Can someone can explain otherwise? As far as I can see, nothing's changed, except you now have to buy a bandoleer and healer's tools?

Alternatively, battle medicine is now not very good (poor war priests with sword and shield).

Reasoning for why it still doesn't require free hands:

Manipulate requires a hand, but not a free hand.
Healers tools require 2 hands to use, but battle medicine doesn't say you use them, it even explicitly says you can just be wearing them.
A medicine check with the same DC as treat wounds is not a treat wounds check.

I think, play as you did before.


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ikarinokami wrote:
How did people imagine battle medicine working without your hands free and a healer's kit?

Preferably in a way that didn’t require potentially SIX ACTIONS TO USE A FEAT ONCE PER DAY ON SOMEONE.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

BUT WHAT IF YOU DON'T HAVE HANDS BUT TENTACLES OR JUST USE PSIONICS TO LEVITATE THINGS HUH HUH


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It only says you need to be holding OR wearing healer's tools. So it is still fuzzy about the amount of hands needed like Unicore said. It could be two because healers kit says 2 hand to hold, or one because you are wearing them not holding them and simply need a hand to draw/use them from bandolier as part of the action or still 0 hands as all it says is you need to be wearing them.


The bandolier doesn’t reduce the number of hands necessary to use a tool kit. Therefore, it takes two hands.

Verdant Wheel

ikarinokami wrote:
How did people imagine battle medicine working without your hands free and a healer's kit?

The short answer is that as Hit Points are an abstraction, reasonably, so too would be their Recovery.


Gorbacz wrote:
BUT WHAT IF YOU DON'T HAVE HANDS BUT TENTACLES OR JUST USE PSIONICS TO LEVITATE THINGS HUH HUH

I mean, what if you’re a sentient bag? How do you heal yourself with Battle Medicine now?


Lightning Raven wrote:
This is just the small batch of errata that was published last year with the "Mutagenic Flashback".

Is there a link to that as a separate list? Or was it just integrated in a way that you have to do a line-by-line comparison to find out what has changed?


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Nocte ex Mortis wrote:
The bandolier doesn’t reduce the number of hands necessary to use a tool kit. Therefore, it takes two hands.

yea if you are holding them, you need two hands. If you are wearing them you don't need 2 hands as you are wearing them on your person. It doesn't really clear up the hands thing, they need to be more specific.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
CrystalSeas wrote:
Lightning Raven wrote:
This is just the small batch of errata that was published last year with the "Mutagenic Flashback".
Is there a link to that as a separate list? Or was it just integrated in a way that you have to do a line-by-line comparison to find out what has changed?

As far as I can tell they are just integrated in. I never heard about this Errata at all.


Unicore wrote:
As far as I can tell they are just integrated in. I never heard about this Errata at all.

Me either, and I'm a pretty avid reader of rules stuff on this board.


It got snuck in in the last two days. I just checked the FAQ on Wednesday for my game, and there was nothing on it about this.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Maybe it is still a work in progress then. I can't imagine they'd have completed their errata and not blog posted about it.


Cottoncaek wrote:

Actually, the Bandolier doesn't reduce the number of hands, either, it simply:

"A bandolier can be dedicated to a full set of tools, such as healer’s tools, allowing you to draw the tools as part of the action that requires them."

Healers Tools require *two hands* to use. That means Battle Medicine now requires *two hands* to use.

Now, Alchemy Tools *also* require 2 hands, but the Quick Alchemy ability grants them an exception stating you only need one free hand.

This is completely incorrect. You do not need the Healer's Tools in hand to use Battle Medicine. If you did implicitly need it (which you don't), you would also need Alchemy Tools in hand for Quick Alchemy, despite what it says. Neither are true.

However, this doesn't resolve wherever it needs a free hand, unless it's resolved by lack of text regarding it.


Cyouni wrote:
Cottoncaek wrote:

Actually, the Bandolier doesn't reduce the number of hands, either, it simply:

"A bandolier can be dedicated to a full set of tools, such as healer’s tools, allowing you to draw the tools as part of the action that requires them."

Healers Tools require *two hands* to use. That means Battle Medicine now requires *two hands* to use.

Now, Alchemy Tools *also* require 2 hands, but the Quick Alchemy ability grants them an exception stating you only need one free hand.

This is completely incorrect. You do not need the Healer's Tools in hand to use Battle Medicine. If you did implicitly need it (which you don't), you would also need Alchemy Tools in hand for Quick Alchemy, despite what it says. Neither are true.

However, this doesn't resolve wherever it needs a free hand, unless it's resolved by lack of text regarding it.

Huh? that's a very odd way to interpret a set of rules.

Since battle medicine now requires that you have a healers kit or have access to it, it necessarily means that some amount of hands free are required and a healers kit is required.

it probably should be changed to say holding a healers kit or wearing a healer's kit with at least one hand free. Even though i think that is obvious when all the various rules are considered and applied.


Nocte ex Mortis wrote:
It got snuck in in the last two days. I just checked the FAQ on Wednesday for my game, and there was nothing on it about this.

It was released in a PDF. Now it was added to the website. If you used the Archive of Nethys or the Pathbuilder2e app, you wouldn't notice without previous knowledge.

It was the update 1.0 released 30/10/2019.

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sgzq?Core-Rulebook-Errata-Round-1


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Lightning Raven wrote:
Nocte ex Mortis wrote:
It got snuck in in the last two days. I just checked the FAQ on Wednesday for my game, and there was nothing on it about this.

It was released in a PDF. Now it was added to the website. If you used the Archive of Nethys or the Pathbuilder2e app, you wouldn't notice without previous knowledge.

It was the update 1.0 released 30/10/2019.

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sgzq?Core-Rulebook-Errata-Round-1

Linkified


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Cottoncaek wrote:

https://paizo.com/pathfinder/faq

Has a change listened now to Battle Medicine. Did they stealth-drop the errata? Battle Medicine now needs Healers Tools and a free hand.

Linkified


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Gisher wrote:
Lightning Raven wrote:
Nocte ex Mortis wrote:
It got snuck in in the last two days. I just checked the FAQ on Wednesday for my game, and there was nothing on it about this.

It was released in a PDF. Now it was added to the website. If you used the Archive of Nethys or the Pathbuilder2e app, you wouldn't notice without previous knowledge.

It was the update 1.0 released 30/10/2019.

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sgzq?Core-Rulebook-Errata-Round-1

Linkified

The change to Battle Medicine requiring Healers Tools was absolutely not in this document.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I believe it slipped into a site update ahead of the actual next errata, where it would be announced.


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Cottoncaek wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Lightning Raven wrote:
Nocte ex Mortis wrote:
It got snuck in in the last two days. I just checked the FAQ on Wednesday for my game, and there was nothing on it about this.

It was released in a PDF. Now it was added to the website. If you used the Archive of Nethys or the Pathbuilder2e app, you wouldn't notice without previous knowledge.

It was the update 1.0 released 30/10/2019.

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sgzq?Core-Rulebook-Errata-Round-1

Linkified
The change to Battle Medicine requiring Healers Tools was absolutely not in this document.

I did not claim that it was. I was merely making some relevant links clickable.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
NEW Battle Medicine Errata wrote:
In Battle Medicine, change the Requirements entry to “You are holding or wearing healer's tools.”

Thought I remembered that bit of errata being different. With the new requirements, I think that means it's time to break some unfortunate news to some healers.


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A note on the topic of whether or not battle medicine now requires hands free to implement the tools that are now required:

all the other uses of medicine which require healer's tools say "Requirement: you have healer's tools" - so either all of these, battle medicine included, require the same free hands or battle medicine is actually more restrictive because you must hold or wear the tools, not just have them (such as in a backpack).


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thenobledrake wrote:

A note on the topic of whether or not battle medicine now requires hands free to implement the tools that are now required:

all the other uses of medicine which require healer's tools say "Requirement: you have healer's tools" - so either all of these, battle medicine included, require the same free hands or battle medicine is actually more restrictive because you must hold or wear the tools, not just have them (such as in a backpack).

isn't that a good thing though? I don't know what paizo thinks about the free hand requirement thing or how manipulate works but battle medicine should be slightly harder to use than regular medicine. Like you said the only mention of tools for treat wounds is that you have to have them, the skill itself doesn't even say you use them. whether that is intended or not idk. Me personally for manipulate actions i just go with it doesn't require free hands unless it states you do need a free hand. otherwise some manipulate actions get very weird, such as release. Do you need to have two free hands to release a two handed weapon?


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Lightning Raven wrote:

It was released in a PDF. Now it was added to the website. If you used the Archive of Nethys or the Pathbuilder2e app, you wouldn't notice without previous knowledge.

It was the update 1.0 released 30/10/2019.

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sgzq?Core-Rulebook-Errata-Round-1

No, that change is NOT in that PDF. There IS an errata entry for Battle Medicine in that PDF, but it does not include the first sentence. Here it is in its entirety

PZO2101+Errata+1.0.pdf wrote:
Page 258: In Battle Medicine, change the second sentence to “Attempt a Medicine check with the same DC as for Treat Wounds, and restore a corresponding amount of Hit Points; this does not remove the wounded condition.”

This is what the FAQ page says now: (and apparently did not say on Wednesday)

Pathfinder FAQ wrote:
Page 258: In Battle Medicine, change the Requirements entry to “You are holding or wearing healer's tools.” Change the second sentence of the effect to “Attempt a Medicine check with the same DC as for Treat Wounds, and restore a corresponding amount of Hit Points; this does not remove the wounded condition.”

That's why those of us who are active on these boards are surprised: The FAQ page has errata that are

a) not included in the PDF for Round 1 Errata
and
b) have not been announced anywhere on these boards.

That means that you have to go line by line through a six-page document comparing each line to see if a few new words have been included.


Raveve wrote:
isn't that a good thing though?

I wasn't meaning to imply it wasn't - only pointing out that the logic folks were using earlier in the thread to say that the new text doesn't imply needing to manipulate the tools with your hands, just that they be there, applies to everything else too.

I was meaning for that to highlight that stating "you have to have tools" does imply actually using said tools with your hands.

As for why battle medicine says "holding or wearing" rather than just "have" I think the answer is clear: battle medicine isn't an exploration activity so the ease of access to your tools directly factors into the time it takes to complete the activity - you have to get the tools in hand, or have them worn in a bandolier which makes drawing them part of the action to use them, in order to spend the action to use Battle Medicine - contrasted with the other activities in which it's not a significant difference in resolution time whether you have the tools already in hand or have to get them out, even if they are stored someone in your backpack.

Personally, I think this is as simple as Strike not having a listed number of hands required to take the action - it's already assumed that how many hands a piece of equipment takes to use properly is covered by the details of that piece of equipment, making that the general rule which an activity would need to specifically contradict to create an exception to.

So battle medicine requires you to have the hands listed by healer's tools available to use them because it doesn't explicitly say that rule doesn't apply.


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Raveve wrote:
isn't that a good thing though?

Not really. If its supposed to be used in combat (cough BATTLE medicine) then the total action cost to stop what you're doing, meet the requirements, activate it, and reset, then it should be comparable in speed to other things you can do in combat.

If it takes 5 actual actions to setup, execute, and reset, then its not an in-combat option and the fact that it's listed as 1 action is misleading.

Liberty's Edge

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Uh...wearing Healer's Tools requires zero hands. So the Feat seems to require zero hands per current errata.

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