Is the only reason Sonic is rarely offered as an energy choice because it's not a standard resistance?


Homebrew and House Rules


You know how if an ability, spell, or other such effect offers a choice of energy type is nearly always "acid, cold, electricity, or fire"? Why no "sonic"? I think I remember someone saying in a conversation a long time ago the reason was because so few creatures have Sonic Resistance. But that's easy to change.

I don't anticipate this is a difficult question, I just want to make sure that people with better grasp of PF1 mechanics than I do haven't found some hidden reason why sonic should be rated higher than the rest of the energy types.


The resistance is part of it, but it’s also a thematic thing. Fire is the most common damage, because it’s the most thematically associated with damage. There are a few exceptions like a banshee wail, but sonic just isn’t very associated with damage.


I'm guessing people just forget about it or don't consider it an energy type like the four elemental types. There's also some thematic overlap between air (lightning) and sonic.


SilvercatMoonpaw wrote:
I think I remember someone saying in a conversation a long time ago the reason was because so few creatures have Sonic Resistance.

Maybe it was this quote from Ultimate Magic, section "Designing Spells":

Quote:
If you look at the spell list in the Core Rulebook, you’ll notice that there isn’t a 1st-level wizard spell that deals sonic damage. You may decide to design a spell to fill that niche, modeling it after burning hands, except dealing sonic damage instead of fire—perhaps you’d call it sonic screech. However, there’s a reason there aren’t as many sonic spells in the game: “sonic” as an energy type is a late addition to the rules, and very few monsters have any resistance to sonic damage because most monsters existed before “sonic” was defined as an energy type. Because there are fewer creatures with sonic resistance than creatures with fire resistance, sonic screech will almost always be a better spell than burning hands.

And they stuck with this. When Legacy of Dragons opened up exotic dragon types for your bloodlines, sonic was still unavailable (you could choose physical damage, though).


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Also sonic usually isn't included when creating "elemental" themed choices.


It’s also the same reason as to why most sources of sonic damage are one smaller damage die size than an equivalent source of any other energy damage... dice very few things are resistant to it, the damage is often reduced beforehand to make it far less deadly and keep it effectively on par with other sources of energy damage.


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I've heard similar arguments over the years. Sonic resistance is less common, so sonic damage is better.

I'm always willing to help a player build the character they want, so I'd most definitely allow something like that "sonic screech". The fact that it can't be used to start fires, calls far more attention to the caster and is negated by Silence has been enough to keep things fairly balanced.


Tho' a few years back ear-piercing scream, a 1st level sonic damage spell was introduced in Ultimate Magic so it didn't take the devs that long to create one. A quick search suggests there are ~20 spells which do sonic damage.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I think you could say that sonic resistance is rare because sonic is a rare energy choice.


Sonic is basically vibration damage, so you could probably set impact type resistance as Sonic resistance as well. At least until the whole rule set is revised it should work. Also very large structure might be immune to it completely as the area the sonic hits cannot cause it vibrate and generate the heat. Oops forgot about that vibration also induces heat so anything that cannot be effected by Heat might also be immune

Just some thoughts on it


I'm basically hearing a "Yes".


SilvercatMoonpaw wrote:
I'm basically hearing a "Yes".

I think it is more because this is all based off of medieval thinking were the four elements and the unknown was all just magic.

Sonic and sound as a weapon is actually a fairly new concept, in world terms. Yes I know Archimedes burned down a fleet with polished round shields is technically a laser but they still don't exist in the game... yet

So yes it was added as a after thought of 30+ years of the game basics being out. Give it another 30 and the defenses for it will be added.

It doesn't mean that the resistance to it is not already built in

DR/-- would work against it as would anything that protects from Heat and Impact. I will not go into the science part of sonic more than this because it really doesn't fit a fantasy game, like lasers and heat seeking missiles. Yes, once again I know a presented a case for lasers but how many shields did it to cause a fire?

-GAFY


avr wrote:
Tho' a few years back ear-piercing scream, a 1st level sonic damage spell was introduced in Ultimate Magic so it didn't take the devs that long to create one. A quick search suggests there are ~20 spells which do sonic damage.

That one specifically does roughly half the damage of other spells its level though


GotAFarmYet? wrote:
It doesn't mean that the resistance to it is not already built in

Or I could just build in the resistance.

That's really all I care about: whether or not making Sonic Resistance as common as the other 4 means I don't have to treat it special.

Dark Archive

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It's just rare, yes. It was a late add in D&D 3.X and Pathfinder picked up most of the same rules and many of the same monsters, so sonic was still rare for things to be resistant to. As more options were added to the game and monsters with resistance to sonic or other defenses against it were brought in, more sonic options slowly made their way in alongside them, but it's still much more rarely resisted.

If it appeared in monster resistances and defensive spells (it's not just a monster-side balance but also a player side) with roughly the same frequency as the other elements, it wouldn't need to be as rare as it is.


GotAFarmYet? wrote:
SilvercatMoonpaw wrote:
I'm basically hearing a "Yes".

I think it is more because this is all based off of medieval thinking were the four elements and the unknown was all just magic.

Sonic and sound as a weapon is actually a fairly new concept, in world terms. Yes I know Archimedes burned down a fleet with polished round shields is technically a laser but they still don't exist in the game... yet

So yes it was added as a after thought of 30+ years of the game basics being out. Give it another 30 and the defenses for it will be added.

It doesn't mean that the resistance to it is not already built in

DR/-- would work against it as would anything that protects from Heat and Impact. I will not go into the science part of sonic more than this because it really doesn't fit a fantasy game, like lasers and heat seeking missiles. Yes, once again I know a presented a case for lasers but how many shields did it take to cause a fire?

-GAFY

What about Numeria? ;)

At some point, our group is going to be doing an Iron Gods campaign... ;)

(How many shields? The ancient Egyptians used reflective metal to shine sunlight down into deep areas, like mines or the deepest tomb levels of pyramids, so either a) a lot of shields, perhaps, or b) one really big one...maybe ol' Archie got the idea from them?)

LB


Dreamscarred Press incorporated Sonic into almost every Energy spell as a legit damage type and even gave it some utility for being able to ignore hardness when targeting objects, but that doesn't really help PFS because they're 3pp.

Examples: Energy Ray, Energy Cone


with crazed Barbarians & Adv Hobgoblin technology (otherwise known as Numeria) a PC (aka party wizard) needs the Technologist Feat.
Sonic AFAIK isn't prevalent in that setting.
===
on reflecting sunlight as a weapon... it is highly impracticle. It is just a lot of light(Infra red to Ultra violet) in a small area in an attempt to exceed the flashpoint of the substance it shines on. Not a laser or death ray, just intense light. Good mirrors and clear transparent glass are difficult to make and grinding glass to produce optics came much later.


^ impractical


As noted above Sonic as an energy type (like Force) is rare in spells and rarer in monsters. Dice are lower than standard energy spells.
Sticking to any adopted standards has always been an issue with creative game designers nor has there been an overarching design plan beyond AP or supplements.
It is a Work of Art by many contributors.


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My homebrew Purple Dragon would do a lot to help that. Their sonic breath weapon does standard breath weapon damage, may cause deafness, and may shatter things. They of course are immune to sonic damage. Only problem is what are they vulnerable to, besides flattery. They are very vain, especially about their looks. They use the bard spell list. They are chaotic evil.


Another problem is cold being associated with air. Cold is negative heat. The overlap of air and water should be mists. Water and negative energy should be ice. The transitive planes, Astral, ether, and shadow span the entire elemental dimension from the separate elemental planes and sub planes to the blended planes. While an open-minded mystic could travel to any periodic elemental plane, most scholarly wizards are limited to the 4 official elemental planes. Oriental wizards are limited to 5 including wood and metal. Careless crafting of a tuning fork can land you in a plane you don't even believe in.

You could conceivably travel through the plane of sound, going to anywhere your voice reaches. It's like an alternat version of shadow walk except you jump between 2 identical sounding music boxes or through 2 communicators.

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