Ladies and Gentlemen, if you are going to be a jerk and kill off your players’ family without consulting them first, make sure they don’t have Rich Parents.


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Cause if they do, they have a very legitimate reason to now be more than 5x wbl, if not significantly more so (depending on level they are when family died), due to 1: inheriting their family’s wealth, and 2: the fact that their family could afford things like life insurance and home insurance, since they are rich, thus increasing the player’s wealth even if you say the murderer stole everything.

PS: Not even sorry Mr. GM who ragequit that one time. Not. Even. Sorry.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

You do mean the player-character's family, right...?


Alzrius wrote:
You do mean the player-character's family, right...?

But of course.


Not really sure what pseudo-medieval/renaissance family is going to have something even remotely resembling life insurance (which going off a cursory wiki search originated in the 1700s) but whatever, you do you I spose.


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All the riches went to the "good kid", your younger sister... you know, the one that didn't run off with their hooligan friends to "adventure", or whatever you ungrateful miscreants called it at the time.

You. Get. Nothing.


Tarik Blackhands wrote:

Not really sure what pseudo-medieval/renaissance family is going to have something even remotely resembling life insurance (which going off a cursory wiki search originated in the 1700s) but whatever, you do you I spose.

An early form of life insurance dates to Ancient Rome; “burial clubs” covered the cost of members' funeral expenses and assisted survivors financially.


VoodistMonk wrote:

All the riches went to the "good kid", your younger sister... you know, the one that didn't run off with their hooligan friends to "adventure", or whatever you ungrateful miscreants called it at the time.

You. Get. Nothing.

Except I don’t have siblings in the games I play in. I can ward my parents with Protection Against GMs using Rich Parents, but no such thing exists for siblings as far as I know.


Reksew_Trebla wrote:

Cause if they do, they have a very legitimate reason to now be more than 5x wbl, if not significantly more so (depending on level they are when family died), due to 1: inheriting their family’s wealth, and 2: the fact that their family could afford things like life insurance and home insurance, since they are rich, thus increasing the player’s wealth even if you say the murderer stole everything.

PS: Not even sorry Mr. GM who ragequit that one time. Not. Even. Sorry.

12 Ways to Screw a Main Character of their Inheritance (with Plot Development)

1: Parents executed for Treason and Estate Seized by the Kingdom.
2: Parents died of Mysterious Causes and Estate Seized by Debtors. (Just because you got 900gp to start it doesn't mean your family hasn't taken out loans. Or that someone didn't fake up a believable debt)
3: Tarsque Ate Your Home Town. Now, go on your quest for revenge!
4: Parents joined a Death Cult, fortune embezzled, and later sacrificed.
5: Local Lord seized Estate for semi-legitimate reasons.
6: Reoccurring Villain Kills Parents, steals fortune. News at 11.
7: Parents Invested Fortune In A Lost Trade Fleet.
8: Entire Fortune Used in a failed attempt to Resurrect Parents.
9: Raiders Carried Off Entire Family and Fortune.
10: Parents died in Mysterious Circumstances, Entire Estate Seized to pay owed Taxes.
11: Parents Died of the Plague. Entire Estate Burned to the Ground to Prevent Spread.
12: Parents Died during massive festival they organized. Same cause killed hundreds of festival goers, family fortune used to make reparations.


Reksew_Trebla wrote:
VoodistMonk wrote:

All the riches went to the "good kid", your younger sister... you know, the one that didn't run off with their hooligan friends to "adventure", or whatever you ungrateful miscreants called it at the time.

You. Get. Nothing.

Except I don’t have siblings in the games I play in. I can ward my parents with Protection Against GMs using Rich Parents, but no such thing exists for siblings as far as I know.

That you knew of.

Great way to meet your older half brother though. You can meet up at his new house. You know the one, you grew up there.


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You have no idea how much of a pain in the ass I intend to make it for you to maintain that wealth.


Beware... there are many ways to ensure that your inheritance never reaches you...

1) you were written out of the will for one reason or another...
2) there is no record of a will (be it destroyed, stolen, or “misplaced”)...
3) the local lord has seized your families wealth and land, citing some “divine rite owed to him by his position”
4) you have been framed for their murder...
5) another has already come forth claiming to be you, or to have been sent by you, and received your inheritance in your stead.
6) not only did your parents get murdered, but the bandits who slew them have made your estate their new base...
7) the local government has been overthrown, your family was slain during the coup and their estate sieges by the new rulers of the land.
8) a failed coup was attempted and your family was slain during it, the ruler of the land has seized your estate claiming your family to have been involved in the coup.
9) while you were out adventuring, word reached your home claiming of your demise, shortly thereafter your family was slain. Since you, as their only heir, had already been declared dead, the estate and all of its assets has been returned to the state, and you are no longer able to lay claim to it.
10) your family had been murdered a good long while ago, but due to your adventuring, no one has been able to inform you until recently. Unfortunately as a result your estate and inheritance has been seized by the local lord claiming that since you had not deemed to appear sooner you have hence forfeited your claim.
11) your rightful claim to the estate has been challenged by someone claiming to be the bastard son of your father. What’s more, they have garnered support from another very influential noble family.
12) your uncle has claimed rite of succession on account if you bring an absentee heir.
13) your estate was destroyed along with the surrounding village/town/city and all valuables pillaged. There is nothing left to inherit and any form of insurance has gone with it.

And that’s just the tip of the iceberg... any creative DM can come up with hundreds of ways do deny you that inheritance you believe you’ll get if they kill off your rich parents.


14) The will states your inheritance goes into a trust to keep Suzy alive and well. Be nice to Suzy and scratch her behind the ears once in a while.
15) Liquidating the estate to pay everyone will take a few years, and you'll need to stay in town where you can be contacted easily - or your cousins lawyers will make sure all you get is the debts and not their corresponding properties.
16) This is a magical world. With major estates the law says that they can't be transferred to their heirs for a year and a day in case the original owners turn out to be merely misplaced and not as dead as they seemed to be.

etc.

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I like how nobody has addressed the jerk gms who kill of players' families :p

I mean thats main reason why majority of players play orphans, so gms can't do that :p so doing it to pcs with families just perpetuates the stereotype


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CorvusMask wrote:

I like how nobody has addressed the jerk gms who kill of players' families :p

I mean thats main reason why majority of players play orphans, so gms can't do that :p so doing it to pcs with families just perpetuates the stereotype

The real power fantasy is having a loving and dependable family unit that believes in you and is proud to see you off to be an adventurer.


If a GM does anything to a PC without consulting the player, yes they're a jerk. What I'm not understanding is... how does having Rich Parents and then having those parents killed off by the GM automatically entitle your character to anything?

The trait clearly states its benefit:

Rich Parents wrote:
Benefit: Your starting wealth increases to 900 gp.

So you start with 900 GP. Done. This isn't level-dependent, this doesn't say anything about further wealth or inheritance, and so on.

Now you can make the argument that the GM is offensive for monkeying with the character without your say so, 100%, but automatically demanding that this background change entitles the character to any more than the 900 GP falls outside the trait's stated benefit.

Now you can ASK if your character gets more, and there's lots of reasons why the GM might agree, but they don't HAVE to agree for any mechanical reason. This would be a story-based decision which, of course, falls entirely into the GM's purview to modify at will.

In other words, if your GM is willing to be a jerk to manipulate your character's backstory without your say so, do not be surprised if they continue their negative behavior if they pull a line out of Caddyshack and shout "YOU'LL GET NOTHING AND LIKE IT!" when you ask for an inheritance.

Now don't misunderstand me: I'm NOT saying it's ok for a GM to be intentionally mean to their players, nor am I saying you have to LIKE their negative behavior. The trait does what it does, nothing more; that's all I'm saying.


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I don't really understand the issue. Do many players introduce story elements and not want the GM to touch them?
I mean, the whole "kill your parents" bit is rather tired, but if a player doesn't want me interacting with their character in a specific way, I feel like they ought to tell me.

I'm not saying I'll go messing around in their stuff with zero warning; I had a player who really wanted their character to have a dog. I warned them that, in a life of giant-slaying and ghost-hunting, something like a dog may well prove to be a liability.
Sure enough, they had to make a run for it and couldn't get the dog up the ladder and had to leave him behind. The player broke down and wept. Really emotionally powerful moment. I asked them if they wanted to take a break, they said no.
So an NPC took advantage of the character's (player's) distraught and distracted state and suckered them into an otherworldly contract of sorts,etc.
--the player was fine with all of this. It made a good story. The pain and grief they felt were real, but they'd already acknowledged them as a possibility.

Does that make me a jerk? I dunno. I didn't ask them "hey, is it cool if I kill your dog?" but I did sort of vaguely point out that stuff like this could happen at session 0.

There should be some level of communication/narrative consent, but there should also be trust in the GM. Don't suckerpunch your players just 'cause you can. But if you think you've got something for a memorable story,I say go for it.


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I had a player once take the trait then ask if his parents could be dead.

I pointed out the trait clearly says they were alive. Both of them.

And they loved him very much. Sent him letters and cookies. There was no way in hell I was going to kill them off.


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I mean...if i were a mid level villain and the pc's were continually thwarting mine and my masters plans, why wouldn't i send them one of their beloved parent's heads?


See now me, I'd go a slightly different direction. The parents are the villains. Every one of the PCs' adventures would somehow serve to benefit the one PCs' rich parents. They'd both stay alive for the whole campaign. Then, on the last leg of the story the player would have to learn - Everything we ever did, all of it... it was for you Damien... it was ALL for YOU!

Then the PCs have to make a choice: murder one character's doting parents or accept their roles propping up the greatest evil in the campaign.

ALWAYS keep the PCs' family alive, if at all possible, no matter what traits they pick. The more ties to the game world the PCs have, the more rope to strangle... I mean, the closer to the setting.


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Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

See now me, I'd go a slightly different direction. The parents are the villains. Every one of the PCs' adventures would somehow serve to benefit the one PCs' rich parents. They'd both stay alive for the whole campaign. Then, on the last leg of the story the player would have to learn - Everything we ever did, all of it... it was for you Damien... it was ALL for YOU!

Then the PCs have to make a choice: murder one character's doting parents or accept their roles propping up the greatest evil in the campaign.

ALWAYS keep the PCs' family alive, if at all possible, no matter what traits they pick. The more ties to the game world the PCs have, the more rope to strangle... I mean, the closer to the setting.

I think the lesson we've all learned here is that there are a LOT of ways to make people regret using traits as some sort of magic armor for backstory elements.


The only thing I have learned in all this is that Reksew_Trebla had an unimaginative GM with equally unimaginative problem solving skills...

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