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D&D has had at least one book on the Underdark in every edition (except 5e, curiously enough) - if books like LO: Travel Guide and LO: Knights of Lastwall can get the greenlight, I don't see how a book on the ultimate dungeon crawl land couldn't get it, eventually.
The problem with the darklands is less that they're boring, and more that they're alien so players and GMs don't have a lot to attach to. As a result Darklands stories tend to become "we have to navigate this hostile and alien world full of factions that do not mean us well." It's hard to imagine telling a light-hearted or farcical or swashbuckling or exploration campaign there.
I can personally think of more campaigns I'd like to run in the honest to goodness Abyss (WotR was a blast) than I would in the Darklands. But full disclosure, I'm not really fond of dungeon crawls as a campaign framework, and I consider the Drow to be the least interesting elves, and elves to be the ancestry I like least. So it's probably just not for me.
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Nar-Voth certainly falls into the dungeon-crawl/underground wilderness theme more times than not; but Sekmina and Orv have a lot more going for them. Between all the different civilizations scattered throughout Sekmina, as well as the plethora of fantastical environments of Orv; I feel there is plenty opportunity to play every sort of campaign you could have on the surface, and then some.
But, I understand lack of interest. While nearly everyone here is clamoring for Arcadia, it is fairly low on my list of wants.
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If folks want to continue talk on a hypothetical Darklands book, I made a thread for exactly that a few days ago in the Lost Omens forum!
While nearly everyone here is clamoring for Arcadia, it is fairly low on my list of wants.
Any reason for the lack of interest, or do you just want other things more?
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Mostly just interested in other things more. That's not to say I'm not interested at all, mind you. Quite the contrary! I've even started researching potential real-world inspirations for character ideas.
I'm wholly expecting an Arcadia book much sooner than later, and I am quite ecstatic to see it! I'm particularly interested in Razatlan and the Razatlani Empire, as well as Xopatl.
But, I digress. The chance to play an Age of Serpents campaign with an uprising of Sekmin oppressed by their own empire, labelled as malcontents, is something I'd personally look forward to; with their ancestors beings the basis of PC friendly modern Serpentfolk.
Here's a thought: what would Sekmin Heritages look like? I'm a little gutted to realize Paizo probably wouldn't let one start with telepathy; it takes two Feats and waiting until level 9 for Automatons to get it, and even that is at a piddly 10ft range.
I'm wholly expecting an Arcadia book much sooner than later, and I am quite ecstatic to see it! I'm particularly interested in Razatlan and the Razatlani Empire, as well as Xopatl.
A Fallen Razatlan book is the single most exciting thing Paizo could make, IMO. There's nothing I want more.
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Most obvious take would be basing them on their caste and role in Serpentfolk society. They could also base them of various kinds of snakes. Imagine, a Rattler Sekmin, who uses their rattle as an instrument and has taken levels in Bard.
Otherwise, it is hard to say honestly.
Most obvious take would be basing them on their caste and role in Serpentfolk society. They could also base them of various kinds of snakes. Imagine, a Rattler Sekmin, who uses their rattle as an instrument and has taken levels in Bard.
Otherwise, it is hard to say honestly.
With the hooded cobra-style Nagaji art shown at PaizoCon, I think they're going to be the ones with that treatment. All the Sekmin we have art for in PF2 seem to have the same head shape.
I'm wondering if and how the Aapoph/Zyss split would be handled on the mechanical skeleton of a single Ancestry. I've got similar questions about how the Lashunta would come over in 2e, given their differently-statted two subtypes, as we don't currently have an Ancestry doing anything like that in this edition.
Now that serpentfolk is confirmed to become a playable ancestry, I really wish dero, troglodyte, and dragon to follow suit. The possibility is not that low, is it?
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The Nagaji art in Impossible Lands was interesting, given how different it is to the art shown in Bestiary 3. Same with the Vishakanya actually.
I assumed the Nagaji would have options based on the Naga themselves.
Now that serpentfolk is confirmed to become a playable ancestry, I really wish dero, troglodyte, and dragon to follow suit. The possibility is not that low, is it?
They aren't confirmed. But it has been stated that they are being looked at.
That said, the sky is the limit I feel. Both the Dero and Xulgath/Troglodyte seem like fairly reasonable options in the future.
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I remember reading up on xulgaths a while back and there was a section on the different types of xulgath and it just made me think "oh these are practically heritages already" but last I heard Paizo still wasn't thinking much about those either.
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Now that serpentfolk is confirmed to become a playable ancestry, I really wish dero, troglodyte, and dragon to follow suit. The possibility is not that low, is it?
Serpentfolk aren’t confirmed.
Playable Xulgath would be a nice balm to how feel-bad a lot of groups seemed to feel about parts of Extinction Curse.
We’ve already got all-but-official playable dragons in Battlezoo Ancestries: Dragons, if you haven’t yet seen it; a former Paizo designer made them, and they’ve been quite well received.
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I would think Xulgath's would be a shoe-in when we get around to doing darklands ancestries, along with Caligni and all of the darklands analogues of the surface people (Drow, Duergar, etc.) however they're doing that.
Lots of things should be playable, it's just a matter of "where do you fit them in". Gathlains are a certainty for a first world book, and an ocean book would get us Merfolk and Cecaelias and Locathahs and the like. But you're not going to put Gathlains, Merfolk, and Xulgath in a book about Numeria (but you might put Lashunta).
Now that serpentfolk is confirmed to become a playable ancestry, I really wish dero, troglodyte, and dragon to follow suit. The possibility is not that low, is it?Serpentfolk aren’t confirmed.
Playable Xulgath would be a nice balm to how feel-bad a lot of groups seemed to feel about parts of Extinction Curse.
We’ve already got all-but-official playable dragons in Battlezoo Ancestries: Dragons, if you haven’t yet seen it; a former Paizo designer made them, and they’ve been quite well received.
Don't forget the absolute best Ancestry to come from BattleZoo: Dungeons. Lol
No joke, I LOVE the Dungeon Ancestry. I need them to keep expanding it.
EDIT: Now I'm imagining a Merfolk flopping around in Numeria's badlands. Lol
EDIT: Now I'm imagining a Merfolk flopping around in Numeria's badlands. Lol
If we get an Iron Gods 2 and a Merfolk Ancestry, I absolutely want to play a Merfolk Monk who is terribly out of place. The first two levels are rough, but you can get +15' of speed at level 3, so you would be flopping pretty well.
EDIT: Now I'm imagining a Merfolk flopping around in Numeria's badlands. LolIf we get an Iron Gods 2 and a Merfolk Ancestry, I absolutely want to play a Merfolk Monk who is terribly out of place. The first two levels are rough, but you can get +15' of speed at level 3, so you would be flopping pretty well.
To be honest, I'd be highly surprised it Merfolk, in particular, didn't have a Heritage option that magically made them Ariel from the Little Mermaid.
Or if there weren't a Background that worked as a twin to Song of the Deep, but for aquatic Ancestries.
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Now that serpentfolk is confirmed to become a playable ancestry, I really wish dero, troglodyte, and dragon to follow suit. The possibility is not that low, is it?Serpentfolk aren’t confirmed.
Playable Xulgath would be a nice balm to how feel-bad a lot of groups seemed to feel about parts of Extinction Curse.
We’ve already got all-but-official playable dragons in Battlezoo Ancestries: Dragons, if you haven’t yet seen it; a former Paizo designer made them, and they’ve been quite well received.
Don't forget the absolute best Ancestry to come from BattleZoo: Dungeons. Lol
No joke, I LOVE the Dungeon Ancestry. I need them to keep expanding it.
Thankfully, Stephen and Mark announced at PaizoCon they are planning several new ancestries for 2023 with their Year of Ancestries, including a huge expansion on Dungeons.
I guess, keep an eye out for the Kickstarter in June/July.
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...
The Sekmin are the analogues to the Illithids, which Paizo doesn't have the license for but wanted something to fill the same niche as, and I'd be pretty iffy about playable Illithids.
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I would characterize Sekmin more as the analogies of the Yuan-ti.
Bless Mark and Stephen. <3
Functionally, I believe it has been stated they were meant to be a standing for Illithid as a major villainous people, since they couldn't use them. Socially, however, they are indeed very similar to Yuan-Ti.
I will say it again and always till it happens: Paizo, give me Mindflayer Expies in the form of cuttlefish headed aliens.
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I will say it again and always till it happens: Paizo, give me Mindflayer Expies in the form of cuttlefish headed aliens.
The Xill took on a shockingly Mindflayer-adjacent appearance in their 2E appearance. I'd love for them to be playable, 'though their two extra functional arms would be a mechanical nightmare.
I will say it again and always till it happens: Paizo, give me Mindflayer Expies in the form of cuttlefish headed aliens.The Xill took on a shockingly Mindflayer-adjacent appearance in their 2E appearance. I'd love for them to be playable, 'though their two extra functional arms would be a mechanical nightmare.
Eh. Still not convinced multiple arms would be that big an issue with the 3 actions economy. It would some Ancestries have the ability to wield 2 2-handed weapons; but that could easily be gated with a Feat. The Xill are incredibly interesting as a potential villain group. Although, I am open to basically anything as an Ancestry. So let them come. Lol
Playable Xulgath would be a nice balm to how feel-bad a lot of groups seemed to feel about parts of Extinction Curse.
What feel-bad? Please elaborate in a PM or spoiler tag. (I'm hosting EC and am curious to know what people are saying about it.)
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Playable Xulgath would be a nice balm to how feel-bad a lot of groups seemed to feel about parts of Extinction Curse.What feel-bad? Please elaborate in a PM or spoiler tag. (I'm hosting EC and am curious to know what people are saying about it.)
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** spoiler omitted **Playable Xulgath would be a nice balm to how feel-bad a lot of groups seemed to feel about parts of Extinction Curse.What feel-bad? Please elaborate in a PM or spoiler tag. (I'm hosting EC and am curious to know what people are saying about it.)
Thanks for the explanation.
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** spoiler omitted **Playable Xulgath would be a nice balm to how feel-bad a lot of groups seemed to feel about parts of Extinction Curse.What feel-bad? Please elaborate in a PM or spoiler tag. (I'm hosting EC and am curious to know what people are saying about it.)
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Do you mean a base Serpentfolk Ancestry and then a Serpentfolk Archetype? That's sort of how they handled the Dragon Ancestry, but their Ancestry Feats still felt pretty substantial by themselves.
In fact, I'd say the way Dragons were handled in BattleZoo is likely the best way to handle any powerful monster as an Ancestry option.
That said, I really don't feel like the few instances of Serpentfolk were seen have enough to merit an Archetype. I think most of the abilities we've seen can be handled by Heritages and Ancestry Feats just fine. Dragons had so many abilities that it made sense.
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PF2 has clearly shown that they will handle ancestries which would normally have abilities at low levels that are likely to cause problems by just not giving them those abilities at low levels.
Like a Strix PC is unable to fly at level 1, so a Serpentfolk PC at level 1 wouldn't have poison or more than a couple of innate spells.
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Serpentfolk aren't even nearly as bad as something like Strix anyways.
Like the baseline serpentfolk has... telepathy, scent, darkvision, venom. Zyss have some innate spells. The telepathy is the only really standout ability here and something that could easily be provided in a weak version early you can upgrade with feats.
Feels a lot more manageable than Strix or Dragons.
Serpentfolk aren't even nearly as bad as something like Strix anyways.
Like the baseline serpentfolk has... telepathy, scent, darkvision, venom. Zyss have some innate spells. The telepathy is the only really standout ability here and something that could easily be provided in a weak version early you can upgrade with feats.
Feels a lot more manageable than Strix or Dragons.
But strix don't have that many good abilities like serpentfolk. All they have is just a fly speed. So perhaps they are not that overpowered?
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Agreed. The biggest hurdle for them is lore. Even the Bone Prophet isn't much to write home about. The sum of the whole of Serpentfolk society I'd really what makes them something to be reckoned with. And even then, that society has been reduced to all but a fraction of its former self. So I doubt a single individual Serpentfolk, PC or not, is really much to be concerned about.
But yes, I think a base Serpentfolk with Darkvision and a Fangs attack is reasonable. Heck, if you wanted to be different, give them Poison resistance half their level at base, with a Feat to improve it later. Otherwise, poison resist, their venom, scent ability can be handled through Feats or Heritages. Heck, even the telepathy is hardly an issue. There is a Background and Automaton Feat that literally grant touch telepathy at 1st level. Don't see why it couldn't be handled similarly.
EDIT: Flight is generally a pretty big deal when used properly. But even then, there is a pretty big power difference between flight for a PC and monster. A monster is using their flight primarily for combat purposes. A PC has so much more utility to gain from flight. Has the potential to trivialize half of one's encounters, combat or otherwise.